As the title says, I am pondering my best options for purchasing a tube based preamp for $2k or under. Must have a remote!
Your opinions, thoughts, and expertise would be greatly appreciated. If I was spending more, I would know most of the best choices, but I'm on unfamiliar ground at this price limit. But sometimes, you can only do what you can do.
Don't forget Joule Electra. Jud is gone but Rich at Signature Sound can repair/upgrade as needed, but they are as reliable as tanks. Used LA-150s rarely come up for sale but, given that the company is no longer in business, you can get used joule gear at steep discounts when it does come up. I happily ran a 150 for years before upgrading to a LA-300, truly and end game preamp.
The Joule gear is quite special.
I have a 150 in my closet. If any interest, feel free to send me a message.
If I had seen your comment before I bought the Triode Labs Au Pre, I absolutely would have been in contact. Thanks for making me aware.
Glad you picked up a pre-amp that you are happy with! I’ve had 3 Joule pre-amps, all supremely reliable. I let my LA 100 go and really wish I had kept it. It was magical with my music reference RM-10, a great little EL 84 amp that I can't imagine ever parting with. I currently have two Joule pre-amps.
I’ve also has 3 Joule amps and they were superb, but they can be a little noisy. I’m currently running as an amp a First Watt Sit-3, which is a great match for my Quintessence prototype Shadow speakers.
I have some awareness of how exceptional the Joule stuff is. Congrats on owning one of the rare, and superb LA-300's. I do now have a quality preamp that I am more than happy with. I just need a reasonably priced Triode Lab amp or pair of mono-blocks to pair with it. I missed out on the one superchunk sold, apparently overnight. :(
The Joule amps also have always intrigued me, but I don't believe they are as reliable as the pre's? Also, size would probably be an issue for my installation.
I just have to hope the right Triode Lab power amp(s) appears while I am still alive....lol
Don't forget Joule Electra. Jud is gone but Rich at Signature Sound can repair/upgrade as needed, but they are as reliable as tanks. Used LA-150s rarely come up for sale but, given that the company is no longer in business, you can get used joule gear at steep discounts when it does come up. I happily ran a 150 for years before upgrading to a LA-300, truly and end game preamp.
The Joule gear is quite special.
I have a 150 in my closet. If any interest, feel free to send me a message.
superchunk, I just saw the ad for your Triode Lab 2a3 power amp this morning, on Canuck Audio Mart. I was waiting for the pictures you said were coming, but decided not to wait, and I was replying to it, and ready to buy it, also suggested a pickup point midway between us, but when I tried to send it, it said you were not accepting replies. Next thing I know, the page updated and I learned it was sold. I am severely disappointed :(
But best of luck with your DIY efforts going forward.
Really? Saw no mention of Manley Labs Jumbo Shrimp. And yes, I owned one for some years running with Mahi Mahi mono blocks. It was quite good and has a remote. Best of luck in your search.
Great news! A friend put me in touch with someone who works for Roon. Turns out there is an uncommonly used way of using Roon to control volume, and he helped me set it up. All is now well with the preamp I purchased!
Hey - I would send you a msg but I can't. I have the same username in the other place though.
I think mine is the prototype for the mono blocks, that's my guess, it's a dual mono stereo amp which is the only one made, and it was made just before the rsr came out.
It was far from Uber expensive which is why I grabbed it even though I diy - I like to remind myself what the best sounds like. And boy did it make me understand what real clarity, real "see through" sounds like.
Btw, there is a solution that would allow you to keep the au pre - you could add an upgraded volume control in a separate box. Would run you probably almost a grand but would also likely improve your sound quality noticeably.
Sorry, just read your last post...I'm sure the triode sounds amazing, sucks about the remote situation though.
I just suggested the Pre1, which I actually have paired with a triode labs parallel 2a3. Sounds fantastic together. I've decided to sell the triode labs though, as I'm sticking with all lab12 (modified).
Is that the VERY expensive Triode Labs Parallel 2a3 monoblocks that you have? I've heard those are simply amazing.
If I had $3,000 I would look for a used Aric Audio or Supratek preamp. However when they do go up, they only last a day or so.....if that long. You could buy a new Supratek Chardonnay for $2,500 with black powder coat, or $3,000 in a beautiful chrome finish.
Sorry, just read your last post...I'm sure the triode sounds amazing, sucks about the remote situation though.
I just suggested the Pre1, which I actually have paired with a triode labs parallel 2a3. Sounds fantastic together. I've decided to sell the triode labs though, as I'm sticking with all lab12 (modified).
I wanted to take the time to sincerely thank everyone for their recommendations and advice. Each one of your suggestions was appreciated. In some cases, such as the Modwright LS100, and a number of others, while I was leaning heavily towards those options, I could find none available that weren't considerably above my $2k budget.
Sometimes solutions pop up out of nowhere. I was just able to purchase a wonderful preamp made by Triode Lab in Canada, the Triode Lab Au preamp. I've long been an admirer of their products, and I was able to purchase it a great price from the original owner, including a complete set of NOS Mullard tubes. It sounds superb with my Aric Audio 300B SET power amp, in my system and all would be well. Except, and there is a BIG except.
I had mentioned when I began this discussion that remote control was a requirement, and it was. The equipment is in a rack across the room and, to even attempt to access it, it requires not only going all the way across the room, but also, first negotiating my way out from behind a large desk which involves very tight quarters. Add in that I have somewhat limited mobility due to two bad knees, and you can see why remote control was a necessity.
While reading through (and occasionally re-reading) all of the comments in this discussion I noted a couple people who mentioned that they had overcome the need for a remote by using volume controls built into their streaming software. All of a sudden, I thought I could go the same route, as I exclusively use Roon, and I firmly believed that it also offered volume control. I was further convinced as, when I used my iPad Pro to connect to Roon in a small system at our family place up north, there is clearly a very good volume control. I "thought" that volume control was being provided by Roon, but have now learned that it is provided by the iPad when connected to Roon. Roon, does not appear to offer any means of volume control other than via DSP, and obviously, neither my preamp, or anything in my system supports that. So, despite the great sound and performance I am getting from I have apparently completely botched things up since there is no remote way to control the preamp, as I mistakenly thought. It's pretty clear 6that I have made a major mistake that will be very difficult to rectify.
Also impacted is something I had just decided to do to assemble a dream electronics pairing. Years ago, while in Montreal at an audio show, I hear the very Triode labs preamp that I now own, paired with a set of Triose Lab's monoblocks. The sound was absolutely magical, through a pair of high efficiency speakers that I had some familiarity with. The longer I listened, the more heartbreakingly beautiful the sound was, listening to my selection of test tracks. Just this past weekend, I received a very nice influx of cash from an old friend paying off a debt of quite a few years ago. That would set me up top buy a pair of lovely Triode Lab monoblocks on the occasion when they appear, and at a semi reasonable price. I refer to amps from a few years back, not to much the very high end offerings they seem to have mostly been concentrating on recently. But the lack of remote situation seems to have also likely scuttled that dream.
I truly believed that Roon offered volume control, and I made a major mistake, and now will be paying the price.
At any rate, the failure was all mine, but I wanted to again thank everyone for taking the time to contribute to my preamp journey. It's endlessly appreciated.
The rogue rh-5 headphone amp/preamp with remote is hard to beat only 2 tubes, balanced and single ended and and very musical as well as dynamic highly recommended
A lot of my favorite ones were 6sn7 preamps. I prefer four 6sn7 preamps, 2 per channel so I can blend 2 different brands sometimes if I need to use as tone control. Ken Rads and RCA’s work well together plus many others or load it with four of the same tube.
I really enjoyed the Don Sachs with the Kootenay. Spratek is very nice. I really liked the Conrad Johnson but ones in the $2000 range may be a little fuzzy and slow great with blues and jazz but can struggle with other complex music. Audible Illusionn or Bruce Moore are nice but can be hard on tubes, I had a VTL 5.5 long ago and really in joyed it. Cary or Dennis Had are very good amps. I had an ugly black box Don Allen preamp that was very special 20 years ago I wish I would have never sold. There are some nice ones out there in your price range.
One the worst regrets I have is not listening to more seasoned Audiophiles earlier. I purchased a Conrad Johnson ls 17 last year . It has 1 year of smiles .The only other brand I would consider is ARC LS 25 or LS 26 . Both brand are built like a tank . If you want to sell or trade up no problem in finding a buyer . Buy once and cry once .
You might find an LTA MZ3 for close the $2K, for sure you can find the MZ2 at that price. And either will double as one of the best headphone amps you'll ever hear.
Bill, can you give me any sense of the Audio Horizon's tonal tendencies?
As I noted earlier in this discussion, I love the bit of warmth, depth and richness which a good tube design can bring, without being at the expense of clarity and presenting all the elements of the musical performance.
@steakster is 110% right. That Audio Horizons preamp is going to be a best buy for sound quality based on your budget. I owned one much like that one as well as many other tube preamps with retail prices up to $12,0000. The AH is the best of the bunch with with exception being the TRL Dude completely tricked out.
Bill, coming from you, that means a great deal. Thank to you I have the worlds greatest value in DAC's. And you certainly know audio equipment.
@steaksteris 110% right. That Audio Horizons preamp is going to be a best buy for sound quality based on your budget. I owned one much like that one as well as many other tube preamps with retail prices up to $12,0000. The AH is the best of the bunch with with exception being the TRL Dude completely tricked out.
This updated Audio Horizons TP 2.3sV should be of interest. It has everything that you’re looking for - including a remote.
I have a similar version. Mine is an original TP 2.3SvB with updated balanced circuitry, an R-Core transformer and larger V-Caps. It sounds great. Joseph Chow is a highly regarded audio engineer. Whoever buys this is going to very pleased.
+1 on Odyssey Candela tube pre. I believe one can be had new in your price range. It stands up nicely with big hitters, driving a Pass Labs 260.8 into Wilson Sasha DAWs in my system. Basic remote available.
I don’t know that level of detail regarding the sound ARC was going for between different generations. I have always heard that ARC is not a tubey sound but it is what I have had and never ventured out to compare with other tube models out there. There is one on US Audio Mart for $2250. Most people are willing to come down a little. It doesn’t have the original box which is a bummer but not a deal breaker. With heavy amps/preamps the original box is critical for shipping but these preamps are very light so could be well packed in a generic box if proper care is taken. I would definitely talk to the guy and get pictures of his plan. ARC puts each component in a thick clear plastic bag before going into the box. What I have done for folks over the years when I didn't have that bag is take a roll of shrink wrap from harbor freight and wrap it up really well. Have him use dense foam all around and not styrofoam peanuts...may seem like common sense but some people just don't realize or think about what can happen in transit so best to never assume.
@nightfall The VTL 2.5, 2.5i are single ended. The VTL 5.5 and 6.5 are both single ended & Balanced. Not often you will find a preamp that is balanced only, ecept for some of the ARC models.
As far as age of VTL's, most people say they are built like tanks + we forget that most gear is built to last many decades. The good stuff anyway.
I swear I'm not a VTL dealer, I'm pumping their tires plenty.:)
For what it’s worth, I had an Audio Research SP-16 and a brand new Schiit Freya + for about 3 months. I did some critical listening and some tube rolling with both. I ended up selling the Audio Research. The 6sn7 tubes were just better to my ears. And when tube rolling, the 6sn7’s made a huge difference in sound. I ended up with 2 NOS GE’s in the buffer stage and NOS Ken rads in the gain stage. A sweet Lucious tube sound. Plus it had XLR’s out for my Krell amp. The Audio Research sounded decent but it was single ended, and new production tubes versus NOS tubes didn’t really make a major difference in sound.
Really interesting comparison Robby. Thanks. The sound signature you describe is right up my alley. Certainly food for thought. And I know Mike Moffat a bit, and always enjoy supporting his efforts. I just realized, from re-reading your comments, that the Freya preamp is a fully balanced unit. Which, unfortunately,as noted in my response about the VTL’s, is an issue.
There are some out there now and they have great resale potential so if you can get one at $2k, you could always sell if you changed your mind
Good point, and fine units. But if I recall correctly, they are from the period where Audio research started working very hard to make their tubed electronics sound like solid state. I need a bit of warmth in whatever preamp I buy, that's why I choose to use tubes. I did look, though, and $2600 or so seems to be about the bottom pricing on those.
I just realized that I had forgotten the VTL's are fully balanced. Both of my amplifiers are single ended only, so another option by the wayside. Oh well, the search continues.
Just so you know, I am certainly paying attention to those of you recommending VTL preamps. I’m concerned about the age of the 2.5’s, though. I long ago heard a 5.5 in a system I knew and was extremely impressed. Those seem to be going for about $3k.
Currently there is a steal available on a 6.5, with superb NOS tubes, for only $2900.00. I might go on a three month Ramen noodle only diet, which I would need to do, to afford that, and grab that preamp, but he wants local pickup in San Diego. Aaaaargh!!!
For what it’s worth, I had an Audio Research SP-16 and a brand new Schiit Freya + for about 3 months. I did some critical listening and some tube rolling with both. I ended up selling the Audio Research. The 6sn7 tubes were just better to my ears. And when tube rolling, the 6sn7’s made a huge difference in sound. I ended up with 2 NOS GE’s in the buffer stage and NOS Ken rads in the gain stage. A sweet Lucious tube sound. Plus it had XLR’s out for my Krell amp. The Audio Research sounded decent but it was single ended, and new production tubes versus NOS tubes didn’t really make a major difference in sound.
The Supratek preamps do have remote control volume and there is a US tech for repairs or upgrades. I bought mine used on USAM and have had no issues with it. There are also plenty of owners on A’gon for questions. It’s a remarkable value for the money.
A really great sounding and quite cost-effective choice would be a used Linear Tube Audio MZ2 preamp/headphone amp (also a 1 watt amp as well). Uses two 6SN7s (or 12SN7s) and two 12au7s or 12AT7s. Would cost $1,00 to $1200 with remote volume. Might be able to find a used MZ3 for $2,000.
@nightfallLab 12 comes from Greece. It’s relatively new here. The other boutique choices have questionable presence when it comes to support. Sonics are questionable as well. In both cases you should have a plan for a scenario when you end up with a tubed paperweight. If you don’t mind it then go for the boutique stuff.
Otherwise I would stick with Rogue, Audio Research, CJ.
That Rogue RP5 on USAM for $1450 is a tremendous value. I would snatch it if I were you. https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/650151505-rogue-rp-5/
@durknYour Vtl 2.5 & 5.5 were they older models with large volume knobs or the newer series ?
I'm curious to know the difference between the VTL 2.5 & 2.5i ? wonder if it is a large upgrade. I never see the newer VTL 2.5i on the used market. I use NOS tubes on my VTL 2.5 my VTL has the small volume knob, but is still just a 2.5 not a 2.5i.made in 2013.
A VTL 5.5 brings you into a much pricer range, then It opens you to much more comparisons with expensive models like LTA Microzotl, Atma-sphere,VAC etc...
Even the newer VTL 2.5i is close to the same price as a Cary SLP-05. I would love to hear a comparison on those two models.
Sorry I'm getting away from OP topic of a used tube Pre with remote under $2K.
I just love comparing tube preamps, really changes the signature of a stereo setup.
I have a Don Sachs DS2 with remote, upgraded fuse and signal tubes, and extra rectifiers that I was going to put up for sale for $2500. If you're interested message me and we can come to an arrangement.
I own a Supratek Cabernet. Mick made it new in 2023. It is fantastic pre that performs way above it’s price. If you can find one used with remote I would recommend it highly. They are made with remotes. Johnny Slate is the USA tech located in North Carolina. Mick has been dealing with health issues of late. Last I heard 2 months ago Mick has suspended his building until his health improves. Hope he is doing well.
Lab12 makes great components priced very well. I owned their Dac1 Reference and was very impressed with the SQ and build quality.
Anyone have experience with the somewhat new LAB 12 Pre1? Its gotten consistently excellent reviews. Its $2400.00 new and they sell for about $1700.00, used.
Herb Reichert, in Stereophile, said (in a comparison with two much more expensive preamps)
"I regard all three preamps as sitting at or near the leading edge of what's possible with line-level preamplification."
I've been following your query/thread with interest because a while back I was also looking for a tube pre-amp, with remote for $2000.
If I may, I'd recommend either an ARC LS15, or a Sonic Frontiers Linestage 1 or 2. Both come with remotes and with both XLR and RCA inputs/outputs you have synergy with a large number of power amps and upstream sources. They are also both a tube rollers delight, using 6922 signal tubes and variants. Soundwise, both are slightly on the warm side of neutral. Between the two, I thought the SF had a much beefier power supply, providing a more robust sound, while the LS15 had transparency in spades. Both imaged quite well.
Something else that may interest you down the road--the ability to upgrade the capacitors and power supplies without paying an arm and a leg.
FWIW--after auditioning both the ARC and a SF 2+SE, I went with the LS-15 because it was $250 less. It was a close choice, and I would have been happy with either.
I hope you are enjoying your search. No doubt, whatever you choice you will enjoy the music!
Yeah, I'm an old tube-roller who has spent many years restoring vintage gear. IMHO, the finest pre-1970s amp I've worked with was the original Quad 2 monoblock. You can sometimes find them cheap online. I had a pair restored by the factory and it was worth every penny.
These little Class A amps have to be paired with the right speakers -- no Magneplanars, thank you! -- but when you do, they're remarkable. In my case, I used them with a restored set of original Quad ESLs. Dead friggin' quiet, fast as heck, transparent and overall, as J. Gordon once said, downright pants-wetting.
Yeah, they're not for everyone by any means, but I just wanted to add my 2c. Gear that you still remember fondly 20 years later doesn't come around too often.
I have been thinking a lot about this Supratek. Great deal. They have always had great reviews and commentary about the products. My initial concern was I had believed that Mick had shut down the business. Which I still think he did, at some point. But mofimadness notes that he is back up and operating. Still, if there were issues, Australia is a long way to have to ship something. And I don’t have a good local tech to rely on. Closest is a five hour drive to Chicago. And in the end, the real deal breaker is no remote again :(
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