I remember as a schoolboy going to an all-Bartok concert at the Festival Hall in London. The conductor was Antal Dorati and the performance of Bluebeard’s Castle was recorded, I think by Mercury Living Presence. Anyway, the singer taking Judith’s part managed to ’drown out’ or at least cut through the entire orchestra playing fortissimo, when heard from the rear of the auditorium.
Subjectively, I think about 90% of the sound we hear at a symphony concert is reflected from the venue. Even outdoor venues need reflective shells over the orchestra to project the sound forwards.
If you ever get the chance, get yourself into an anechoic chamber. The absence of reflected sound is totally disorienting. The closest I have come to this in nature was sitting on the top of Iron Knob in South Australia looking out over the Nullabour plain, where only the ground reflected sound. The only sign of life was a dust trail on the far horizon as a lone vehicle headed for Perth, thousands of km away. Near total silence.
(I remember a review of a Jaguar being driven from Perth to Melbourne. On leaving Perth the GPS said ’at the roundabout take the second exit’. The roundabout was 980 km ahead).
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@rvpiano - there is a related post on this to which I responded…..
For what it’s worth, every evening I’m listening to music, I adjust the volume of almost every track that’s being played, sometimes even those on the same album. The reason isn’t purely because of the ‘style’ of music, but how each style relates to what I have come to identify as its most realistic presentation. Of course realism has found debate in our hobby, but for all intents and purposes, the approximation to realism is what defines why we are in the hobby to begin with. And every track of music has its sense of presentation, of what we each may have experienced and sensed at live music performance and attendance to understand relationship to that auditory realism which stirs our emotions. Rock realism IS loud, in precisely the same way that you’d never listen to Joni Mitchell’s ‘Blue’ with any volume than akin to her singing within the small intimate setting of a smoke-filled club or alike recording studio. And still, at a live rock concert venue, Extreme’s ‘more than words’ will have more atmosphere than loudness, all subtle dynamics still in place. Orchestral pieces get a little more latitude - how some tracks are recorded lend themselves to being heard at volumes one would hear from the first two rows or, preference calling, further back at the twentieth row and sometimes even from the upper balconies.
As such, there isn’t a specific loudness i can listen to with any particular genre or style of music, simply because that closeness of resemblance to realism for even various tracks of one genre, may suggest different volume levels for its closest approximation to the presentation that makes it most realistic to me.
The volume i listen to for realism of presentation is typically over a 17 decibel range.
In friendship - kevin
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I was a classical musician who “lived in the world of real music.”
My perception in the world of classical music was that in a musical space, like the stage in a concert hall, I was not deafened by the volume of the music. Granted it may have been a little louder than my stereo, but not to the levels outlined here.
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It should also be noted that the space in which you listen music in a concert hall is vastly bigger than your home listening space. The music reaches you from a much different perspective. 80 dBs in a concert hall is not the same as 80 dBs in your living room.
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Ambient noise levels hardly ever acknowledged in discussions of listening rooms. Higher ambient noise levels may mask lower level information on recordings, as one increases volume this low level info now more clearly heard. Actual resolution of recording and system is fixed, perceived resolution goes up as either volume increased or ambient noise levels go down. People often speak as to how their systems sound better at night, many ascribe this to less noisy AC, I'd offer lower ambient noise levels are mostly responsible. Lowering ambient noise levels in our listening spaces should be of great concern.
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This post inspired me to listen with a decibel meter to my desk top and main systems. I thought that 70dB seemed relatively low, but no. Mid-70s seemed pretty satisfying--about the level I ususaly listen at. The experiment also reminded me that very small increment can make all the difference. 78dB sounds very different than 75dB. Also, I think it is better to start at a relatively low volume and then increase to taste. Once a certain loudness threshold is crossed it is very hard to back off to a satisfying level, perhaps because your ears have been overstimulated, but that is a non-scientific guess.
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My name says it all
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I tend to prefer to listen to several genres, (rock, pop, country, classical, jazz) at peak loudness of 80-88 dB. The softer parts being in the 70 dBs.
Peaks above 90 dB start to feel uncomfortable after a few minutes.
I'm seated about 8' from the plane of the speakers.
My room is 14'x15'. 8' ceiling. Acoustically treated.
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Does loudness play a part in your appreciation?
Yes, higher volume helps cope with shrillful nagging 😉
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Between 80 and 90 dB C-weighted on Decibel X iPhone app. Can't feel the bass much below that...
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@kennyc would there not be nagging over the higher volume? .
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@mrdecibel higher volume enables easier selective listening…additional watts is my friend…
Sleeping with one open may be a necessary self preservation skill
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For me loud enough is just below the level wherethe audio system exhibits strain and distortion.
Don’t like distortion or strain.
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I'm probably an 85 DB is loud guy. Mostly jazz.
Most tracks or albums have a perfect sound level, all different. I turn the sound up until the image of the voice or instrument in front of me is the right size. Too loud and it's blasting and unrealistic. Too small and it elevator music.
Anything realistic in size pretty much prohibits conversation. Guess we are loners a bit with this hobby.
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I've sat in the booths a tiny bar with a jazz big band taking up the entire floor. It was amazing, but if I played my system at that kind of volume it would seem crazy loud—even though my living room is larger than that bar. I think the microcosm of music idea applies, and it's more than compression and good gear. Live music has a different energy to it from recordings. I'm kinda glad. It's part of why I love going to hear live music.
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Saw Jon Anderson and his Band of Geeks live last weekend in a larger theater sized venue. This was heaven for a Yes fan! JA still got it. At 80+ his vocals were pretty immaculate which is a wonder! The Band of Geeks....awesome! Super talented and their youth provided unbridled energy. Bruford and Squire would be proud! I’ve seen Yes many times live over the years so I have a good frame of reference for judging such things.
I was about halfway back. Sound quality was top notch and peaked in the mid 90’s.
When I got home, listening to a high res stream of the similar live album, I set my listening level to just below that to try and best reproduce what I heard. That’s why I have a good hifi.... to get as close as possible to the real thing. If only I had a bigger room to match the theater. Oh well, que sera sera. I’d need to scale up my hifi as well and who needs all that?
All things considered, I came pretty close....not perfect. I’ll blame the recording and associated different live venue mostly for that. :^)
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One of my gripes with some of the live performances we attend is that the volume level is too high for the room; you can see someone singing into the microphone, but can't hear anything they are singing, same with other instruments.
Being a "70-something" I find a "sweet spot" when listening to rock and roll, where it's loud enough to be "full" sounding, but not too loud.
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@ejr1953
+1... 52 for me.
I used to attend a conference that had a big name band every year... Sheryl Crow, Steve Miller... etc. I would also occasionally go to concerts... for instance Pat Metheny. Not only too loud, but the equalization typically tipped to far into the high end. I always ended with napkins stuffed in my ears... and that wasn’t enough. Often the sound system had so much high frequency hash from excessive gain in it that that would send me out of the concert hall. I stopped going altogether.
I much prefer to listen at home. Much better sound system...categorically and not too loud. Much more enjoyable. Also, not being among a bunch of rowdy noisy people.
Then to my chagrin after 10 years of attending the Oregon Symphony they installed a multimillion dollar DSP system to make it sound better and screwed up the beautiful acoustic sound... hardening the violins, raising volume of the bass, and positioning the sound of the drums at the back of the symphony hall among the listeners. It crossed my eyes to listen to what they had done. So it goes.
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