@ps SNL died 10 years ago. Show how significant you are.
Good night pops.
Counterfeit Chinese Cables
I thought that I would write this for those who are curious about one of the many counterfeit Chinese interconnect cables that are available these days. I know that there have been threads about the subject before, and I was always curious because they seem to be such a bargain. I don't really recall much about what any members actually said about the performance of these counterfeit cables, and I didn't look back and do any research, but a couple of months ago there was a thread that came around to discussing the quality of Chinese made components, and oldhvymec said something that made sense to me.
He said that people that say that what they are making is junk should consider that much of what is in our gear, and a lot of our American brands are actually manufactured there. I decided shortly after that that I would take the chance on a set of interconnects, because I suspected that the interconnects going from my pre to my amp were the weak link and needed upgrading. The interconnects going from my DAC to my pre were Kimber Select which are very good, but the other set were LAT International (now defunct) which had cost $500.00 when new, but I had reason to believe they were lacking because I have one of their digital cables that turned out to be very poor sounding in comparison to others I own.
I decided on a one meter pair of counterfeit Nordost Odin interconnects for a total of $104.00 from Aliexpress. I received them a couple of weeks later. They appeared to be well made, and the locking fake WBT rca's were very impressive and are very tight.
First impressions after installing them were light, thin sound, lacking bass. Each couple of days brought improvements, but from the beginning I noticed that they were quieter. Now, weeks later, I can say that they are drastically better that the LAT's in every way. Detail and ambience are much better, but it's the focus and separation of instruments that is most noticeable.
I have no way of knowing if they are really a copy of the Nordost design, but I am impressed enough that I am going to try a counterfeit Nordost digital cable.
Obviously, this isn't a comparison that is useful to most, because there probably isn't anyone here using the LAT's, and everything is system dependent. I just wanted to relay my positive experience.
920 responses
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Festivus was meant to be single day event, not 24/7 365 day celebration. This not example of American exceptionalism, becoming all too far common.
And so another candle came to Audiogon, just waiting to see how long before it burns itself out.
The truly exceptional always mindful of maintaining global view of every topic under review. Repeating same old rhetoric and provocations has no purpose other than to antagonize.
Even more on point, this is audio forum, infiltrators intent on injecting political grievance should limit their anger to audio topics, should be plenty of grievance to exercise here. We can have another snake oil cable thread, how fun! |
I watched the Cardas video. It was interesting but I must say, $10,000 for a four foot length of the Clear Beyound Speaker Cable???? I guess if you have $500,000+ invested in your system you could justify, and afford, 10K - 20K for a set of speaker cables. But for the average person? And is the impovement in sound, over a $1000 cable going to be that much? I have gone down this rabbit hole many times and can't honestly say I have ever heard a differnce. But that's just my experience. |
Sharing my experience with a fellow ’phile, he noted the Odin Gold PC might not be heavy enough gauge for the PLC and recommended a Chinese PC that is available from Amazon; 10ga single crystal copper, very high quality Rhodium plated plug 1.5m just $45 with 20% discount, shipped in 2 days, compared to the ~ 3 weeks from China!. I decided to try it on the dac/pre PS- absolutely no comparison, so Saturday I ordered another for my transport, which is scheduled to arrive today On entry level kit one may not notice much, but if your system, sans cables, is $3K +, Im confident you will be highly rewarded |
Wow, really dislike the personal attacks on this post. Actually, some are quite funny. I personally don’t have a problem with products made in china or any other third world country. That being said I choose to support products made in the USA whenever possible. For example , I won’t purchase Nike shoes for myself. My son however loves the product. His choice, not mine. |
Roxy54, It was very nice of you that you shared the information. I never tried any expensive cables in my system but you ignited my interest so I ordered several interconnects and a speaker cable. You probably expected some strong responses as there are people in these forums who think they need to be negative about the other countries, China in particular, in an attempt to prove their patriotism, but I am glad you took a risk. All the best, Lectronjh50 |
@juanmanuelfangioii I'd rather buy fake than start calling people names. I've replaced 100% of the cables in my system with fake Odin from AliExpress and couldn't be happier. Build quality is far ahead of anything that could be purchased for the same price or even 10X the price, and sound quality is simply stupendous. I'v put all my genuine VanDenHul Integration and various others to rest. There really isn't any comparison. They are the best cables I've ever tried in 25 years being in this hobby, by a (very) large margin. The price that high end companies are asking these days for mere pieces of wires has gone completely over the edge. I won't feel sorry for them. Besides, I strongly doubt anybody who has the means to buy the genuine Odin cables would ever buy anything from AliE, and I strongly doubt the fakes are hurting Nordost. Thank goodness there are still enough morons who believe anything has to cost 4 or 5 or 6 figures to sound half decent. A pair of fake Odin RCA cables costs between 50 and 150$ depending on length. A pair of the genuine is what... 15.000? 18.000? more? we aren't even comparing the same thing here. |
@axeis1 but is it really what this is about? We are not talking about a fake Louis Vuitton or a fake Rolex. There shouldn't be any "pride of ownership" involved. Those fake cables sound fantastic, and that's why people buy them. Who am I goin to brag around? The two audiophile friends that visit once a year? "Hey guys, look, I've got myself some Odin cables?" of course not. No one cares. They just sound great. |
I don’t believe anyone has a problem with someone trying to sell a product, especially a high value product that in your estimation also performs at a high level. That’s cool.
I can see why some have a problem that the person/organization doing so doesn’t have to be shady and use the name of another company who has worked hard, invested and built their brand. Its a very low character thing to do to sell your product, riding the coat tails of someone else’s work. In parts of the world, this practice is common place, which is unfortunate.
The way you describe it, its no big deal. I happen to agree with you that pride of ownership is a personal thing. My challenge with the whole exercise is they are using someone else’s name to profit from. They didnt have to do that. I know you must have a line where this practice is horrible right? @juanmanuelfangioii is rightly bothered by this practice because fake aviation parts put people’s lives at risk. Fake baby formula kills children. Fake pharma can as well. By purchasing “insignificant” fake items you see no harm but the practice emboldens “fakers” to follow the money and begin counterfeiting those things that can endanger lives. I get it, people are just trying to make a buck and those purchasing are just trying to save a buck. The slippery slope is a result of those that partake in either side of a transaction like this. |
I have no problem with knock-offs. It’s done all the time, even referencing the real thing. Walmart advertises its own brand of small coated aspirin, looking exactly like a Bayer, as "Compare to Bayer." Some of our fellow ’philes don’t care for knock-offs and seem to take personal offense. I’m happy with my Chinese sourced speaker cable that looks exactly like a Kimber 12TC. One industry insider has suggested it is the same and from the same factory as Kimber’s. It costs one tenth as much. With that in mind I do take issue with the Chinese interconnect being marked as "Nordost Odin 2." It is an excellent cable. I can’t say I know what the legalities are. Google, an American company, permits them to advertise this way and is happy to take their money. American capitalism at its . . best. I am confident that no one will think they are getting the "real" Nordost Odin 2 for the price being asked. While the cable and terminations look fine enough (though the XLR connectors are very light in weight), the wooden rings that carry the false labeling seem crudely made compared to pictures of the real ones. So it’s a poor counterfeit. The use of it puts no one in any jeopardy and I do check the cables for conductivity and shorts before using. Nevertheless, as to my personal point of view I hold no brief for Nordost. I can buy a very nice car for what they charge for a 1 meter pair of their Odin 2 interconnects. For the cable business generally, "ripoff" comes pretty close to describing their exploitation of the audiophile buyer IMO. And they’ve been doing it for a very long time. |
@rolox remember that when a plane crashes and kills people because an unscrupulous aircraft parts distributor or airline operator unwittingly or with prior knowledge installs counterfeit flap and alerion actuators rod ends. Said part fails and the aircraft crashes. Remember that when a repair shop buys what appear to be premium brake pads and hardware from a dealer on Amazon and said break pads delaminate from their backings and fail, Said SUV fly’s through an intersection and takes out 2 cars causing damage to personal property and putting lives at risk. If me calling you a name will cause a person inclined to buy this stuff pause before supporting these activities then the better. Now go enjoy your fake cables from a country that had threatened our Speaker of The House.
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Is it being argued that buying a "fake" cable from a Chinese distributor is going to kill someone, somewhere in the world? Sounds similar to the plot from the movie, The Box.
Just what's with all the alarmist rhetoric going on? Remember back when Hussein was ruling Iraq? Everyone and anyone who wanted to have a job had to be a member of the Ba'athist party or you'd starve. That same narrow way of thinking led to the US not employing anyone who was affiliated with them (a stupid standard) which led to a massively disaffected and out of work police force and army which spawned ISIS. But hey, we sure did show them, didn't we? Now, fast forward to present day goings on and you have an entire country run by an autocrat who takes a piece of all the action and who has some pretty horrible human rights practices but the general population is just trying to get by. Some of those people are hard working stiffs stuck in that system trying to make a living where there are no laws regarding copyright protections. It's been that way since, forever, and is just their way of life. And some just happen to have very high work standards and pride of work just like here, in the states, and they can turn out some incredibly well made product at a price that's too good to pass up for those who want high quality at a price they can afford. That puts us in this present day, simplistic argument that's not going to make anyone happy as no one is going to budge and neither side should. Go with your own beliefs and moral standards and to those who can rise above and see through the BS, be happy with your choices. And yes, they shouldn't brand their product as the real thing but in the end, it's been repeatedly pointed out that no one is falling for it. Googling the name just gets one to the site with the product they want and that's about it. On those sites are plenty of other similar makes with completely different and original names with some made by the very same people who make the knock offs. How do the naysayers respond to that? Would that satisfy and quench their hate? All the best, |
Don’t see many counterfeit audio cables causing a lot of plane crashes and car accidents. Question; when they counterfeit an aileron, do they always label it an 'alerion'? Juan, your writing style and late night personality changes are very similar to a recently banned member. C’mon, tell us your banned username...
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Those plane parts that Juan is speaking about are supposed to be subjected to rigorous testing prior to installation I'm sure, and I would think that at least in a country like ours that has pretty strict regulations regarding aviation that there would be regulations regarding sourcing. None of this has much if any importance regarding speaker cable and interconnects. Lives are not at stake, and as we have said before Juan, I'm sure you own plenty of goods that are supporting the Chinese economy. None of us likes that reality, but it is the way it has been for quite a while now. |
Wow another Typo. So what? And I am me. Roxy you are wrong and are clueless on 8031 certs. Also it is the principal that counterfeiting is supported. Do you think these people are only making knockoff cables... Do what you like you are who you are and I pointed that out earlier. Have great rest of your day. You all are so special.
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And like there's never been US made knockoffs, counterfeit and fake items.
For some people its like every citizen of some country they don't like is the worst. And every American exceptional? How about some from all countries are exceptionally bad or good, vast majority somewhere in between. Since when did the govt. of any country define every single person in that country. Funniest thing is, if I were to judge US individuals in this manner, conservatives would suddenly turn into liberals what with Democrat President and majority Congress.
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"Wow another Typo. So what? And I am me. Roxy you are wrong and are clueless on 8031 certs. Also it is the principal [sic] that counterfeiting is supported. Do you think these people are only making knockoff cables [sic] ... Do what you like [sic] you are who you are and I pointed that out earlier. Have [sic] great rest of your day. You all are so special." You are certainly different: principle / ? / . / a
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The only thing that's changed since US started playing this rigged game, with full knowledge of it's rigging, is sudden awakening to realization China now real competitor to American hegemony over global affairs.
In 1980's I recall telling people they were about to see the greatest redistribution of wealth the world had ever seen. Very few took this seriously, they needed to believe in American exceptionalism, the idea we no longer needed manufacturing, we'd supply the brains rather than brawn. |
@roxy54 , That typo comment was directed at me... |
@roxy54 do not flatter yourself. Nor you Tom. |
@ps 🤣 |
@juanmanuelfangioii AHAHAHA
Come on, give me a break. You just CANNOT put fake baby food and counterfeit 15.000$ high-end audio cables in the same argument. Counterfeit cables that are built by the same Chinese companies who build their own original "brands", and probably the same companies who do an awful lot of OEM work for the rest of the world. They are not the same people who make fake baby food and fake medication. A little bit of nuance wouldn’t go amiss. I’m just an audiophile with a low budget but a big DIY (mostly) system. I’ll buy whatever sounds best that I can afford, if that means buying knockoffs then so be it. I would probably prefer if the cables were’nt fake-branded (I actually like the "Nordeast" imaginary brand some of us use to describe them, they should use it) but l won’t lose sleep over it. They use it to attract people’s curiosity, and it works. No one ever got fooled into thinking they were buying the real thing - because this is NOT baby food.
Ethics and integrity? I sure hope you’re a paragon of virtue yourself, to be so judgmental to others... but mostly I’ve noticed this type of excessive reactions towards counterfeit cables (and towards most cheap things coming from china) comes, in our hobby at least, from a mix of audio snobbery and basic racial prejudice.
"NoW Go eNjOy YoUr fAkE CablEs" >> I will, and I’m actually going to order the new "Gold" version to compare it to my Silver ones :-) . Apparently, it sounds quite different, and some find it even better. Loads of fun for us the poor! ^^ |
@rolox , Talk about a coincidence, while I was looking at the Neardost cables I decided to buy a Rolox watch! |
The people who advocate for and look the other way w.r.t. counterfeit goods and stealing IP (music, videos, etc.) are the first to scream when they government does not give them handouts, or when taxes go up, or when the plant they are working for shuts down and manufacturing moves.
People think that the 1% is out to get them and that they are powerless. They are partially right, because they are too busy screwing each other for the 1% to ever worry about them.
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I bought audio quest cables once I had to re-terminate them when I removed the pretty cable cover under was the cheap AQ wire they bulk discounted I showed this to the AQ sales rep he just smiled at me. Now Cardas are wonderful to deal with as has been Nordost. I once had a long run of costly Nordost chewed a bit by my puppy I sent them to Nordost they repaired free of charge. |
@theaudioamp You assume these people principled. On what grounds? Nah, they're just picking and choosing, not consistent. Or, is it they're principled due to assumption they have truth on their side? We've already established the counterfeit cables are not theft, consumers not being misled. Take the sellers of these items to court and prove harms if it indeed theft. Until adjudicated in court these sellers not guilty and/or involved in theft. And guess what, these cables have been around for years, no one's being fooled, they know exactly what they're getting.
To repeat, the only fraud being perpetuated is from those selling fakes, passing them off a real, selling at price of real item. |
@rolox As I stated before, nothing to do with race or country. Yes I do live my life to the code of ethics and integrity. The money you spent on fakes could have bought a quality cable from a small North American or EU manufacturer that is not stealing IP and or Trademarks.
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People are so entitled that they will buy fake Nordost incorporating stolen intellectual property, as opposed to something made competently and without stolen IP. They feel they are "entitled" to have access to this intellectual property even though they have no paid for it.
@sns , these "companies" are taken to court all the time by those that are harmed (the companies owning the IP). Individuals rarely are due to the low cost/benefit.
I personally find it disgusting the hoops people go through to justify this is okay. But maybe if you have never created anything of value, you won't understand. |
Why do we have to go over and over the difference between fakes and these knock off or counterfeit cables. The fakes are theft, the knock offs or counterfeit are a known, people are purchasing with full knowledge, eyes wide open. Again, if there are harms or patent infringement, prove it in court.
And how do you know these cables not quality, many posts here attest to value proposition.
Its quite transparent much of this antagonism towards these sellers is due to nationalist biases. No anger amongst the snake oil proponents for 'theft' by snake oil manufacturers and sellers charging big bucks, and all this anger towards foreign sellers hardly making a buck selling these relatively low priced cables! Something other than rip off of consumers at work here. |
