Dear @jeffreyw ; I think that the Wilson ( I listened and listened the D3 not D4 B&W ) is not clinical and anemic it's that the B&W goes deeper in the bass and gives a little more " body " to the overall MUSIC presentation.
The other issue could be that the Sabrina just does not likes the Mackintosh auto-formers , me neither.
Both speakers designs are very good and each one needs to be mated with the " rigth " electronics and in a good treated room. The other issue is that each one of us have different MUSIC home targets in MUSIC reproduction.
TRegards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.
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The MAC needs to be on the 2 ohm tap for the wilson’s to be optimal but really should not matter.
I had the older 802D3 and the Sophia 3 in the same room/system for a direct comparison. On that day I liked the 802D3 better for similar reasons you mnetioned. But B&W can be hard to live with due to the peak in the mids and treble. They get fatiguing and harsh with some lesser music. I think I would enjoy the Wilson more longterm.
I have also heard the 803d2 and Sabrina, I think both needs subs and have some issues in their price range. There are better speakers out there for less money.
Wilson raising the price in 2025 lol… no thanks… I was once a wilson fan too but their prices are down right silly now for what is kind of average sound quality in their price range.
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I suspect that the amp is the problem. Mac's "house sound" isn't a good match with the highly resolving Willies.
It could also be speaker placement. Wilsons seem to come alive it the perfect placement- more so than others I've auditioned.
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Hi OP,
First, really happy that you found what you were looking for. If you put Mc + B&W together and you like that sound I doubt anything else would make you happy.
However, to me, this is a very colorful combination which I would not be happy with at all.
My experience with late model Wilsons is they have plenty of bass with the right amp in the right room when the resistors and jumpers are configured correctly. I doubt the Mc’s would be the right amp for them.
Not saying you should have bought Wilsons and Luxmans instead, but that your personal preferences kind of made your purchase inevitable.
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I had the exact same experience! I was basically there to make the comparison and leave with the Wilson's, but ruled them out and moved on to compare the 803d4 to other speakers before getting them. I listened through Ayre equipment and tried a Mac source before switching to all Ayre. We changed speaker cables and interconnects, moved the listening chair, etc. All of these changes modified the wilson sound a bit more than the 803d4s, but in all variations my ears found the 803d4 to be much more realistic and true to the music. I think the Wilsons were great at what they did, but it was not the sound (in that room with that equipment) that I look for. Bands I have seen regularly sounded very precise but the singer sounded like someone with a slightly higher, drier voice doing an impression of them. Acoustic guitars sounded slightly tuned up and lost their earthiness, as if the air got taken out of the guitar body- but once again very precise and dynamic. Cymbals had a marvelous shimmer but the strike of the cymbal was presented as another instrument further back in the soundstage... i spent much of the time with the Wilsons following every instrument and sound throughout the room, but being distracted by guessing why each of them did not sound quite "right" to me. Perhaps a sub would have helped, but not in my room or budget. Until I saw your post I was thinking that it might have all been in my head, or a hearing issue. Regardless, I have been thrilled with my ultimate purchase, even in my non-ideal listening room.
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I am lucky to live in a city with several brick and mortar hifi stores so am able to audition speakers in person. When I was shopping for new speakers a few years ago, I found that the disconnect between what many reviewers liked and what I thought sounded musical was considerable. I had a list of what I wanted to hear in hand up to, a certain price level ($!0,000)
I found many speakers played well above their price level and many below. I suggest you keep an open mind and audition all you can .
Feel free to disagree, but you should be able to get good bass with a budget of $25,000 to spend on your primary speakers unless you have a huge room and/or you are looking for big bass effects for a home theatre. I have owned many speakers with multiple 5-7 inch drivers in a tower configuration as has been so popular over the last several decades. They do a good job of getting bass out of a small footprint, they integrate well into a room and usually have good WAF but they won’t give you the same experience as speakers with a bigger diameter woofers
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Trust your ears! Wilson makes great speakers and I don't many of their models to other brands (I do think the new Watt Puppys are incredible but they are also almost $40k).
The amplification does have an impact on the sound - if you don't own Mc I wouldn't use Mc amplification as a proxy. I've owned Mcs and they were very enjoyable to me - there is a house sound and I think that house sound matches B&W very well.
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I agree that the amps probably helped, however, I listened to a pair of B&W bookshelf's this weekend and was impressed. Still voiced a bit higher than I prefer, but nothing annoying or wrong. Clear with an engaging mid-range.
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If you want British done well, you could do worse than hop across the county border from Sussex to Kent, to the old Kent Engineering and Foundry where KEF speakers are designed. If you are technical, read the 40-page White Paper on the Reference Series. This is science in practice.
B&W are great at finishing cabinets, but personally I have never heard B&W speakers I really like, though I have yet to hear the Nautilus!
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I got to compare the B&W 805 D3 to the original Joseph Audio Pulsars, and to my ears the Pulsars were superior across the board. Better imaging and more 3D soundstage, tonality, bass, treble, and overall just more musical without sacrificing air/detail along with a better disappearing act. The 805s just sounded less accomplished and clinical by comparison — but again that’s my ears. All this to say if you can hear the JA Perspective 2s somewhere it’d be well worth your while. FWIW, and best of luck.
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I have tried both B&W 805 D3 and Wilson Sabrina X. Ended up with Revel Ultima Salon 2 and cannot be more happy listening to jazz, art rock, ang large scale classical music. My amps are McIntosh MC452 and Parasound JC 1+.
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I have always been impressed with the combination of the B&W 803 line with Mac amplification. Together, they present a very smooth and musical experience. The Mac sound can be on the warm side and the B&Ws can be a bit forward in the midrange and lower treble. Together, their strengths are reinforced and their weaknesses obscured. If you are a Mac fan, the B&Ws are hard to beat.
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I was shopping for speakers about a year ago and I listened to the Wilson Sabrina X and the B&W 804. I ended up with a tube amp and hi efficiency speakers so that gives you some idea of my preferences. The dealer I went to only played the Sabrina's with top Audio Research and Naim electronics. I was only impressed listening with the AR, but that equipment cost at least 4x's the cost of the speakers so I think that was a big part of what I was hearing. For my ears the B&W's sounded too bright and harsh. I also listened to the Magico A5 speakers and I liked them much better. I would have bought the A5's but the WAF ruled them out.
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For a long time Iam not a fan of Wilson speakers until I heard them with Dan Agostino s amp and preamp I was blown away.Both B&W and Wilson are great speakers it’s your job to match them with the right components.
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Not at all surprised by your findings. We don’t all share the same size/shape/age ears. Nor do we all share the same language and dialect (which does affect how we perceive sounds). So it shouldn’t come as a huge surprise that we don’t share the same preferences. The Toole school would like us to believe that’s the case but it’s not—probably the reason for why B&W doesn’t bother to make flat measuring speakers any longer.
B&W’s 800 series employs one of the best tweeters in existence, which goes a long way in mitigating listener fatigue despite the tipped up response.
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@OP - If that is how the Sabrina Xs sounded, they were not set up properly.
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I have not heard the B&W's, although I had 805's at one point. However, the Sabrina X's in my system definitely do not sound as you describe it. I have a Pass 250.8 and an ARC REF 6 pre to drive them, and to my ears, the combination is the perfect mix of width and depth of soundstage, black background and great placement of instruments. The Wilsons just do it right in my system and small music room. I think that that treble is smooth -- perhaps too smooth when coupled with the McIntosh gear. Just goes to show that everything makes a difference, and it is really difficult to compare the sound of one system with an entirely different system.
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As a few others have said, McIntosh and Wilson are not a great match. I have heard this combo for a couple of decades with different Wilsons and different McIntosh products.
For my tastes, and I will state here, that I am not a Wilson fanboy, Wilson with a better matching amp, will sound better, than McIntosh with the B&W.
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@simonmoon In my experience and via my dealer etc, Wilson and D’Agostino are two very good matches for Wilson. I have the Sabrina X with a MA8950. I was split between the 803 D4 and the Sabrina X. I strongly went in planning to go 803 but the Sabrina X blew it out of the water. The McIntosh has a lot of power which is what the Wilson’s want. Wilson will often demo their speakers using McIntosh Amps. Cables matters as well. Wilson uses Transparent Cable internally and often for demo's.
Based on how highly the Sabrina X is reviewed, I would make sure the setup at your dealer was ideal. The Sabrina definitely goes lower than the 803 since it has an 8in woofer vs 7in in the 803. I also found the 803 tweeter to be very harsh to the point I wanted to turn it off. Maybe listen at another dealer or have them check the setup. I should add that I listened to the 803’s at multiple dealers and all the same had meh sound. I also own the 805’s (pre-diamond tweeter). It's likely all personal preference though to our own ears :)
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I agree th Wilson's demand power mine run on 1.2 kw mac for the wilson max.even though they avertise you can run a low wattage tube amp.also if you want base get a big woofer.even though smaller 7 inch 8 inch are faster due to less mass on the cone they have a hard time moving alot of air.amps cabels have to match impedance and inductance of speakers.thats why some get more synergistic than others.enjoy the search and expirements find the sound you like.
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I used to love B&W. It’s the speaker line that was in nearly every reputable brick-and-mortar stereo shop when I was growing up. I dreamed of owning a Mac and B&W system. Then I got one. The Mac amp’s watt meters gave up on me within a month of usage (I actually had to hire a tech to come to my house to fix it), and the bright/forward presentation of the B&W 804 D2’s drove me insane. I came up with my own meaning for B&W - “Blow and Wow”. They “blow” you away with their forward presentation and “wow” you with detail when you first listen to them. And Mac is the only gear that is soft, powerful, and forgiving enough to make these speakers sound tolerable. I think that’s one of the reasons they’re often sold together. Anyway, I will give B&W props for one speaker, and that’s the 805. The 805 always has been the best sounding B&W speaker I’ve ever heard, regardless of the equipment, cables, etc., that might be hooked up to it. It’s gone through many iterations over the years, and to me it has remained one of the standards for two-way, stand-mounted speakers. That being said, I, too, auditioned the Wilson Sabrina X, along with AudioVector R3 Arrete, Dynaudio Confidence 20 and 30, and a pair of the newer Wilson Sasha V’s, all powered by a Gryphon Diablo 333. One of my favorite speakers of all time was the Wilson Sophia 3, so I thought I would be sold on the Wilsons. However, I found the Sabrina’s and the Sasha’s to be dull, lifeless, and analytical. I was really disappointed with them. The AudioVector’s were incredible, but a little too bright for me. The Dynaudio’s were hands-down the best speakers I’ve heard in a very long time. Smooth, lively, detailed, and so easy to listen to. I chose the Confidence 20’s because I didn’t hear enough difference between those and the Confidence 30’s to justify the price difference. And I could get a Dynaudio sub 6 to go with them to complete the setup. Awesome. I guess the moral of this long story is that the most popular and/or expensive speakers are often not the best or easiest speakers to LIVE with. Expand your horizons. Happy hunting.
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