MHDT Atlantis (under $1000) or Pagoda. Buy a 5670 > 6dja/6922 tube socket converter for the buffer tube, and then get a nice NOS ecc88, e88cc, 6922 or CCa tube to plug in to it. Big, bursty, musically-convincing, toneful sound will result.
Phil
Phil
DAC finalist please help
Hi all,
hope everyone is doing well this holiday season.
I’m back on the DAC hunt and I have narrowed down to these different but compelling DAC’s.
Unlike a lot of you guys on Audiogon I’m not a millionaire : ( My budget is only 1,500 bucks but I think there are some good choices in that range.
If any of you folks have experience with any of these pieces I would greatly appreciate your thoughts.
I’m replacing a McCormack DAC-1 that I have owned since new.
I still listen and continue to buy Redbook CD’s so something that would be kind to those is important.
I’m trying to make the determination on overall what would work and sound the best.
NOS with tubes is intriguing as is R2R as is just a good chip set.
I’m looking at a Aragon D2A used $600 for redbook playback and maybe teaming it up with a Xiangsheng 05B to handle modern formats DSD etc, less than 500 bucks the two together would be just north of a grand.
On the NOS front the Audio Mirror Tubadour III NOS w/tubes, new $1,500.
The Denafrips Ares II R2R used about 800 bucks, or the Musician - Pegasus, new around $1,100.
And then there is the Line Magnetic 502CA tube, used 700-800 dollars.
I love the look of the LM and it's got a great tube stage, I definitely have a bit of a crush on this one.
I realize I’m a little bit all over the Map here, but again if anyone has thoughts or has /had one of these DAC’s I’m all ears...Many thanks and Happy Holidays!HG
hope everyone is doing well this holiday season.
I’m back on the DAC hunt and I have narrowed down to these different but compelling DAC’s.
Unlike a lot of you guys on Audiogon I’m not a millionaire : ( My budget is only 1,500 bucks but I think there are some good choices in that range.
If any of you folks have experience with any of these pieces I would greatly appreciate your thoughts.
I’m replacing a McCormack DAC-1 that I have owned since new.
I still listen and continue to buy Redbook CD’s so something that would be kind to those is important.
I’m trying to make the determination on overall what would work and sound the best.
NOS with tubes is intriguing as is R2R as is just a good chip set.
I’m looking at a Aragon D2A used $600 for redbook playback and maybe teaming it up with a Xiangsheng 05B to handle modern formats DSD etc, less than 500 bucks the two together would be just north of a grand.
On the NOS front the Audio Mirror Tubadour III NOS w/tubes, new $1,500.
The Denafrips Ares II R2R used about 800 bucks, or the Musician - Pegasus, new around $1,100.
And then there is the Line Magnetic 502CA tube, used 700-800 dollars.
I love the look of the LM and it's got a great tube stage, I definitely have a bit of a crush on this one.
I realize I’m a little bit all over the Map here, but again if anyone has thoughts or has /had one of these DAC’s I’m all ears...Many thanks and Happy Holidays!HG
58 responses Add your response
check out the Musician Aquarius (above the Pegasus) $2800 I just watched a YTV review of the Musician Aquarius DAC - Technically Impressive R-2R Sound While I am very interested in the Audio GD, this is much smaller, and rack friendly "Only" $2800 and comes in white or black https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5pTPCtNJ6M&t=905s |
@whipsaw Musician Pegasus r2r DAC is more than comparable in sound and build quality to Denifrips Pontus II. Listened and compared them both and saved over $1K by going with the Pegasus. Internals are nearly identical. i agree w you 100% -- people who post this BS without the slightest clue.... |
@rossman Musician Pegasus r2r DAC is more than comparable in sound and build quality to Denifrips Pontus II. Listened and compared them both and saved over $1K by going with the Pegasus. Internals are nearly identical. They are not even close to being "identical" internally. Readers should search for images and compare. To use the most obvious example, the Pontus employs two toroidal transformers, as opposed to one for the Pegasus. I have no opinion on the quality of the Pegasus, but it is not closely comparable, in terms of components, to the Pontus. |
@jjss49 Agreed on both accounts. Congrats to the OP on your purchase, glad it's working out. Always nice to hear about a new product, thanks. Have to disagree on the Audio Mirror criticism though. I have opened my Tubadour to put in solid core silver wiring, low mass silver RCAs, and big solid core copper coming off the transformer. Nothing at all that concerned me about workmanship or quality when I was in there. I've got a picture of my unit opened up on my system page if anyone wants to check for themselves. |
@grossman616 i have vlad bazelkov's tubador dac as well as his set45 6c33c mono amps... they are both superb in their performance and value ... perhaps what the wiring looks like 'under the hood' isn't as neat as some, but the performance of his gear is absolutely top notch in my experience and he is there to support and answer questions - a true audiophile small scale designer/builder with excellent sonic sensibilities hope you have found what pleases you... |
I was set to get the AM tubiedoor : ) But then they stopped returning e-mails. It's OK I saw some "under the hood" pics and no thanks, yikes. for now, just to get a taste of the whole NOS thing, I bought a VERY NICE bespoke little DAC. Built by a retired electrical engineer ( and patent holder) using a TDA1541A with Philips Forum 10th anniversary board. Still breaking it in but on the whole very nice. Tons of air and space and detail. As far as something for higher rates I am looking at maybe the Woo DAC or ??? Some of you will hate me but I just can't get past the clock radio look of the Mhtd products Maybe the Schiit??Many many thanks for ALL the useful info folks! |
toronto jay is not the most articulate video reviewer on yt, but he is quite honest https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qH0MY044X8Q i think caution is called for... |
would describe it. 1100 bucks for a superb dac. Disclaimer: there are many dacs out there that I have not heard. I am inclined to believe that there is some magic in the R2R technology. I have a Holo dac that I have yet to get operational. Finally, the Black Ice preamp is stunningly good. Spatially, it does things in a good way no other preamp has done. It grips the low end like a vise grip. Soundstage and clarity are superb. |
Have a recently purchased Musician Pegasus R2R dac for my exercise room system. Ampzilla mononblocks, Musical Fidelity X-Ray CD player (used as a transport), Black Ice F-360 preamp, Maze Audio Interconnects, and Silverline Sonata Sonata speakers. I had an excellent modded Aurilac Vega DAC dac the Musician replaced. The Musician is simply better. Huge soundstage, muscular sound, crystalline clarity is how I |
Musician Pegasus r2r DAC is more than comparable in sound and build quality to Denifrips Pontus II. Listened and compared them both and saved over $1K by going with the Pegasus. Internals are nearly identical. What an incredible find! The Pegasus replaced my Schitt Yggdrasil V2 with a lower noise floor, better detail retrieval, wider soundstage and better dynamics. I was quite surprised and pleased to discover this lovely, truly balanced DAC. |
Thank you one and all! A lot of votes for the AM Tubadour III. The SE is beyond my budget rt now but the the standard III gets good reviews and I think it's upgradeable...??? MHDT Atlantis is another. I could not find a AM used, if I did I would buy now. MHDT however... I have my current DAC for 25 yrs from new so I don't swap around much. Thanks again so much for your advice!! Happy Holidays!! |
616Man, Many the new R2R DACS are getting great reviews. Sadly the Chi-Fi gear is a one way sale as will any used gear. So the chance to compare is not an option. I just sold my Oppo 205 and bought an Innuos Zen 3 streamer. No DAC inside. I also just bought the Denafrips Ares 2 direct from Vinshine. $750 all in. Reason I chose it? They resell at full boat in 1-2 days. That is as good as a trial period. Which one of the top 10 above is best for you? Does it matter anyway? You will likely trade up and out of what you buy now in 1-2 years. Anyway that's how I see it. Denafrips offers a 3 year transferrable warranty and just arranged for a US service center. Border Patrol has a tube sells for $1250 and has a 1 year warranty. Our club held a shoot out Aug 2019 with 9 DACs. See AZAVCLUB.com for full review. 25 people blind listened and rated 1,2,3 as that was the input max. We repeated this 3 times. If you added the 1st and second place votes, Yaggy won. Strictly on first place the Jolida won. Chord was up there too. We added the new LM model at the end and it was preferred by those still in attendance. Biggest loser was PS Audio Direct stream which no one voted for! We had a lot of top brands mostly $1,500-$2500. RME, HoloSpring, Chord, IFI, Schiit, Line Magnetic, Jolida ice, PS Audio and others. What do I think of the Ares 2? A full upgrade in terms of fullness and clarity. Still getting hours on it. My wife sat down the 1st day and immediately said "Wow, this is better"! Good luck! |
Border patrol dacs are very nice and well received and have a Tubed power supply. That’s what I’ll get when money allows. For now my musical fidelity v90 dac does the job @ $299.....😁, a border line class A recommended component in Stereophile. It is an amazing little box for the money. I still got a new in the box Jolida glass dac 10 I’ve yet to try. That one too is a well received and reviewed dac. Especially if you replace the stock tubes with the Tung sol 12ax7 gold pins...and maybe a AQ nrg z3 power cable, thata my plan for that one. |
I too have an MHDT Orchid with the upgraded tube - costs $1,200. Lovely sounding DAC, very high quality build and look, great customer service from both MHDT and the dealer. They are a steal for their quality. I recommend also considering their Pagoda balanced. https://www.lineartubeaudio.com/products/mhdt-labs-dacs?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI8IqXsr7Z7QIVxZyGCh3y7A7fEA... https://6moons.com/audioreview_articles/mhdtlab/2/ |
about once a month, every month, a new 'what is a good, natural sounding dac' thread comes up... obviously, this is ground that has been previously covered... i did a 30-dac shootout earlier this year and in prior threads i reported the following -- i repost these 2 comments i made in the past couple months for the benefit of newcomers who don't search back to slightly older threads covering the same subject matter remember the search bar above is your friend... ***************************************************************************************************** of the dacs mentioned so far which i have tried i would break into the following groupings - for your benefit in system matching for tonality ***************************************************************************************************** i won’t say which is my favorite, it so depends on rest of system and synergies desired - but here is what i have kept vs gone (have 3 systems across couple homes so lots of duplicate gear) |
I have seen that Aragon D2A here on Audiogon for $599, so I think we're on the same page. This ad has been re-run a few times. Unfortunately, it is being offered for twice the Audiogon Bluebook price. That's typical for that seller. Also, that's a pretty dated piece. DACs have evolved quite a bit since then. I think your $1,000 would be better spent on a used Benchmark DAC, but it's your money so you decide. You have a lot of good suggestions from other members already. I just don't think the Aragon is a step up from your McCormack DAC 1. |
I have a Denafrips Aries II, and surprised by some having a sibilance issue. I had heard rumors of this being a possible issue, but I do not have that problem, and have tested it with many recordings. Perhaps my cables, or something else in the chain. For the money, I think the Aries is tough to beat. Really improved the music from my digital sources. That said, yes, the Pontus, I’m sure, would be even better, but at twice the cost of the Aries. No regrets with the Aries here. And to the OP, you should be able to get a new Aries for right around $760 US. $800 for used seems a bit high. |
+1 on the British audiophile youtube channel Also, I recently found this channel, and I believe that the following video is one of the best DAC shoot-off reviews I've heard: https://youtu.be/sCP63G8MYOI First time listening to this youtube channel. He does a great job talking about the differences in these DACs. I once heard someone describe audio gear as a spider graph. Sometimes you can get improvements across the board, like when moving up in price point, and other times you give up some some traits for other traits, like when deciding between competing gear at the same price point. I haven't heard such precise descriptions for the trade-offs in DACs as I have in the above video. See what you think! |
Hopefully I don't sound like a used car salesmen since I originally recommended the dac, but I may have a used AM-T3se for sale in a month (upgraded with solid core 99.999 silver signal wire, wbt pure silver rca's, and copper shielding for the analog section). I've got a Holo Audio May on the way. Double the retail and most certainly not double the sound quality. Very curious to see how they compare. One of the two will be up on usam by the end of January. Just thought I'd mention in case you were getting frustrated by the lack of used AMs for sale. |
I second the YGGY GS. I’ve had mine about 6 months, sounds great and if you get the itch it is upgradeable. Schiit is great to work with. If I want to upgrade my YGGY all I need do is call an make an appt date. Then ship to arrive the day before, they will do the upgrade and it will be headed back the next day. Good people to work with.. |
I have a Metrum Jade in my second system and it sounds good. I can also say I just this week purchased a McCormack DAC-1 that is on its way to Steve McCormack so he can perform his magic. SMc is currently way backed up and the cost will probably be north of $2K and, as you know, the end result will only be an 18 bit DAC that doesn’t do any sort of high res, but some people with pretty good ears like how those upgraded DAC-1s sound, so I am going to find out. In the meantime, I am enjoying a Mojo Mystique V3, which sounds really good but is more than what you want to spend. The Schitt DACs should be a good fit for you and a nice balance between price and performance at the price you are looking to spend. Maybe also consider DACs from MHDT Labs. |
in your price range you should also consider Schiit Audio, they made their name on bang for buck DAC’s not to mention they have one of the all time hero’s in DAC designers designing them, Mike Moffett. I tired a few in your price range a year ago and settled for the Schiit Audio Gungnir Multi Bit ( R2R is multi bit) $1299. but I’d look at YGGDRASIL GS $1599. its Schiit’s top model at $2499 with their older analogue card 1 they are selling for a dam good deal IMO. Schiit Audio: Audio Products Designed and Built in California |
@grossman616 you can remove the mini tube tube adapter to run 6922 tubes in the tubador - this doubles your gain at the dac output... you can then tube roll and that is fun and good to manage tonality to your preference Tubes used in the DAC are 5977 subminiature tubes. They are mounted on a special tube adaptor, which is plugged into a regular 9 pin tube socket. You can just unplug the adaptor and use regular 9pin tubes, which can be any of the following tubes: 6N1P, 6DJ8, ECC88, 6922 and 6H23P. After experimenting with many tubes we found that 5977 is the best sounding tube for this application. Second best sounding tube is 6N1P. After all it’s a matter of taste. All the 9pin tubes mentioned above have almost twice the gain of 5977, therefore you will have twice higher output level from the DAC - around 2V. Expected tube life for 5977 subminiature tubes is >5000 hrs. good luck |
Thank you one and all! Nice to hear from real people who have the gear I'm looking at. The MHDT is something that caught my eye too but didn't know much about. There is one on US Audiomart's site I think so thank you for your suggestion. I will look into the other choices as well.I appreciate the comment about the Ares II. I have been talking to Mr Bazelkov, at Audio Mirror about changing to 9 pin tubes because I need higher output, passive pre-amp -Maggie's you get the idea.Although it's at the high end of the range new is nice as is dealing with the owner, American made etc. NOS is very interesting to me. I'm a minimalist at heart, and grew up with a vintage Scott tube set up. As always, good advice found here! So again, many thanks one and all. Happy and Safe Holidays!!!HG |
i mentioned the mhdt’s and codex due to the op’s stated budget the top audio mirror tubador (3se i think is the designation) is $2500 it is ever so slightly more refined/detailed than the mhdt orchard/istanbul/stockholm but the presentation is very very similar - certainly not 2.5x better, maybe 3-5% better on a good day the am is one of the pricier dacs i have kept, along with the sonnet morpheus, so i am not knocking vlad’s dac at all finally i shd also add metrum dacs as another wonderful r2r candidate - a touch warmer and smoother than the denafrips with no loss of detail presentation - just tremendous sound for the money in their lower models, and absolutely top decile sound for their higher ones (jade, adagio, pavane) of which the sonnet is a close relative... |
