If you say so. Try staying on point what is the title of this thread?
If you want to talk about the high price of Cardas or Transparent cable I am sure there is a thread on it.
Counterfeit Chinese Cables
I thought that I would write this for those who are curious about one of the many counterfeit Chinese interconnect cables that are available these days. I know that there have been threads about the subject before, and I was always curious because they seem to be such a bargain. I don't really recall much about what any members actually said about the performance of these counterfeit cables, and I didn't look back and do any research, but a couple of months ago there was a thread that came around to discussing the quality of Chinese made components, and oldhvymec said something that made sense to me.
He said that people that say that what they are making is junk should consider that much of what is in our gear, and a lot of our American brands are actually manufactured there. I decided shortly after that that I would take the chance on a set of interconnects, because I suspected that the interconnects going from my pre to my amp were the weak link and needed upgrading. The interconnects going from my DAC to my pre were Kimber Select which are very good, but the other set were LAT International (now defunct) which had cost $500.00 when new, but I had reason to believe they were lacking because I have one of their digital cables that turned out to be very poor sounding in comparison to others I own.
I decided on a one meter pair of counterfeit Nordost Odin interconnects for a total of $104.00 from Aliexpress. I received them a couple of weeks later. They appeared to be well made, and the locking fake WBT rca's were very impressive and are very tight.
First impressions after installing them were light, thin sound, lacking bass. Each couple of days brought improvements, but from the beginning I noticed that they were quieter. Now, weeks later, I can say that they are drastically better that the LAT's in every way. Detail and ambience are much better, but it's the focus and separation of instruments that is most noticeable.
I have no way of knowing if they are really a copy of the Nordost design, but I am impressed enough that I am going to try a counterfeit Nordost digital cable.
Obviously, this isn't a comparison that is useful to most, because there probably isn't anyone here using the LAT's, and everything is system dependent. I just wanted to relay my positive experience.
920 responses
You really need to learn more about the people you are putting down. Very few who assign the term snake oil care about the price that is charged for cables. They care about the lies that are told to sell them. Short of bias, I have no idea how you could arrive at the conclusion you have arrived at.
Your attempt to play the race card is very weak. It is a statistical reality that the vast majority of counterfeit electronics and related equipment comes from China. That is a factor of lax laws, and more importantly lax enforcement of intellectual property, especially foreign owned, but it is even an issue with their domestic IP. Their own companies have a difficult issue with stolen IP as well. IP theft is rampant there. It is a reality that ethics in business in China is not at the level that it is in many other countries and not just advanced economies. There is no point in my doing a dissertation on it in a forum. There are a ton of researched articles on this already. |
What we have here is case of good old American marketing deception. Man, I should be living for free based on all the freebies handed out by Americans. Marketeers count on suckers, based on continuation of falsehoods stated in marketing, no lack of them. Suddenly, people at least getting something for their money, and good value proposition based on posts here, are the suckers, and the sellers thieves. I think some have the whole equation mixed up here.
@theaudioamp They don't care about the price charged for them, preposterous, the anger goes up in correlation to price, Go through endless threads here for proof of that. Doesn't even make sense based on logic, I'd be far more pissed spending a $1k fake vs $100 fake.
I won't even argue in regard to the fact Chinese play by different rules, mentioned that in prior post. US made decision to play this game knowing full well the rules of game. Short term profitability and regard only for investor class by global capitalists made this happen. This is war of capitalism, no chivalry, total war, this is always the way it goes with humans.
Suddenly all this concern with ethics and principles, and all over some relatively cheapo cables. Is this really the line in sand you're drawing, those lines were obliterated long ago. You all better get real, understand we live in global world, never going back to this protectionist isolated realm of self sufficiency. The MAGA world is pure delusion. |
@thecarpathian I can roll with that. |
@juanmanuelfangioii I did that, for years. I've spent what (for me) is a small fortune on various EU and US brands. My last interconnects were 300$ a pop and, having a tri-amped system, costs add rather fast. Then one day you try a 50$ knockoff cable and it sounds better than any cable you've heard in 25 years hobby, crushing your existing cable, and being cheaper to booth? Well, let me tell you, you BUY IT, and you buy MORE OF IT. We only live once. Why can't a EU-made interconnect sold for 300$ sound as good, I don't know, maybe it's time we ask the cable companies why 300$ in Europe buys you 2 feet of ENTRY LEVEL CABLE. |
Just for fun after reading this thread… and having had a real set of Odin 2 interconnects in my home for a few weeks I ordered a pair. They arrived a few minutes ago. Says made in USA. I guess if I was ordering these second hand and wasn’t familiar with the real ones… how would I know they are not real? They are definitely lighter in weight. The wood blocks are much less well finished, the locking rca connectors are functional but don’t look like high quality. I am going to experiment with them on my headphone system when I have some time. |
How many cars/trucks/vans have you owned other than Fords? If even one other brand, then you basically bought a copy-cat. Even if I wasn’t now living on SS, justifying $2000+ for one meter pair of the real Nordost Odin 2 speaker cable would make ZERO sense to me: value for money rules my budget. My gut tells me you wouldn’t be here if you had the stupid money Nordost charges. The real Nordost speaker cables are flat/ribbon (many years ago I had Nordost Blue Heavens (also flat/ribbon) and they were a pain as they tended to curl up). Thankfully the knock-offs are conventional round. The best part is they sound significantly better that the well know high priced speaker cables they replaced |
I do take issue with this Chinese cable being marked as "Nordost Odin 2." I can’t say I know what the legalities are. Google, an American company, permits them to advertise this way and is happy to take their money. American capitalism at its . . best. I am confident that no one will think they are getting the "real" Nordost Odin 2 for the price being asked. While the cable and terminations look fine enough, the wooden rings that carry the false labeling seem crudely made compared to pictures of the real ones. So it’s a poor counterfeit. Nevertheless, as to my personal point of view I hold no brief for Nordost. I can buy a nice car for what they charge for a 1 meter pair of their Odin 2 interconnects. For the cable business generally, "ripoff" comes pretty close to describing their exploitation of the audiophile buyer IMO. And they’ve been doing it for a very long time.
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I admit to be a bit conflicted in buying a pair just for fun… although this is not stopping me from buying real ones. If I could afford them, I would probably buy real ones… but a full loom would cost roughly the same as my system, so that would be a hard sell. I swapped them in to my headphone system between my DAC and headphone amp. I had a pair of Harmonics Pro-Silway 2 before the switch (high quality “budget” ($600?, 25 years ago) interconnects (silver coated copper). I was expecting a notable shift to a bit more trebly sound. No, immediate noticeable change… pretty good for $50. I’ll have to hook them up to my break in system and see what they sound like with a couple hundred hours on them. |
Like it has been said times and again, the fake Nordost is not in competition with the real one for various reasons that have been pointed out in this thread. Unintendedly, it is doing a number on cables between $50 to $3k+, especially the Gold. Wish they had called it Neardost. That would have solved a lot of ethical and moral conflicts. I always thought that when it comes to cables, there is a certain level where real improvements are really a matter of opinion, personal taste and visual preferences. After trying a set of Neardost PCs in my AGD monos, I realize that I was wrong in at least one count: my current power cables had not reached that level yet. There were rooms for improvement. I will not name the cable that was replaced out of fairness for the manufacturer. |
I received one of the Chinese Odin 2 1-meter XLR interconnects today. They look pretty good. First listen... the soundstage shrunk quite a bit from what I am used to. The cable doesn’t sound bad, but I can tell it needs lots of break in before passing judgement. Again, I suppose that if I didn’t already have some very high-performance cables these might not be too bad. We'll see how/if they develop. ozzy |
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The products can be different at least in appearance depending on the store. For example, the Odin gold XLR from Nordost has the markings in black on one cable and white on the other. Only one store, RM Digital has it that way. All the other stores have the lettering the same color on both cables. The Gold PC screws are silver everywhere except RM Digital that has them in gold like Nordost. Are the differences only external and cosmetic? I don’t know. The price is also vastly different across the board. RM Digital being the most expensive. To see these details by the way, one needs to magnify the pictures a little. |
Not all are created the same on aliexpress. I have bought .5m power cables just for the plug connectors to make my own DIY power cables. Pics were the same but one seller sent a mat stainless finish with dull gold pins while another seller sent one wit a shiny stainless finish and shiny gold pins. Also, bought a 120v LPS and was sent a 240v LPS. Beware returns really are for the most part not an option. They string you along and rule in favor of the seller and require you to pay return shipping to China. That aside I have been blown away with the quality performance a value of the products they sell. |
Hi ozzy, I was hoping to use the same vendor you did to try out the (pseudo) Odin 2 interconnects. The Odin 2s look visually different depending on vendor. When I checked out the HIFI-DIY vendor on Aliexpress they did not sell the cables that I could find. Any chance I am looking at the wrong vendor? Thanks |
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You know this one thread is selling a bunch of their stuff. I bought a pair of single ended interconnects just to see what they sounded like. The only place they would fit was in my headphone system. They sounded pretty good. But to really evaluate a set of interconnects I needed a longer set of XLR. So I just bought a pair. These I can swap into my main system and test against my contemporary Transparent Ultra. Should be interesting. |
Yes, aside from the polarizing subject of the fake Nordost cables, I think that it's a great thing that other members are discovering the high quality, reasonably priced cables and interconnects that are available under different legitimate brand names from vendors on AliExpress and other Asian sites. There is risk involved because returns may be difficult/impossible, but the money involved is not much, and if members share information about specific cables they have bought, and from which vendor, which is already happening, then the risk will be minimized. |
