My point is that I conducted a hearing shootout and heard a difference , some equipment is easier to do a/b or a/b/c/d testing . Using an electrical box that holds 4 outlets made the experiment easy , I've done hearing experiments with fuses on a guitar amp and multiple power cords connected to my amplifier .
As a retired Biomedical equipment technician I once thought that an outlet was just an outlet other than the Medical Grade outlets had a firmer grip and much heavier body , that a fuse was just a fuse and a power cord just needed to be the correct gauge and jacket . The only time extra filters were needed was when using EEG and EKG equipment . But as an audiophile I learned that differences can be heard with any change made, that doesn't mean that you need an outlet that is the most expensive , a fuse that cost more than a good bottle of Scotch or a power cord that cost as much as a used car to hear a difference or improvement .
Gold plating and Rhodium over Silver plating does have a effect , subtle but there .
So much of this one has to hear it to believe it , just I learned through trial and error.
After reading this, I'm glad I got some of those Cryo'd Porter Ports all those years ago when he used to sell them here, on A'gon. From what I remember, they sounded better, gripped great, and I've never looked back. And, they were reasonably priced (I believe they set me back about $24 apiece).
I never said that you werent going to be able to miss the sonic difference and it is this type of sarcasm that gives me pause. ! I dont know anything about your system nor your hearing ability so I cant comment. There is no hard science just a myriad of testimonials from people that claim they can hear a difference. The question to ask yourself is if you cant measure something does this eliminate the possibility that this something could exist? Remember that many on this forum have systems that cost more than a car and approach or exceede the cost of a house. To think that the level of fidelity is the same, regardless of price, is ridiculous.
@vair68robert@audition__audio What I'm asking for is some hard science to explain how an outlet, placed before the power conditioner, phono preamp, preamp, amp and speaker can have any impact on the sound. All of the equipment has filters to scrub out noise and interference. I'm not aware that electricity has a tonal component? The idea that gold plating vs rodium plating could actually change the sound coming from a speaker is just a little hard for me to wrap my mind around. And it's not that I have already made up my mind and therefore would not hear the difference, as audition_audio suggests, since the improvment will be so undeniable that I would not be able to miss it?
My gut feeling is no one would be able to hear the difference between a $3 standard house outlet and a $300 audiophile plug. Just saying......"bigtwin"
If you had read my 1st post you would have learned that I heard a difference when testing 4 different plugs from a low of $25 to a middle price of $150 , aural memory is short so to test 4 outlets they were placed in a 4 gang box , so after the amp was warmed up for 1/2 hour i would play a song , turn the amp off and plug into another outlet and repeat after testing all 4 outlets I tried a different song and repeated , this was done along with a professional guitar player whose hearing is way better than mine and we both could hear differences .
We both use AudioQuest , that's not to say that Furutech or Oyaide aren't better but we weren't out ot test outlets , we just used what we had around , the PS Audio now sends Ac to my TV .
A firm contact is important but the purity of the copper , the platings also make a difference , one you can hear .
I was surprised at the improvement when I put Shunyata SR-Z1 outlets in to replace the standard home wall outlets. Clearer and fuller sound. Maybe because they grip better or use better materials, but either way I'm happy with them.
Well failed tweeks of other types should have no bearing on how you approach AC outlets. I cant comment on Fukuda-sans take on different plating, but I will say that I have always favored copper on copper. Like metals so on.
I think that the real advantage of better plating may be in the smoothness and lack of pits in the metal itself which would be accomplished by polishing. The grip of the socket as well and the material with which the socket is made. The influence of vibration and resonance on electrical items is well known.
I wouldnt expect you to hear a difference as it appears you already know what the results of your test will be. Oh and just replacing your stock outlet with a Hubbell I dont think will give you much of an improvement. Going from a stock outlet to a Furutech, Oyaide or Cruze First might. Now if you hear a difference or not comes down to many things not even remotely related to basics like hearing acuity and predisposition.
Someone please explain these Furutech claims to me. All the wall plug is doing is passing electricity from the main power cable to the plug on my amp or power conditioner. That power than travels through various filters in my equipment, is transformed and eventually a very small amount goes into my speakers. How, within all the known laws of physics, can the wall plug alter the sound coming from my speakers. Really? The three different coatings on the plug are going to give me three different sounds from my system? Explain this to me in a way that is understandable. Thank you.
Choosing Rhodium versus Gold Plating
Japanese audio commentator, Masamitsu Fukuda says the following on the different plating options:
“The new Rhodium plating offers high resolution, transparent and precise sound. The high signal-to-noise ratio delivers greater contrasts across the entire frequency spectrum along with tight and precise bass. Rhodium especially excels in the high frequencies which are detailed and clear. Overall rhodium yields a super responsive, delicate, expressive and neutral sound…”
“Gold plating is ideal for enthusiasts who prefer a flowing, somewhat warm and softer sound. With a slightly thicker layer of gold plating than before the sound is a touch more precise allowing a stable soundstage and a smoother tonal balance. With better response and dynamics the new cable yields a detailed, powerful bass and an overall expressive sound….”
“The unplated copper reveals none of the characteristics of the rhodium- or gold-plated versions. It is full of vitality and energy with powerful bass and midrange texture so some people will find this model very interesting indeed. There is a slight tendency towards brightness in the midrange but the clarity yields a very special vibrancy to the sound. It sounds very attractive with full-range dynamic music like jazz…”
My comment is based on the many other upgrades I have paid for, and heard no difference at all. But I will in fact go out and buy a better plug, and wait to be blown away by the sonic improvement in my system. 🤣
And until to try you will never know. Gut feelings count for nothing when having a conversation about sonic differences. If these differences are real or imagined wont be know until an attempt to validate is made. This is the point at which those that experiment and hear a difference often have an advantage over those that guess there is no difference.
Yet one more product I would like to see in a blind testing. My gut feeling is no one would be able to hear the defference between a $3 standard house outlet and a $300 audiophile plug. Just saying......
For those of you that maybe considering buying a spec grade or better Hubbell duplex receptacle you need to do your homework before buying. About 10 to 15 years or so ago Hubbell starting changing and adding a cheaper line to their product. Example is their Hubbell-Pro line. I would not install a Hubbell-Pro outlet to feed my audio equipment. The biggest issue I have with the outlet is the ferrous steel supporting backstrap used. From my experience and countless others the steel strap adds grain to the sound presentation of the audio equipment. Grain will impact the clarity of the high frequencies.
Also avoid a Hubbell Spec grade or better outlet that has a nickle plated brass supporting backstrap and nickle plated brass contacts The nickle plating has ferrous materials in it and causes grain in the sound presentation. Not as bad as a steel backstrap though.
Here is an example of a good spec grade extra heavy duty hubbell outlet
This must be a NOS 20 amp Hubbell Hospital Grade duplex receptacle. It appears, looking at the photo, the supporting backstrap is non nickle plated brass. If interested before buying I would contact the seller to verify the backstrap is non nickle plated brass and the contacts are non nickle plated. From the round center 6/32 hub ,for supporting the wall cover plate, the outlet is the Slender/Compact body design.
@rsf507 Glad you had the opportunity to get your hands on various premium outlets and develop your own viewpoint . That's a pretty strong commitment in time and energy (literally). I'll simply say that the AQ Edison got me from zero to 60 in about half a second and validated the product category as "legitimate" in my audio world. Your comments opened the prospects of other options in the future.
@boxcarmanEvaluating components in your home in your system is the final frontier to determine where/how your disposable income is spent. While the cost of time and energy to install premium wall outlets is high greater than many potential upgrades, many on this forum are solidily convinced that they are a worthwhile consideration. I can't say with 100% certainty that a property installed premium wall outlet will make an audible difference in your system. I'll just say I'll take a "conservative approach" and say that I'm only 98% certain you'll like the result.
Starting at the front end. And a balanced system is the way if anything is ahead of the rest best if it is at the front. Speakers cannot reproduce signals they don't receive.
Sorry - sarcasm was intended. I use higher end receptacles just because. Can I hear a difference, probably not. Some of this stuff I just use in case I might be missing out on something, but I certainly do not sit around doing A/B comparisons or obsessing over the result. My general order of the factors I believe make the most noticeable improvement/difference in the sonic quality of a home audio system goes like this: speakers, electronics, room, supports/isolation/damping, cables, and finally other doo-dads and add-ons. The receptacles fall somewhere between cables and doo-dads - IMO.
How many are you replacing? If you are talking about the whole house, almost any good 20 amp Pass/Seymour, Hubbell, etc. with a nylon body will be a large improvement over those bags full of duplex outlets for ten-twenty bucks used by most builders. The difference? Friends, I know who bought homes new here, after 12-18 months the receptacles would start to sag when you plug into them. My parent's home, an old English Tudor, clay tile roof, copper gutters, still have these ancient looking brown Hubbell outlets in the basement from the ’50s, early 60s, and to my amazement, there is tight as anything made today.
I second what @sandthemall said. "Hospital grade" receptacles are built to higher mechanical - not electrical - characteristics. They are designed not to fail from heavy usage, not to break or to release a plug if it is yanked inadvertently.
Hospital receptacles power equipment that is typically far more sensitive and expensive than a stereo set up, equipment which, should it fail or falter, could have life-threatening consequences.
Spending hundreds or thousands of dollars on an outlet, beyond one that has good solid connections and has sufficient amperage rating, will not provide any improvement, electrical, audible or otherwise. An exception might be for an isolated ground, if that is indeed a problem in your space, i.e., you’re having trouble with ground loops.
None of those high end models are any better. I tried everything. Your only goal is a high clamping force. Get some Hubbell hospital grade outlets for $16. Nothing sounds better, and they may be worse. Tellurium alloys are junk. Get a conduction chart for copper alloys and you will be shocked. Stick with as pure a copper alloy as you can get. Then you can afford to put more everywhere.
Yes you are correct it is a huge difference in resolution, frequency extremes, detail. And you are right as big as an equipment upgrade. Myself I bought my first one because it was on a good sale and it was a jaw dropping change I then order enough others to change out the rest of my plugs in my main system. It is hard for people to do is spend that kind of money on a receptacle and in my opinion that is why people doubt it. It seems like a crazy amount but once a person has tried it no going back. For all that have doubts just try one and in fact if you don't like it I am sure you can get over half your money back reselling it. When you take that into consideration the cost of trying one and not liking it is about the cost for two people going to a restaurant and having dinner. When thought about in that way it is easier to spend the money. I highly doubt many people will sell except if they try another brand and keep the one they like best.
Yes you are right it is a major improvement just hard to believe that it can be that much better. I am a firm believer in them and hope that all audiofiles that are on the fence just go try one.
mitch 2, maybe it is my 68 year old ears, but I could not tell the difference on some A/B comparisons. There were some other so-called upgrades that never panned out as well, like lifting speaker cables off the floor or record clamps, which actually seemed to bleed the life out of my records. So what do they improve besides making sure you have enough juice?
Another vote for Furutech. In my situation, outlet and cover from a dedicated line, and male end replacement to my power conditioner. Don't underestimate the value of a spring-loaded grip on the female receptacle on the outlet, just enough for contact, but doesn't damage the metals...clever.
As for "the divide": "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." Let your ears decide. More Peace, Pin
And also important to use nice receptacles in power conditioners as well, for my
BPT Sig 3, Oyaide R1 and PorterPorts as well. And then we have IEC's, these can also be changed out as well, Furutech makes some nice ones, some with filters.
I renovated a retirement cottage last year and completely re-wired the listening space with 10-gauge cryo'd ROMEX from VH Audio and used Pangea outlets. Both were a great addition to start this room. The Pangea outlets have a very strong grip and are well-made. Highly recommended ! No need to spend huge $$$ for other name brands, in my opinion...
@sidvicious88- this is the very point most miss, thank you for your post : ) - I realised over time that no matter what is chosen for a wall receptacle, that another joint/contact/bridge was merely introduced into the power chain, to loss of sound quality. It was a slow discovery begun with gradual upgrading, and to small improvements over each step; from the stock receptacle my electrician had originally provided, to hospital grade, then to synergistic research orange, and finally to the Furutech NCF-gtx receptacles, that the improvements seemed endless. Then, a super audiophile friend from Japan told me that the biggest problem with receptacles is not only that they add to the chain of degrading connections, but that they are not shielded, at all. This shielding is the most vital aspect to the prevention of EMF intrusion at the weakest link of the power chain, which is wherever a bridge is - wherever bare wires meet screws, or connectors need to be used. So I got a Furutech ep609/NCF unfiltered power distributor, that has three twin receptacles which are GTX/NCF outlets themselves, and is shielded entirely, except for where it’s receptacles show on its face, and hardwired the entire thing, ie, each of its three receptacles, with dedicated 10gauge lines of Furutech CB10 wires directly from my distribution board, mounting the unfiltered distributor directly into my wall as a three receptacle, six plug wall outlet. Provided one’s power supply to the mains has already been attended to, this set up has lifted my sound quality in ways no ‘box’ ever has. I have since added another ep609/NCF for my needs. The cost for the entire upgrade has equalled the cost of a PS Audio p12, but to such a margin of better sound quality in my system that it stunned me. Please understand, this is no petty critique of the p12, which is a very very well designed and excellently performing power regenerator that I still use in another system. @retiredfarmer - your comment on the cryo treated circuit breakers is an important one, since the circuit breaker is simply another ‘bridge’ in the power chain. A German company makes an excellent one - ABL/sursum.
Furutech gtx-D (G) x 2, and 1 gtx-D (R). luv em. got them for a good price, but not the good deal kgturner got with the plates and frames. wonder if that deal still exists...?
Clamping strength and the metals and plating used are probably the two biggest factors in how an ac receptacle might possibly affect sound. I am a proponent of copper, especially since all the wiring in front of the receptacle and probably the power cord after are copper. Beryllium copper is a copper alloy, of which there several. Copper alloys can improve on certain properties of raw copper, such as strength, hardness, and machining properties. However, copper alloys are less conductive than raw copper and beryllium copper is only about 45 percent as conductive as copper (i.e., 45% of IACS). Tellurium copper is probably the most conductive copper alloy at about 93 percent of IACS. Beryllium copper is commonly used in spring contacts, hence ac receptacles. Furutech uses a special nonmagnetic Stainless Steel Conductor Spring System that allows them to use pure copper conductors.
@dznutz - I haven't used Furutech, nor for that matter any other "boutqiue" outlet; I use industrial grade outlets , so I am asking this for information purposes -
What is the basis for your statement Furutech outlets are the only ones that will not damage connectors?
What other "boutique" outlets have you tried that caused damage, why, and what type of damage?
Im surprised no one has mentioned the damage that recepatcle can cause to the spades on your expensive cables. Furutech’s are the only ones that will not damage your connectors. Take that for what its worth to you.
I use the Audioquest NRG Edison receptacle made of beryllium copper. "Audioguy85"
I use Cardas AC outlets. "robert53".
Both are as god as and $100 less than Furutech and Oyaide .
Piss your money away. Hospital grade is all you need. "jerryg123"
Medical grade plugs are great especially for the price but after doing a shootout using a 4 outlet box a basic Pangea came in last followed by a double cryoed medical grade , then a PS Audio and the winner was Audioquest NRG Edison .
Most of us would have a line conditioner with multiple receptacles on it. If you were just to change the wall receptacle to one of those grippier ones, wouldn’t it make sense to replace all the receptacles in your system to fully take advantage of loose or questionable receptacles.
Some of you should check what the defining attribute of a hospital grade receptacle actually is. It has nothing to do with aspects, other perhaps than grip, which would affect the signal.
The point of a quality receptacle is simply an issue of improving all you can from the wall forwards. Not much of a stretch.
As I wrote in my blog, if you have any old upstream outlets consider inspecting/replacing them with at least Contractor/Residential outlets. For those of us not lucky enough to have dedicated outlets, there's a lot that could have been done wrong upstream, so it's a good idea to get into those as well.
Eaton Residential / Commercial outlets are cheap, ~ $4 each. My house is 17 years old and I found loose as well as back stabbed outlets which had to go, so I just went through them all in the listening room.
I switched the stock receptacle for that exact same Hubble in the giant pick above. The improvement was palpable enough that I felt no reason to pay any more. I would have to argue that - aside from better overall build design and materials used - the quality of the hold and contact with the plug goes a really long way. The Hubble has all of this in spades.
Although he’s not an audiophile, I found this video pretty sobering/enlightening and have to agree with his findings. Particularly comical to me was his Wikipedia search on the term audiophile (lol!). But he did go deep into product build comparisons which I very much appreciated:
recordbore I like the way you think! Try one and let's your ears decide! I went at it one at a time never even thought about if anyone had a return policy! Great way to experiment! And you are very right with a return policy you really only have a bit of your time into the trail and if you like it a bit of money. Unfortunately this hobby like all hobbies costs money. But some of the fun is the learning process that happens along the way. A friend on the other side of t country told me he bought special cyro treated breakers for his panel. I need to write him and ask what he got and where he got them. I might try one at a time!
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