Considering simplifying my system... talk me down (or whatever)

This comes a little late in the discussion, but as they say, better late...

When I retired at 70, I too faced the reality of 40 years of upgrading, tweaking and adjusting my music system. I ended up with what I considered an extraordinary system for the medium-size, high-ceiling room it was in--the Magnepan/REL, Bryston, Cary, Esoteric combo, with occasional help from ZSystems, was accurate and satisfying to my ears. (I have two discrete systems--one exclusively digital, the other analogue--in two separate locations in the house. But I digress...)

The problem was, even looking at these electronics could be intimidating to someone who just wanted to hear good music out of something other than a TV or a computer. So when I recently turned 71 I decided to stop fiddling with the stuff and simplify the setup--I replaced the imposing Magnepans with an ancient pair of refurbished, 2-way Advents (c.1972), driven by a pair of Bryston 4BSTs that I love, along with a McIntosh C52 pre and a new Marantz Ruby SACD player. Granted, a bit of the precision and clarity of the Maggies is gone, but the sound is a tad warmer, fuller and, well, more human. (The simple equalizer built into the C52 allows minor tonal adjustments if needed, but the SACD analogue playback quality from the Marantz is superb.) Remotes allow me to control almost everything from the couch.

What I’ve found to be more significant, however--don’t pooh-pooh this--is the wife factor. Since she learned which four buttons to push and not to play with the equalizer, my wife has become quite comfortable choosing her own music, turning the system on and listening alone. I once found her sitting, transfixed, with tears in her eyes from the beauty of what she was hearing.

Despite the very minor quibbles I might have with the current system, knowing that my wife can honestly enjoy music at a legitimate audiophile level without being intimidated by the electronics makes it worth every dime and every minute I’ve spent on it. It’s worth a thought. Thanks for the note. Jerry

Simplest to not simplify your system if it works.  It might be anything but simple and set you off on the upgrade path again

I suggest you look into the Bakoon integrated amps.Unfortunately none have inbuilt phono stages but they are compact minimalist sort of amplifiers and have incredibly natural and pure sound.They also sound superb with high sensitivity speakers like Klipsch and Tannoy.They do not sound like any other SS amp you have heard because they do not operate like any other SS amp.They are much closer to a really good SET amp-being current drive and having high output impedance but also using the unique Bakoon Satri circuit.They are by far the best amplifier I have ever heard for reproducing piano.They do tintinnabulation in a way that I have never heard before from an audio system.
I use the 35 watt Satri 5521 but even the cheaper 15 watt ones sound superb.Just to confuse you there are Japanese made Bakoons and Korean made ones.I have only used the Japanese ones.For me they are the ultimate minimalist package because they cut to the essence of what is beautiful in music and dispense with even the slightest hint of grunge or timing smear.

Maybe you are telling yourself "simplying" but really what you are feeling is the need for a change, but can’t put your finger on it?


Unrelated to audio, I can remember when I got my first digital SLR. I took the film camera out of the bag and put it in the drawer. At least initially, I did not want the temptation of grabbing it. 11 years later, having never come out of the drawer, I put it on Ebay. Over that time, several digital SLRs went through my hands, each bringing new fun to the hobby.

Maybe you shouldn’t look at this as a time of simplification, but a time of exploration? What new ways can you find to enjoy the hobby of audio and music listening?

At 68, I share your sentiment. Like my wife, I have a hard time letting go of things I like. Recently I moved from separates to a Rogue Integrated tube, only because it was past time for my most loved 33 year old Audible Illusions Pre. to be sent in for re-cap and up-grades, even though it still performed like a champ. I do enjoy the good sound and simplicity of using the Rogue Integrated. It does have a built in decent phono stage, so have come to believe that downsizing from separates too integrated, doesn't necessarily mean a bad trade off. If I ever have to be concerned about space, I could very comfortably live with a good integrated......Jim

Keep it for as long as possible!  Rest assured that if you do have to downsize, there are many fine options no matter which route you take, and that will be another chapter in your audiophile journey. You ought to be excited actually.  You have a great system already and all you need to do now is enjoy it.  When the time comes to move on, well that will be an exciting journey as well.

I've gone down a similar road with the modified Klipshorns, tractrix horns, changed out all drivers and internal wiring. I went with Crites crossovers, which I modded with Jupiter VT, Audyn True Copper Max capacitors, all Duelund wiring, point to point wiring, binding posts.  Klipschorns are certainly magical when modded and used with proper partnering equipment!
As for downsizing, I'd be careful. Not saving a whole lot of complication simply changing out integrated for separates. I'm getting near retirement age and my system has grown more complicated with computer digital now being my main source. I have an incredible mess of various digital pieces of equipment, interconnecting wire and linear power supplies. It seems I love the stimulus of the steep learning curve diy computer audio requires.
Perhaps someday when physical limitations intrude, I may have to simplify. I just wonder if you're really seeking to simplify or maybe just wanting to try out something new. I suspect your system is already pretty optimized, many changes will only be lateral. My only advice is to try out a SET amp if you're insistent on change. SET amps are simply wonderful with Klipschorns, bring out all the best attributes of Klipschorns.  Illusion of real performers in room, wow!  Good luck with whatever direction you take.

Unless you plan on moving it, what could be simpler than doing nothing?

I'm 83.5 and have been working on downsizing with limited success for several years.  The real downsized setup is an Ayre A7e integrated, Codex DAC with microRendu that plays files sent via Ethernet from a Mac Mini by Roon.  The speakers are KEF LS50s.  The sort of downsized setup is Ayre QX-5 digital hub that plays files sent via Ethernet from an iMac, KX-5 DSD disco player, KX-5/20 preamp, and VX-5/20 amp.  The speakers are KEF Ref 1s.  I think the ultimate downsize when we move to a local retirement complex will be a merger of the two:  Ayre QX-5 for streaming, DX-5 DSD disco player, A7E or AX-5 integrated, KEF Ref 1s.

I don't know what your finances permit, but you might just try something in home for a while before you sell any of your current gear.  Several online dealers have 30-day return policies, and you can always buy a used component and then resell it if it's not an improvement over what you have.  My personal suggestion would be the Primaluna Dialogue Premium HP with KT150 tubes.  One of the advantages of the Primaluna is that it's auto-biasing, and it take a wide range of tubes.  Regardless of what you do, enjoy the journey!

pinkyboy—You've got the right idea, but your scope is off. When I reached age 82, in 2012, we concluded that it was time for us to simplify and downscale. So we moved 12 miles from our suburban bayside house into a modest but adequate condo that's located in the core of our pleasant small town—and just 1 mile from a fine hospital.

That move necessitated giving up our existing audio system, composed of big floor-standing speakers and giant 400 Watt power amplifier, preamps, TT, tape deck, tuner, et al., and transitioning to a far smaller system that would be appropriate for our new condo living room.

After some over-simplified trials that proved inadequate, I settled on BBC-type mini-monitor main speakers that sit on the fireplace mantle + a pair of JL Audio E-Sub e110 self-powered subwoofers that hide in the front corners. I use a passive preamp that feeds an electronic crossover, which then splits the feed (at 96 Hz) between the main power amp and the two self-powered subs. I use only two sources: a high quality CD player and a FM-HD tuner (highly upgraded) that's always tuned to a classical music station. The sound is truly glorious, and clearly better than I've ever done before. (And I've been building hi-fi systems since 1954.) A NOTE: The condo LR is only 16' x 23', but it has a 12 foot ceiling. WOW! That really helps!

So stick with what you've got for as long as you're in your present home. The time to dump your system is when you downsize your entire environs. Then restart afresh; see what fits.

Been having the same thoughts. Dynaco and C-J tubes my whole life. Too many wires, too many LPs, too many CDs.

But I'm only 71 and going to give it 9 more years. Congrats on your milestone!

I haven't read the full thread, so maybe this was answered, but WHY??? You use your TT and have a phono stage that you will probably want to keep. Then the only simplifying you will be doing is to change out the pre and power amp for an integrated. There are some great ones out there now, but to get something equal to or better than what you already have would hardly be cost effective. If you are just in an upgrade mood and want something new, then I guess it makes sense to look at some integrated amps, but if not just keep what you have.

The Klipsch factory was using a Cayin integrated for good reason, there is no need to look further. I too have an A-88T. It can drive almost any speaker to satisfying levels. Its transparency, detail and soundstaging are on-par with many expensive, separates-comprised systems I’ve heard. Get one of these or its KT-88 brethren, adjust the bias to 400mV and live happily ever after. I use mine with Heresy IIIs.

Contact Steve Leung of VAS and ask him about Cayin/Klipsch synergy

Don't do it, most people that simplify are saying they are giving up on this hobby. You will in the end join the ranks of people that let go of a system that may have taken years to assemble and that was a source of great pleasure to be replaced with something that at best is mediocre in comparison.

Congrats on your longevity and superb hearing! As a lifelong musician, my early days in a rock n roll band have robbed me of a fair bit of my auditory acuity, so the following comments should be taken with however many grains of salt might be appropriate. Having said that, you mentioned a “Cayin something-or-other.” This piqued my interest. I am a very satisfied owner of a Cayin A88t integrated tube amplifier. It is currently driving a pair of Martin Logan Motion 40’s (ML haters be damned lol). To my admittedly somewhat compromised ears, this combination satisfies all listening requirements from vintage jazz and classical to classic rock and modern hip-hop, and is a stone-cold bargain for the price (it also satisfies my room size limitations). Add a decent phono preamp, and you’re good to go. Just a little food for thought. Best of luck in your pursuit!

@ mtdining

there are two kinds of high end audio companies - those who invest heavily in research and development (think Wilson Audio, Ayre, Spectral) and those who invest primarily in marketing.

There are also two types audiophiles; gullible putzes like yourself, and just putzes like me ;-)
Wilson audio wrote the book on BS, LOL…

I am genuinely grateful to each one who has taken the time to thoughtfully post here.  You have jump-started my thought processes, and prodded me back to the listening room.  Yep, this is one really good sounding system.  

@cat345 :  Thank you for your reply.  When I first put Klipschorns in my home about three decades ago, I was certainly disappointed in the imaging although, overall, the sound was quite wonderful.  My second pair (just a mere 20 years ago!) was no better.  But with my current pair, the imaging is absolutely superb: the soundstage is broad and the "placement" of voices and instruments is excellent.  I never knew that the venerable "K-horns" could sound like these. 

I attribute the improvement to ALK's extreme slope networks (120 db/octave).  Sure, the tractrix mid horn and the TAD drivers certainly do their part, but I'm crediting the networks with the heavy lifting.   

@mrdecibel, I am well aware that Klipschorns are giants and can blow away little Harbeths any day but still, there are things that small speakers can do (imaging, tonality) that large speakers cannot reproduce as well. That could be an interesting change for pinkyboy.

Happy Birthday!
I loath the idea of any audiophile having to downgrade his/her system. You’ve reached a point where you’re satisfied with your system. How often does that happen? Please keep your system and continue to enjoy it until your situation changes. 
A change in your situation could put you in close quarters with others who may not appreciate your music. At such time, invest in a quality set of Stax over-ear headphones; not as pleasing but still enjoyable. 
If you have a wicked sense of humour, as I like to think I do, then ... in those beautiful speakers. 
Good listening. 

@cat345....Really ? A turbo designed set of Klipschorns, replaced by the Harbeths you recommended ? You need to listen to a pair of properly set up, properly driven Khorns. However, to each his / her own. Enjoy ! MrD.

@mtdining  

Thank you for mentioning that Luxman.  It may very well wind up on my short audio bucket list!  And, after reading through this thread a second time, I may rethink a few things.  :)  IE: maybe four, large, heavy and hot black boxes full of tubes is something I really can do without after all.  :)

To OP, I'm eager to learn of your decision. Best of luck.  

I just turned 60 and for the first time in 30 plus years, I have no CJ tube preamp. I recently got a Luxman Class A integrated amp. I love it. It even has a nice phono preamp section. My wife can use it (and the remote).
One thing I have gleaned is that there are two kinds of high end audio companies - those who invest heavily in research and development (think Wilson Audio, Ayre, Spectral) and those who invest primarily in marketing. The latter get touted all over the internet and in magazines, the former make really, really good equipment!  I am certainly not a fan of Prima Luna, (or Magico) - If you listen, you likely will not be either.

I have simplified I had amp and preamp and phono preamp sold them for a good amount of money and bought  me a pass labs and it is fantastic

Give Line Magnetic amps a shot.......they r wonderful.  Their SET amps make great partners to high efficiency speakers.  I own the 518ia w devore 0/93 and it is magical.
I hope when I am 80 that I have ur hearing and affinity for great music.

Hi pinkyboy, I would downsize everything including the speakers. A pair of Harbeth P3ESR, a Simaudio ACE + a Qobuz subscription should keep your ears happy for years!

DO NOT DO IT.
If there were reasons that mandated it, yes and only then.
Been there, done that @66. Thankfully I did not sell off the big rig in my attempt. 

When I first read your post I thought, yea good idea. But after reading some of the other posts, I think you might want to wait a while or at least slow it down. The last thing you want to do now is give up something that you spent so much time perfecting and enjoying. I'll bet some of your items have sentimental value to you also. Congratulations on turning 80.

It's great to be happy with what you have, but why not make the changes you will eventually need NOW, when you can take your time and create ANOTHER great system?

I'm in the process of simplifying my system and it's going very well, without any loss of sound quality. I found a great deal on an integrated Esoteric F-05. Luxman makes an equally good product. One less expensive power cord and interconnect also makes this cost effective. 

I also got rid of my headphone amplifier after I learned that you can connect your headphones to the second pair of speaker taps. No danger of "blowing them up" - speakers are speakers - I just lower the volume a bit. I ended up with a few extra bucks in my pocket.

I’m 40 so I don’t know how much value my comments may have.  Another member asked what’s your goal in simplifying.  Less boxes, cables? Lower cost? What about budget?
I’m all in favor of simple.  My dad has an awesome system but it’s very complicated. I remember how awesome it sounded and how impossible it was to work.  Perhaps there was some strategy in there to ward off his kids from the system.  
Now, as a dad of 4 little ones I want them (and my wife) to enjoy music too.  To me, that means they can actually make it work.  
I like wsrrsw’s comments.  
3 recommendations I have along these lines: Gold Note IS 1000. You can find these used on AGon for $3k. It has all you could want in one box.  Second one is a Vinnie DiRossi LIO, it’s modular.  You can add and subtract capabilities as you wish.  Fully loaded can get quite high, $10k. Splitting the difference I would recommend a Naim supernait 3 which has a phone stage within the integrated amp, $4500.

Keep enjoying the music and the hobby.

I worked in the moving and storage business in Atlanta for years, half the time as the GM for a smaller company, and the other half as Senior VP of sales and marketing for a large premium service oriented company. There are 6 million people in the area, some with 50 million dollar houses. There are celebrities, corporate state-to-state relocations, well-to-do people who have too much stuff, art collectors, etc. We moved people in the Witness Relocation program, lions for Zoo Atlanta, multi-million dollar art collections, and your next door neighbor. I am about to turn 59 and realize that I have too much stuff. If you don't downsize your system, then definitely downsize everything else. My first real pair of speakers were Cornwalls back around 1980. I now have KEF Reference 3's that I want to sell and have advertised. I'm going to find some decent bookshelf speakers and use my subs. If I move to a different place, then I won't have to carry as much. So in my old ranch house with 14 rooms, do I really need 8 systems? It's nice to have music everywhere, running on SONOS, but I need to take my own advice and go leaner and meaner. Lighter weight is better. Good luck.

As mentioned Luxman, Accuphase or the Asthetix Mimas integrated where you can add a DAC and Phono Stage.  I heard the Asthetix amps  (not the Mimas) at RMAF and they sounded very nice.

@gratefuleric

+1
While my bi-amped tube separates still sound better, I will say, that given enough break-in time, the Peachtree Nova is a damn good unit. I've got the 150. Clean power, runs nice and cool,  good-looking, small footprint, excellent remote, and more features than I'll likely ever need.  My Nova took at least 350 hours of run-in time before it started to make music.  I almost gave up on it.  :)

I went from bi-ammped separates, outboard DAC to a Peachtree  Nova 300 with built-in everything including a killer DAC and i absolutely love it! Best sound ive ever had and gobs of clean power.
https://www.themasterswitch.com/peachtree-audio-nova300-review

+1 

PrimaLuna
Rogue

Want to really simplify? Use a streamer with a DAC. The high res files are stunning.
A system made of three things and an IPad.  KISS. 
Speakers 
Amp
Music Server. 
That’s all. 
Simple.  
Full confession I just did this. I don’t miss records. You very well may and this was right for me. 

I was never a fan of Sonic Frontiers and was glad to see that you didnt have one of their amps. Considering your speakers, I would be very tempted to go all tube. Dont be afraid to get more than flea power! I am very impressed with the Resolution Audio int. amp for S.S. Perhaps a tube line stage preamp with a built in phono stage. If you like your Khorns you might find it difficult living with a different speaker,

Congrats to the good hearing after years as a music lover! If you like your system you don't have to change anything but if you want to, or think a smaller system would suit you better in the long run thete are a lot of pretty serious integrated amps, some with built-in dacs. I just heard Absolare at a small show/demo and they were really good but expensive and quite large. I am thinking about a Hegel and just saw that their H390 just won an Eisa award. Both of these are strong amps and might not suit your Klipschorns but my point is that there are a lot of exciting products out there.

If you ever want smaller speakers I also heard Dutch&Dutch active speakers. Like a whole system in the speakers. 

Pinkyboy, great looking DIY job, very professional looking ;-)

@pinkyboy....how recently, did you do these mods and rebuilds of the Khorns ? Well done.....Why are you looking to simplify the number of components ? One power switch vs. three ? Warm up time ? Better SQ ? If you are happy, why change anything ? However, knowing there is better, maybe scratch the itch........even at 80, this hobby is a merry-go-round. I would say that a single integrated, can give you superior musical involvement, but try them, in the house, first, before you sell anything....Enjoy ! MrD.

Very nice DIY stuff there "pinkyboy." Is there some explanation of what's happening in these pics?...very clean workspace...I'm envious!

I am grateful for those of you who have so kindly responded... there is much to think about here.  If any of you are really bored sometime, you might like to see my little DIY Klipschorn "improvement project."  Photos here:  https://www.flickr.com/photos/rfpd300/albums/72157711408048073

Thanks again,

Robert

"Love the one you’re with." After my recent, ill-conceived attempt at "downsizing", I realized that not only was it foolish, it was damn unpleasant psychologically and financially.

Moral of my story: I’m going back to my multiple black boxes of tube electronics.

One change I am making is what Elizabeth suggested: a small, basic second system for our bedroom where I can escape while my wife is watching TV or a movie.

I won’t attempt to talk you down because at 69 years of age I did just that 3 weeks ago. I went from the three box Cambridge Audio CXA series to a Naim Uniti Star and replaced my KEF LS50s with ProAc Response DT8. Kept my TT and phono preamp. I’m done. My terrible hearing didn’t warrant this change but I had an itch that needed scratching!

I won’t attempt to talk you down because at 69 years of age I did just that 3 weeks ago. I went from the three box Cambridge Audio CXA series to a Naim Uniti Star and replaced my KEF LS50s with ProAc Response DT8. Kept my TT and phono preamp. I’m done. My terrible hearing didn’t warrant this change but I had an itch that needed scratching!

Happy Birthday!! Sometimes we get an itch. Sometimes we need to scratch that itch. It sounds like you have an itch! Scratch away!!!

1st Happy 80th birthday.
As many others have stated just enjoy what you have why mess with a good thing if your system checks all your senses.  But if you decide you want to try something do it in your own home and don't sell your current gear until you are 110% satisfied and that smile on your face glows from ear to ear.