Certainly if you just had a fight with your wife… that preconditioning will have an impact. This kind of stuff can be relevant. But I have honed my listening skills for fifty years. I can over time differentiating conditioning from real sonic differences. Also, one of my pursuits as been philosophy with an emphasis on developmental and cognitive psychology… so I am familiar with stuff that influences perception. I detected this quiet time decades ago.
Most homes are measurably quieter, no trucks and cars creating mini seismic events, quiet power grid. I don’t drink scotch any more and am retired so, Sunday nights are not less stressful. No psychology required. Even when I comes down Sunday night and do not turn on my system the quiet is palpable.
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There may be some legitimate science to support the idea that, as a result of a multitude of factors, electronics may produce better sound quality at night.
I agree with the others here that say such a perception is mostly psychological.
Mood, lighting, the fact that you’re probably not having your scotch (and/or whatever) at 2:00 pm (no judging here) etc.
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Moderator - - Why can't our answers/comments to a specific post, be posted after THAT post, rather than it being lost at the end of the post list?? Ya know, like every other forum on the planet does it!?
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Could you repost that answer, but this time in English please!
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@daveteauk buying off, on? Talking about the coincidentally phrased question response, and what answer that as such phrased question got, alleged buying off?
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Moderator - - Why can't our answers/comments to a specific post, be posted after THAT post, rather than it being lost at the end of the post list?? Ya know, like every other forum on the planet does it!?
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kmckmnn - you certainly do a LOT of Buying Off!!!
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@jhills “During the day, I have to strain to hear the ticking of any of our clocks. Setting on my audio sofa, at night (If I listen for) I can clearly hear the distinct and unique ticking of nearly every clock in the house”…
Yes, excellent point. Most are so immune to all the subtle background noise… your observation is exactly what it takes to be aware of all the components of the ambient room noise floor. When coupled with a quieter power grid you get the best time to listen.
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As my time is mostly occupied with other things during the day, most of my listening, serious or casual, is late at night.
Aside from a cleaner electrical grid, without the clutter of the usual cacophony of daytime noise, subtle sounds become more vivid.
During the day, I have to strain to hear the ticking of any of our clocks. Setting on my audio sofa, at night (If I listen for) I can clearly hear the distinct and unique ticking of nearly every clock in the house or the click clack of the dogs nails as he walks across the floor. When the music goes on those sounds disappear and I am pulled into the performance and become aware of the many subtle nuances of instruments and vocals, that the quiet and calm of the night allows me to appreciate.....Jim
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Forgive me if I have not read all the amusing (I do use that term loosely) comments about why a system comes out at night, so if I hit upon an answer that has already been posted but I did not see one. I know for me I like it dark as a lot of the responders said. That means you lower the blinds or close the drapes, thereby eliminating the biggest sound distorting source in the room those windows. The second reason is metaphysical you intentionally have eliminated all other stimuli (phone computer) {or at least I hope you do} with the sole goal of listening to music and nothing else therefore your mind can is working at full capacity to hear the music and nothing else! I know that sounds crazy because we're not accomplishing anything, but the music sure sounds better!
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@gumbedamit It was interesting hearing him read the question. Having not seen that, it come pretty close to the opening post & topic.
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Apropos the OP's original query, ask yourself, no matter what time of day it might be when you sit down with your system to listen to something new/old/borrowed/blue; Do you find yourself listening with your eyes closed ... ?? Reading the preceding made me realise this is with the majority of people the default "listening" mode. Your 'wetware' is told to concentrate on one sense and automatically (temporarily) attenuates others, especially sight.
Listening in a darkened room or at night just helps this process. You're probably still sitting there at night, listening, with your eyes closed.
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@axpert ,
"For most, in addition to the factors that you mention, the human body tends to go into a more relaxed state, at least for most people anyhow."
Definitely true for me, but tiredness creeps up on me a little earlier nowadays. However, if I can make it to after 2am I usually start to wake up again.
If most people are either morning larks or night owls, then I'm in the latter group, as I suspect that most music lovers are.
I think we can be sure Romeo wasn't wooing Juliet first thing.
@perazzi28
"A simple environmental factor-darkness or a lack of light plays a significant roll to sharpen our hearing. This simple factor allows our brain to decrease visual processing and devote more focused cerebral attention to our hearing."
Makes sense.
There's just a lot less need to be on alert at night.
For a start there's no need to keep checking your smartphone every 20/30 minutes.
Or to worry about the doorbell ringing.
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@gumbedamit could be interesting to watch. Where might a fellow like myself find such an alleged video sir!?
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Just saw a PS Audio video on that same topic....
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Had this same experience, that is until I put in a dedicated 20 amp line and purchased a PS Audio P20. Power conditioning is a must and it has to be with a product that has super low impedance. The grid is super noisy. I am not necessarily pushing PS Audio but I am a fan of power regeneration and in my experience it will get you the best sound at all times of day. Now it is always midnight with regard to my sound. I also keep my kit on standby always. Also, during the day, you may want to try a eye sleep mask. I know that may sound silly but if have found it puts you in a different space when you cannot see anything and can just focus on the sound.
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For whatever the reason(s), my current system sounds much better at night. I first noticed this back in the 80's when I was stationed in Munich Germany. I'd get off work and turn on my all SS system (Pioneer SPEC-4 power amp, SoundCraftsman EQ/Pre, Teac X-10R R2R, dbix 224 and dbx 3BX, Technics SL-1200, and Bose 901's). After about 3 or 4 hours, the R2R sound would be so sweet. At the time, I had no clue about warm-up time.
Now it takes about 30 minutes for my PS Audio stack to warm up and the SQ is really good. Later in the evening, the SQ goes to another level.
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A simple environmental factor-darkness or a lack of light plays a significant roll to sharpen our hearing. This simple factor allows our brain to decrease visual processing and devote more focused cerebral attention to our hearing.
One would believe that the power grid may be cleaner at night but difficult to quantify.
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once I lived in a house with such a horrible electrification, that I could only listen to music after midnight.
I highly reccomend to buy a AC iPurifier. It will sound much better!
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The car at night - Its cooler at night , therefore more oxygen molecules available for combustion . Result more power . Of course turbo charged cars will benefit even more.
Hi-Fi at night. Electro-Magnetic radiation from the sun is shielded by the earth during the night.EM is a known audio noise , that has significant effect on SQ.
I don't buy the AC supply being quieter at night in a normal residential environment .
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Oh, there is no doubt speakers have to warm up. Both the VC and the surround. It is most obvious to me in my Jeep. First thing in the morning my sub seems basically non-existent. After driving for a bit, ambient temps go up, woofer warms up, BIG difference.
I am a Replicant.
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Absolutely. My system always sounds better after the sun has gone down. There is less electromagnetic interference and less nasty harmonics on the grid. The Decware guy is right about letting your speakers warm up for a while. Mine always sound better after 20-30 minutes. The same amount of time I let my tube amps warm up.
I am a robot.
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Re: “gaslighting”, that is in regards to disbelieving anything because it is said, “the person selling it says it works”, which in extreme gaslighting paranoia would require that whatever is said must be disbelieved but for the fact it was said. Or, because it was said (sold) it mandates it be disbelieved.
such as, what was just said.
if it is said, it must be disbelieved.
WHICH is in large part is going on in our present day “media”, mainstream. You can’t believe what you see, 24/7/365, which is gaslighting.
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It also could be all of the other things already discussed, and the other things unknown and not discussed. It could even be not true and merely subjective perception.
it could be that the sun bombards earth with far more than light and warmth, and when sufficiently beyond the horizon everything known and that unknown could be it, if it even does exist. And an interesting derivative in language is, that any word that abstractly equates to “may be”, “could be”, creates an inference of may NOT be, or could NOT be, otherwise descriptives such as ABSOLUTELY would be used.
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There's an easy way to test and see if your system really does what it says it does. If it is truly isolated then it will disconnect from AC and run entirely off batteries. When this happens you will hear the sound improve, and because it is running off batteries and truly isolated it will sound the same regardless of the time of day or anything else. You already said this is not the case so you yourself know it is not isolated as claimed.
Another way I know is another member with the same setup experienced the same thing.
Third way I know is from personal experience with battery isolation in my own system. It is easy to hear the improvement when going completely off AC and running off battery power. It is also almost as easy to hear the degradation when running off battery power but still connected to AC via the charger.
What happens is really no different than what happens in the power supply of every component. Theoretically, these are all "isolated" by power supply caps. Lots and lots of manufacturers claim, and lots of audiophiles believe, that enough power supply filter caps means nothing upstream from this can matter. Power supply transformers after all are transformers. If you know how a transformer works, there are two coils, primary and secondary, with no physical connection between them. This does work to effectively filter out some of the noise riding on the AC line. Some, but not all.
Reality is that as long as there is any connection at all, including even through a transformer, then AC line noise will get through. This is why you hear the sound change even though if your system worked as claimed it would be perfect isolation and sound the same 24/7.
There is no guessing involved. This is not a case of what I "believe" to be the case. This is a case of what I know to be the case three different ways: personal experience, others experience, and a solid understanding of the subject.
Interestingly, your own experience corroborates everything I'm saying.
all my equipment is behind a UPS that completely isolates AC output from AC input by reconstituting the AC voltage and sine wave from a bank of DC batteries.
But, I still notice it.
So where exactly does gaslighting come into it?
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I supply part of my system with lithium ion battery pack that puts out pure sine wave. Using on dac compared with AC fed from modded BPT 3.5 transformer based conditioner, I prefer feed from BPT, slightly more closed in veiled sq with batteries.
My take is the inverters in these products affect sq to some extent, YMMV.
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I am guessing that means you don’t have one. If you did, you’d probably believe what the documentation says, like the specs on the all equipment you own. That, and this was published before 24/7/365 gaslighting became predominant (mainstream).
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The guy selling it says it works. Imagine that!
Just one difference between actual experience and ad copy.
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@millercarbon "... your "technology" does not completely isolate. Your batteries are connected to the grid for charging. AC grid noise gets a free ride.".
You bubble burster you! You do realize now you have made me go back and obsessively research this, just to make myself feel worse, RIGHT!?
Here is what I got, many years ago... it suggests it isolates it. (SU1500RTXL2UA SmartOnline® Double-Conversion Rack/Tower Sine Wave UPS).
- True on-line, double-conversion operation delivers pure sine wave output, precise voltage regulation and isolation from power problems.
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You're welcome.MC....I've learned alot from your perspective on these threads. I just wish everyone on Audiogon would stick to Hi- Fi talk and take their politics to Facebook where it belongs and keep this Hi -Fi only.
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I can’t recall what the “technology” is called, but all my equipment is behind a UPS that completely isolates AC output from AC input by reconstituting the AC voltage and sine wave from a bank of DC batteries.
But, I still notice it.
Right. Because your "technology" does not completely isolate. Your batteries are connected to the grid for charging. AC grid noise gets a free ride. A known problem. A member in Singapore has this same problem. He got it for the frequent power outages. He didn't know about it until he started noticing his system sounded better every time the power went out. The solution is a relay that physically disconnects your battery bank from the grid when listening.
Steve Deckert at DECWARE wrote a newsletter a while back and stated that speakers do not sound optimally until they have been running a minimum of 30 minutes....this allows the coils to heat up and expand.
For a long time now I have wondered why my amp and turntable, everything can be on and running, but still there is a lot of improvement the first 20-30 minutes playing music. The voice coil thing makes a lot of sense. Voice coils definitely do heat up. A lot. They can actually smoke and literally burn out. All good machinists know to get precise measurements parts must be cold. Even handling, your fingers can warm a part enough to make it expand. So heat expands the voice coil, reducing the voice coil gap, which since magnetic fields vary as the inverse square of distance wala! everything gets better.
Brilliant! Thanks!
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I’m not sure of the technical details and how it works but the electric grid is inductive during the day and capacitive at night. More technical minds might be able to shed some light on how that affects audio electronics.
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I worked at a plant that used 20 megawatts power. We would use a transformer and run 480V through the plant. We would see spikes of 600V. So yes, our grid is not a smooth thing. Air conditioners are notorious for ground faults. Dirt in circuits causes "tracking". You have to have an ultrasonic listening device to hear it. Variable frequency drives put out very dirty power. So if one plant does this, think about the community as a whole.. I would go with the difference in the grid as to why your system sounds better. Surprised someone hasnt come up with a cleaning and regulating device, or I just don't know about it.
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As long as I'm good and buzzed, it sounds great to me ANY time of day or night!! 😁
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Steve Deckert at DECWARE wrote a newsletter a while back and stated that speakers do not sound optimally until they have been running a minimum of 30 minutes....this allows the coils to heat up and expand...I never heard this before. I always let my tubes heat up before playing but the speakers needing to heat up....Hmmmm.....It's true. Try it....
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Those who've mentioned snow are on to something, snow is insulator. I have crawl space under house, snow piled up around house, storms on windows down, very little traffic due to snow, no wind, night. This is the absolute very best ambient noise situation for me. The greater dynamic range recordings are most affected by ambient noise floor, quiet passages are absolutely ruined during day, the amount of low level info heard during these quiet passages makes all the difference. Classical music comes alive for me, can't hear all the nuance during high ambient noise times. If one only listens to loudness wars, no dynamic range recordings doesn't make any difference. I have neighbor only listens during day, heavy metal all the time, likely over 100db in his room, ambient noise sure doesn't bother him!
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I’m jealous of everyone that listens into the wee hours. Waking up at 3:30 a.m for work each day I can barely stay up until 8:00 p.m. Lucky!
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Thanksgiving was embarrassing. Entire family was over. Everyone was full from dinner and enjoying some adult beverages. My brothers, who heard my system before suggested everyone head down for a listen. Most had never heard it before.
It sounded like complete trash. Harsh, unbearable trash.
It was around 8:30 pm. The difference - every light, tv, Christmas lights and room lights were on. If it was plugged in, it was on that night. The same was true for my neighbors. Parked cars up and down the street.
My brothers looked at me in puzzlement and left the room, one of them commenting, "You need different gear. Way too harsh, too bright." I was so angry at my investment that I have not listened since.
I knew clean power was essential, but what am I to do now? The time of day didn’t matter in this case, it apparently was an over usage in my home, which probably equates to the time of day for people in high demand areas?
Next time I host, "Okay everyone, I have to turn off all the lights, tv, etc. and then we can listen to my system"... whispers around the room... "How much did he spend on that system?!"
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You know that night time
Is the right time
To be with the one you love.
- Aretha Franklin
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Hmmmm.... just adding things in to compliment the input.
My location: very rural subdivision a few hundred yards from the fringe of a state park/lake. Listening room: finished, basement behind subterranean reinforced concrete walls. I can’t recall what the “technology” is called, but all my equipment is behind a UPS that completely isolates AC output from AC input by reconstituting the AC voltage and sine wave from a bank of DC batteries.
But, I still notice it. Yes, lights out except for the annoying glow of power on indicators helps (I buy off on the your mind gets distracted by other input (light)). Despite my AC isolation, also buy off on the AC/Power grid. Environmental noise is very low in the listening area, all but the most severe thunderstorms go unnoticed, and can be soo quiet that you can hear your heart beat, but I also buy off on ambient noise being less. Having AC isolation I leave my electronics on, so they are always “warm”, but also buy off on after listen for a while at night it still warms up after a while of listen (all the right components within the components warmed up?). I also buy off on the magic of a deep blanket of snow.
i can’t recall ever having a similar DAYTIME experience.... does that support that the SUN does many more things to this earth than provide light and warmth?
i still believe in (enter some ominous music here) “IT ONLY COMES OUT AT NIGHT! (Evil LAUGH (Vincent Price))
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No doubt, better at night.
Than again, call me crazy, but living near the sea I have noticed that low or high air pressure or better, south or north wind, with very different and very distinctive weather that comes along, makes great influence on sound as well (in favour or high pressure or wind coming from north)
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My system always sounds better when there is a blanket of snow at night. Pure magic.
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It is very much a power grid matter. In UK they change over generators of an evening, usually around 9pm and I can hear the sound suddenly kick in. My research company True Fidelity is working on a solution - watch this space!
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...just another miserable day in Paradise....;)
I know no bot, an’ no bot know me...*snicker*
And Robot Rules of Order will be implied....
"Alexa...Do you dream?"
Does Alexa desire?
"Alexa, be spontaneous."
(...brain the size of the planet, but constantly badgered to ’do’ petty chores....)
Will Alexa know ennui, and grow snotty?
Or worse....?
Late night into morning a-muse-ments....*s*
Gotcha’, ’CAPTCHA *poke*
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Other nighty niceties’....
- No one complains about what’s being played.
- No one complains about the volume levels.
- No one interrupts.
- No one to wake in range.
- "No phone, no pool, no pets; 3 elsewhere, out of range." 😏👍
- Consumables of varied sorts.
Life is but a dream within a scheme...a scene seen in a sequence, the script sculpted by all and none...
That kinda day....*L*
All ’bots to report subsistence levels on entry.
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I think there is a whole host of things going on: less noise in the power lines, less of the visual disturbance caused by the electronic components between the speakers, being in a more relaxed (sleepy) state, the glass of Bourbon in my hand, less ambient external noise (traffic, construction in my case) etc. Anyway, I sure notice a difference at night
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- The flux capacitors finally fully kicked in after midnight. Without these fully engaged the system is flat and airless. But yeah, I also think it is a bit of a circadian rhythm thing. We are programmed to mellow and calm at night, this opens us up to hear more, feel more.
I AM NOT A FREAKIN’ ROBOT
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I have heard the power grid reasoning but I think I will go with
the less stressed mind being more open to relaxing sounds.
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