Just curious what speakers you ended up pairing with your ML 585.5?
I am planing to buy 585.5 and hope to find a screaming deal too.
Best integrated for my needs????
I've recently come into some funds, and it is time to upgrade my 2 channel system to something far more serious and enjoyable. First stop is here...
Current system: Extensive digital library (FLAC)/Tidal > SOtM SMS-200 > Peachtree Nova 300 > Acoustic Zen Hollogram II > Paradigm Ref Studio 40's. This system was relatively cheap to build and has been a very enjoyable platform cost/benefit wise.
About me: Love music, don't get enough time to just relax and enjoy, time for a change. Have worked in and around the audio ODM industry, so have had a chance to listen to some amazing systems over the years, and have developed some good relationships that I will lean on once I go to purchase (F&F). I listen to mostly Jazz & Classical at modest volumes w/ periodic need to turn it up to rock out a bit. My listening room is 12'x18', with the system facing the shallow side. Prefer a bit of warmth vs totally neutral sound, but abhor muddy or noisy digital reproduction. My preference would be towards a very quiet, more neutral, fast and clean musical experience with a defined sound stage. Not looking for perfection, but want to achieve 95% w/ an easy listening (no fatigue) experience.
Budget: $20k, Leaning towards a top notch integrated as the core of my system. Will pair DAC, Speakers etc. based on the integrated I choose.
Comments/Questions on integrated's:
So I've spent a bit of time reading about the current generation of Integrated Amps (all in ones). From my reading the Luxman 509x, Accuphase E-480, Gryphon 120/300 seem to resonate. Curious about Devialet though I'm not quite sure I understand the concept, and Hegel seems to be something I should also consider.
1. What if any manf/devices, am I missing from this list?
2. What is the deal with Devialet. Is this something I should consider, if so which model?
2. Which of these is likely to be most reliable and present the best possibility for future proofing (thinking 5 year time horizon). Seems some are concerned about Gryphon's long term reliability?
3. Best bang for buck?
4. Given my preferences, and assuming I start with the amp, which system will be easiest to build around in pursuit of the musical experience I want to achieve? Most flexibility?
5. Lastly, given that it is essentially impossible to trial systems in the age of covid, is there a "safe" choice here that I can proceed without trialing, knowing that I can tweak around the Integrated with high probability of success?
Am I missing anything?
Thanks all!
Current system: Extensive digital library (FLAC)/Tidal > SOtM SMS-200 > Peachtree Nova 300 > Acoustic Zen Hollogram II > Paradigm Ref Studio 40's. This system was relatively cheap to build and has been a very enjoyable platform cost/benefit wise.
About me: Love music, don't get enough time to just relax and enjoy, time for a change. Have worked in and around the audio ODM industry, so have had a chance to listen to some amazing systems over the years, and have developed some good relationships that I will lean on once I go to purchase (F&F). I listen to mostly Jazz & Classical at modest volumes w/ periodic need to turn it up to rock out a bit. My listening room is 12'x18', with the system facing the shallow side. Prefer a bit of warmth vs totally neutral sound, but abhor muddy or noisy digital reproduction. My preference would be towards a very quiet, more neutral, fast and clean musical experience with a defined sound stage. Not looking for perfection, but want to achieve 95% w/ an easy listening (no fatigue) experience.
Budget: $20k, Leaning towards a top notch integrated as the core of my system. Will pair DAC, Speakers etc. based on the integrated I choose.
Comments/Questions on integrated's:
So I've spent a bit of time reading about the current generation of Integrated Amps (all in ones). From my reading the Luxman 509x, Accuphase E-480, Gryphon 120/300 seem to resonate. Curious about Devialet though I'm not quite sure I understand the concept, and Hegel seems to be something I should also consider.
1. What if any manf/devices, am I missing from this list?
2. What is the deal with Devialet. Is this something I should consider, if so which model?
2. Which of these is likely to be most reliable and present the best possibility for future proofing (thinking 5 year time horizon). Seems some are concerned about Gryphon's long term reliability?
3. Best bang for buck?
4. Given my preferences, and assuming I start with the amp, which system will be easiest to build around in pursuit of the musical experience I want to achieve? Most flexibility?
5. Lastly, given that it is essentially impossible to trial systems in the age of covid, is there a "safe" choice here that I can proceed without trialing, knowing that I can tweak around the Integrated with high probability of success?
Am I missing anything?
Thanks all!
57 responses Add your response
Quick update, to close the loop. I found a screaming deal on a Mark Levinson 585.5 in my area which was too good to pass up. I must admit I am really surprised how much it has improved my modest system line up as is. Really an amazing improvement in sound quality and enjoyment. Now looking to narrow down speakers for the system. Thoughts on good pairings? |
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Lots of good suggestions so far. I have a McIntosh MA7900 that I am very fond of. It has a ton of features and sounds great to my ears with two very different sets of speakers (Klipsch Cornwall and KEF LS 50). Some things to think about other than sound -- how important are different features? For instance, do you want a built in DAC? Do you want the ability to hook up two different sets of speakers (Luxman)? Do you want tone controls? Do you want built in room correction (Anthem)? Do want a balance control (a must for those of us with uneven hearing and/or challenging rooms)? Answering those type of questions should help you narrow the list. Good luck! |
With this absolute in mind, I need to refresh my initial question. What are my best options for (ethernet enabled) DAC/Amp combo or Integrated Amp (ethernet input enabled) in the sub $15K range (new).darTZeel LHC-208. |
There's a unique match with Magico and Devialet centered on their common approaches to phase coherency. Without doubt some of the very best, state of the art sound and best used value is Devialet D440 with Core Infinity paired with Magico S5 Mk1. Synergistic Research cables make a match made in heaven. |
PS: I should add that the one thing I have some domain expertise in is TCP/IP and networking. My LAN is well built with a good switch, all input devices will have quality power input/conditioning etc. The DAC/amp will receive clean bit/bytes with low latency and very low packet loss. As colorless as possible to the amp seems to be the objective. Let the amp / speakers do their jobs impart their respective color? |
@bigkidz thanks, I may do that thanks! Along those lines, I’d like to update this thread for future generations of audiophiles looking to build a quality home system that will rely entirely on digital sources, who want to avoid an aneurism or divorce (or both in my case). One thing I am realizing is that my initial instinct to look at the DAC/Amp stage first was probably a good one. My (future) system is going to be entirely digital up to the DAC/AMP or Integrated AMP stage. The rathole that is USB networked audio, is IMO just that. The machinations that this industry has gone through to make USB transport audiophile quality is really dysfunctional IMO. My sources are going to either be locally stored files on a music server or streamed content from Tidal/Qobuz/AMZN, period. I will not have an analog source in my system now or likely in the future. Because my sources will be entirely digital and streamed across WAN/LAN the obvious means of transport are ethernet, duh. With this absolute in mind, I need to refresh my initial question. What are my best options for (ethernet enabled) DAC/Amp combo or Integrated Amp (ethernet input enabled) in the sub $15K range (new). Must admit the Hegel is looking much more attractive at this point. |
If you want something special that IMO sounds better then the above recommendations contact Vinnie Rossie about his integrated amp. Also can come with a built in DAC. What do I like besides the obvious sound, well the build quality, and DHT design. I build DHT designs and the sound is above standard designs IMO. Happy Listening |
So....why can't the high-end industry build a decent linear all-in-one integrated for budget consumers? They know what kind of circuits sound good. Why not build a basic version of these designs using cheap but not-awful parts, use simple casework, keep it lightweight -- use a fan if needed. Use a simple IC-based line stage and slap in a Chinese DAC card or one of their own units. Sell it for $500 MSRP. Why must they shove class D junk at them? It doesn't have to be high-current, just enough to run people's cheap bookshelves in a decent manner. So why can't someone make a decent little class A integrated at that price point? |
Another choice is to get an amp with dac built-in. Then you only need to add a streamer and a pair of speakers. I've heard a Bryston B135 cubed with a dac card connected to Orangutan O/93 speakers and really liked it. Hegel 590 also has a dac. Or go all in one with active speakers with a dac like Kii 3 or Dutch&Dutch. Kii 3 is around $17k and all you need to add is a streamer. |
I would suggest starting with some excellent speakers and there are quite a few. The Tannoy Prestige speakers are very nice and beautiful also, QLN Prestige 3 are very highly rated. As far as excellent integrateds either the Raven Audio BlackHawk or the Raven Audio Osprey are outstanding as is the Moonriver 404 Reference amplifier, but a really nice amplifier can only do so much it's the speakers that do the heavy lifting. |
sangbro has got it. Luxman or Pass. As you mentioned the Luxman 509x... I have it and it's a wonderful integrated. I listen to everything, jazz, classical, rock, hardcore punk, various ethnic music, electronic, and more. It is both clear and bright, yet warm and smooth. It is neutral while also seamlessly meshing with the recording it's playing in a way that suits it best. I love horns and have Cornwall IV's that pair perfectly with the 509X. Used or new, they'll fit within your budget. Because of COVID, my budget was tightened (started building system in February) and so currently using a Bluesound Node and Cambridge Audio AXC35 CD player as sources. Neither is high end but are still quality enough that my system delivers much joy. There's so much great gear out there, try before you buy if possible. But most recommendations here should help give you suggestions to try. |
Something to consider is the analog side. If analog is in the discussion AT ALL the above scenario gets tossed real quick. You’ll need to decide on what you will “listen” to, analog or digital, or both. If both, add at least 5-10k to the above. And trust me, budget for cables and power management, probably a third of your budget or more. Everything matters. |
I should clarify that my budget is $20K for entire system. I anticipate that the budget for the Integrated amp at somewhere around $9-10k. Leaving me 10K for DAC, Speakers etc. I am am likely to buy some used components to be efficient with my monies. With a $20k budget for the whole system you don't spend half on the amp, not if you want to be "efficient with my monies." What you do is more like $3k for a Raven Blackhawk, $3k to maybe $5k for Tekton Double Impacts or Moabs, and then you have a good $12k to $14k for your source, speaker cables, interconnects, and power cords. That answers your question about which "devices" you're missing. Speaker cables, power cords, and interconnects are every bit as important as the amp. If you don't believe me, get a $12k Raven Reflection and a $3k Raven Blackhawk, use a $4k Synergistic Atmosphere Level III Euphoria interconnect on the Blackhawk and a patch cord on the Reflection. Your total cost with the Blackhawk/Synergistic will be less but sound better. The exception would be if instead of a whole system one and done this really is just the starting point, you plan on spending the next 5 years or more patiently thoughtfully improving everything, and you would like to start off with a statement or Grail type amp as the centerpiece or anchor. In that case its the Raven Reflection, hands down, and for probably more like 20 years than just five. That's a pretty good plan by the way. If that's what it is. |
I see no consideration for Tube integrated amps. I had Raven Reflection MK2 tube amp. It cost around 12k. This amp dreove Sonus Faber Amati Tradition Homage speakers beautifully and they are fantastic to look at. They are made in the USA out of Texas and they have a full 45 day trial period. I bet if you called Raven ----either Dave Thomson and James Connel and tried one of their integrated amps you would not return it. Outstanding 24 hour customer service and some of the rarest tubes out for tube swapping. |
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ratbastrd - I heard a demo of a Devialet integrated going on 2 years ago. It was fine but probably not that much better than your Peachtree you currently have. Perhaps they have gotten better but $12,500 for a refurbished 440 Pro? No way. Again, I'd take a serious look at the new $5,000 NAD M33 if you are looking for current technology. |
Hey ratbastard (gotta love that user ID) - They are hard to find right now but check-out the NAD M33. It’s getting rave reviews, costs $5,000, includes a very nice streamer, DAC, user interface, DIRAC live, MQA and most importantly a 200w/ch amplifier section based on the Purifi Class D module. NAD made good choices on using the latest technology in my opinion. That will leave you $15K (plus what you make by selling your other equipment) for speakers. There are a lot of great speakers in that price range which is another discussion! |
@ratbasrd
I listen to mostly Jazz & Classical at modest volumes w/ periodic need to turn it up to rock out a bit.I thoroughly recommend the MF Nuvista series 6000 (or (8000); it sounds good, it's reasonably priced. and has dynamics and sonic intergity you need for classical and jazz. You will need to spend much more to seriously improve on this model (CH precision, Soulution, etc). I tried it at home and oreferred it to the Hegel 190 (which is also great product).Otherwise, the Lux mentioned above and the Pass may be your cup of tea -- however, best to give these a listen. |
The big Hegels are excellent, and good all in one system. The H-390 at around 5-6k is hard to beat anywhere in that price realm. The Gryphon would be great, but most of your budget will get chewed up on that unit alone. Simaudio is worth a look too. Leaves an even bigger budget for all the goodies. Keep in mind, you will need to budget a decent portion for cables and other toys depending on what you want for the final sources, setup and what not. 20k goes quick when your primary start is 10+, especially if an analog setup is in the discussion. |
