A friend of mine convinced me to purchase two PS audio Power Ports. Received them and installed them and almost immediately I notice my HDTV picture had greater clarity and it cleaned up the video noise. The Picture is awesome and the graphics didn't have those little jagged edges. In the meantime, my music jumped out at me, with greater transparent detail, depth, and tighter bass. But I also noticed that the highs were a tad bit harsh especially on piano. Just finished running a dedicated line with two circuits with an isolated ground. I understand that this will make my system sound and look even better.I would like to hear suggestions for AC outlets that will be an improvement over the PS audio Power Port, i.e. getting rid of the harshness. I know this will be very subjective, but I would like to hear what you guys have to say. I have gotten some great advice in times past.
BTW my equipment: Meridian 568MM.2, Meridian 518, B&W 801's series 80 with bybees, B&w cc80's sides and rears, B&w HTM2 Center channel, Velodyne Sub 12", Denon 2910 DVD, Earthquake Cinenova 5 channel with dakiom stabilizers, B&k 2 channel amp, Mitsubishi Diamond series 73" 1080p HDTV, slim Device Squeezebox, Monster Power HTS 5000. Everything is looking good and sounding good but as you know good is the adversary of better. Waiting to hear
I highly recommend Oyaide outlets. They make a variety which all have different sound characteristics. I use them in my system and cannot be happier. Make sure to have them cryo'd as well. For even better results consider changing out the male and female plugs on your power cords to Oyaide products as well.
Give Alan a call at Audio Excellence. Great guy to deal with. www.audioexcellenceaz.com
I agree about both Furutech and Lee. In fact, recently replaced the Power Ports on a PS Audio P300 with the Furutechs (not a drop-in, but not too difficult) and really like the results. Dave
I have personally had great success with Albert Porter's cryo'ed Porter Ports. They are available at a reasonable price, and you will find regular ads for them here on AudiogoN.
I do not have any personal experience in comparing the Porter Ports with the PS Audio Power Ports you are currently using.
Cincy_bob's post reminded me that, as an experiment, a friend of mine installed a pricy Wattgate 381 and a Porter Port in the same double receptacle and neither of us could tell much if any difference.
Gentlemen, I have completed my dedicated line and isolated ground install and out of the gate it is awesome. So far your response and reading other threads, the porter ports are a less expensive upgrade over the ps audio power ports. The Oyaide seems to be the best upgrade, but it is 2 to 3 times the price of the ps audio power port. I am still listening. I have not made up my mind yet. the response from TBooe really gave me something to consider.
The outlets I like best and have settled on for my system are the Oyaide R1s. Admittedly they are expensive but IMO worth every penny. I have 2 in the wall and 2 in my power strip. As always try before you buy if possible.
You should maybe be careful with the Oyaide. I have a wattgate 381 and oyaide xxx right next to one other. I keep my power conditioner plugged into the wattgate. I have gone back to the oyaide a couple times but its really aggressive in the upper frequencies. The wattgate seems a little fuller bodied.
If your system is a bit aggressive in the upper frequencies be careful with the Oyaide. The oyaide was on my fridge for over 2 months and then spent several days after that on my system, so it was plenty burned in.
When we built a new house a couple of years ago, I installed the relatively inexpensive cryo'ed ACME silver plated receptacles, after reading that Bob Crump liked them. I can't tell you how they compare with others in absolute terms, but with dedicated lines, and with my equipment, they hold the plugs well, there is zero line noise, and everything sounds fine.
I've researched this very subject quite extensively lately and my choice was the Furutech FP-15A(Cu)-N1. Obviously this is a 15amp version, you I would hope went with 20A. Second choice would be the Oyaide, probably the gold GX or maybe XXX. Those ACME ones are based on Pass & Seymour. Also mentioned are Porter Ports, PS Audio Power Ports, Hubbell, and FIM. Consider the sound you are looking for and matching for as these outlets add a touch of coloration to the sound which is not necessarily a good thing.
I am in full agreement with Tboooe. Even at a higher price, the Oyaide outlets are definately the way to go. If you are having a problem with harshness, you may want to consider the red Oyaide outlet. It tends to have a slightly softer sound than the black or purple. I have had excellent results upgrading from a Hubbell 5362. I also recommend Lee at Cryoparts. He's been of great help with my questions and upgrades in the past.
In response to Musicman07 thread, I installed the 20a with 10 gauge wire. I also installed a 8ft ground rod. Should have installled a 10ft one. But what I plan on doing is installing another 8ft ground rod. My electrical guru says it will be better. So far the furutech and oyaide seems really interesting from what I am reading and hearing from you guys. Especially the oyaide because of the different sounds they offer. The others seem to be more economical, but have satisfied customers. But does more expensive mean better? In my experience, no! What are some of the places you guys have dealt with that will allow you to try before you buy? I want A dealer where I can return the product if I am not satisfied with it. Keep your suggestions coming.
If you dont want to send extra cash on new outlets, give them a couple weeks to burn in and see if the hash dissappears. I use PS Power Ports and I dont have any hash. All the other suggestions are great as well. Just give it a few weeks and then compare. HAVE FUN!
I respect everyone's opinion about the higher price of the Oyaide. Here is how I look at it. The Oyaide outlets are about $100. Compared to what I willingly spent on my other components, this is really nothing. After installing the outlets in my system, I was completely surprised at how much better everything sounded. The biggest improvement was had with Oyaides on my cdp and pre. I only heard slight differences on my amps which already have massive filters and capacitance. The two main things I noticed was much fuller and deeper bass as well as more detail. Nothing aside from new cdp and speakers had this much of an impact on my system so from my point of view, the few hundred dollars I spent was a very small price to pay considering what I got in return. In fact, I am now a total believer in the importance of power delivery. I upgrading to the Oyaide plugs as well as looking into AC filters or regen units. It should be noted that I do not currently have any AC filter or dedicated lines. Perhaps this is why I noticed such a dramatic improvement with the Oyaide outlets. Others who have already improved their AC delivery may only hear a slight improvement, if any. I wish I could do a dedicated line but I would have to do some major demolition in order to accomplish this. For now, I will have to happily live with my Oyaides.
I replaced a handful of Hart Arrow receptacles with Acme silver plated jobs I traded Bob Crump for. The Acmes outperformed the Hart Arrows, which in turn had outperformed Hubbles, at least in my system. The Acmes are very open and robust sounding, kinda like Bob's cables,
Things have gotten a lot more complicated in the last few years, what with contact enhancers and outlet covers and all, making it more difficult to evaluate things right out of the box.
I do agree, "good is the enemy of the best"... but I'll take a different tact.
I don't think it's the outlet adding to the problem. it maybe is helping to show it though.
I've four dedicated lines. Worried about outlets a goodly bit. Leaned on my experience as an electrician and decided this... use those outlets which will provide insertion of a device without arcing, and have the greatest surface area and grip. I went with simple hospital grade 20a duplex outlets.
given the level of gear you posted here, I'd think well about replacing the Monster regulator as they tend to induce more of a hardend upper end. Perhaps thinking about a passive line filter coming off the Monster, or in place of it would provide better results. I use only the aforementioned hosp grade 20a outlets and PS Audio line filters. Two Duets for the gear, and a UPC 200 for all the wall warts and PC gear. I could not be happier... and maybe ignorance is bliss. Don't know, but that path does work quite well.
If it were otherwise, and ONLY attention needs be given to the outlet itself, Why then are the proponents of these higher priced gizmos using apparatus after the outlet to further condition system conponents?
Spend money where it needs be spent, I say. tight gripping well made, durable outlets, and condition thereafter using the money you didn't spend on outlets.
As I mentioned previously, the issue maybe elsewhere... dedicated lines aren't the end all be all for supplying components good power. if the dedicated lines were installed using the same bus as that supplying household appliances, fans, hot water heaters, fridges, etc, or lighting with poorly designed dampers, you've not helped yourself a lot. Some good bit, but not terribly.
The thing about dedicated lines is this, ultimatedly they share whatever issues are pre-exsisting in the homes power feed. The same neutral/return, and the same supply bus. Dedicated is segregated or separated entirely, just lessend of the direct impact or influence of other problems. A separately installed iso transformer is needed to better remove any issues from that of the feed to those D lines.
Quick note... you said you were using a secondary isolated ground. Although a good idea usually, Depending upon the application/implementation of the iso ground, some difference of poetential can exist... causing a ground loop. An easy fix for that is an inductor. Simply looping some 10 or 12 AWG solid wire wound round and roung and then taped up and shoved into the wall, can eliminate that issue sufficiently to make it unoticeable.
Remenber unless the D lines use a t-former, somwhere along the line, somewhere in the home, both the neutral and the other ground come back into the ckt.... just the effect is lessend or takes longer to be realized.
When I installed my hosp outlets I did not add the ground/common line of the D ckts to every outlet. Just one. Violin! No hum, buzz, sibalence, top end harshness. Dead quiet, and I use tube preamp and mono blocks.
I found that elsewhere in my home, other things were either contributing to, or directly affecting that top end, or upper midrange on up... ground loops, primarily, but appliances too. I put chaeater plugs on the washing mach. diswasher, and fridge. Five minutes and 2 bucks later thijngs were better.
Also, Computers and their accesories leak DC back onto the power line. Hence the UPC 200 AND SOME EXTENSION CORDS. Even my cable system and/or sattelite added to the mix negatively. I used a coax transformer from Dayton on the cable feed directly attached to the converter box, which in turn is connected to my system.
before spending tons on a new set of whozits high end outlets, or making major moves in the system... Fire up the system and listen a bit, then turn off the rest of the breakers in the home not associated with the system, and listen. how's the sound? then one by one flip on a breaker, listen again.. this can be done pretty rapidly, with just a few minutes between each energizing... and just keep listening. Another body to just flip the breakers on whill facilitate things. I think you'll find the issue that way... if nothing changes as the result of that exercise, Try just unplugging the coax going to the cable/sat box, or ant to the TV.
Taking a few minutes to do the above is quite telling and my most sincere recommendation. Addressing a problem is best done if you know first hand where or what the problem is at the on set. therre's no guess work then.
THEN go add well built outlets and conditoning thereafter IF desired or even necessary, and I do feel they are.
Before I spent hundreds of dollars on something that I don't know about, I'd spend a few minutes determining what I do know.
Blindjim, I appreciate your detailed response to my questions. What a novel thought: Define the problem before trying to bring solutions to it. First of all I will perform the breaker test and the unplugging of the connections to the cable...These are easy and very economical.
I was already looking into another power conditioner or I may take your advice and add a passive line filter. The Bybee purifiers and the dakiom stabilizers are all tweaks I purchase prior to the Meridian 568MM.
My B&W 801's are about 20 years old and when I first got them they were a little muddy sounding on the bass. Adding the bybee purifiers, unplugging the automatic overload protection circuit and adding speaker stands tightened the bass. Found out from reading forums like this, that all they needed was clean, high current power. The Earthquake Cinenova 5ch 300wpc continuous made the bass even tighter and deeper. AS a matter of fact, a friend of mine has the B&W Nautilus 802's and he always declares that my mids and highs are cleaner than his. His opinion which I concur with.
I am going to trouble shoot the harshness by going back and removing the dakiom purifiers. May also remove the bybees to see if they are contributing to my problem, I doubt it, but will give it a try.
Blindjim besides the obvious what are the advantages of a 20 amp outlet compared to a 15amp? Thankyou so much!
I've used the Power Ports, various Furutechs, various Wattgates and all the Oyaides. The Oyaide R1s outperform all the others in my system, greater transparency and detail without any edge or stridency, there is simply no downside in my system. Initially I was skeptical that one ac receptacle could be that much better than others, however, the R1 is a big step up! Mine were also cyro treated by Alan at Audio Excellence, good guy.
I got several cryo'd Ac receptacles from Cryoparts here on Audiogon. They are Hubble and P&S. The top end through my maggies now have less grain. It was a small but noticable improvement for around $15. I now plug my powervar into it. Highly recommended. Next, I will try changing all the AC recepticles in the powervar.
Gentlemen, i am enjoying my music and my HDTV as my new dedicated lines and the ps audio power ports get more mileage.
I removed my dakiom stabilizers and unveiled some mids and highs. The harshness on the piano highs is gone. My bass in my 801"s are deeper and a tad bit smoother but still tight.
The video "forget about it". the picture on my HDTV is so rich, crisp, clear, I feel like I can reach out and snatch something out of the display.
The only reason I would consider going with other outlets such as the ones suggestion in this thread is simply a servere case of "upgraditus". Nothing more or nothing less. I am going to let this break in for about another month or so.
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