Do I need upgraded power cables?

Yes, people often don’t hear a difference when they "know" before that there cannot be any difference...Pass Labs includes very good quality cords, many companies do not...a nice bonus too is that used power cords are avilable at good prices and hold value a long time...I ended up with after market cords after extensive A-B testing with a friend (all cords were loaners, with free, simple return)...neither of us knew anything about power cords at that time...

@westcoastaudiophile 

I bought some new, but inexpensive standard power cables for my amplifiers to see if they sounded better than my old, but more expensive power cables.  The new cheaper ones that I bought were just new extension cords with 12awg OFC copper wire, with just a black rubber covering.  The contacts were tight for all cords.  They didn’t make it sound much worse, but it was flatter, slightly more muffled sounding.  However, a much more significant difference was comparing the standard power cable with an expensive one plugged into the pre-amplifier:  very obvious, marked difference.  As mentioned, prior to this experience, I had tried upgraded $100-300 power cables in various components, but didn’t hear any difference, so I did not think power cables really made a difference.

drbond, what is "standard power cords for my amplifiers”? 

power interconnect issues could be related to bad contacts, oxidation, etc., including IEC and wall connections; periodic maintenance helps. 

Unless you had a broken cable, there is no difference you are going to hear or measure. This has been tested MANY times. There is a reason there is not a single blind test ever where anyone claiming to hear such differences was able to prove it.
Placebo and bias are very strong things and nobody is immune to it.
Heck, many times I thought for sure I would be able to tell between two dacs or cables just to have my wife come to the room and blind test me and I failed miserable...just like EVERY other person that has tried testing power cables,.
Dont feel bad..the mind is a powerful thing and can easily fool us.

I have been listening to audiophile grade equipment for 25 years. The first items I bought came with an upgraded, aftermarket power cord (for amplifiers).  Since then I have used mostly standard power cords with my other equipment.  Over the years I did try one or two slightly upgraded power cords ($50-300) in my pre-amplifier and other components, but didn’t hear any difference.  Last year, I bought standard power cords for my amplifiers, and didn’t realize it initially, but it did slightly affect the sound quality in a negative way.  Just this past month I demo’d markedly expensive power cords ($1,500+) in my pre-amplifier, and heard a rather significant difference:  it affected the timbre of the instruments, and slightly enhanced the clarity.  This was a difference, but was it better?  Some parts were better, but overall it was just different, kind of like trying different interconnects.  Prior to this experience, I did not think a power cord could make much of a difference.  While I was experiencing this, I also learned a bit of electrical engineering, about how AC waves can have reflections at interfaces, due to different impedances of the conducting materials, which can create an interference pattern in the otherwise 60Hz wave.  Maybe that is part of what’s happening, maybe it’s something else.

"Ignore trolls." By trolls do you mean ignorant people living in a delusional reality of imagination with ZERO proof to back up their claims or people with actual knowledge and FACTS to prove their claims?

Ignore trolls.

"Do I need upgraded power cables?"
Only if your current cord is broken or the wrong size...or if you want a nicer looking cable.
For sound improvements?...NOPE

Two hours into a Saturn power conditioner with an M101 power cord.

So far so good. 

@bzawa Best value for rigs that aren't crazy expensive, Puritan Audio PSM156. It comes with a very good power cable or can be upgraded to one with a crazy expensive power cable. The original is still very good for a supplied cable. 

Why Preffair? Under $40. with free shipping...that is why......and I have built power cables costing more in parts, and my time, that do not do anything better than these. Never have I indicated that they are "real", but at the price, they are FAR and AWAY better, in SQ, than the standard cables that might come with the components. Always, a return is allowed as well...nothing to lose. 

I admit it is awfully impressive for any company to make a power cable that looks this good for under $80, but use some common sense. 

Just the knock-off connectors are look alike Furutech FI-50 connectors which retail for several hundred dollars- each. It is not possible this cable uses any sort of quality, I guarantee they don’t use red copper, it is not 99.998 % pure, and the carbon fibre is plastic. The website pictures aren’t even real pictures. Pure lies and deception. 

Preffair = Chinese knock off. I don’t know why anyone would support this. 

@mrdecibel ​Thanks for the tip regarding the Preffair Power Cords. I will probably give them a try. I've read about the possible differences between gold-plated and rhodium. Do you have any comment on the Preffair Carbon Fiber cable? Thanks​​​​​​

Hello, and I hope you are well. You have a nice system. I would go to Amazon and purchase power cables (brand is Preffair and visit their site) for your amp and subwoofers. I am not affiliated with this power cord company or Amazon. I did build power cords, as it is not difficult, but time consuming. After the price of connectors, good cable by the foot/meter, and the dressing.....you are way beyond these Amazon prices. Your factory power cables are "bottlenecks" to the full capability of the components. 10 gauge cords, will make a huge upgrade. A nice "intro" to the power cord thing. You can select the plug material coating and the specific plug housing you want. I use the Alloy shells with the Rhodium plugs, which sound a bit more extended in the treble compared to the copper plugs, ime. I talked about these before here, and a few folks contacted me thanking me. Someone did not like them, as they were using much more expensive brands. Hope you try, at least one, for your amp. My best, MrD.

"Do I need upgraded power cables?"

Tangible “upgrade” sure, go for it!

Cable has to be compliant with manufacturer's IEC design, safety / UL is important too. 

I use the Cable Co. a lot.

What has worked for me is to borrow usually four cables at one time. I do a fair amount of research to try to narrow choices down to near four.

Because they are already burned in, I don’t have to wait for each one to sound the way it will forever (and its best).

Then I try each one for 2-3 days, listening to very familiar recordings, and taking notes.  Lots of notes.

Then when I have to send them back, I try to pick my favorite.  Most often, one of them is outstanding and sounds exactly like what I had hoped.   Sometimes, none of them sound like what I had hoped for, and I have to start over with another set of four. 
 

This strategy has certainly worked well for me.  I get exactly what I want—because I tried it in MY SYSTEM.  No surprises.  No disappointment.  
 

(Plus, the Cable Co. applies the rental fee to your purchase, so no loss.)

I would encourage you to borrow the Acoustic Zen Satori cables and Matrix Ref. II Interconnects for reference if nothing else.  If you can find cheaper cables that can match those then you’ve really got something.  Best of luck in your search. 

I have had a good experience with the Cardas Parsec XLR interconnects and speaker cables, but your experience may vary if you are looking for a different sound quality from your cables. I think it's great that you are using the Lending Library from the Cable Company.

Several years ago, I borrowed interconnects from the CC and tested them in my home system. I listened to the Cardas Parsec, the Shunyata Venom, a cable from Synergistic Research, and another cable I can't remember at this time. What I do remember is that I liked the Parsec best. It had a smooth, musical delivery with absolutely no listening fatigue. In contrast, the Synergistic cable overemphasized the high frequencies in a way that was fatiguing and lacking in fullness of tone. The Venom was at the opposite end of the spectrum, sounding very smooth and pleasant, but not being especially lively or engaging. The Parsec was the closest to "just right" for my system and my preferences at that time. The Parsec had enough smoothness and richness to help tame my Thiel metal tweeters without excessive softening of the high end.

After living with, and enjoying, the Parsec XLRs and speaker cables for a couple of years, I decided to move up to more expensive options in the Cardas line of cables. I decided not to go all out on high-end detail, but I wanted to add a bit more transparency and openness without giving up too much of the Cardas' rich tonality. I settled on Clear Reflection, despite it being substantially more expensive than Parsec, and I have been very happy with Clear Reflection in my system.

I am currently testing out a few power cables I borrowed from the CC Lending Library. I have been quite impressed with the Shunyata Theta NR cables, although I wish they had just a touch more "meat-on-the-bones" for my taste and system. I'm afraid I'll have to spend more to move further up the Shunyata product line, but the Theta power cords are definitely a great value. I'm currently using Shunyata Delta V2 NR and Venom-12 NR power cables on most of my gear.

I think you are on the right path in trying out cables in your home system to see what sounds best to you. It's easy to be seduced by high-end detail, and too many cables go over-the-top in a way that is not very realistic and can become tiring to listen to. In your listening, be sure to pay attention to which cables help draw you in for extensive listening to your system. You want to select cables you can live with, not those that provide just an exciting "one-night stand."

@acman3  I was going to go the used cable route until I found that The Cable Company is about 5 miles from home. So, no shipping costs. I borrowed the Parsecs and the Shunyata Gamma interconnects and speaker cables.

@acman3 Not yet. Using it for power surges. It was recommended by The Cable Company to upgrade cables first.

Forgot to ask if you changed your power conditoner?

When we talk about differences in wire, sometimes we should mention that some wire, mostly lower level copper, sounds more the same than different. If you didn’t get the sound you wanted, send it back, and try something different. That's the beauty in using The cable company. 

I personally chose to buy used from audiogon and try different cables over the years. If you research the cost you can break even doing it this way. It is fun for me, but others find it drives them crazy. 

The journey is fun in itself!

Good Luck!

Good day ladies and gents

Thanks to all for the advice. I decided to go The Cable Company Lending Library route. Presently, the Cardas Persec interconnects and speaker cables are hooked up. Replacing Monster powerline 2 and cardas quadlink. It was not a wow transformation. I think the parsecs sounder better (maybe a bit gentler). I was a bit disappointed. Just saying... Would anyone care to comment or share a similar experience? 

On what I call "fine" changes to your system, in which I include power cables and power conditioners, I don't recommend A/B ing. Have a friend change (or not change) the setup while you leave the room for a while, then walk back in and see if you can recognize the change that power conditioners and cables make. In other words, do a blind test with a time lag. I say this because we audiophiles have trained our ears to hear fine changes when we're concentrating, but it's very difficult to hear fine changes when you have nothing to relate those changes to. In other words, can you actually hear the difference on a day-to-day basis? 

I recently purchased a Shunyata Venom 16 with an expensive power cable. I heard the difference when I listened to the comparison of my system with the Shunyata and without. The system sounded darker and enclosed without. With the Shunyata the system was less dark and more open. Enough though that I would hear the difference if somebody pulled out the Shinyata and I turned on my system without knowing? Maybe not.

I know I would notice if my Hovland Radia amp were replaced. My non-audiophile neighbor noticed when I replaced it with a Linn amp. He didn't like the sound. I would notice if my Pass preamp were changed. And absolutely notice if my Sonus Faber Olympica Nova 5 speakers were changed to some other speaker. My power conditioner, not so much. It seems like a lot when you grit your teeth and A/B these fine changes, and I believe we audiophiles even pat ourselves on the backs for noticing differences. But on a day to day basis.... I'm not so sure.

Yes, I believe a good power conditioner and power cables will improve your sound quality because that's been my experience.  But, it may not be yours or at least not to the extent you think it important.  One of the joys of this hobby for me is the pursuit of even small increases in sound quality, some times at what others consider substantial expense.  

The first thing I'd recommend is a dedicated 20 amp line for your system only.  Have a good electrician unit from the box to your system from a quiet, isolated portion of your box and make sure you have a good ground connection as well.  This work is usually not too expensive.  Probably the biggest benefits of better circuitry is the increase in wire gauge from the box and better receptacles that come to you with the process.

Then get yourself a decent power conditioner from your local dealer on trial.  They come in all price ranges and won't choke the transients out of your amplifier like the Panamax is likely doing.  In fact, plugging the amplifier directly to the wall may still be best.  Just unplug it when storms come.  

Next, try some well regarded power cables.  All this equipment is system dependent.  AQ's best conditioner didn't do as well for me as Shunyata but their top power cables are terrific.  Your experience will likely be different.  

But, this pursuit and the thrill of listening to life like music are what it's al about.

Enjoy...

@soix 

Thanks!

@zimwig 

Thanks for the clarification.

My “least expensive” comment was really a best bang for the buck.  With a dedicated circuit, the background noise will be diminished tremendously.  It lets the music shine. Cost is all labor.  Get quote from an electrician.

@stuartk  I ran two lines and it was like $200 plus cost of the outlets I bought, but my walls were down at the time so may be more if they have to snake the wires and cut holes.  Just to give you a rough idea. 

@zimwig 

How much does this  "least expensive" option add up to, on average?

I'm curious.

I haven’t read through all the responses, but before upgrading your power cables you should install a dedicated electrical circuit.   It’s the best, least expensive upgrade you can do and while your at it add a good quality outlet.

@bzawa

You got your answer right away from @bigtwin. Order three or four from one of the online sellers that offer trial periods/refunds and audition them for yourself. Audio Advisor is one example.

Personally, I favor The Cable Co. You can borrow burned-in cables from them, listen and decide for yourself. This has become my go-to approach to cable upgrades. I just completed a power cable comparison using their cable lending library and opted to stay with my current brand but move up their line. If you’re interested, PM me and I’ll give you the name of the guy I always work with, there. Very knowledgeable, patient and no hard-sell tactics.

Good luck!

@bzawa the important part of your question is that you’re asking other people what you "need", and in my experience, that’s just never the way to go.

fear of missing out means you’re already in fear ... so you’re not in a position to listen critically or to enjoy

Having said that ...

AC cables have a very real effect on the sound, and there are so many options out there, but it’s only something that you consider at the very end when you are happy with what you have and are looking for something to take it over the top without buying new equipment

when you get to that stage, I strongly recommend Shunyata Research. Not only is it very audible, what they sell, but it’s backed by science, and the pricing is incredibly reasonable for the quality… I believe they have the top quality products in the world

No bad artifacts. Great value  

So the question is, what are you going for, and they have a number of options each with different flavors and different price points, but you can never go wrong buying anything from Shunyata

my three favorite cable products from Shunyata are the Theta, the Sigma X, and the new Omega QR, three very different price points

the Gemini 8 is a nice product for very reasonable money, and you can go up from there into Denali and Everest

@mclinnguy Thank you

You have gotten quite a few measured responses regarding power cables, which I think is great.  Too often these types of threads devolve to the cables do/don't make any difference and "anyone who thinks that they make a difference is deluded."  I am firmly in the "everything makes a difference" camp, and in my system cables definitely do make a difference.  You first have to understand that when most people say that something "makes a difference" or "improves the sound quality,"  they are talking about incremental differences, not "my system sucked and now its great."

In my system, I first tried an Audience Power Chord on my Plinius amp at the time.  I immediately noticed better bass.  I realized then that there was something to this PC thing to my surprise.  An excellent PC BTW.  Over the years I upgraded my system and now I have all Shunyata Sigma power cables, speaker cables and a Shunyata Everest power conditioner.

First, the Shunyata power cables are simply excellent.  You can get a pair of Alpha's used at "reasonable" prices.  I found that upgrading the power cable from stock on my ARC REF 6 preamp was a surprisingly good improvement.  The Shunyata over the Pass stock cable was also a decent but not as great improvement.  I found the power cable on my MSB DAC over stock made a minor improvement -- the least of the three.  And bringing up the rear, putting a new power cable on my REL s/510 was a complete waste of money.  No audible difference at all (to me).  So yes, I think that good power cables will improve the sound of your system.

But the biggest surprise to me was when I decided to stop reading all of the hype about power conditioners and bought a Shunyata Everest with a Sigma power cable.  That literally brought my system to a new level of soundstage, clarity, and dynamics.  The improvement was not small.  Again, not a new system, but it really refined it.  I have my Pass 250.8 plugged into one of the Everest's high current outlets and it sings.  The Everest HC outlasts are designed to handle power amps.  I am very very happy with my Everest.  Highly recommended!  

I’m looking into the acoustic zens. Just wondering why you suggested them. And if you don’t mind - what do you think about about Cardas Persecs?

Thanks @mclinnguy.  I recommended them because you think the Kimbers are bright sounding and the AZs are not, and if they don’t work out you can turn around and sell them for little/no loss so very low risk to try. They walk that rare line of being nicely detailed in the treble but in a very refined way such that they don’t sound bright nor rolled off, and they offer excellent tonality, imaging, and 3D soundstage. If I were to sum them up I’d call them effortlessly natural sounding where nothing stands out. I’ve been using them in my system for about 20 years and they have held off all comers at or near their price, and I have recommended them to several people here over the years and all have been very happy/impressed with their performance. I don’t know anything about the Parsecs and couldn’t find any reputable reviews of them so unfortunately have no useful info there. In the past the more entry level Cardas offerings have tended to be on the warm side with a polite treble balance that I found to be rolled off with the ones I tried years ago (Ultralink or Quadlink I think — can’t remember), but I have no idea if the Parsecs have that quality or not.  All I know is that the AZ cables/interconnects are all-around excellent performers and an outstanding value especially when buying used. Read some reviews for more perspectives, and hope this helps.

Hello soix. I’m looking into the acoustic zens. Just wondering why you suggested them. And if you don’t mind - what do you think about about Cardas Persecs? They were recommended to me. Thanks

@bzawa You need to tag someone by putting the @ in front, and selecting them from the drop down, to ensure they get it, otherwise they would only know you asked the question if they happen to view the thead, like this:

@soix

Thanks audioman58 for your suggestions. You are the third person who did not look favorably on the Panamax. I do plan on replacing it. 

Hello soix. I'm looking into the acoustic zens. Just wondering why you suggested them. And if you don't mind - what do you think about about Cardas Persecs? They were recommended to me. Thanks

Panamax horrible they restrict current many have mov’s 

depending on your budget power cables 1000 % make your system better idf decent , Audio Quest depending on budget the Niagra 1200

a very good Bank for the Buck ,Perrotta Consulting audio 

I get much there great service and pricing

i did a Big upgrade brings the system up a solid 10% increase across the board 

the Niagra 3000 is pretty good the 5000 much better still I should have but the bullit and bought it now I have to trade it in to get it  I like the Tornado cables very much I use theI AQ source for preamp and streamer dac and thunder for the 3000 line conditioner and power amp  I will upgrade them also , you can hear the resolution improvements ,breakin too takes over 100 hours , in Audio it never stops 

for myself never enough $$ monies.,Give me another $60k then maybe just maybe i might be satisfied !!

I appreciate the advice to try taking a DIY approach to power cables. The task only requires stripping three wires, inserting them into the connectors and screwing down the wires. You can decide whether you want any fancy jacketing. The sense of control in the design lets you get maximum value for your investment and get better quality wire and components. It's sweat equity.

@bzawa take a look at this link

• What i have found makes a good cable

It talks about what elements of cable design can improve performance.

Cable are the heart of my system and improves every aspect of audio system performance.

I've applied cables to systems ranging in price from $300 to $70k and in all cases significant improvements were achieved.

The link also identifies a couple of brands that use advanced design techniques and materials

Good luck with your quest, steve

I’m pretty confident these will bring significant improvements over what you’ve had to date. 

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/650192681-acoustic-zen-satori-speaker-cables-25m/

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/650192584-acoustic-zen-zero-crystal-matrix-reference-ii-10m-and-15m-rca-and-balanced-11-pairs/

• What cables/interconnects were you using before?  I’d wait til you have at least 150 hours of playing time on the Kimbers before making any firm conclusions, but it sounds like they could be a mismatch for your system. 

I had an old set of Monster Powerline 2 for speakers. Between CD player and amp was a Cardas Quadlink. (I thought the silver streak would have sounded much better than the Cardas, but it wasn't to my ears) Between Turntable and amp are the ones that came with the Pro-Ject. I would be interested in the used cables you mentioned.  Thanks

I've had the Kimber 8ts and Silver Streak about a month and things are sounding too bright.

What cables/interconnects were you using before?  I’d wait til you have at least 150 hours of playing time on the Kimbers before making any firm conclusions, but it sounds like they could be a mismatch for your system.  Your speakers are known to lean toward the bright side so cable matching becomes even more important, and if it’s still too bright after 150 hours it’s time to move on to something else.  I have recommendations for some very good used cables you could try that’d likely make a big improvement both in brightness and imaging/soundstage for not much $$$ if you’re interested and the Kimbers don’t work out. 

Once again the cable question.  Do cables make a difference yes.  Just did a shootout with power cables on an integrated and CD/SACD player.  One cable was $450 and the other $6,000.  We switched them back and forth.  The result was we preferred the expensive one on the CD/SACD player the less expensive one on the integrated.  Price is not an indicator of synergy with a system so you need to experiment.  If you can actually get loaner cables to test, that's the best you do.

Hello

All my power cords are stock.

The DIY looks very interesting. Is there any particular supplier that anyone would recommend.

I did unplug the amp from the Panamax. Unfortunately it has to be on the same as the Panamax. Things didn't seem to sound much different. Oh, and God help me, I've had the Kimber 8ts and Silver Streak about a month and things are sounding too bright.

Thanks for all the advice!

@wofford 

Salt is to cables, as pepper is to Uranus.

I vote for DIY PC, easy, fun and cheap or very moderate cost and I believe they can make a difference but if not still a fun project. I also believe once past a certain point it is not likely to make much of a difference, just cost a lot more and might make a change that fits ones taste more but not really an improvement unless you like and difference in how they sound, if they do so.

I feel the same for all cables and been making my own for a very long time.

If not into DIY there are great low to moderate cost cables as mentioned here already.

Rick

Retired USN tech and very high end sound quality car audio competitor that made all my own cables and used welding cable for the power ones as well as turned down full sponsorships for what I considered snake oil cables.

To Start with, you have some great equipment! The first thing I’d try before I bought anything new, is to plug your amp into a different wall socket (not the same circuit as the Panamax MR4300) and listen to your favorite tunes. After a few days, do you think you hear a difference?  You may or may not. 
A couple of questions. Are you using the factory power cords to the amplifier and the Panamax?

To Start with, you have some great equipment! The first thing I’d try before I bought anything new, is to plug your amp into a different wall socket (not the same circuit as the Panamax MR4300) and listen to your favorite tunes. After a few days, do you think you hear a difference?  You may or may not. 
A couple of questions. Are you using the factory power cords to the amplifier and the Panamax?