Counterfeit Chinese Cables

@roxy54   I meant to type "why this thread continues to fascinate ME".  Not speaking for anyone else.   I have in fact bought some cables from the ALI site.  Not the Nordost cables, but the Furutech cables.  The sound was dull.  Kept them in for awhile but the music was just lacking in every respect.  Put my old cables back in (Silversmith Audio's FIDELIUM at the time) and presto, the full sound returned.  Would the Ali Valhalla cable prove to be the magic bullet?  Common sense tells me no, but...........   Do I want to spend even more money chasing the dream?

The fact there is so much thread about cables improvement and very few compared to cables about mechanical vibrations controls about the lowering of the noise floor and about the EMI shielding not to speak about not only important room acoustic controls and not mere passive treatment but also about acoustics concepts and experiments say a lot about the ignorance level...And i will not speak about homemade  "tweaks"  because i will be labelled "tin foil hat" ...

I forgot to say most thread are about purchase and ectatic upgrades ...😋

And to make my point clear cables can make a difference ...A small one yes thats all compared to the list above ... 😊😉😁

@tksteingraber  While not being a total denier of cables, as are some members on the site, I must admit I have never once heard a big change in sound when cables have been replaced.  Maybe it's because I started out with quality cables?  I would love to have the experience I read about on this site.  How swapping out an interconnect suddenly brings about these changes/improvements that are just so noticeable.  But for me, it just has never happened.  It's just been a LOT of money spent, and no big improvement.  Keep in mind, my system sounds great.  Maybe I just need to accept there isn't really anywhere to go at this point?   

@bigtwin 

"I keep coming back to the number of people on this thread who claim these inexpensive replicas are the best sounding cables they have heard.  Not sure why this thread continues to fascinate.  The idea that a $200 Ali cable is going to bring a big improvement in sound is silly? "

And yet you haven't tried it, so how can you have an opinion?

@bigtwin Since your DIY post I have been thinking about trying VH ‘s Chela wire and work on my hand/eye coordination🤪.  If you do purchase the Valhalla I would be interested in how the SQ compares.  Yes, this hobby is a continual search for better SQ frequently defying logic.  I have found that quite often new tubes, cables, fuses or other tweaks the sound is not necessarily better but just different.  I find it nice to have those SQ choices for your mood or music type.  And the search goes on!

@tksteingraber  @tweak1  Thanks.  The likelihood of the ALI cables sounding better than my VH is pretty slim.  The Ali cable is using 7 stands of wire per side. 

The CHeLA OCC speaker cable is made of 48 individually insulated 24 AWG SOLID OCC (Ohno Continuous Cast) copper conductors that are insulated with VH Audio's AirLok� dielectric. VH Audio's AirLok� dielectric is a proprietary form of foamed/cellular Fluoropolymer that has a dielectric constant of LESS than 1.5 and an extremely low dielectric absorption. The 48 OCC copper conductors are braided into VH Audio's Counter Helical Litz Array TM geometry (C.He.L.A.) around a core containing strands of unbleached cotton. This special self-shielding speaker cable geometry results in very low inductance (.011 uH*), reasonable capacitance (230 pF*), and low DCR (1.35 milliohms per foot*). Additionally, the CHeLA geometry results in more symmetrical field interaction between strands vs. conventional braided designs. Aggregate AWG for each grouping of 24 conductors is 11 AWG, and approximate cable diameter is 3/4"  (cut and pasted from VH site)

I keep coming back to the number of people on this thread who claim these inexpensive replicas are the best sounding cables they have heard.  Not sure why this thread continues to fascinate.  The idea that a $200 Ali cable is going to bring a big improvement in sound is silly?  And yet we in the hobby continue to chase the dream regardless of what common sense tells us.

Tweak1  Can I ask what "well known/reviewed and expensive cables " you were referring to?  Thanks.

@bigtwin

MY ALI-E POST FROM 10/22:

@bigtwin  I don’t think these  cables will compete with your DIY VH Audio cables you built.    I don’t think it matters which store you buy from its all the same wire they use.  Connectors vary and I would pick the ones you like best. I bought mine from Sound Labs and they used  bananas to spades under the brand Audiocrast which I preferred.  I don’t like them using brand names.  They sound great on my system but I am unable to justify buying  big $ cables.  Also, I bought 30mm black flex cable sleeve to cover the wide flat cable.

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804506108076.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.order_list_main.25.33991802V8Gh2a&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256803187743733.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.order_list_main.29.33991802V8Gh2a&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa

@tksteingraber  which Ali store did you buy the Valhalla speaker cables from?  There seems to be many different cables at different prices, all using the Valhalla name.  Thanks. 

I replaced my Dh Labs silver sonic speaker cables with the Chinese Odin 2 silver cables then with the Chinese Valhalla cables.  The Valhallas are the best by far and here to stay.  What great speaker cables for the money.  Have not tried the Valhalla 2’s and really don’t feel the need.  

I rather like the knockoff Odins.

I needed another XLR cable a few years back and having read about the fakes sounding good (I think) in another thread, I thought I’d give it a try.  I figured as long as I wouldn’t want to take them out immediately upon hearing them I’d be satisfied.

And I wasn’t expecting much, quite frankly.  
 

I replaced a genuine Nordost Quattro Fil with the fake Odins.  And, to my delight, I didn’t feel the need to put the QF’s immediately back in.  The Chinese cables sounded great so I didn’t bother with ABing them.

Then I needed some speakers cables and went the fake Odin route again.  This time the fakes replaced a genuine Analysis Plus Silver Ovals.  Results the same as when I swapped out the XLRs.

Great bang for the buck products, IMO.  

Rolox.

Do your Chinese Valhalla SC have the large ( approximately 3 inch by 3 inch wood sections) that the clear plastic portion wire runs thru) ?

Aliexpress shows 2 different versions.... One with the aforementioned wood blocks...its referred to as Nordost Valhalla 2 Reference. The other, less expensive version, is call Valhalla 2.

@rolox

If I had speaker cables like those that were already terminated, I wouldn’t try to reterminate them because you might run into trouble if you’re not really experienced. Having said that, I had read in recent years that brass wasn’t as good as conductor as copper, so I decided to change the binding posts on my speakers to KLE low mass copper from the heavy brass ones that they came with, and the positive sonic difference was noticeable.

More recently, I bought a different set of speakers that are single wire, and I had a bit of a problem, because my favored cables were an internally biwired set. For a few weeks I used them with the unused banana plugs just hanging out in free space, obviously not a good idea.

I then remembered that I had for many years these Monster cable heavy brass banana five-way things that would allow me to put the other two banana terminated wired in contact with the speaker. I lived with that for several weeks until I remembered that I had seen some piggyback bananas once, and if I could find them it would solve my problem. I did some research and found solid copper piggyback bananas on walmart.com (of all places!) for $19.00 for the 4 pieces that I needed. The were made with set screws (no soldering) and I did the job two days ago.

Punchline, the difference sonically is a revelation! For the first time in three months, I am realizing how good my speakers really are. I am still shocked.

I have since looked at binding posts and RCA’s on walmart.com, and it turns out that they are a great source for these things at extremely affordable prices.

4Pcs Banana Plugs 45 Degree Angled Banana Connectors Screw Locking Connectors for AV Receiver,Amplifier,Speaker Silver - Walmart.com

@roxy54 brass is much maligned nowadays but it has been the metal of choice for connectors for almost a century.

Oh yes, some good pure copper or silver (if you can afford those) might be even better, but my Chinese Valhalla SC sound so fabulous with their original, chinese brass bananas that I doubt I’ll ever bother to swap them. I’m not in a hurry anyways.

@czarivey 

Thanks for the compliment. I let most of them pass because with many, like yourself, English is not their primary language, and I admire those who are bilingual which I am not. That said, we can all learn from corrections, and be better for it.

When a person uses improper spelling, punctuation or conjugation in written words, I think readers lose respect for them. 

@roxy54 , maan you are DEFINITELY #1 watcher for the correct spelling and grammer. A true and dedicated language pro or even Nazi...

I myte consider doin' wrong spelling on perpuz so to be entertained by your ansorz :-)

Sorry for exposed roxy-pot-roast recipe. 

@danmar123 

Your last post doesn't make much sense, and by the way, in the way you used the word, it's spelled right. Also, high efficiency speakers are at least as good as any in revealing small differences. In the end, I guess you just don't want to know what you don't want to know. Carry on.

To get an idea behind Chinese knock-offs from original cable product, one must understand at least partially Asian mentality that is still shared in depth between nearly ALL Asian nations like China, Japan, Thailand, Vietnam etc... 

For their level of education (at least a lot more intense and deep than Western education), they certainly figured out that by "just listening" you won't be able to tell any differences between original one and knock-off that is 20x cheaper. To get even deeper idea, they do study 20 times HARDER for their academics so they can mock every Western ingenuine approach for profit. 

Nearly same applies to anyone who wants to purchase and terminate them for reselling. 

Unfortunately @juanmanuelfangioii your situation of losing millions because of that is self-evidently explainable. Technically everyone wants to live for the costs of the others, but those who do that for a lot less do take the upper hand and no matter how HARD you will try to go after those that make you lose money, I guarantee you won't find any success there... In any business, if you cannot rise bridge, you have to lower the river.

@roxy54 it’s not a point of contradiction, the rite way is to just not use anything but just the bare wire itself. I doubt even if I use bare wire & any connectors & play music in Mono. I don’t think I’ll hear the difference with my speakers, which are very efficient. See my stup for yourself.

@danmar123 

 "I’m a FIRM believer to get the most out of my system no matter what the cost would be."

You contradict yourself. If you won't spend $180.00, then obviously the cost matters very much. You can find a number of types of solid copper banana terminations on walmart.com for very cheap prices, less than a tenth of $180.00. I am only trying to point out that using inferior bananas is creating a bottleneck in the performance of your cables.

Also, your not speaking on deaf ears. I really don’t think I can hear the difference, but I did when I change the wire! I’m a FIRM believer to get the most out of my system no matter what the cost would be. I just can’t fathom getting, Furutech CF-202R & NCF for $600.00 or KLEI Classic Harmony Banana Plugs for $180.00. Also every connection in my system is treated with Stabilant 22. 😉

@roxy54 From my amp to my crossovers & then my speaker terminals, it's all brass. So I'll stay with what works for me. There's no getting around it.....

@danmar123 

What’s the difference? You must be kidding. First of all, those Nakamichi bananas are counterfeit. They don’t make them. I know that because I bought some of them myself a few years ago. Second, as you should know by now, everything makes a difference. Those bananas are made of brass not copper, and if they were copper, they would sound different depending on what they were plated with.

If the wire is as good as you say, I think it would deserve some good quality copper terminations.

@roxy54 , with nakamichi banana plugs. What's the difference?

@danmar123 

You don't mention how you terminated it or with what.

@mr_bill here you go;

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/100-New-FURUTECH-Flagship-OCC-HIFI_1600283542036.html?spm=a2756.order-detail-ta-bn-b.0.0.e7d12fc2ke9dUI

 I was running Monoprice 4/12 to my LaScala lls & was happy until I went with Furutech Flagship OCC HIFI Speaker Cable Fever grade, which is 2/12 wire. I noticed a sense of clarity & openness. Highly recommend.

@danmar123 

Which Ali Exp store did you buy the Furutech OCCC high end speaker cable from?

Bit of a contradiction from your August Post.  In August it was the best cable ever and come October you're getting ripped off? 

I purchased; FURUTECH Flagship OCC HIFI Speaker Cable Fever Grade Audio Cable from China & from here in the States, both equal lengths. The cable price I paid for in the States were 10x’s more then the cable from China. The bottom line is, that there’s no difference whatsoever between the two! Makes me wonder if we're all getting ripped off?

danmar123

331 posts

08-03-2023 at 02:20pm 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^;

last weekend I pulled the other cable, now both channels have the Furutech. I can't get over how good this cable is. Worth every penny, the best upgrade I've done in years! I just might rewire my surround speakers.. Down the Rabbit hole again! LOL

I purchased; FURUTECH Flagship OCC HIFI Speaker Cable Fever Grade Audio Cable from China & from here in the States, both equal lengths. The cable price I paid for in the States were 10x’s more then the cable from China. The bottom line is, that there’s no difference whatsoever between the two! Makes me wonder if we're all getting ripped off?

@sqml123 and it took you 8 years to make your first post LOL

i cannot believe this discussion lasted 1 year lol

@roxy54 I share the same impression: I doubt Nordost lost a penny from the counterfeits. Two different ends of the market. Budget brands, on the other hand, might have lost a few customers.

I've been using a lot of those Odin counterfeits but have since switched to Xangsane pure silver which is a phenomenal cable (interconnects and digital cable)

Still using "Odin" power cables

I used Duelund speaker cable for a while but I was not fully satisfied. The similarly priced "Valhalla 1" SC sounds much better to my ears. But at least there's no fake Nordost branding on it :)

@ghdprentice 

I think that we've been through all of that a long time ago, and I never said that it was good to use another company's name. What I did say was that I don't believe that Nordost lost a penny from the illegal use of their name because they are two different customers.

Anyway, I don't have any interest in those counterfeit products now, but I do think that Xangsane makes great interconnects and digital cables for a very low price. I hope that clarifies things for you.

OP “…I think that members should be aware that there are legitimate, well-built cables from Chinese manufacturers,”

+1 Don’t support companies directly creating forgeries. That really makes you ethically complicit… much better to buy a brand that creates their own.

@deep_333 

I agree having upgraded my entire system about a year ago with Ali-E cables (mostly Odin 2 and Odin 1 Coax, only because I haven't found it in Odin 2). Keep in mind Ali-E is word of mouth, whereas the much more expensive cable companies spend a small fortune in monthly advertising, promoting at audio shows, long term loans to reviewers...

Well, my "Valhalla/Heimdall" speaker cables have arrived 10 days ago;

they are not fully broken In yet but I can already say those are the best speaker cables I've tried in my system. Great stuff!!!

The actual Nordost Valhalla was replaced by Odin which was replaced by Odin 2, I bought (Ali version) after quite a few months, I tried the Odin 2 Gold, which added some much needed warmth in my all SS system. I also have the Odin digital between transport and DAC. It is amazing, but would love to try Odin Gold, but no one seems to make it

I've just ordered the chinese "Valhalla" speaker cable. They call it "Valhalla" but it's in fact an exact copy of the Heimdall speaker cable. The wire seems identical to the  point that one could believe both come from the same factory. Of course it isn't the case.

They are supposed to be exceptionally good for the price and even in absolute terms.

There is no fake branding on the cable, no sign of the Nordost logo, just an identical wire. 

Looking forward to receive it!

Can't comment on authentic Nordost Odin 2 as have no experience with it, but as I posted upthread, I compared the Chinese Odin Gold RCA interconnects (2 sets) in a friends system directly with authentic/real Nordost Valhalla V1.

In that system the Chinese OG replaced the Valhalla 1 running from an Allnic Phono Preamp (can't recall the model number but it's higher up in the Allnic range and retailing at around $10K I believe) to an Allnic L-10000 linestage and then from the L-10000 to a Bryston 14B Cubed power amp. Turntable was a Clearaudio Innovation with Universal Tonearm and Clearaudio's top of the line MM cartridge. Speakers were big B&W floorstander Diamonds. A very nice system. 

This was not a blind test but rather sighted. There were 4 of us there and the 3 others felt the Valhalla 1 was a bit more detailed (but in no way really embarrassing the Chinese Odin Gold). That was possible but I felt that the detail may have been more distortion related than real and I thought the Chinese Odin Gold had a much quieter, blacker background and sounded noticeably smoother, more refined and more natural than the real Valhalla 1. 

And that was before I cryoed the Chinese Neardost and had it burned in on an Audiodharma cable cooker, which improved it further (more extended at both frequency extremes, more detailed midrange while still retaining all the smoothness, and a much wider soundstage). I really felt that the real Valhalla 1 would end up giving me listening fatigue over longer sessions. 

Cost on the Neardost Odin Gold for two pairs of RCA's: about $80. Cost for the two sets of real Valhalla 1 purchased a few years ago used: about $3,000 as I recall. 

The Chinese Odin Gold was not only competitive: I wouldn't trade it even for the real Valhalla, unless of course I was going to pawn off the real Valhalla on some poor unsuspecting sucker for some ridiculous price and then just buy another couple of sets of the Chinese OG. 

Just another experience that those with an open mind might want to consider.

I have no experience with any Aliexpress Neardosts other than the Odin Gold RCA interconnects so the rest of the stuff may well be junk, but I really like the Chinese Odin Golds, and sold off some much more expensive IC's-but not in the same cost league as the Nordost Valhalla's-after buying just one set of the fake Odin Golds to experiment with. I then bought 5 more sets to completely outfit both systems in the house and pocketed about $500 after selling 2 pairs of reasonably well known IC's that I was using in the main system from a North American manufacturer.

FWIW, I have a couple of friends who are also using the Audiocrast ribbon speaker cables mentioned above who also really like them. I think I'd take a run at those if I felt like changing speaker cables, as opposed to the fake Odin Gold speaker cables which seem to get a bit more of a lukewarm review. But I'm reasonably happy with my current speaker cables so will sit tight. 

@ghdprentice already did read post prior to your post. 👌

@tksteingraber

Could you clarify something? You are saying  Audiocrast speaker cables sound better than authentic $20K + speaker cables?
 

I personally had some authentic Nordost Odin 2 interconnects in my system for a couple weeks… and I find it hard to believe some $75 knock off are competitive. I did buy some Odin 2 knock offs… and they in no way competed with the real thing.

@mr_bill Yes sound labs…just to clarify they were Chinese copy Odin 2 speakers cables not the real deal of course!

@tksteingraber 

That is quite an endorsement - thanks!

From the Sound Labs Store?

Ok back to how the cables sound and compare….gave the Audiocrast (Valhalla like copy) ribbon speaker cable a try.  Build quality and connectors very good.  Sound quality is great and beats the pair of Odin 2 speaker cables I was using by quite a bit. Also a step in the right direction that these don’t use the  Nordost  brand name but the  ribbon cables are identical.  For those who are critical of Chinese quality you need to actually listen to them or zip it.  Their  cables sound fantastic and at very nice price points. Enjoying another step up in SQ.

US $45.00  25％ Off | Audiocrast 7N OCC Flat Silver Plated Speaker Cable HIFI Loudspeaker Cable Spade to Spade Y Plug Left Right Channel Cable
https://a.aliexpress.com/_m0sQOTM

Strike a pose... 

What does that mean?

Strike a pose... 

@musiclover1 

I've tried something similar before the custom cables.

Those were from Hong Kong. If it sounds good to you, don't let anyone tell you otherwise!

YES ALL EXCEPT THE ODIN GOLD SPEAKER CABLE