Bought a new McIntosh amp
My thoughts as a McIntosh owner and long time fan. Make one change at a time, and if you're considering Klipsch Heresy IVs, start there. Try the Klipsch out with your current Rotel amp (that extra 50 watts is unlikely to matter with the efficiency of the Heresy) and your 150watt Rotel is plenty of power for that speaker. Then, figure out what you want in a new amp once you really know the speakers (more thrust, higher damping factor, softer or brighter signature, tubes?) I'd bring the MC152 back, and take some time to consider what I really want in my next amp. I'm sure the MC152 is worthy of owning, but you'll probably get more mileage from a speaker swap. |
avanti1960,, I had a short demo at Crutchfield but it was hooked up only to a B&W bookshelf, i think its the 706. It sounded nice, and that got my attention to the model that I can afford. yakbob,,,, I just might keep it and use my Rotel pre-amp for now. going to look for a used Rogue pre or used my 40 year old HK as pre-amp. |
If in doubt of the amplifier you have I would return it. The best sounding amplifier that Macintosh has in my opinion is the MC 275. It is plenty of amplifier for the heresy speakers, I believe it has 75 watts a channel. MC 275 is considered a classic because it’s the only amplifier that I have heard from them that has MAGIC and that’s why it’s a classic. Best of luck |
I'm just getting back to the hifi hobby and want to try out McIntosh again but affordability is the big hurdle with the "liked" models. I had a mc240 long time ago but my handmade Marshal amp built from scratch sounded better than the 240 driving Altec Lansing speakers. I'm still feeling the itch to just try it out, worst that may happen if I don't like how it sounds is exchanged it for the Heresy speakers. Not sure if that's acceptable with the dealer. will find out later. |
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I am not familiar with the Mac amps. But I cannot imagine splitting the funds from a single component into two is likely to result in a step towards better sound. That has never worked for me. Always stretch to the max on a single component… then save, save, save for the next. That is the way to audio nirvana. |
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There's more than one path to sonic bliss, and it doesn't need to cost a fortune. Just going off of retail prices, the mc152 is $5,000. Granted, i don't know what all of your needs are in an amp, but you could roll that 5k into a pair of Heresy's at $3200 and a Bob Latino ST-70 tube amp with el34s or KT-66s for $1400. That pairing would likely outperform your Rotel amp even with lower wattage. The Tubes4Hifi amps don't have the overly warm and slow sound of the original Dynaco units. I've owned both and still have the Latino amp. Its a terrific value. http://www.tubes4hifi.com/bob.htm#ST70 |
Well, i broke down and opened the sealed box and set up the mc152 driving Paradigm 800f. Not a wow event but there's noticeable midrange clarity, more so with acoustic guitar sounds. I like it. Bass is ok, hope to hear more some more improvement after some burn in hours. I'm keeping it and aim to get the Heresy speakers later on, but its going to be a toss up where to spend the coins then should a good used MC preamp be found. Thanks to all who responded. |
If you want to try a McIntosh in a budget, take a look at the MC7104 I have for sale. Four by 100watts at 4 amps and 2x200 at 8 amps when mono bridged. Plenty of power and a real deal because it uses lights on the front face instead of the needles. Listed at $1400. Maintained and recently cleaned and tested to spec. And I have Heresy IV speakers. You will never get to midnight on the volume and there will be tonnes if headroom. |
Thanks for the offer, claudiowalker77. I don't buy used power amp but will do on pre-amp. The heat gets on the electronics more whereas pre-amp stays cool with SS and even tube pre amp doesn't get hot but only warm. Also, the tube amp that beat the 240 was equipped with Sansui output transformer and that what gave it the edge against the mc240. We were hand winding our transformer before we found the Sansui made transformers. All had 6L6GC tubes including the mc240. |
Hi Switchman! I read your post. It makes no sense to own a McIntosh amplifier if you have Paradigm speakers. The Rotel amps are exceptional for the money. Especially the new Rotel amps with decent DAC's, and balanced connectors. If I were you, I would return the McIntosh amplifier. There are so many speakers to choose from. Going for a pair of B & W, Totem, or PS Audio speakers would be a much better audio investment compared to the new McIntosh amplifier at this point. Put your money Into speakers first. For most of us, we have to budget our audio purchases one at a time. That’s the way see it. |
You have purchase a very significant and important piece of equipment. Enjoy it, let it break in. Get to know it. Many people lust after such a piece of hardware and could never afford it. It is a piece you could easily keep for twenty or thirty years and be proud of owning. Given what you have said about your equipment, this is the highest performance piece. So, if it doesn’t blow you away, then over time as you upgrade other pieces you will realize it’s potential. Great decision. Enjoy. |
Your overthinking my friend, information saturation can make you crazy. My advice is to enjoy what you purchased and stop doubting yourself. Mcintosh makes exceptional equipment. After a while and a proven assessment you should expand your mind and try something else. BTW maybe even find some time to enjoy the music. |
I did exactly what you're about to do....! I bought the MC152 brand new with a pair of Sonus Faber Sonetto 8's... Brought them home.... Unpacked and set it all up and it sounded lovely...! Then, I went to another dealer nearby my home and he A/B'd that 152 with a bunch of other amps and that's when buyers remorse set in. I wound up selling the MAC and buying a Gryphon Diablo 120 instead. That's an integrated amp. Ooodles of gorgeous dark - clean - precise - tight soundstage....! Now... All that said, I've since rotated my system this past year and continue that elusive path to sonic nirvana. Go with your gut...! I LOVE the way Mcintosh gear looks...and I've owned a lot of their fab products.....but there is so much great gear out there.... I sold the Diablo 120 and bought the Diablo 300 I sold the Diablo 300 and bought an ARC 160s I'm about to buy the ARC Ref 6SE I landed on a pair of Sonus Faber Serifino's that I love with ALL the amps I've had... If your'e at all like me...this is just the beginning...! Good Luck...! |
I think most people agree that if you have doubts and as you are on a budget, then take it back as it could end up being an expensive mistake. I tend to agree you would get more benefits out of a speaker change. However if you go for the Klipsch I do not understand why people are suggesting so much power for a speaker that is 99db. A 16watt tube amp at a theoretical full volume would give you 111db. A friend of mine is driving 96db speakers with an 8watt 300b amp in a room that is 22ft by 13ft and that goes as loud as most sane people would want, and like playing my music loud! |
Hello, Go back to the store and listen to your different amp options on the speakers you have or want. You should be able to hear the different options before making the purchase. This isn’t a Ferrari that you have to buy before you can see what it can do. I don’t know why you would need more power for Klipsch speakers. Maybe these amps have different sound signatures. That’s their job to show you, not the other way around. |
Your Rotel combo and that Rotel amp looks very desirable to me. I would return the McIntosh, and try different speakers as others and you discuss. My McIntosh C28 and MC2250 were bulletproof, did nothing wrong, but ......, I prefer any of the tube amps I have owned or my friends own. Klipsch, or other efficient speakers, so that eventually you might try a tube setup. Size of your listening space? You have a small rear port now, and the curved back of the Paradigms has to be helpful with corners, reflections. the Flat box shaped Klipsch and large rear passive radiator are my only concern regarding the Forte. I designed rear ports for my custom enclosures, they were great in prior space, plugged up in current space. |
@tomic601 In fact, the 240 has a THD of about .5%. It does illustrate that specs are of little use when comparing amplifiers. Ironically, some of the most sterile and unenjoyable amps I've ever heard have extremely among the lowest rated THD specs. I do agree that the 240 is a pretty solid performance benchmark overall. |
I would not feel any remorse for owning a MC152. What a great amplifier. Bought my first McIntosh piece in 1990 and still have it...along with a lot of other Mc stuff bought over the years. Sounds like your path of audio improvements is (firmly) established based on your posts and the action of opening the sealed box and not returning the MC152. It's great to have a path / plan. There is a lot to be said (at least in my mind) about synergy between components. Finding the right McIntosh preamp will be another very nice upgrade and a great match to the MC152. Add the Klipsch cabinets that you long for when the timing is right and you'll have a fantastic system. I love horns too. Flip on some music, forget about what we all think and simply enjoy your very nice system. Congrats on the McIntosh purchase! |
McIntosh builds some of the finest equipment on the market today. Like no other brand their marketing philosophy has over the years made them who they are today. The MC 152 will give you the look but will be shy of the sound from the Mc 462 Keep in mind when you start your auditioning process the bigger the Mac the more you're going to enjoy the sound. At your current level you will enjoy the Klipsch & Rotell. IMHO I would go with the Mac when you are ready to go big. |
The most cost effective way to audio nirvana is to play the long game and make slow calculated moves. Once a new component is purchased, it takes its place and the system becomes your reference system. It will sound different than every other system out there. So then you go about characterizing what would be the next single component that would move your system the direction you want to go the most. Spend lots of time reading professional reviews. Listen to components. But always remember when at a store they don’t have the same components and the sound is the sum of the different components… interconnects also. With the Mac you are in a whole new class of product. You should be able to bring home a preamp or have the dealer bring over speakers to test. Or reconfigure a system in a listening room to be like yours. Also, a dealer that you establish a good working relationship can help you craft the sound. It makes it easier and more fun. A dealer that knows his stuff can help educate you as well. Ideally your system can be built in partnership with one ore two dealers. The best way to spend a lot of money and not enjoy the pursuit, and not end up with the system you want is to just rapidly swap components, unless you enjoy the swapping / high stakes game. But each move should result (more and more) in you getting the change you expected… meaning you are learning what different components in your system sounds like. In the last couple decades every component upgrade I have made sounded exactly as I expected it would. Even speakers I had never heard but read extensively about. |
@switchman, there are too many unknowns here for anyone to offer you solid guidance or information (e.g. dimensions of your sound room; musical tastes; speaker placement; acoustics of your sound room; etc.; etc., etc.). As such, FWIW, I offer this as general guidance: Firstly, the MC152 is a high quality $5,000 amp. Your Paradigm 800F are $2,000 speakers. I had a pair of the original Paradigm Monitor 9 fed by a MAC MA5200. That was wonderful but the Paradigm were definitely the weak link in that pairing. Generally, with quality $5,000 amplification like that MAC, I would think in terms of quality speakers in the $7,500 on up range. Your Paradigms are holding that MAC at bay. Speakers are the business end of any sound system. No matter how wonderful any of your other components are, speakers can only deliver the goods they were designed for. Secondly, MAC is very well known for conservatively rating their amps. So, avanti1960 makes an excellent point. Your MAC is quite likely really putting out closer to 190 watts into 8 ohms AND, with its autoformers, the same juice into 4 and 2 ohms, as well. In addition to watts, the current supply an amp has is just as important when it comes to proper speaker matching. In short, it's not all about the watts but also about the juice. Thirdly, I'm not certain your pre-amp is a proper match for the MC152. Generally, I find pre-amp and amp stacks of the same family perform better than mixing & matching. With this in mind, you might find a MAC MA8900 or MA7200 more to your liking, sound performance-wise. My guess is, any of those would put you into, at least, 250 watts into 8, 4 and 2 ohm territory, given MAC's conservative rating reputation and the autoformers. That's some serious horsepower; enough to drive most speakers. Have you ever noticed MAC rates THD on most, if not all, their amps at 0.005%? Truth is, some of their amps' THD is almost immeasurable. Humans can't hear anything below 1%. Below that, it's not hearing, it's feeling it. If you want to consider tubes, I've spent around 4 hours of serious seat-time with the MC275 that needfreestuff mentioned (can't remember which pre-amp but that was a MAC, too) and that is one hellaciously nice sounding amp! However, a combo like that is mucho dinero! Fourthly, my brother-in-law has spent quality time at an Audio Advice shop. He's been an audiophile for over 4 decades and knows his stuff. He tells me the store he was in didn't necessarily have their speakers set-up or placed for optimum performance. I have no reason to doubt him. Next time I go and visit him, I'm sure we'll both go visit that Audio Advice shop and I'll see & hear for myself. I'm assuming you are already aware of how to properly go about setting up critical listening sessions or demos under "controlled conditions" or as controlled as you can get them... yes? If not, this is something you should definitely familiarize yourself with in order to fairly and properly assess equipment performance. Everything will sound, at least a little and sometimes significantly different, under your own roof but a little preparation like this will help enormously in making informed decisions. Did you ask how many hours the MC152 you demoed at Audio Advice had on it (e.g. was it broken-in)? Fifthly, MAC has some of, if not the best, resale value in the business. There are many obvious reasons for this. One option would be to live with your MC152 for a while (e.g. 100 hours, or so), let it break-in properly and see what you think then. If you still have the itch, you can always trade it in for something else. I've spent about 3 hours of serious seat-time with the Simaudio Moon 340i that mrklas mentioned (with GoldenEar Triton 2+ and Martin Logan Motion 60XTi). That is one hellaciously fine sounding integrated, IMHO! However, IMO, a move from the MC152 to the Simaudio 340i would be a sideways move, at best; not an upgrade, per se. Lastly, all of this is somebody's opinion(s) and getting some direction or guidance like this is certainly helpful. The feedback you've received here is certainly good stuff! However, when you get right down to it, the only opinion that really matters is YOURS! Always let YOUR ears make the final decision! There are some audiophiles who, obviously, change or upgrade their equipment about as often as the seasons change; constantly chasing audio performance improvements, no matter how small or subtle, and there is certainly nothing wrong with that. If I had the time and money, I'd probably do it, too! There are also those who upgrade frequently to, at least in part, impress others and have bragging rights. As long as they are satisfying their own ears with the upgrades or improvements they're making in the process, that's OK, too, as far as I'm concerned. However, there is a lot to be said for just taking time to kick back, relax and listen to the music, as the Doobie Brothers would say, rather than constantly listening to your sound system. This "hobby", if you can call it that, can quickly become an obsession, making you lose sight of why you got into it in the first place, instead of the pleasure it should be. ENJOY! |
Folks, Thank you all for taking the time to respond and giving points and ideas. I really do appreciate it and that’s a good reason forums like this exist and give us great information. Now I am very happy to say I’m hearing good vibrant music from the MC152. Burn in time is only approximately 10 hours and there’s noticeable sonic change. Vocals are clearly more defined vs the Rotel. I say acoustic guitar sound is very lively and that’s driving the 800f via Rotel pre. Clearly the 152 will be the foundation of my new hifi, keeping the Heresy on top of wish list as 2nd pair of speakers. That’s my plan as long as I have the part time job. I’m retired and at 71, I only want to fund my gear from that source and not touch retirement income. Anyway, I took amp and speakers downstairs to test them out, I’m sure soundstage will be amazing. I have a 40 yr old HK integrated driving a pair of budget Elac DBR2 sounds amazing in the living room where we have wood floor and not a lot of clutter. It’s going back up to my office/bedroom/music room after as promised to the wife. I know I need to do room treatment upstairs so it’s on the list of wants and wishes. Many thanks again to everyone here, let’s all be happy and have musical enjoyment. |
I have had a MC152 for a few years now, fronted by a PremaLuna Dialogue Premium tubed preamp, driving a pair of Martin Logan ESL speakers... This, so called small, amp drives theses speakers with effortless authority and sound sublime... I would note that many MC152 amplifiers test at over 200 watts per channel in real life... Speaker placement is everything... Try REW to help with that... Enjoy your system... |
No worries on the Mac. I own something from all the brands you are talking about. I have McIntosh, Rotel amps, and receivers in the past (still use old Rotel on my rears). I own both Klipsch and Paradigm among other speakers. I have listened to all the Klipsch heritage line. The MC150 was a fine purchase. Mac will not wow you with any one sound quality but they are solid performers all around and have a sense of musicality some other brands lack. Well worth keeping and growing with. It will not be the bottle neck for along time. The only down side of mac is there are no cheap preamps. The matching C49 is $5,000. For sure the speakers and maybe the preamp are holding back the system. But I think you dodged a bullet on the heresy. They are a dumpster fire of a speaker imo. If you are going the Klipsch rout save up for the Forte IV. It is a much better speaker. It actually has bass unlike the heresy. It also sounds less boxy to my ear, less sharp in the upper mids too. Maybe even give the RP8000F a try. I know it might seem like a downgrade but it sounded pretty good on the MC462. As for Rotel vs McIntosh I find rotel brighter and harder sounding. The Mac is much more refined. The difference in amps is subtle. The speakers and room trump everything. Hersey review with Klippel measurements. https://www.erinsaudiocorner.com https://youtu.be/fRku8ACgVSc |
