+1 teo_audio
I agree..."the threat is NOW, not tomorrow"
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When I post, I know there is a person on the other end. I am not a monkey. I reread what I intend to post imagining a person will read it. I occasionally revise it to tone it down before sending it. Sometimes I mess up and I am impolite. I try to apologize. I also try to reflect. Nothing above seems beyond the ability of a normal adult. For those who think these steps are too hard for them, the question becomes, What has gone wrong in your life? |
@teo_audio @mahgister ....working on that. *G* My results vary as expected, but one works within one's own mental playground. ;) But when someone starts quoting something from Scientific American with regards to their cable curios, it's 4:30 Somewhere... *L* @sns, well stated all in all.👍 If left to ourselves in a broad sense, our sensitivity to others can either bloom into a better understanding or devolve into needling attacks.... Civilized? Barely...the veneer of civility peels off way too easy, too fast. "Smart....but not wise...." Not enough, not yet... Still too tribal for our own good, always seeming to be on some sort of verge, calamity, imbroglio, snarling cat fight.... We all want Better.....but vary a lot on what that really entails. Even this pursuit ('hobby', interest, etc.) is but a microcosm of the whole to the fourth power...or more... "Trying to enjoy the floor show, wonderin' what the last act will be..." ;) |
Above posts all good. If this was unmoderated forum I suspect many of us would no longer visit. You wouldn't even recognize it as audio forum, and nearly every audio topic would dissolve into unmitigated personal attack. I'm in agreement with those who observe people are much more likely to be nasty in social media than in physical contact. I just question which one is the authentic person? I suspect the social media one may be the more authentic. I suspect learned social skills and fear of physical confrontation tame that setting. Social media's learned social skills are no holds barred, don't have to fear physical contact.
I understand AG ban on trading contact info for business model purposes, without that ban AG business model would be unsustainable. Always remember, the First Ammendment gives businesses the right to moderate free speech, this is NOT censorship, nor is any censored post here that. Ironically, this ban may also serve other unintended purposes in that it protects some members from physical attack from others.
Nearly total unlimited, or any free speech for that matter does have consequence, a far more divisive populace and actual death being just two. How much consequence can we stand?
Teo presents us with some ideas and tools to ensure free speech from future limitations. Without some level of self censoring, its likely outside forces will step in to moderate free speech. I predict they'll be a time when the peeps tire of present level of free speech, at that point they'll be an equal application of that censoring, or the stronger tribe will silence the weaker. |
FYI, this is why Elon Musk bought Twitter and is going to change it to a human verification model. AI is not just coming, it is here. and it is now good enough that it can create a billion emotionally manipulative bots, for the written word, as separate individual entities, in less than a second. Note the the names of the entities and groups that are after him for embarking on a path that shuts down an emergent threat (the threat is NOW, not tomorrow) of bots taking over the conversation at Twitter. AI bots are now good enough that they the can swing humanity's intent, meaning, and direction. Literally. The various forms of press and media..they do that already, via cunning human prose. Imagine the AI, learning by leaps and bounds, being injected into that morass and pit of manipulation, in a billion different perfected forms that each and all ----exceed your ability to detect them. The below video is not perfect, by any means, but it shows the current state of affairs and then one can infer the stuff that exists and is not yet released..from the video. Where things are going can be inferred. AI technology is growing by leaps and bounds and it WILL and IS exceeding you and I in capacity to manipulate humanity.
And it is in the hands of the careless, the power mongering, and the madmen.("into the hands of madmen!" see video below)
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Great post! thanks teo... Especially that:
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(just grabbing the above response as a method of introducing the following text. Nothing personal. I had to say that, and the text below, will explain why. That it is not aimed at the orignal quoted poster. I can internally infer an understand that..but...well..we’ll see about the ’why’ of all of that.) Humans actually are nice and decent to to one another. In person. We are invariably (not always, see politics and corporate fronts, re pathological aspects in people grabbing hold and becoming predominant in sectors of human life. Media as a manipulation, etc) decent and correct and self correcting, in person. We strive to be civil even in difficult situations. The problem with written communication, is that it works well in book form. We can suspend disbelief and we create a novel in our heads. Almost nothing of that novel is actually in the book. A writer crafts that simplistic story into a sketch framework, that you fill in yourself. This comes back to break our connectivity, when we have antagonism or negative emotions in what we write to another on a forum. Once negativity in written casting enter the chat, we tend to go negative ourselves, moreso. To a high degree. 90% of normal ’in person communication’ goes missing when we read just text, in communications. This is a well covered well studied factual thing, with reams and reams of research behind it. It’s a strong number, this percentage thing of only 10% making it to the page vs in person voice and body language, etc. Human communication is complex, involved, and evolved.. and has major instinctual aspects to it. Ie, large unconsciousness factors are involved in ’in person’ communications. We ’feel people out’. continually. It’s all we do. When we read a good novel, or in this case, read a post..We create the other 90% in our heads, just like when we read that great novel. the response we have is not them, our reaction is not them, it’s coming from US. we create and fill in the 90% from inside our heads, and the complexity and depth of response is almost entirely us, individually, as a reader. Of course our moods and lives of the moment are reflected in our response, as well as being determined by who we really are. Thus, nasty responses to a negative post, say more about the poster of the response, than anything else. to the tune of up to a 900% amplification factor being involved. Trolling is a subject, for a good reason. This internet thing is new to the human creature... and as you can see, we’ve not really figured it out yet. so keep your written communications CIVIL, and KIND, and of GOOD NATURE. Otherwise it will, for all practical purposes... instantly devolve into projections of and in violence. Any subtleties of attack or lip curling or negative intent in the text, in any way, will be amplified and brought to life in the reader’s head. It’s a reality that you have to deal with. You do it, I do it, everyone does it. If you want a good forum, bring your best game of and in integrity with ZERO attempts to be sly, or cutting, or clever, or subtle in your anger or nastiness or any negativity you feel at all. Otherwise ...it’s just monkeys beating each other to death at the watering hole.
You have to rise above that and post only open goodness and correctness and wear that even keel openly in the face of all temptation, on a forum. Otherwise, you are the source of negativity. We are dealing with the written word version of the effect of Pareidolia.
Since it is only 10% of the entire in person human package that is delivered in text communications, we can take that and turn it around and say (not an exact number, here) we need to be 900% better in our quality of written communications. |
I think free speech in politics should be grounded in truth telling after all you are trying to convince the voters of your qualifications and character. When the candidate spews nothing but lies he/she undermines our democracy. Look at some of the lying Kooks that get elected. This country is in deep poo because of it. |
As @larsman said, Audiogon is a private company. I just don't understand the argument people make about free speech when dealing with private entities and that means all social media as well. Get it through your head, a private company is FREE to do as they choose in the marketplace. If you don't like it, you don't have to use the service. |
if you pay for the ad and fees for whatever you are selling they cannot be cheated ,and this should be the buyers space imo, you used to be able to Add a hyperlink for say a review for what you are trying to sell this too has been removed. This is why others use U.S audio mart which has taken at least 20% of Audiogon business . |
that happens when you use “ bad words” like email address dot com phone
they are doing this to stop off line transactions and i try and explain to them that is not hard to send a member a email address or other info, but they don’t get it.
trying to send a link or info to another member via pm is hard.
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