Burn your power cables in PROPERLY with Haglabs Frycorder

I am thinking of just diy/making a cooker in my garage (also known as deeplabs) that will deep fry everything...black background, blackened chicken etoufe and hashbrowns for days.

It may also entertain the listener with dance music while it’s cooking (will need more R&D if I decide to go this route).

If you want one, i could sell you one. The price will be on a sliding scale dependant on your networth,

(Once you go deep, you'll never go back)

@rodman99999 +1 thanks! more proven variables to consider: room temperature, humidity, atmospheric pressure, number of people… I found one big variables in my room how sofa cushions are placed, which affects room acoustics a lot :-) 

@westcoastaudiophile-

                                                         YEP!

                                  As I mentioned in my previous post:

     No one can tell you whether/how your system, room and/or ears will respond to some new addition. 

                                 There are simply too many variables! 

                                 Enjoy the journey and happy listening!

@rodman99999 thanks for sharing your sense of humor! Being decades experienced analog design engineer, including designing devices for high volume markets (100M +), I also carefully select devices/cables/sound-sources/tracks for enjoyment! As of burnin process it’s important for: 1) tube amp after tubes refresh at least 25hr +, with final bias/balance adj. Tube amps also have significant high-voltage and high power resistor degradation, thus need to be tested or replaced often  2) fresh digital devices, if manufacturer skips it (Accuphase for example has 50hr mandatory product run after assembly, to ensure performance guarantee 3) cables - not much degradation there, cables/contacts perform the best fresh

 "Burn your power cables” I would add bank acct. to post too! 

                       "...this entire hobby...burning machine." ?

                                         Easy feedback:

                             Anyone that can't take the heat;

                               get out of the Kable Kitchen!

                                              ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

                          ENJOY what you have and know.

                                          Happy listening!

@westcoastaudiophile

That's what this entire hobby is, a bank account burning machine.

@jea48

I like this mission statement: ...

By providing a mission statement that outlines rules of engagement, accountability in the form of active moderation, and a separate location for arguments between naysayers and true believers, A'gon could mostly clean up the pervasive bickering that monopolizes these threads.

@agisthos "Burn your power cables” I would add bank acct. to post too! 

agisthos, The Nordost VIDAR was never meant to be used with power cabling. I use it for tonearm cable, tonearm wiring, and line level cabling.

Right, its the Audiokharma cooker that does everything. But does Nordost have a power cable conditioner? Considering PC's are a big part of their lineup you would think so.

Anyway I cannot imagine buying anything else other than the Haglabs FryBaby for line level, considering the performance of the FryCorder.

@jea48-

                                             +1

     I have one word, to express my personal view/estimation as regards the Church of Denyin'tology and it's obfuscating, classically (possibly- willfully) obtuse adherents:

                             floccinaucinihilipilification

                                     Happy listening!

agisthos, The Nordost VIDAR was never meant to be used with power cabling. I use it for tonearm cable, tonearm wiring, and line level cabling.

I like the part where even his wife can hear it.  Isn't that the ultimate test? 

Paul Seydor just happens to try the Haglabs products in the latest issue of TAS (May/June 2024). He also is a burn in skeptic and thinks cable changes are mostly exaggerated.

Most of my regular readers know that I am about as far from a wire junkie as it’s possible to get. Over two decades ago, Neil Gader and I did interconnect and speaker-cable surveys, as a consequence of which I vowed I’d never subject myself to such an experience again—nothing to do with Neil, one of my closest friends and always a joy to work with, rather the objects of the surveys themselves

Then there’s my subjective experience, to wit, that most of the claims made for improvements said to be wrought by changes in interconnects, cables, line cords, and conditioners are to my ears usually exaggerated, sometimes little or even no improvement at all, merely a noticeable difference, occasionally worse than before the swap. In order to forestall a barrage of angry emails to our overworked editor, please note that I do not say the differences are unobservable or insignificant, particularly to those for whom they are significant, merely to my mind overstated.

So what was his experience?

I opened the first sample, connected it to the FryCorder2, and let it cook for five days. I then plugged it into the line conditioner (by the same company) and played music for another week or so. One day I cued up Impex’s Sing and Dance with Frank Sinatra remastering and listened for about a minute or so. Next, I substituted the unburned-in cord, which until then I had not even unpacked, and played the same passage at the exact same volume (my preamp has a numerical read-out of the level) for the exact same period of time, about a minute, though I certainly did not need that long. The difference left me slack-jawed—this from someone who has often been deeply skeptical, if not positively cynical about the whole break-in, burn-in business.

With the burned-in cord Sinatra’s voice was warm and rich, with as much dynamic range as the technology of the time allowed, full of life and vitality, with marvelous body and dimensionality. With the unburned-in cord the sound was pinched, thin, and edgy. So, the first thing I did is what I usually do when confronted with something like this—called in my wife Danielle. Now Danielle’s no audiophile, but she listens well and astutely, and her responses are untainted by typical audiophile predilections, prejudices, and pomposities. I started with the burned-in cord at exactly the same level and played the recording for the same length of time, around a minute. Then I told her I was going to play it again, but without letting her see what I was doing, adding that she might not hear any difference at all. Not 20 seconds elapsed before she said, “This is not subtle,” and proceeded to describe the differences she observed in more or less the same or closely analogous terms as I did.

What conclusions can be drawn from my little experiments? Frankly, not many of a general nature that I’d be willing to place much stock in without a far greater variety of source material, more numerous comparisons, much more time spent in the listening, and a wider sample of cords and brands. But the one thing that is clearer to me than ever before is the importance of burn-in, so much so that henceforth I shall never trust my impressions of any wire product auditioned immediately after it’s been removed from factory-sealed packaging. And I shall never again disparage the necessity of burning in wire products.

@pinwa  i have now 2 days my first Ice age audio FrankenCable  power cord on amp.  Incredible cable , from the start soudstage is fantastic. This is a true giant killer ,  that's why no one dares to compare them with expensive cables in tests.

Well written responses to the naysayer community.  Keeping an open mind is more often a virtue than not.

     "Louis Pasteur's theory of germs is ridiculous fiction."  (Pierre Pachet, Professor of Physiology at Toulouse , 1872) 

     "The abdomen, the chest, and the brain will forever be shut from the intrusion of the wise and humane surgeon,"  (Sir John Eric Ericksen, British surgeon, appointed Surgeon-Extraordinary to Queen Victoria 1873)

      "The super computer is technologically impossible.  It would take all of the water that flows over Niagara Falls to cool the heat generated by the number of vacuum tubes required." (Professor of Electrical Engineering, New York University)                        

      "There is no likelihood man can ever tap the power of the atom."  (Robert Millikan, Nobel Prize in Physics, 1923)

      "Man will never reach the moon regardless of all future scientific advances." (Dr. Lee DeForest, Father of Radio & Grandfather of Television)

      "Heavier-than-air flying machines are impossible!" (Lord Kelvin, president, Royal Society, 1895) 

      "The bomb will never go off.  I speak as an expert in explosives."  (Admiral William Leahy, re: US Atomic Bomb Project) 

     When the steam locomotive came on the scene; the best (scientific) minds proclaimed, "The human body cannot survive speeds in excess of 35MPH."

      Until recently (21st Century); and the advent of the relatively new science of Fluid Dynamics, the best (scientific) minds involved in Aerodynamics, could not fathom how a bumblebee stays aloft. 

     Often; Science has to catch up with the facts/phenomena of Nature and/or, "reality" (our universe). 

     I haven't been in school since the 60's, but- at Case Institute of Technology; the Physics Prof always emphasized what we were studying was, "Electrical THEORY."         He strongly made a point of the fact that no one had yet actually observed electrons (how they behave on the quantum level) and that only some things can really be called, "LAWS." (ie: Ohm, Kirchoff, Faraday)   

                 PERHAPS: that's changed in recent years and I missed it?

I hate to get in the middle of these pointless arguments where all the people that have never given a product a try deny that it could have any effect and must be snake oil simply because they can’t propose a mechanism for its action but I am going to anyhow LOL.

1) I visited Shunyata Research recently where Caelin Gabriel said that he considered burn in a fact, not a belief. He pointed out that at Shunyata they have made exactly the same cable, made by exactly the same person, and tested them at different levels of burn in and clearly and repeatably heard a difference.

2) The guys at PS Audio have also made that same claim, that they have built the same products and compared them at different levels of burn in with clearly audible differences.

3) Shunyata claims their KPIP burn in process provides such a dramatic benefit that they no longer cryo treat their products.

4) Since I was buying a loom of Ice Age power cables and saw this thread, and was familiar with the positive reviews for Hagerman’s phono stages, I decided to take advantage of their 30 day return policy and bought the Frycorder2. At $189 shipped with return privileges it seemed like a no brainer.

5) Before any burn in I put the full loom of Ice Age OFC power cables in my system and compared them to the mostly Pangea cables I had before. I heard them as being slightly different, especially in the bass, but not clearly better.

6) I bought adapters on Amazon that let me daisy chain all 5 power cables and hooked them to the Frycorder2 for 3 days. And for good measure I put them on a fan for a day and a half after that. Shunyata said that a fan was the best thing for an end user to use to burn in power cables.

7) Once again I compared the Ice Age cables to the previous set up of mostly Pangea cables going back and forth twice to confirm what I was hearing. After the burn in the Ice Age cables had improved dramatically and were clearly much better than my previous set up in all the ways we listen to. Dynamics, bass, transients, attack and sound stage were all immediately and noticeably better. Since the Ice Age cables also come with a 30 day return policy my preference would actually have been for none of this to have resulted in a positive outcome.

8) Bottom line for me is burn in is real, the Frycorder2 made a very positive change in my power cords, and the Ice Age OFC power cables are a remarkable bargain in a sea of grossly overpriced gear.

I could care less what all the naysayers think who have preconceived opinions about how something won’t work and can’t be bothered to actually test those opinions and simply assert that anybody that disagrees with them must be delusional. Go take advantage of the money back guarantees and give the products a fair trial and perform your own A/B tests. If you actually know how to listen, and yes it is a skill, and have a reasonably good system, and you still don’t hear any benefit then make a constructive post with your findings.  That would actually be helpful. This blathering on about how something can’t work and must be snake oil is ridiculous without any testing with the most sensitive instrument we have, the human ear.

My Frybaby does wonders. It can transform your sound after as little as 24 hours of burn-in. I will be ordering the unit for power cables soon. Too easy to use and so beneficial for such low investment.

Give the OP a break.  Who are you to refute what he heard?  

I am neutral on this one but nothing useful is gained by mocking and disparaging others on this site.  

@agisthos "Burn your power cables” yep! LOL

@raysmtb1 "The more you spend the better it is” +1 LOL

I have no idea why some of you spend so much money on such devices. I just put my power cords in a deluxe microwave oven for five minutes. You wouldn’t believe how much better they sound! 
 

Seriously, this is one of the most ridiculous threads on the site. 

The more you spend the better it is. I recommend all aftermarket cable manufactures are wonderful guys. How do you know when the cable manufacture is not telling you the truth?

@hagtech Right on music lover and engineer of really great sounding, innovative and affordable kit. Dinner on me next time i’m on your Island !

This is nonsense, and we need to stop perpetuating it. 

@agisthos Thank you for the kind words and testimonial. Cable break-in is one of those things you just need to try for yourself. Easy to do, and I offer a 30-day trial period, so you can return device if it does nothing for you.

From what I’ve deduced over the past 25 years, break-in is not about how much voltage, current, or power you can shove through a wire. If it were, power cords would break themselves in, right? Sorry Refrigerator Guy.

No, I believe it is all about the electrical and magnetic fields generated within the dielectric (insulation between conductors). Think of a cable as a capacitor. You break them in by doing essentially the same thing, exercising the fields, as much as you possibly can. That’s what the original FryKleaner did (generation prior to FryBaby), producing a signal equal to playing a hundred songs at the same time, basically white noise, while also modulating that signal in amplitude for more low frequency content. It also swept that modulation in time such that there was no constant steady-state information. The result sounds a bit like a vintage steam train speeding up and slowing down.

But that’s not all there is to it! We already know large voltage and current do not do the trick, so what is it? I believe it is not the amplitude of the fields that are doing most of the work, but rather how fast these fields are changing in time. That is, frequency. The secret to break-in is high frequency, operating well above the audio band. This is also why I think USB and CAT5 cables tend to break themselves in.

Think of RIAA correction for a minute. It was an attempt to de-emphasize the 6dB per decade slope characteristic of the generator (cartridge), where output voltage (or current) is proportional to velocity. This is exactly what I think is going on with burn-in. It’s all about the rate of change of fields (velocity). So for example, a power cord at 120V and 60Hz (and I don’t care how many amps) does not do much to break-in that cord. Not even thousands of hours. Let’s double that frequency seven times over (2^7 = 128), or roughly 7.7kHz. To me, a 1V signal at 7.7kHz has similar burn-in capability as does the original 120V at 60Hz. If we doubled frequency twelve times (4096 * 60 = 246kHz), we have 32 times more oomph (2^5). This is exactly what my FryCorder can do (FryBaby goes up to 500kHz). You cannot do that with a refrigerator. Fast changing electric and magnetic fields are what work the dielectric, breaking it in faster than music itself.

I buy so much stuff I don't need and why should I stop now. I'll take a few and give them away as gifts if I don't like them.

I'm still evaluating my grounding box with very expensive connecting wires.

I'm also evaluating some liquid material I put at the end of my cables.

also Evaluating those rubber things you put on tubes.

Also Evaluating vibration pads specially designed to be put on other vibration pads. 

And also evaluating Cable lifters.

Everything works amazing and I am so happy when I see more stuff like this I can buy

@andili That's interesting to hear because I was wondering what is really going on - is it the burning in of the main line that gives all the benefits? or does putting hours on each individual power cable have an effect?

According to your experience the later. I am doing 48 hours on each line so by this weekend will have the whole system done and can do a proper listen.

True there is a lot of snakeoil and useless products in this industry, but this one does something that is immediately obvious. And its so cheap at $189, that's a drop in the bucket - I have other tweaks that do far less for far more.

Hello Agisthos,

Here is a person talking to you who really tried it out. I tell you how I bought it. A friend of mine camed to my place with a hijiri nagomi powercord. It was better than all my powercords so I decided to buy four of them from the same shop for my setup. When I got them I was really sad because they doesnt come close to the soundquality of my friends nagomi... :( I called the shop and told the shopowner that the cables maybe are fake! He promised me that they are for sure NO fake because he bought it from the distributor for germany. Then for my luck he remembered that he burnt my friends cable in for two days with a hagerman labs frycorder 2. Then he sended me his frycorder to burn then in by myself. And in the end it was the same soundquality. No it was even better because I burned one cable in for two weeks. This was the bestsounding cable. Then I wanted to buy the frycorder from the shop but he told me he won't sell it because its his own exemplar. Then I ordered one from haglabs webpage. Since then all my powercords have minimum of two weeks burn in and the frycorder works all the day. When I don't listen to a unit of my setup the powercord sticks in the frycorder. ;) Now I am interested in the snakeoil and electricitystudent comments from people which never try - just pray their useless non-fact-based opinion. :) Sorry for my bad english but I am from Bavaria/Germany. 

Kind regards from lake Tegernsee, Andreas

My stereo makes me so happy now, any change would surely be anticlimactic. I will use the energy to find new interesting music.

Hey, maybe this place will turn into Audio Science Review (ASR).

Wouldn't that be fun?

@retiredfarmer that’s not inaccurate but I think you might be misapplying the sentiment in this case. In the absence of tractable metrics for a process/device like this, anyone with a reasonable understanding of experimental design (and/or psychology) will acknowledge the only option is a properly controlled preference study.

No reputable university will train people to base their understandings on anecdotes, no matter how abundant an online community may profess the anecdotes to be. Understanding comes from factual evidence. Belief comes from personal experience and/or unquantifiable anecdotes. Anecdotes are not evidence, but evidence of audible difference can be sought with properly controlled preference studies, even in the absence of digital test protocol/equipment.
So it’s left up to the purveyors of such devices as “cable burn-in’ers” to test (for consumer preference). The question “Why don’t they just do it?” is begged, the true answers probably being:

(1) it’s not free of time, money and other resources,

(2) it’s possible that less-than-favorable results may be had, and

(3) why invest (1) and risk (2) if sales occur without due diligence (1 and 2)?

Yeah - who likes it when a question is used to answer another question, right? 😉

One question about consistency of design philosophy, given the alleged importance of such things as cable burn-in being sufficient to warrant Hagerman Labs developing multiple devices for the purpose, … how does burn-in affect the cheap switching power supply for the rave-reviews-phono stage Hagerman designed - the current 3rd gen model that replaced the previous inbuilt PSU-versions of the Trumpet? Advocating a flagship phono stage that’s powered by a Chinese wall wart to the same folks you’re selling “cable burn-in’ers” seems to me a double standard. What am I missing?

Disclaimer: there’s little skepticism in my mind that the Hagerman phono stage is probably great (I’m particularly partial to certain 12AX7’s, so bias be had!), and I’m not one to assume a properly matched switching PSU will audibly degrade all stereo playback components. What’s curious to me is that I usually see a pattern of folks who say (A) LPS is a must for everything x cables / burn-in is real. Folks who hold (B) cheap switching wall warts for an analogue stage being fine x cables need unmeasurable burn-in, to be simultaneous truths would, in theory, be a rare breed indeed, no?

Overthinking this, surely, but, I like to know the process behind patterns I sense. Lest the patterns not be real patterns at all. 😆

@ak749  you know that a university  education  is about opening your mind and looking at things from more than just one way . 

"Engineering must be based on the scientific method, and in these products, science is being disregarded."

Exactly! Science and its engineering applications are all based on measurements. How do possibly power cables burn-in? Customer feedback? This is not science... just an excuse that ridiculously over-priced cable sellers came up with. So don't miss the return deadline.

@retiredfarmer

I'm one of those cheapskates who invested 6 years of my time and lots of money gaining a Bachelors Degree in Electrical Engineering. As such, I know enough about electricity to not know that there is nothing worth trying here.

Does anyone know if this is a onetime event or is periodic maintenance required?

Extracted from a thread “Cable Burn-In - Myth or Fact?” at Audio Science Review that Hagerman started about this equipment:

“What are the physics behind burn-in? I don't actually know, never been able to figure it out. I have some ideas, but not the chops to dig deep enough into the underlying mechanics to prove anything.”
 

To summarize, the engineer is basing his concept for the effectiveness of his “cable burn-in’ers” on his customer feedback. Customer feedback is not a suitable sole means of validation for design efficacy, which has been understood to the point of our planet having legal infrastructure against it for decades in other industries.

IOW, there is literally no scientific process or evidence whatsoever to support what these devices allegedly do. Please understand, this is not advocacy for the pseudoscientific stance of “no measurements = no difference” - I do not think this way nor do I agree with the stance that “if it cannot presently be measured then it cannot exist.” Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. In this case, the issue is both the engineer and consumer appear to not understand, or not acknowledge, what constitutes evidence.

Engineering must be based on the scientific method, and in these products, science is being disregarded. At least the designer is somewhat up front about it. I admire someone who publishes his schematics in this day of nearly unchecked IP theft. However, in the case of this particular “IP,” I’m not sure how much there is to protect.

Link to the whole aforementioned thread for any user / would-be user of this product:

@retiredfarmer ,

While I do not have experience with the product in discussion, I wholeheartedly agree with this comment:

I always am interested  in the comments of the cheapskate who will not try  anything  if it takes either time or money.

I am seeing such trolls active on this thread and on another one, without trying either products and claiming to know-it-all.

I always am interested  in the comments of the cheapskate who will not try  anything  if it takes either time or money.  They don't ever seem to have either one except  when I comes to being  a keyboard  warriors. 

@corelli  At this point, after all the shysters, con men, grifters, and thieves have made just about every ridiculous claim about their do-nothing products, we should be pretty wise to the lines.  We shouldn't have to point out that wires and fuses don't need burn in.  We should be smarter than that.  Should be, but...

@jhnnrrs  Hey, I never said I endorsed the product.  I said I would not trust "wire re-distributers" any more than I would trust Hagerman. Have you never heard  "hokey pseudo-scientific word salad slinger" verbiage to endorse a cable??

These will never sell many at that price.  If they increased the price is to $27,000 they'll have to ramp up production to a 24/7 operation.

My 2 cents worth, most if not all high end cable and gadgets are worth less than my said 2 cents worth, silly stupid stuff for the gullible. Burn that in lol

Cheers 

If I burn in my refrigerator cable will it make everything warmer?

@audioman58 they have another product that can, the Frybaby, it can connect RCA, Speaker cables and XLR with an adaptor (adaptor is extra cost addon).