Good Speakers for Rock and Roll Under 15K

@gregjacob Wrote:

I have nice speakers for acoustics, jazz, vocals, etc. but are not great for rock and roll. 

What speakers do you presently use?

Mike

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned ProAc Response D48Rs....

Bryston middle t 112 DB

@stereo5 

I looked back at your recommendations and must disagree with your inclusion of Volti as not being appropriate. That could not be further from the truth.

So you want to Rock-n-Roll

I use a mac tube preamp and 2 mac 2100's bridged with JBL 4435's

If you’re still looking, there’s a pair of JBL 4315 on USAM for $6k. With the money you save you can fly to California to audition and pick up. These ROCK!!! and no horns. I’d buy them myself if I could. 

Good used pair of Radio Shack Optimus 1150 are the best!   Great for heavy metal stuff. 

I have two models of stereo speaker because of how they present themselves [differently] overall, but any genre of music sounds fine on both. Rock and roll is a cakewalk for both. I’d personally avoid speakers touted to be good for one kind of music or another. Haven’t seen a system using 845 tubes specifically for rock - seems unusual to me, but maybe it’s not?

I think you might have missed the mark. Truly good or excellent speakers will sound good with any type of music. This of course assumes that the system can provide the needed power, and finesse. Brands that can do this: Dynaudio, Magico, Wilson, Magnepan, Raidho, MBL.. 

@atmasphere 

“@gregjacob Its actually a myth that a speaker can be good for one genre of music (rock) and not another.”

I could not disagree more.. 

I think your best move on rock 'n roll speakers are pro grade band PA speakers.  They'll handle level.

I’ve heard lots of expensive horn speakers at high-end shows, yet for the money imo there’s still no competition for rock. Klipsch: Either the big "corner horn" (which don’t have to be in the corner anymore), or La Scala (which imo look better). LaScala has the same full-length midrange horn as the Klipschorn (which is a big improvement over the Heresy’s & Cornwalls smaller mid horn), but LaScala has less low-end extension.. and less sensitive than Klipschorns, I believe.

I had Heresy’s in college and my friend had the Cornwalls.. and they were both loud and clean enough to dj parties with (but more refined than a dj speaker). La Scala and Klipshorn were a step up from Cornwall and Heresy, and today’s versions in the Heritage series are much improved over those.

Ocean Way Audio also makes great speakers for R&B, pop, and rock, but the big ones are quite expensive and not easy to find. The designer is a grammy winning recording engineer.

I’ll agree with previous comments.. speakers aren’t generally designed to be genre specific (although some are voiced using traditional instruments as benchmarks.. such as Gershman Acoustics), but for rock what you want is transient response, sensitivity, and bass extension to at least 40-50hz. Also, the voice coils should have ability to withstand a lot of current/heat.

One more thing I'll say about Klipsch (Heritage series, at least) is that they smell nice. I've never had better smelling speakers. Something about the wood.

I would like to echo Golden Ears Triton 1R.  The built in amp for low notes is perfect for rock and the midrange and highs are still very sweet and natural   Like many good speakers, they will reflect quality of recording.  So bad shrill recordings will sound a bit harsh, but…. Anything recorded decent will sound amazing.   I use with integrated tube amp.  

If you want to rock out and have a crap load of $ left over. 

@roxy54,

I already gave my recommendations at the beginning of this thread.  

I'd second the Legacy Focus, take a look at the new Focus XD, a full range powered speaker with 750 watts of amplification in each speaker. They come in right at your price, around $15000. A friend just bought a pair (with the complete Home Theater surround and Marquis center) and loves them. I owned the original Focus in the mid 90's, they're the real deal-

Greg

@stereo5 

This is nonsense. Speakers are not 'voiced' using a certain form of music, not if there is a competent designer involved! They may prefer a certain genre, but that won't influence the design for the reasons I presented earlier.

Inefficient speakers struggle because the have thermal compression associated with the voice coil of the drivers involved.  It hurts them with any form of music so isn't rock specific.

There are specific measurements on speakers that can be tied to great sound for hard rock and metal genres, for example. I recall that this was all beaten to death in a different recent thread. If the designer doesn't ever listen to or care for such genres, his speakers wouldn't measure as such, i.e., would have been voiced differently., i.e., he would have pursued something else in the design space.

Find a pair of used JBL 4412 (not the 4412a) monitors. Many rock songs, especially those done on the West Coast, were monitored on the 4412s. So, they give you the experience the recording engineer had. The L100's are similar.

+1 for JBL 4367s, they are killer for rock n metal.

I would look for what you can try and return. 15K is a lot of money for speakers, you can get awesome speakers for 6K. If you look at used, you can pretty much consider speakers in the 30K range. 

such as 

http://speakerchoices.com/

@atmasphere Wrote:

Inefficient speakers struggle because the have thermal compression associated with the voice coil of the drivers involved. It hurts them with any form of music so isn’t rock specific.

True! Heat Dissipation and Power Compression in Loudspeakers. See article below:

Mike

It’s obvious that a few here have never really listened to Rock, otherwise they would not be recommending Vandersteen, Volti and other speakers that were voiced with Classical and Jazz.

@stereo5 

This is nonsense. Speakers are not 'voiced' using a certain form of music, not if there is a competent designer involved! They may prefer a certain genre, but that won't influence the design for the reasons I presented earlier.

Inefficient speakers struggle because the have thermal compression associated with the voice coil of the drivers involved.  It hurts them with any form of music so isn't rock specific.

@stereo5 

What would you recommend?

It’s obvious that a few here have never really listened to Rock, otherwise they would not be recommending Vandersteen, Volti and other speakers that were voiced with Classical and Jazz. I owned 2 pairs of Vandersteen and they sucked on Rock.  You need a speaker that puts out a big sound and inefficient Vandersteen will not do it.  When I talk Rock, I am thinking along the lines of LED Zepp, PF, Nirvana, etc. Bruce Springsteen, Bob Dylan and even C,S&N are lighter rock and may be suitable to the “other” speakers mentioned but not for real Rock.  My 2 cents worth.  

JBL has always been great Rock speakers

L100s and larger studio monitors.

@atmasphere 

I will gladly take a listen to the King Crimson album.  King Crimson in general is a very different type of rock similar to Pink Floyd.   I have been  a fan of King Crimson.

If I were to just listen to rock.....Van Halen, Bob Seger, Jethro Tull, Who, Rolling Stones, Bon Jovi, Metallica etc etc, then I would just get a good SS amp and dynamic-sounding speakers.  Again, that would just be my preference and it would have saved me thousand of dollars...lol

On my system, which is Aries Cerat amplification, Lampi Horizon DAC, Lucas Audio Music Server, and Viking Acoustic Dual Horn Grande Voix speakers.(soon to be Aries Cerat Aurora speakers), I just have not heard many rock songs that from the production level just wow me.  But when I have friends over and they want to blast that type of music they love it.  

It boils down to my tastes during a critical listening session are different than anyone else.  Everyone has their tastes.  Cheers

Ascend Acoustics Sierra Tower ELX with either the Titan dome or RAAL ribbon tweeter.

If interested in a bookshelf, their Sierra LX

I don't think you are going to be in a room and picturing where the lead guitar is vs the bass guitar. 

@willgolf This suggests to me that you've not heard every rock recording out there. I run a studio; we pay attention to where we place instruments in the mix as do many studios! We record the drums with only 2 mics so we get as natural a sound out of them as possible.

You might try playing side one of Islands by King Crimson. This starts out as a jazzy piece and its very well recorded. It transitions to a pretty intense rock sound featuring multiple Mellotron tracks. It has depth and imaging. You might also try a good copy of ELP's first album... I can go on; I hope you get the point.

Zu

ThePerlisten R7 Loudspeakers are excellent and will play very loud without breaking a sweat  and very musical for any type  of music at $10 k 

before discounts a true audio bargain  checkout the reviews on YouTube 

I find listening to rock vs jazz, instrumentals or classical are totally different.  With Rock I am listening to guitars, drums, and maybe a piano.  I am listening to the overall beat and vibe.   Rock and roll recordings are meant for dynamic speakers.  I don't think you are going to be in a room and picturing where the lead guitar is vs the bass guitar.  That is why I would go SS and Texton or ATC if that is all your are listening too.  

The Op has great amps probably from Gestalt Audio if I were to guess.  I have Horn speakers that are 98DB.  I truly love horn speakers for my Jazz, Classical, and instrumental listening.  Rock and roll do not engage me in serious listening.  I think it is all about the musical instruments and being able to hear each instrument.  Rock and roll is dynamic and in your face.  I would not even use a tube Preamp for just rock and roll.  I am not saying that my speakers do not play rock and roll good either.  I am saying that a dynamic speaker is what I would get if all I was interested in was Rcok.

I am curious what the op is going to do.  

Stuff in your budget worth auditing...

15k - Yamaha NS5000

11k - Borresen X3

But, you will need to put that flea watt power amp away for either speaker and get a pair of Schiit Tyr monoblocks. Those 350 watts will make either speaker kick like a mule.

@atmasphere is correct. No reputable recording studio would pick monitors that favor one type of music or another. ATC, especially their active speakers, can play very loud with very low levels of distortion while being extremely reliable; why they are found in many of the best studios. And yes, a well recorded orchestra at concert levels will place a greater demand on speakers than most rock performances.

@atmasphere @gregjacob 

Yes, I agree with you guys.  

@atmasphere Wrote:

@gregjacob Its actually a myth that a speaker can be good for one genre of music (rock) and not another. If your speakers aren't good for rock, then they are likely weak with jazz and classical too. Put another way, no-one has ever figured out a way to design any electronics (including speakers) to favor a certain genre.

Put yet another way, what makes a speaker good for rock should make it good for classical, jazz and folk just as well. If it isn't, its not that good for rock either, which is simply to say its not that good.

I agree 100%. Genre specific speakers, are pure nonsense!

Mike

@gregjacob Its actually a myth that a speaker can be good for one genre of music (rock) and not another. If your speakers aren't good for rock, then they are likely weak with jazz and classical too. Put another way, no-one has ever figured out a way to design any electronics (including speakers) to favor a certain genre.

Put yet another way, what makes a speaker good for rock should make it good for classical, jazz and folk just as well. If it isn't, its not that good for rock either, which is simply to say its not that good.

Now it might be that you want more sound pressure or more bass. That will benefit classical recordings too. The thing is, humans all use the same hearing rules, so classical, jazz, folk, electronia, whatever- all has the same energy spread across the frequency range. So it takes more power in the bass and almost none at very high frequencies.

I have never heard ATC, but for some reason I got the impression they were more on the colder analytical side.  I thought maybe I read a review or something.  Anyway, am I wrong on that assumption?

ATC SCM50ASLT active speakers retail for $22k. Discount or used bring these down pretty close to $15k. The passive version, what the OP probably is looking for, retails for $16k, well under $15k with discount or used. With that said, current revision ATC 50/100/150 speakers, active or passive, rarely come up used; folks that buy them keep them. I would be one example.

I've directly compared the 50 vs the Legacy Focus in my home. I much prefer the ATC in all respects. Of course, IMHO as a classic rock musician and recording engineer.

Speaking of recording, both ATC and Legacy sell pro versions to the pro audio market. I'm guessing the ratio of ATC vs Legacy in most of the world's best recording studios would be around 50 to 1.

Here's an example of ATCs clients:

ATC Client List

No one with direct ATC experience, either active or passive, would call them polite.

To quote Brad Lunde, US ATC importer: "The company founder/chief engineer (driver inventor) Billy Woodman had a specific target in mind back in the 70s and 80s: the wide dynamics of American speakers (JBLs, Altecs, etc) and the high resolution of British speakers (Quad, 70’s era KEF). The fault of many of these earlier American speakers is they played loud but sounded awful. Inversely many of the British speakers had great sound quality but would not play loud enough for rock and roll."

Yes, a great way to describe the dynamics of ATC speakers would be "speakers that can hurt you before you can hurt them".

"Classic Rock and Roll" is a highly diverse genre that encompasses intimate acoustic guitars, dedicate piano passages, weepy vocals, full orchestra (including pipe organ) and, yes, raging guitars and pounding rhythms with more energy than a Jane Fonda workout video.

My guess is that the OP is looking for something that will require a hand gesture to others in the room to turn down the volume because he’s pinned back against the chair and can’t get up.

We go waaaaaay back with speakers that can hurt you before you can hurt them which begin with the legendary Altec A7s (JBL guys referred to these as "Voice of the Outhouse". Today there are many good choices.

As one contributor mentioned, the Golden Ear Reference is worth a listen. Having been a dealer for these and involved with mulitple "shootouts" in side-by-side against very high efficiency (100db +/-) speakers they will not disappoint. If you took a polite British loudspeaker, vintage ESS AMTs, a commercial sound reinforcement speaker and put them in a blender, the concoction would sound a lot like the Golden Ears. The built-in sub is a brute and you may find your furniture rearranged and have to be nudged back into their proper place after a "highly enthusiastic" listening session. You also may find yourself reaching for a tissue after those weepy vocals (when no one is watching, of course).

Good luck with your search for the perfect speaker that will create a purple haze around your brain, and show you a whole lotta love.

People are suggesting $25,000 ATC’s (ATC SCM50ASLT) the OP requested $15k price ceiling. Which is why I suggested Legacy Focus XD's, they are a hell of a value for that $.

+5 or whatever for Legacy. I’ve only heard the Signatures but they were stunning with rock related material.

Klipsch LaScala's placed about with fronts about 4 ft. out from the front wall or for more money, Klipschorns in the corner.  You system should sweeten the sound of the horns nicely and they's be about right for power.  Dynamic as all hell.  They don't go super deep, but the bass is very potent.  My friend has the corner horns and has broken a couple of his windows from the pressure wave at high volume levels.  He loves them for rock.

Bob

gregjacob

B&W 805 (if you like Monitor speakers), Infinity, Thiel or Vandersteen are all great Rock-N-Roll loudspeakers. Keep me posted on your purchase decision. Big Jazz fan here as well.

Happy Listening!

PBN M1!5…. Can’t beat these for the money and quality. Hand built by Peter himself.   Take a look and reach out if any questions.  I have a few of his speakers.  Also have someone with the bigger 15s which are insane.

Yet another vote for ATC. Prior to the active ATC SCM50ASLT speakers in my main listening room, I had Legacy Focus XD speakers. These ATC speakers are about half the size of the XDs, don’t require power amps (I didn’t like running the XDs full range active), sound better and actually play much louder (way beyond what is safe for my hearing) without distortion.

I’m equally impressed with ATC’s SCM20ASL pro active monitors in my recording studio.

I’m a classic rock keyboard and bass player. Although I enjoy all genres of music, my first love is classic rock.

Finally, I want to point out that passive ATC SCM40 speakers won the Arizona Audio Video Speaker Fest in 2019 against seven other mostly more expensive, highly regarded speakers. The presenter was not playing the normal audiophile music but mostly classic rock. Towards the end, some of the attendees wanted the volume really cranked up. The SCM40s filled the large room with clean, undistorted sound without breathing hard. They were driven with ATC’s P1 stereo amp (100W/channel).

Legacy Audio or Focal.

+1 for ATC SCM40a. Under budget and you can run XLR right to your tube pre. Have a look at their client list….

I have previously owned a couple of PSB models, the last being the Stratus Gold, but have heard a couple of Paul's more latest offerings. I can absolutely attest to their ability to turn your listening room into the best sounding, most articulate Black Sabbath concert ever held. 

My favorite speakers for Rock, dynamic music, and voice this past year (under $15K) have been the Vivid Audio K25's.  The bass and midrange power they present has got me coming back again and again. So much fun!  

Wrapping up, thanks to everyone for your input!  When opening up topics like these, the hope is that many benefit from the answers.  I've garnered much over my time in this forum just by reading questions and answers I hadn't even posed. So, hopefully, this is good stuff for those trying to suss out their equipment.  Thank you everyone.  I will close my part in this discussion and continue to mull over possible tweaks as well.  Cheers.