CD Player: Vintage or modern ones?

I just picked up the Teac VRDS 701t Transport.   Great machine.  

The only old CDP's worth considering AS TRANSPORTS are the TEACs, as in the VRDS mentioned above. TEAC had excellent transport mechanisms, even in their less fancy models (they still do, but it's now called "esoteric" and costs a fortune).

Digital to analogue conversion has generally improved in the past 20 years...

Keep in mind however that lasers have a finite life expectancy, so you might be better off purchasing something new

You’re possibly be right both of You, the other options is a Lascala MKII DAC and enjoy streaming.

Budget?

DACs have improved quite a bit since the dawn of the CD era.  This would include the the DACs contained in CDPs.

it’s unclear to me if the OP streams currently.  If he does not and is interested in doing so then a streaming DAC with a CD transport combination makes a lot of sense.

Transports and DACs have improved a lot over the last couple decades. So, newer much better. But the technology has also advanced. Streaming will offer the same sound quality (carefully chosen, compatible like everything else in high end audio), but you get access to over 10 million albums and over half a million of high resolution (higher than CD quality) with a service like Qobuz… $14.99 / month… the price of a single CD. I have 4,000 albums and have not listened to them in years. To do this you need a DAC and streamer… separated are best.

How do older cd players age, even when they are not put in use, for long periods of time?  I asked ChatGPT and got some surprising answers.

Yeah, I do have Aqua La Scala MKII, superb one, (don’t kill me USB from my MacBook Pro, will add LinQ in future) but all the hassle bout CD sounds superior… maybe I should save and get Aqua La Diva or start with a  CD6007 from Marantz and see what happens…

Some age better than others,they are built better.Sometimes ...

Some capacitors start degrading from the moment they roll off the assembly line. They have a built in lifespan, which might be a decade or two, but eventually they will all fail. So even if a CD player has never been used it could still be at end of life. There are a lot of players from the 90s and 2000s that still sound great but I'd be worried about them no matter how little use they have had. 

A vote for modern CD transports. Using Jay's cdt2-mk3 with Snake River boomslang AES cable to Gustard A26 dac with outstanding results. However it will set you back a few $. Gone the way of Marantz 6005 CD player, Cambridge CXC transport and PS Audio transport, and none of these satisfied my tastes.

New cd player is the way to go. 

I have a spare Cambridge 640C, and a Pioneer Elite stashed away while I'm using my OPPO player. Not sure what I'm going to do when they burn out. Probably get a transport and run it through a DAC.

Given you are asking about "old glory" CD players, I am assuming this means you are open to used?  If so I agree there are not many "old" players I would recommend, and they would generally need upgrades / modifications (e.g., the Sony CDP x777es)  But if you are willing to consider "recent" units, there are many, many good options. I would also NEVER recommend buying a new CD player - such plyers decline in value so quickly you really should go used.

With that said, your price range seems to be about $2500-4k based on the units you referenced.  Just looking on the 'gon (with the limitation that it has to be black, which I will never understand either aesthetically or sonically), you can pick up a Mark Levinson No, 512, which was $15k not all that long ago, for $3k, and it would give you perfectly fine sound.  Or on US audio mart, there is an MBL 1531 for under $3k - a very musical CD player. 

Maybe if you give more specifics on what you are looking for, you price range, sound preferences, etc, you can get more tailored advice.  

I used to like thick and warm, lately I’m looking for a balanced, nice punch but airy, realistic and natural, musical one, letting the Diesis Ludos shine, already got a Class A hybrid Amp from them with good body and naturalness, also the R2R La Scala MKII (also with couple of small tubes).

Tastes: Jazz, Bossanova, Soul, Funk, Flamenco, Folk, Classical and Reggae, and when in the mood classic 60/70’s rock.

Thanks for recommendations, gonna have a look!

PS: what is the benefit nowadays using CD’s instead of a nice DAC/Streamer combo?

Look for a  Teak pd-H600 if you want black, incredibly well-built and out performs well above its original MSRP. No bells and whistles just exceptional quality and performance, in a nice size solid package. Arguably The best Teak made.

Thanks for the recommendation, at the end I want the most analog sound coming from digital source!

I have 2 systems, and have an Audiolab 9000CDT on both. Great transfer unit.

PS: what is the benefit nowadays using CD’s instead of a nice DAC/Streamer combo?

Both good/great is done right BUT the selection with streaming is astounding. Go to a show or shop and check it out. Lot's of good used stuff for starter streamers or higher end steamers always around.  

The "benefit" of CDs is that you don't need the internet and a cleaned up ethernet chain. Less parts are needed too.

Sonically, with both done right, there's scant difference if any. High end flac files (steamed) are tops.

My CD's are in a closet and CD player is too. Both are kept in case the internet blacks out for days.

It depends on the quality of the CD player. The old Naim CDi that I inherited from my late Dad (RIP Dad 💔) is built like a tank and still sounds great over 30 years after it was manufactured. Of course the CDi would cost over $9000 today factoring in for inflation, but nice ones can be found from time to time for around a $1000US. As is the case with all vintage audio gear, finding parts can be an issue though. So caveat emptor. 👍

Unfortunately old lasers burn out sooner or later, and are often irreplaceable.  I'd be looking for an inexpensive transport (even a universal player including SuperAudio CD playback) and spend the leftover loot on a good DAC,  I do not know of a streaming service that outperforms multi-channel SACD ...

 I do not know of a streaming service that outperforms multi-channel SACD ...

Have you tired Qobuz larger FLAC files on a higher end streamer and DAC setup? It's not possible to hear any difference.  My test subject is just me.

So interesting… I think would be the only way I’d listen to an entire album, streaming as comfy and good it is, makes me nervous changing song from one album to another, maybe just get a transport for my Aqua La Scala? Would be this option better than just get a 1000-4000€ cd player?

You will have to find out, comparing the two options. Probably, your hifi dealer is able to provide the respective gear for a few days.

As you own already a superb dac, you might want to go forward with a transport. As said, try to listen to your options in your 4 walls. Even with two or three different transports in different price ranges. That's what I would do.

At the end of the day, nobody can give you a final and bullet proof answer to your last question. Only you can.

Thanks eagle, wise tip.

I was in a similar situation when my Audio Aero CD-player broke down. With (too) many CDs I was recommended to go for a used Accuphase DP-67, around 2008 considered as one of the best CD-players around. Indeed, it sounded really great. But when I connected it to my Merason Frerot DAC it sounded so much better. Obviously, modern mid-priced DACs are much better than the ones in state-of-the-art CD-players of about 15 years ago. So if you want to buy an older CD-player, focus on the quality of the transport and add a modern DAC.

My next observation was that all the CDs I had collected between 1990 and 2010 sounded mediocre compared to streaming them in high resolution on Quboz. So I sold the Accuphase, and had the Audio Aero repaired for the occasional time I want to listen to a CD that is not in Quboz.

Great advice Steiv......  based on both experience and practical capabilities (theory).  

Old school, look at a top loader Sony SCD-777ES or Sony SCD-1 ES, front loader Pioneer Elite DV-09 Fully copper chassis inside, and Esoteric (any P-01, P-02, or P-03; K-01-K-03.  These units are built like a brick and most of the new units can’t compete in the class with these unless you step up to the new Esoteric G series or DCS.  Break out your piggy bank for the latter of the two mentioned.  I’ve been fortunate to test and compare the units above.  In some of the older units, I have replaced capacitors in 1 of the units and believe me, it was well worth it.  Hope this helps for you and anyone else who is looking.

+1 decathalon1991

I have an older Sony XA series and also an older Pioneer PD65 and both are stellar tank machines with great drive mechanisms. Parts can be found but be careful. As far as new machines go, Jays Audio makes a solid transport (which I also have) that can feed the top notch DAC of your choice.

@2psyop yrs, I agree both are excellent units.  I have the Pioneer Elite PD-65 before switching to the Pioneer Elite DV-09 and had the Jay’s Audio before going back to Esoteric separate (transport, DAC, and Clock).  For streaming, I have the Reference Cary Audio DMS-800PV ( Dual Mono design) DAC/ streamer. I use Nordost QNET, and the separate power supply, the Nordost QRT QSource.  I’ve tried a lot of top of the line streamers.  This one does it for me.  As incredible this unit is, CD’s (Redbook, DVD Audio, SACD with Multi or two channels) still outperforms streaming at its best.  Now to be fair, streaming is still improving but I don’t let practicality govern my senses of better sound quality than CD’s.

In my system I haven’t tried Taiko Audio SGM Extreme Network Music Server but I have spent extensive time with it in my friends system.  I would say this is elite status for streaming but it is best performed storing and playing back your music.  That may be next on my list but I’m trying to justify + $40K for this unit or any feature unit this company may produce in the near future.

As incredible this unit is, CD’s (Redbook, DVD Audio, SACD with Multi or two channels) still outperforms streaming at its best.

I have only had my Cambridge CXN100 streamer for 3 weeks but my CD playback is well sorted. So far my CD playback is better.

No, not worth it. With CD players, vintage vs modern is not the right question. Some are good, some aren't as good. Nothing to do with age when it comes to those. 

After some serious consideration, and listen what a good CD player can do with my speakers and amp, and also embracing how comfy had been streaming for my wife and me over the last two years, and more recently using our Voxativ Zeth Absolut system, I gave to my dealer a good bunch of stuff including the TT, to trade it for a metronome aqwo 2+ with tube module. I’m done with this, now I have a nice collection of Vinyls to sell and put the money into our savings for our new home.

Thank You all, I’m seriously done with gear at least for the next decade.

PS: Cannot still believe how close in emotion and warm is the Metronome to my old Kuzma Stabi R.

CD3 MKII ARC.

The Ayre C-5xe mp Universal CD/SACD/DVD Player would be a fine choice. Lot's of flexibility, sounds great and can be had at at decent price.

thanks, got the Metronome AQWO 2.

@superelmar " thanks, got the Metronome AQWO 2. "

The idea of a discovery to be made of a Vintage CD Player suggests there is a limitation on a Budget.

The follow up support, directs to CDT, CDP's at approx' $3Kish as the maximum.

The Metronome AQWO 2 is seemingly a $18K device ? Wow! that was substantial jump to make. This should really give the CD Collection the Tool to enable them to show themselves at their very best. 

Are the Jazz and Classical CD's a collection of super rare productions that only a few are blessed with owning   

   , 

gave to the dealer a bunch of stuff, now just keeping the voxativ and diesis system.

@superelmar Great to see you've got yourself a Métronome. I couldn't be happier with mine, a DSS1. A hardly use my Pink Triangle Export GTI anymore, which is a quite decent turntable.​

Hi there. I use a 30+ year old Meridian CD player. I love it! But it certainly has its quirks. It does not play CD-Rs (which sometimes I burn from Bandcamp downloads) and occasionally it refuses to read some CDs (usually ones from small, boutique labels). That said, it does play about 95% of the CDs I throw at it. Anything it doesn’t play I rip and add to my Roon library or I play in my second system that has an Oppo player.

I purchased the Meridian from the original owner and it came with original box/paperwork, etc.. The seller gave me a one year guaranteed and if I had problems they were willing to take it back. I’ve had it for over two years now. I love the industrial design of the Meridian and think of it as a fun, unique piece on my rack. It does have its quirks, but I’m willing to put up with them since I have other ways of playing music. My point basically being, if you want vintage, then go for something you really want because you enjoy the brand, the history and influence of the component. Perhaps its legacy. And make sure you feel confident with with who you’re buying from. If you want trouble free and want to know it’s going to play everything, then consider new.

As for SQ, I have my Meridian player running coax into my BorderPatrol DAC SE and am very happy with the sound. No complaints — it equals my Stack Audio Link II Roon endpoint going into the same DAC.

___
[EDIT] Just read your comment about purchasing the Metronome AQWO 2+. Congrats and very nice! Disregard what I said above :)

There are some "vintage" CD players/Transports that are simply outstanding.  Also, there are a few that have excellent internal DACs also.  Back in the day, Sony and Pioneer were in the CD player wars.  They built their CD players better than anyone else at the time and they were built so well that I have to believe that they lost money on some units.

For example:  Sony's CD777ES (I believe) or 707ES, Pioneer Elite's PD93, 95, 91, 65 are very nice.  The PD93 is impossible to find and is built so well that it is scary.  Look at the video of the PD93 on the Skyfiaudio web site.  Great site by-the-way.  If you can find it, buy it. 

The Pioneer Elite DV-09, BDP-09 are also built like tanks.  Seriously overbuilt, with very nice internal DACS.  The DV-09 is under $300 USD now and I am an "expert" in repairing them.  What a unit.

I've A/B demo'd the PD-93 as a CD player using the RCA outputs into my Audio Research REF 10 pre-amp.  very nice indeed.  I've then listened to the optical output into my Audio Research DAC 9 DAC, then into my REF 10.  yes, the DAC 9 is better, but the PD-93 sounded so good, it was amazing.  Same for the DV-09. Using this a a transport only, it it hard to beat. Seriously. 

my point, is that you can spend a few hundred dollars and get a really great CD transport or CD player with a decent internal DAC.

The PD-93 isn't cheap because people in the know, know.

look at Skyfiaudio's web site.  youtube videos.  They do excellent work and the tech there really knows his stuff.  

enjoy

Digital is not the place to go vintage. 
 

last 10 years have been particularly significant as this tech continues to mature. 
 

would not recommend buying anything older than 2015  

@minorl @decathlon1991 i'm also a big fan of the old pioneer elite cdps, which are ridiculously overbuilt, tho i caution that the dv09 and some others don't play cdrs. i still use a dv-79av, which has been bulletproof, plays sacd and sounds great. i see 'em on ebay all the time for <$200.

My best sounding CD playback has been from an SACD/DVD player, the Philips 963SA.  Most other decks sound opaque compared to this one. $300 or less purchased used.

I have also used a Pioneer Elite, which had good tone overall but sounded a little thick (not airy) in the upper frequencies. If your speakers are of the hyper-detailed variety this treble handling might be advantageous.

2nd-

Philips 963SA and Pioneer Elite DV-79AVi players.

Happy Listening!