Has a Power Conditioner Improved Your Sound?

Lalitk, you are so correct. Getting foundational stuff correct makes everything in the system perform its best, but it is very unglamorous. It's like getting underwear and socks for your birthday instead of a new bike! I am learning that power, isolation, room accoustics, cables, tube rolling, very non-sexy stuff is transforming my system into a much more engaging and rewarding sound. Buying expensive large components is way more fun, but without integrating each component with the rest you don't get the full benefit of your investment. A couple of years ago I bought a used Vivaldi Stack. This was the most expensive investment I had made in this hobby. After I wired the money the broker suggested that the previous owner would sell me his Nordost loom for a super low price of 47K. I'm sure they would have sounded great, but I was out of my lane. I could afford to buy the component, but I didn't have the money to integrate it. I sold the stack and went with a much simpler approach that I could afford to optimize.

@jfrmusic

Perhaps you misunderstood my last post. It’s not about spending 4 to 5 times. It’s about finding the right component that offers no compromises given so much riding on it. In my experience, a passive power conditioner like iFi or Furutech would have yielded better performance with everything plugged into it. Check out the link for iFi with return privileges. If I were in your shoes, I would have ordered this combination to compare against 707. In my opinion, AQ707 is not the best choice for your system. I am using a $2800 PC that’s powering a system well north of $100K.

https://a.co/d/6nop3JQ

@thelonious527   When installed in my system it seem to roll off the top end. It took the ‘ sparkle ‘ out of the sound .

I wonder if that's not the same effect which I have been observing these last 20 years - every time I make a major upgrade, some 'sparkle' goes out of the top end. I've come to realize that this is high frequency distortion. This has lead me to value 'smoothness' over sparkle or other tinsel. YMMV

This may be what @ghdprentice is referring to.

By 'major upgrade' I mean air bearing turntable, air gap phono stage, etc.

I live in British Columbia, Canada and our electricity is generated entirely by hydroelectric dams. BC Hydro produces electricity that is 98% clean.

I also live in a large city, so we don't get power outages, power spikes, lightening strikes or brown outs.

Despite this, I still use power conditioners because I need 14 outlets and I've just always used a power conditioner.

Am I an idiot?

( That's a rhetorical question. )

@terry9

From your quote…”It took the ‘ sparkle ‘ out of the sound .”

Yes, it can be. I went through a period about thirty years ago when upgrading some modest components and adding / evaluating high quality interconnects and power conditioning that each step I took reduced the “treble”… sizzle… until I was freaked out that my whole system had gone over to the too warm side. I was confused since in most respects it sounded much better.

I started going out and listening to unamplified cymbals and pianos… and was shocked to find that what I had thought was great treble was in fact high frequency hash and distortion. Cymbles when struck sound like brass not tsssssss. I realized all those loud amplified concerts and cheap loud stereos in the 70’s had trained me to believe that is how music sounded. Surveying real music it was easy to stop craving the tsssss. I realized how beautiful undistorted instruments / music sounds. You know, once you hear you cannot unhear it. My systems then got better more quickly and my partner (a female) no longer minded listening to my system any more… since the high frequency hash and distortion hurt her ears.

Often after that I would go into a showroom and go running out with my hands over my ears. The piercing distortion is often completely missed by folks so focused on detail and slam they just don’t seem to hear it. 

I've got three dedicated lines coming into my audio room on a rock-solid power grid (we share the grid with the county's emergency services).  I thought power solutions never offered much improvement in my system (Fleetwood DeVille, Backert Labs Preamp, McGary amp, Merason DAC).  That is until I demoed the Puritan PSM1512 (12-outlet version of the PSM156).

I was stunned at the difference.  Everything was clearer and better delineated.  The pace seemed to pick up and the sound seemed more "alive".  The sound stage was wider and deeper.  Honestly, I was stunned.  

In my other system (Volti, AGD, Technics, HiFi Rose) I swapped the Puritan in for my IsoTek EVO3 Aquarius (both using a Transparent Premium PC), and again, the difference was pretty staggering (and really obvious).  I would attempt to demo a Puritan before you commit to anything else.  It's by far the best that I've ever heard in any of my systems over the years, (but, to be fair, I'm not auditioning $10K power line solutions).

The only thing a power conditioner might do is introduce noise. They do not improve sound. Put down the snake oil someone is trying to feed you. 

Proof? What do you offer other than empty assertion?

Plixir Power products are quite fantastic. There are the Linear DC Power Supplies and the AC power conditioners in the lineup. James Soh in Singapore has just revamped and improved almost all products that he produces. Plixir products are available in Canada and the US market from the Canadian Distributor.

Update

Sorry to say I returned the 707. After a week of concentrated listening I realized that what first appealed to me was actually an increase in midrange energy. It is a vivid presentation that in a way is more tube like. Everything is warmer, fuller and somewhat closer in perspective. This is a valid and euphonic sound. However in the end it's not a perspective that over time I found to my liking. It's most noticeable with Classical recordings. With the 707 I'm sitting in the first 5 rows. Without the 707 and plugged into the wall I'm siting in rows 10 to 15. I prefer that more set back perspective. You may like what the 707 does and it does do its job. The overall sound was slightly quieter but with the effect of a warmer midrange. Bass is slightly fuller and Strings more forward although still refined. So basically less air or atmosphere in the sound.

I'm not sure what I will do next. I've re-read a number of Power Conditioner reviews and it seems that the reviewers often mention that the lower treble can be more vivid or forward etc. So this may be a common trait of active conditioners. I haven't noticed this mentioned on the few passive conditioner reviews I've read. This included Shunyata and Furutech. In fact a review of one of the Shunyata PCs said the perspective was more distant. So maybe I will try one of those. But again I do not notice any apparent noise issues with my system but as I mentioned you don't notice it until it's removed.

Thank you for the update. Such is high end audio. It is really easy to like something at first only to realize something other aspect is amiss. I will admit that the 707 was a very budget oriented power conditioner. I looked at it and thought if the one I have in the bedroom with TV and good quality sound bar goes out I might get one,

I would look much farther up at Isotech or Shunyata. I’ve got a good quality 75 pound power conditioner I have had for over twenty years and each time I swap it out or compare it still is doing a great job.

@jfrmusic 

Interesting turn of events. I am sure you were able to discern these traits of the conditioner by carefully listening. 
 

Now, I am wondering if the 707 will be a good fit for my home theater. It’s going to be the power conditioner for the AV rack. These will be connected to it:

1. McIntosh 7 channel theater amp

2. McIntosh 4 channel theater amp

3. McIntosh 2 channel theater amp

4. Marantz AV10 AV PRE/pro

5. Oppo 205 Blu-ray 

6. Amazon TV

7. Apple TV

8. Luxul Media switch 

9. maybe: Kaleidoscape

@audioquest4life 

Tbe 707 will be fine for Home Theater. In fact its characteristics are more suitable to that application. A vivid, warmer up front presentation is excellent for movies. Remember it does provide surge protection, excessive voltage protection and lowers the noise floor. 

@jfrmusic 

Great feedback. Thank you. 

@ghdprentice 

Thanks but I don’t want a heavy  PC. And I’m not sure I want an active one. Both Shunyata and Furutech offer a smaller and lighter passive PC. So I may try one of those next. 

“I returned the 707”

@jfrmusic 

I may sound like a broken record, your high resolution system deserves a power conditioner that further lowers the AC noise without stripping away the dynamics and other virtues. Between Shunyata and Furutech, my money is on one of the passive Furutech power distributor, install it and get back to enjoying music. 

Over the past 40 years or so, some have and some haven't improved the sound quality.

The most obvious difference has always been in my recording and production studio vs my consumer stereo systems.

I'm currently using Puritan Audio products across the board with excellent results.

@lalitk 

Considering the Furtech

GTO-D2 or D3 as I only need 4 receptacles

or the

e-TP609 NCF which has 8 receptacles and very similar to the above except the enclosure. 
 

Do you have any experience with these?

@jfrmusic 

I sent you a PM about GTO. I have been using e-TP80 and e-TP60 with my other audio systems in the house for over 15 plus years. My main audio room has GTX-D (R) receptacles and pair of NCF Clear Line Filters. 

@lalitk 

Where do I find a PM?

@jfrmusic

Go to Audiogon sales website and click message icon next to 🔔 icon. 

For anyone who thinks the Denali V2 might veil the top end, I can assure you, in my three systems, the effect was exactly the opposite.  It made things sparkle.  And as to price of power conditioner to price of system, in my experience, the Denali makes MORE of a difference in less expensive systems.  I think super nice equipment does a better job of dealing with noise in the power line.  Just my thoughts, from my experience.

I tried a Running Springs Hayley 15 years ago and was shocked at the noise floor and separation of instruments. It was one of the best purchases I had ever made. Few years later bought the Running Springs Dmitri and have had it ever since. I wouldn’t be without it. I thought of trying new stuff but never have. Still have the Hayley in another system. The RS is passive and has no protection. 

No, but a dedicated power line from main panel with its own true earth ground and upgraded AC socket sure did! 

Best piece I ever added to my system to upgrade the SQ quite noticeably was the ANSUZ Mains 8. Took my system to a whole new level. Highly recommended!

@mbmi What do you use for surge protection with your Ansuz Mains 8?  Thanks

I have the iFi Power Station (actually I have two) that @lalitk mentioned earlier in the thread. My power amp is still plugged directly into the wall, but everything else runs through these. I have been very impressed. In my home, these obviously helped with some power noise issues and presented a much quieter background and helped to open up the entire soundstage quite a bit. They didn’t subtract from the sound at all. Of course power issues will vary considerably by environment, but I have really enjoyed these in my system.

Years ago all I used was a $120 APC and thought that this would clean up the sound but I was dead wrong. Bought a couple of Isoteks that were recommended by others and these were a wise choice for the buck. The Aquarius for my #1 system and the Polaris for my second system have made the light passages and overall sound pristine. Yes, they do make a difference in my opinion. There are more expensive line conditioners but Isotek is a good value .

I have used an Audience power conditioner for years. I have had the unit updated when updates were available, etc. I recently went through some equipment changes and ended up partially by-passing the conditioner. To my complete surprise I now prefer bypassing the conditioner since I believe what I may have originally thought improved the sound may in fact have restricted it in some way. Since I don't want to go without surge protection I am now in the process of seeking to have a "whole house" surge protector installed. The funny/frustrating thing about this hobby is that one day we can interpret a change in the sound of our system as an improvement and by the next day we may change our mind and determine the opposite. That in part is what keeps this hobby good for the economy.

@pmiller115 

”The funny/frustrating thing about this hobby is that one day we can interpret a change in the sound of our system as an improvement and by the next day we may change our mind and determine the opposite”, you sure hit it on the nail head. Hearing things differently does not necessarily mean better. What matters the most is if that difference = a perceived benefit to sound for the individual. 

I had a PS Audio- MEH

Love my Core Power 1800 - their newest is quite reasonably priced

@jfrmusic 

Any further update on your experience with Power Conditioners? 

@lalitk

Since the weather is no longer stuck in the 90s my system has sound wonderful. Plus I believe all my new components are now settling in. So I decided to turn my focus to upgrading my XLR Interconnects and Speaker cables. Check my thread on my audition of DH Labs vs Shunyata. I love what the DH Labs have done to my system

Also trying the several Stack Audio products. I plan to report on a my experiences on a future thread. So for now I’ve put power conditioning on the back burner.

@jfrmusic 

Thank you for the update. I willl check out the cable thread and look forward to your findings on Stack Audio. Among other things, their isolation footers caught my attention. It’s ok to wait on PC but know this, clean power is fundamental to your audio system optimal performance. 

It's tough to say whether a power conditioner will make an impact in a different system, and if so how big that impact might be. Over the years I've lived in several homes and each one reacted differently to power conditioners - in some cases it made a drastic improvement, in other cases little or no difference.

Beyond that, I've even had different houses which reacted better to different types of power conditioning. One home did best with regenerated power (I used PurePower but PS Audio made conceptually similar models at the time), another liked the more straight forward filtering types (Audience, Puritan Labs), and my current home favors balanced power (Bryston, Furman, Equitech). 

Unfortunately that means the answer likely involves trying things for yourself and seeing what works in your home. 

@v-fi

In a way I’m not looking forward to evaluating power conditioners. After trying the PS Audio regenerator and AudioQuest 707 I know it takes time to try out the units and may depend on the quality of your power at the time of the test. I just can’t stand anything that takes air, atmosphere and openness out of the system via the filtering which is what my two previous test units did as well as move the soundstage forward. That’s a big no- no for me. I think I’ll probably try some of the Shunyata units as they always seem very popular with owners.