China built tube amps

Those weren't legitimate factory made Carver 275s and you know it!  And I'll touch country of origin...made in the USA

Too many Xenophobic buyers on this thread. Don’t use your phone. It was likely built in China. 

I only buy products made using 100% terrestrial raw materials, and assembled by humans, or with human oversight. Any more granular and the conversation turns stupid. Where was the copper mined? Where was it smelted? Where was it pulled into wire. Were the soyabeans used for the wire insulation organic or genetically modified

I only buy Terrestrially sourced products assembled by or have their assembly overseen by legitimate humans.

I’m not sure it’s exactly Xenophobic. When companies say a product is made in the US or stretch the truth it pisses people off and it should. Also nothing at all wrong with trying to buy made in America IMO. I do ok but if money were no object that’s exactly what I would do. 
 

I do know from experience that knock off parts are rampant in China. Bought and continue to buy a lot of tooling there and it’s a big problem. Some of this stuff looks exactly like the original. I would be a Skeptical of Fancy capacitors and such. Line magnetic seems to be a reliable company as does Cayin but some of these too good to be true outfits I would 2nd guess.

Those weren't legitimate factory made Carver 275s and you know it!  And I'll touch country of origin...made in the USA

However...

At least you get extra screws in case one fails.

@pesky_wabbit no I was in compliance and homologation for HRC and was crew for The Texas Tornado, Kentucky Kid was still cutting his teeth in the states then. 
 

Nicky rode for Repsol Honda in Moto GP.

I also worked with Foggy and Corser at Ducati. Troy is an awesome guy. 

Well, I have pulled the trigger. I picked up a Black Ice Audio Jolida integrated that was modified by Jerrod at Black Ice. The upgrades include high grade single crystal wiring in inputs and output and Vishay Naked Z resistors through out the audio path and an upgraded power cord. It is due to arrive later this week. I'll be spending the weekend playing with this new toy. so we'll see how it goes.

Congratulations Falconquest! Let us know how it works out for you.

Wow! That Carver Crimson 275 sounds like a real dog! $3k for a made in America amp that doesn’t meet specs? Do you know what I can buy for $3k? How on earth are people buying that amp, and who in the world is Carver using to build them?

Good on you for taking the plunge Falconquest! I hope it meets your needs. I’m more than happy with my Willsenton R8!

Congrats on your purchase. I once owned the Jolida Fusion preamp and found it to be a great buy. 

Wow! That Carver Crimson 275 sounds like a real dog! $3k for a made in America amp that doesn’t meet specs? Do you know what I can buy for $3k? How on earth are people buying that amp, and who in the world is Carver using to build them?

i actually own the carver amp, bought it used, at a good price

it actually sounds very very good... perhaps the power output does not meet the irresponsibly marketed numbers, but the amp is plays fine, actually much better than fine, sonically, it is excellent -- driving my spendor sp100 r2’s or harbeth mon 40/3s

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/shootout-primaluna-dialog-hp-integrated-carver-crimson-275-elekit-300/post?highlight=crimson%2Bjjss49&postid=2127278#2127278

this blind-as-a-bat piling on b-s is just that -- b-s -- from folks who don’t know, haven’t tried, talking out of their a** - guys, give it rest... there is another substantive thread on this forum dedicated to that particular amp

so you hate the commies and their cheap china crap... but here are ’murican’s making an amp in ’murica... that works well, but sly marketers these particular ’muricans are... overstating the power somewhat, pulling wool over the eyes of other ’muricans... cashing in on old warhorse bob carver’s reputation as a pioneer, iconoclast, against-the-grain designer...

so what do you hate more? that’s the operative emotion here, right? HATE .... talk sh&t... that’s fun, makes your evening, right?

let’s all chill, listen to music... enjoy, don’t hate....just give the hate a rest

@jjss49,

Couldn't agree more. that's why I was so taken aback by the dealer I spoke to. He sells the brand I wanted but said he wouldn't sell it to me? It's all junk he said. Well, maybe in his mind I suppose but that's no way to talk me into a $10K amp. To your point about hate, just as you indicate if you really dig into facts you usually find the hate is based on inaccurate information. This is a hobby after all. It's supposed to be fun, not divisive.

Nice choice @falconquest.  Black Ice (Jolida) tube amps are well designed and sound very good…way above their price point.  Great place to start at a great value.  Jerrod is a great guy, super helpful and eager to spend time explaining all the details to improved SQ.  I started with a Jolida el84 amp (upgraded to Raven Blackhawk), use a Modified JD-9 phono pre, a Black Ice glass Tube DAC (really nice DAC at an incredible price) and a Foz Sound stage expander. I have spent time on the phone with Jerrod and others gaining input and advice.  Learned a lot from them and trust their opinions.  They are not just selling you. 
Fyi- Tube rolling and installing a QSA (Quantum Science Audio) yellow fuse made my amp much more alive and detailed.  Well worth it.  Synergistic Reseach’s purple fuse is highly recommended as well by many.  Enjoy!

I am just an open minded Commie sympathizer. I want to support every murderous xenophobic dictatorial regime I can find. Does Russia make amps? That would be my next purchase after I support communist Chinese regime with my hard earned money.

@dkzzzz Such purity will require tossing nearly every single electronic component you possess or interact with. You're supporting commie regimes and all kinds of injustice from all over the world with nearly all your material possessions and purchases.

I have a few systems the main primary system consists of mark Levinson reference gear. But I have four tube systems the best of e is an old melody that was made in Australia before they started to manufacture them in China. That system in many ways is as good as the big system. And it has built in China speakers that were engineered in Germany  with Norwegian drivers. The next system is a newer melody that was made in China not as nice as the Australian built one I was really disappointed in it until I changed a bunch of tubes that being said it was way down the food chain it was one of there cheaper amps vs one of there best. And I have two other no me cheap  eight watt amps one fires a bathroom system the other in a sauna. Bother were really cheap both seem really durable and both are fun to listen to but they don't hold a candle to anything else I have  but they still make music! And way better than the standard mid fi brands . You can go many different ways but personally if you want to get your feet wet nothing wrong with one of the real cheap ones. Run it for six months and discount it a bit and sell it and go on to the next one. Or go up the food chain a bit and at least with the ones I have way more tube rolling available. I personally am thinking about getting one of the line magnetic ones that is based on the old GE commercial amps from before the war. They are magnificent. But you pay for those ones. My bidlg solid state system I have a tube from end in it a arc reference phono stage a sonic frontier dac and transport and a Macintosh mr73 tuner. I do like a bit of tube beauty in my music reproduction.  If you decide to try a really cheap Chinese amp my cheap ones were 359 Canadian dollars or about 250usd ask your self what have you lost if you don't like it? Basically nothing. Buy a ten thousand dollar plus amp made in the western world and don't you think it will cost you way more to sell it than the total cost of the Chinese amp? 

Regards

@ jerryg123: 

It makes me happy to hear there are a couple of other M/C enthusiasts/racing folks here. I guess it's no surprise. Hi-Fi and motorcycles can both make beautiful music.

@SNS If you live in USA your assertion would probably carry.

I live in EU, my washing machines, TVs, amps, speakers, even small kitchen appliances are all made in EU or Japan. Even my shoes and clothing are all made in US or Europe. I know it was a shock to me too after spending 19 years in US to see labels ’’Made in EU’’ on a vacuum cleaner & toaster.

So the moral of the story is; American elite sold US manufacturing down the river and made you poorer and more depended on murderous regimes. If US consumer continue to be ambivalent to where their stuff is made, well, you would lay in a bed you have made...

Yes, US people made their CHOICES long time ago, reason I cannot understand all the anti Chinese sentiment. We voted in our gvt. representatives and with our pocketbooks for the present situation, we should only blame ourselves.

@dkzzzz While you're offered more protectionist market in EU, I'll bet my bottom dollar many of the parts that make up many of your goods are make in China. Again, I'll reiterate injustices are world wide, plenty of countries in EU have their problems here as well.

Bottom line for me. leave the politics out of it, people make these products, not countries. Good and bad everywhere. I only make distinction when market entity is wholly owned by a bad gvt., this I would try to stay away from.

Chinese audio is getting better with every passing year, they will compete with every segment of market, including the highest echelon soon enough.

Chinese audio is getting better with every passing year, they will compete with every segment of market, including the highest echelon soon enough. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 For years, decdaes, I ADORED Jadis amplifiers,

Now I ADORE chinese amplifiers. DHT’s specifically, Just bought a Yaqin 2A3 push pull, STUNNING, stock tubes!!!!! wait til we rooll to high tech Lin Lai’s!!!! This summer hope to add a DIYer’s 845 design that lists his amp on Aliexpress, it s a DIY , no brand name. I do not have the cash for the higher chinese lines in 845’s. Cayin, Muzishare, Line Magnetic, Wellinston. My interest now in Jadis is zero.

EDIT, I used to place Dared, Ming Da and Yaqin all on the cheap list. Dared and Ming Da have pretty much faded away, leaving Yaqin as the lone survivor in this budget rank.

This 2A3 really places Yaqin up with the big boys now. Although its not scaffold build. Which helps keep price lw, but makes repairs, mods/upgrades difficult, if not impossible.

Last note, 
"Id take this Yaqin 2A3 over any Jadis's amp, as now I have high EFFICIENCY!!!!!!!!!!! speakers, Dont need Jadis monsta power. 

Any manufacturer capable of bringing a product to market is also capable of speccing whatever gradeparts they want. You want a cheap tube amp? OK, I'll spec cheap parts. You want a premium product, OK, ill spec premium parts, extra QC, fancy packaging. 

A friend of mine used to import cheap video cassette recorders targeted at big box stores. Their warranty & service? OTC exchange. The Korean manufacturer knew their 1st year failure rate was going to be around 7-8%, so for every 1000 1 000 VCRs ordered, they shipped 1,080. Problem solved.

Point being blaming country of origin is pointless. Its all made on earth, from 100% terrestrial raw materials, and assembled by 100% humans.

@jjss49 + 1

@carlsbad 

Looks like a very nice amp!

this topic/thread reminds me of the experience i had with a local singapore hifi shop owner selling out of beach road (not adelphi where 97% of all high end audio is sold in singapore), AV something something was the shop

wanted an audition of a class d amp, and sizing me up, he 'politely' bamboozled me with a demo of his (one speaker hooked up only) self modded Qacoustics speaker which even after mods, did not sound good at all.

(man he could talk and talk, but never once allowed me to listen to the amp i wanted to ...ahole...) 

anyway, discussion turned to me wanting to buy from china, since he was not gonna let me buy from him (wanted to sell me an italian amp that looked really shoddily made that was 2000% over my budget) and he WARNED me in no uncertain terms that the metals used in china amps CORRODED in singapore weather unless TREATED by HIM and HIM ALONE who holds the magic knowledge of china amp maintenance so i better buy through him instead

to date i never went back to that ogre's shop. i also bought a number of chinese amps with no corrosion issues even after many years of use

sellers, eh? 

I have a Cayin integrated, not my daily piece but I really like it.  I've had no problems with it.

@veerossi Doctor GOAT👍 🇨🇮

Assen 2015 🤗

Just picked up a  Melody h6550 integrated. Can't really find any information on it. Anybody no anything about them. It has 4 electro harmonix kt88 tunes, 4 Melody 6sn7 that say Australia  and2 Melody 12ax7 that also say Australia. Could the smaller tunes be original? What could I use to replace these. The unit sounds great but the smaller tunes are showing some burn marks. Thanks 

Once the warranty is up on something, any decent local tech should be able to fix a tube amp should something go  wrong with it. Not so much in the way of unobtanium parts inside a tube amp.

Replace the electrolytic caps every 30 years, and it’s should keep on keeping on.

60 year old diy Heathkit/Dynakit amps are still going strong. And they were built by someone’s uncle in a basement :)

@dkzzzz  

You use an iPhone?

What computer are you using to access the internet? 

You watch TV? 

Listen to the radio in your car?

Do you know where all your vegetables came from?

Well, he's an audio snob to be sure. Some of the gear that you mentioned brags about their output transformers. There are certainly far better transformers out there. For similar cost, you can get separates from at least North American manufactures that will be far better sounding, especially if they use Polish Toroidy transformers. I believe that there is also a Polish manufacturer that exclusively uses Toroidy output transformers. Don Sachs would be my first choice, and having Roy, at Tubes4HIFI would be my second choice, but I would have him build a KT88 based amp using 6SN7's on the input, and Toroidy transformers on the output. I believe that Don is slowing down production, but Roy isn't to the best of my knowledge. I did own a Primaluna amp, and it was okay, better than most transistor amps, IMO, but it wasn't as good as the amps Roy has designed. Roy can do all the Don Sachs mods for you, Don is a master modifier. That opinion was worth every penny that you paid for it.

ordered some knobs for guitar amps I am constructing. Took ten days to process and free ship China - Australian front door. The broader implications of ever improving Chineae postal/transport logistics are staggering..

A.......M.........A...........Z..............O.............. ?..............

@tammyholt I don’t want to complain but page 2 of this thread is unreadable on mobile. Looks like some post is affecting the width of the window. The newer HTML editor is not wrapping text correctly. Thank you.

@tammyholt it would be nice if you could re-commence my daily recap notification emails as I have not unsubscribed

thank you

Huge progress has made with China products, but I usually choose USA products. Why ?

Look at the products I used:

Audio Research VT100 MKiii, Working at good condition

Audio Research LS25 MK i working at good condition

Audio Research LS25 MKii working like new

Audio Research Classic 120 beautiful soundstage

Audio Research DAC 7 ,silent contribution to my music system

Audio Reearch CD3,I left it in China,I can recall the sound is beautiful

Those are all old machines, and when I check the RCA socket of LS25 MKii , It get vivid color.

How does that be? HIGH quality!

Any amplifiers, or DAC or CD, no matter where was made, give it 20 years and you tell us it is good quality.

DO NOT MAKE YOUR JUDGEMENT SO SOON.

I do not memtion my Audio Research REF 75SE,as it is not old enough.

All in one, despite the high quality, I get my RIGHT soundstage.

This is the key points for your music system.

You can not purchase only depend on the good sound, You got think it is the RIGHT sound when you put your order on.

That's just my 2 cents.

What is difference of good soundstage and RIGHT soundstage for yourself?

It is all your personal judgement.

For me,a good example is Pass labs vs Audio Research

I demo listen pass XP10+X250, the sound is good, beautiful, but it is not my cup of tea. Some one else will love it, but not me.

When I listen audio research, I feel I can not listen without them, I love it, It is the right soundstage for me.

when I check the RCA socket of LS25 MKii , It get vivid color.

I’ve heard of amplifiers conveying emotion, but AR appear to have taken it to a whole new level..

I would pose the question in a different way:
Are the sub $100 tube amps on Amz/Eb any good? I know that wont be as good as any Audio research  or McIntosh..
But for the sake of connecting a DVD player, are they 50%, 60%, 70% good? 

So the moral of the story is don’t pat yourself on the back if you bought Chinese Hi Fi. 

It is good if the Chinese amplifier uses a good tube and first-class goods, but it can be a bit difficult to accept the risk of buying it.