Audiophile demographics?

@audiokinesis 

great point, i very much agree

@gg987 

so glad you are posting!

does 987 signify first gen cayman???  hope so  :)

does 987 signify first gen cayman??? hope so :)

I have driven a cayman at the Porsche Sport Driving School in Birmingham. I know, I'm weird for a girl. But actually for about 15 years I drove 911 convertibles. Stick shift, of course, it's the only way. Driving that car with an automatic transmission is just wrong. You're missing all the fun!
Sorry to digress....

Cars are a digression. Porsche? Far from it. You are right though about women being rare. I ran Driver Skills a few years and we tried all kinds of things to encourage more women, but they just aren't interested. What got you hooked? Was it the experience of driving a Porsche? The 987 is one beautifully balanced remarkably responsive car. Or were you always into driving?

@millercarbon 

I've always loved cars. When I was sixteen I wanted my first car to be a racing green MGB. It was a silver Chevy Vega. But it had an engine and 4 wheels, so no complaints. In my twenties, my ex-husband taught me to drive a stick because they got better mileage. It was a Honda Civic, but I was hooked on driving a manual transmission. In the 911, I used to see if I could drive Mulholland from one end to the other in second and never touch the brake. You either feel it or you don't..

Excellent. I’m in Washington. Have only driven parts of Mulholland, but drove the roads around Mt Tamalpais where in my 79 SC many curves are so tight and steep you cannot go slow in 2nd. You either go very slow in 1st, or very fast in 2nd. There is no in-between. So I know just what you mean. And congratulations, because that is not something a lot of people can do. Male or female. (I know, from being stuck behind them! 😂😂)

prior to covid i did a weeklong socal drive with some pca/track pals

agree that mulholland is undriveable even in early mornings now, upper topanga still ok - rest of socal good drives are north of santa barbara - greater LA region is just too congested

norcal is better, but also getting harder and harder to enjoy the roads

Have you seen some of the sound rooms, they scream nerd bachelor. Speakers in the middle of the room. Monoblocks on the floor, cables everywhere.
Think about the speakers. Some are attractive and inconspicuous, many are room dominant with crazy colours ( Kanta!), shapes or bases.
Music is meant to be shared.
Hardly suits a solo listening chair laser located.
Function over form.
Does that partly explain the male dominated audiophile world. Maybe we males get sucked into the chase, aspiring to the next level.
Why are we never content?
Some thoughts.

And don't why there aren't more females in the hobby. 

But females generally have better hearing so it seems like something they could appreciate.

I am a female audiophile.

As to why there are so few ... I'm not sure myself, but the simple fact that the field is so heavily dominated by men is one reason, I think. Women are very aware of where they are not welcome, or where they MAY not be welcome, or where they may be denigrated, talked down to, patronized, or in other ways made to feel different or "other". Think of how people of color have to worry about being put down or subtly denigrated in situations where they are in the distinct minority. It's the same kind of dynamic at work.

My wife is not an audiophile but she enjoys most music except rap. She is not into the technical aspects of the hobby. I just got back into it in the last year after a 25 year hiatus. I recently bought a turntable and started purchasing some of the vinyl I trade those many years ago. Now what my wife is really into is sports and much more than I am. She grew up a Rangers baseball fan. Yes she is probably smarter than me. She is a prolific reader and spent 40 years in radiology. But I am a lucky guy to have her if I might say so....!

I always had music in the house growing up, an actually pretty awesome Magnavox cabinet TT and tuner.  My love of music and equipment just kept on growing.  My sister OTOH couldn't care less as an adult.

My daughter grew up with a really good stereo in our house and would make requests from a very early age.  She would actually sit and listen to complete albums at four years old.  Now at 32 yo she still loves music, but it's in the form of "Alexia play Steely Dan Aja". Go Figure. 

My wife loves music as well, but very rarely sits and listens.  Whatever is pouring out of the music room is good for her.  She will not attempt to turn the rig on or change music if it is on.  I've tried, but she has no desire to touch any of the gear.  

@gg987
Yeah, kinda. The cabinet is the giveaway. Before the divorce we had one as well. Now everything is what I would call "freeform".

Really liked this thought provoking question and the responses are equally thought provoking. Don't normally chime in but was motivated by this question.

I love music and all genres but I'm not sure I'm a true audiophile though. My wife on the other hand can pick up the most subtle deltas in sound performance. I keep joking with her that she should have been in quality assurance and she has the knack for it.

Agree about the emotional aspect being a difference between the sexes. Men seem more passionate about the sound of the perfect note and women just want to hear and assimilate the perfect note.

Women, in case it's been unnoticed, are physically different, and also have different priorities.

There's no reason why they shouldn't be different or should have the same priorities as men, is there?

These differences seem to be even more exacerbated with computer technology, science fiction and high performance cars.

My 16 year old daughter has very little interest in the current Hollywood zeitgeist of superheroes and science fiction. She and her friends have terms for those that do, and they are not pleasant.

@theo714 got it. If a group has been historically discouraged or denied participation in something, like STEM fields that relate directly to "gearhead" interests, it takes much more effort for a member of that group to pursue an interest in that thing, as well as a willingness to endure regular questions about why they have the interest and judgments about the validity of their interest.

Do not mean to offend anyone. But this is a dumb hobby.  Women are smarter they know it's the music which is the thing, not the gear.

Most college girls do not need a great stereo to hook up.  Many did not have the income from summer jobs to purchase one.  Who wants to go to a female's house to listen to girley music?

I think it is just that they are uncomfortable or disinterested (many of them) with the technology complexity and demo areas. Some of the high end rooms look like physics labs. Less women go into STEM. If you told an audiophile demographic survey, it would probably lean more towards science/engineering/technology/math types or mechanically inclined guys that like to fix things. BTW, it also holds true for video. My wife doesn't even know (or probably care) if a channel she is watching is HD or not. But she likes music, but is scared to touch anything on the stereo except the volume knob. Never has made it louder....

I bet more women are into cars than stereos. Now, they may not be into high performance cars always, but they seem to have pretty strong opinions and know what they like. BTW, many HATE high performance cars.

Much of this discussion is thought provoking and revealing about the authors. What some posts do provide is a look backwards to say, the 1950’s. Certain comments, especially those about wives afraid to mess with the gear controls, caused me to cringe. Were they shown how to use them? Were they uninterested or afraid to learn? Or were they warned not to go there?It shows how far we haven’t come. And sadly, many women still seem to be afraid to push boundaries and venture where no woman has gone before. 

They're too cheap.

My middle daughter (age 38) loves music and always has. We share “have you heard ....” all the time, since her teenage years.  And while at her home it’s mostly Apple Music through a Mac with speakers, whenever she gets back to my house, she always wants to spend time listening to music on my rig, letting me take over the “have you heard....”.   She is not interested in what equipment I have (although she asks what’s new), but in transporting herself into the music, eyes closed.
While her budget is a major limitation, her time (raising 2 kids) is also limits her.  But when visiting us, she is on vacation/holiday and has more spare time.  So, she may never be an audiophile due to budget and time limitations, she does appreciate the listening experience.  So when I die (hopefully many years from now) she gets the stereo.

It is in the DNA. Men are more inward which allows them to enjoy listening to music which typically is done without much conversation. Women are more outward and enjoy company and conversation which is not conducive to critically listening to a hifi system where you are either listening to enjoy, which is a non-talking event or to figure out which item needs to be upgraded next, which again requires quiet.

There are quite a few female audiophiles on this site.You don't notice them because they avoid the long argumentive threads.

@gg987  - My wife sees how careful I am cleaning and organizing my records with the jackets, folders (in many cases), sleeves, boxes (in some cases) and wouldn't want to go through the trouble, and probably never wanted to put the stereo on while I wasn't there. She does put on DVDs/blu-rays on her own when that is hooked up though. She won't play it through the stereo, just through the TV, because once again, she doesn't care.

Did you ever see the fantastic movie Diner? Check out when the subject of the record collection comes up. Classic.

And I wasn't born in the 50's. Never met a woman audiophile. Glad to know one and your set up is too organized and neat for even me.

Most women are not interested in audiophile gear because they are not interested, period.  They are not mistreated or excluded by men.  They are not beaten by their husbands for touching the stereo.

If women were interested in audio but didn't like the way men do audio, they could get together with other women and talk about audio or listen to music.  There is no one keeping them from enjoying better audio.  They just aren't interested, with exceptions, of course.

@linndrum888

 they know it's the music which is the thing, not the gear.

I've heard this said before and it never has made any sense to me. Of Course  the music is "the thing". But HOW do you get the music without the gear? You DON'T. So the gear is fundamental in hearing the music. So, by its very nature, the gear IS IMPORTANT! Why? Because you won't hear music without some type of gear. I've never heard music without something playing it. I've heard the cheap gear & the expensive gear. Guess which one sounds better. So NO, Its not a Dumb hobby. But it is a dumb statement, usually made by people who will not make the sacrifice of $$$ to buy the better equipment. Each of us has our own priorities. If it is not yours then that's fine. But you shouldn't come into this type forum with that type attitude and expect your unfounded statements to be accepted by someone who has made the sacrifices to obtain better sound. Its akin to going on a Porsche forum and telling them that your Escort is every bit as good as their overpriced Porsche.

@sokogear

I will definitely check out the movie Diner.

Thanks!

@danvignau 

"Who wants to go to a female's house to listen to girley music?"
I don't know what women you associate with, but I wouldn't recommend making that comment in mixed company. My wife is the "metalhead" in the family and was the one that turned me onto bands like Tool. We enjoyed everything from Puccini to Pink. 
Referring to "girly music" says more about you than them.

@gg987
You remind me of my ex-wife. And I mean that in only the most positive way. She has always appreciated good sound and good music and although she didn't care about the minutiae of my audiophilia, she wasn't in the least intimidated by the gear.
There is so much stereotyping in society and as much as we like to think we are progressing, there is a very long way to go.

Something I can finally jump in on!
Came home one day and my youngest daughter was operating my Sony Commander remote. Her mother was beside herself telling me she told that girl to leave it alone. I asked her rather casually so you got that down? She said yes, I watched you just enough. Then I come home one day and she has the stereo running. I walk in her mother says she did it.
The other daughter I took on two trips to the repair shop and showroom (nothing like the other one). She just had fun turning all the knobs and looking at gear and asking what does this sound like. 
One day I was fooling around with the system and made a wrong move and the older sister jumped me and told me exactly what the man said I could and couldn’t do. Daddy were you even listening? 
The mother just wanted to hear her music as loud as she wanted. I also owned a sports car that the mother loved to drive. One day I got to talking about holding on once you hit 80mph at a temperature of 160 degrees. To my surprise the mother pops off and talks about leaving guys in their tracks. She realizes she’s telling on herself and goes mum. At that point I realize she’s out there racing my baby and even I didn’t do that.
Shoot back to youngest daughter daddy,
I want that car, ok when I can no longer drive it’s yours.
Gets out she got dibs two other pouty faces.
The shop we were in was Sound Idea, Texas.
Maybe they like what we like but they never really do it the way we do. One thing I know the systems I do own will be staying in the family with the youngest girl teaching the boys and girls. Including the cars.
I don’t have pictures of my systems online because you guys are so above me all I do is read what you write. I have been into separates since high school and own gear from that day except for the headphone rack which now includes a HPA-550, V850, 339, 789, 007tll. Haven’t decided on second DAC yet but leaning SMSL400 or
Denafrips Pontus and run an rca over to main system also.
You folks rock!

@danvignau  -- "Who wants to go to a female's house to listen to girley music?"

Seriously? Girly music? What IS that anyway?

I guarantee you if you came to my "female" house you could listen to anything from classical to classic rock, some jazz, some blues, standards ... the gamut. 

As for people suggesting that the "music is the thing, not the gear" ... yes, but the gear is the way to get to the music, at least for us! For me, the quality of the sound makes a huge difference. For my male partner, it does not. He listens on my discards (very OLD discards!) and is completely happy. He doesn't worry about cables, line conditioners, or any of that stuff (let alone components). He's much more gadget-oriented than I am (he's an engineer) but has no particular interest in sound (and claims not to hear differences). 

Really, there are probably few differences between male and female audiophiles -- we're all in it because the sound makes a huge difference. Perhaps male audiophiles are, generally speaking, more gadget-loving than females. The "barriers to entry" are greater for women, though, as I mentioned. Women are wary of "boy's clubs" where they may not be welcome. (A great example of that is the toxic male gamer environment. Fortunately, the audiophile world is not nearly as toxic. But the wariness is still there.)

Men are more inward which allows them to enjoy listening to music which typically is done without much conversation. Women are more outward and enjoy company and conversation which is not conducive to critically listening to a hifi system where you are either listening to enjoy, which is a non-talking event or to figure out which item needs to be upgraded next, which again requires quiet.

excellent and accurate observation, i think

It might have something to do with women's uncanny ability to be up and about doing this or that and still catch most of what's going on wether on the TV or the HI FI.
 
While we both enjoy a good video and music, getting my wife to set in one place long enough to watch a whole move or set, head in a vice, to listen to music for more than about 5 minutes - is next to impossible. 

Jim

Men and women (exceptions from the norm excepted) have different hearing. 
Men lose more of their hearing with age than women do. (I am amazed at the golden ears some of us still claim to have when we are over 40...). 
Men lose higher frequencies first, but women lose lower frequencies first. If we want to share our hobby with our female partners and friends, we need to invest a bit less in subs, and a bit more in midrange quality. 
And maybe find some music which also appeals to the middle range frequencies of hearing. Any suggestions?

It is in the DNA. Men are more inward which allows them to enjoy listening to music which typically is done without much conversation. Women are more outward and enjoy company and conversation which is not conducive to critically listening to a hifi system where you are either listening to enjoy, which is a non-talking event or to figure out which item needs to be upgraded next, which again requires quiet.

@axo0oxa -- We can do both, I assure you -- enjoy company and conversation and also listen quietly.

Theo714:  Thank you!  I had hoped to find that there are female audiophiles.
Girly music?  Well0 I am prejudices but try to improve my outlook, deaspite being somewhat allergic to females.  I am happy to discover an actual lady audiophile.

Aha!  Some interesting responses, and prejudices, are afoot.  Has anyone thought that guys start being able to afford toys at an earlier age, possibly because we can earn more money through better paying summer jobs than girls, or at least could way back in our youth?\  Also, guys need an excuse to invite anyone over. Girls have things built in for this.

Neuro-scientists are still researching cognitive differences XY vs XX causes in the brain. So far, there is great overlap in any Gaussian bell curves of what they quantify. This makes a concept of gender too weak for me to ascribe this difference in interest in audio equipment to genetic differences between men and women. I think it is caused by environmental differences in what roles are assigned to males and females and these roles are purely arbitrary. Many women are engineers notwithstanding gender expectations. The same could happen to audio given the right social environmental conditions.

@danvignau 

"Also, guys need an excuse to invite anyone over. Girls have things built in for this."
What exactly are these built in "things" that women have?

Nice try Duke!   Regardless of gear and bigger and all the macho talk in these tag-ons there is one thing not one man has said about 'watching women or listening to music with women'...in my 70-something years I have never ever  even seen a woman actually 'listen' to music.  Never!  Listening is more than 'catching the lyrics'.  And I am very friendly with many women.  But you can watch them glaze over when you put some Captain Beefheart on the turntable.  I think that is why they tend to more opera with all the visual stimulation and a story of pain and heartbreak.  Women seemed to be more attracted to music videos too.  Ask a woman to close her eyes and have a conversation and see what happens.  Or of course, they jump up and need to dance.  But sit and listen the way my male friends or my adult sons listen; not. 
I think it is far less about expressing emotions and far more about getting your own bad self out of the way and to shut up long enough to 'listen' to music.  $6 ear buds or $60,000 speakers make no difference if you are not a listener and only a 'hear-er'.     

keithsax:  Did the transgenders you mention change to girlish people to guyish?  If so, was it to be accepted as audiophiles>  TeeHee from a very guyish dude.

drblarney1:  Yes, I agree, mostly.  We inherit things genetically, but mostly physical attributes.  We also inherit socially, from those we are around.  We rarely learn behaviors, and especially not identities,  on out own.  Even kids who are mistreated still learn to be like their tormentors.  

Applying stereotypes to audiophiles based on sex may be problematic. What is the percentage of males who are audiophiles?  Likely less than 1% of total male population. The vast majority of men don't get it any more than the women.  I suspect nurture has a lot more to do with it than nature. Its likely the vast majority of audiophiles became audiophiles because of exposure to other male's audio systems, guys hanging around with guys at impressionable age.

It follows far fewer women are audiophiles due to less exposure to women with high end systems. Chances are women only hear high end systems owned by men, figure its a man thing.

Culture is defined mostly by followers.

tony1954:  You ask, "What are the built in things" that attract guys.  I could be wrong.  It could all be socialization, but some guys do seem to be innately attracted to girl parts.  Of course, it is impossible to do double blind studies to prove whether this attraction is genetically inherited, or socially learned.  Not so with audio!  We guys really do like our mechanical and electronic toys, many just to show off to seem more attractive, but for me, I really have deeply liked my stereo, sports cars, sport bikes, and SeaDoo's; althought it never hurt that these things attracted friends over, many with special benefits that they never shared with other guys.  Girls are taught too much that clothes and makeup (Ugh!) attract guys.  They constantly see it in the media, in stores, and from mentor/idols.  Many have little time to just while away at hobbies.   

@rcronk

Thanks. I'm just a tad younger but was an early Zeppelin fan from 69 when their 1st album came out. Same with Sabbath. These along with Iron Butterfly, Grand Funk, and other hard rock groups were staples of my music diet. My experience is that many men don't like metal,. much less, women. I found one woman who did out of all the people I've known. So it is unbelievable that the majority of women now like metal. I'll call BS on that. Now I'm sure the times are changing. And I'm glad to meet the female audiophiles and metal head bangers. But that doesn't change the fact that they are the exception, not the rule.
This is where stereotypes come in. They exist to make conversation easier, especially on subjective issues. They are general rules but not hard and fast. Of course there are exceptions. And there are nuances within the exceptions. But this is for academia, with pages of minutia not BB conversations. I suspect it is also generational wherein the younger have somehow learned that stereotypes are wrong instead of being exceptions. I've noticed my son often points out the exceptions as if they are the rule. IMO, the problem with this lack of exception and nuance is that it often leads to confusion and then division and is counterproductive. A'gon has been going down this path for a few yrs now which is why I and many don't post here as much as I did the earlier 20 yrs of being here. I suspect it has a large part to do with the total division of our country now too.
BTW, you made an interesting comment about listening. My own wife listens with me. She generally lays with one ear on the pillow and hearing with the other. She is satisfied. She says she is listening but I notice her asleep a lot. 

@rcronk
"And I am very friendly with many women. But you can watch them glaze over when you put some Captain Beefheart on the turntable."

If you are playing Captain Beefheart for a woman, then I understand why you are merely "friendly". Perhaps you should try Marvin Gaye next time.

My wife is atypical music lover.   She graduated Stoney Brook as a biology major.  Major sports fan and an athlete.   When I met her, she had a few hundred rock and pop LPs in excellent condition (now  shared).  However, she only loves the opera live and will not sit and watch an opera on video.  She allows me to select the music (too many rock concerts when she was young and now she hates excess highs such as flutes and piccolos).   She is very helpful in assessing changes in our main audio system (very sensitive to sound).   She bemoans the fact that I've made her into an audiophile in terms of assessing the sound quality instead of just listening to the music (I have no problem listening to 78s and imperfect recordings as long as the performance is worthy).  So, I'm fortunate to have a wife I can share music experiences with but who isn't interested at all in equipment (she does appreciate the custom music listening room which is 98% isolated from the video family room on the other side-total isolated in the video room).  75% of her sports viewing time is not shared as I prefer to listen to music.

She bemoans the fact that I've made her into an audiophile in terms of assessing the sound quality instead of just listening to the music

Why can't she/you do both? This idea of just listening to the equipment is what many accuse audiophiles of doing. I think this is erroneous. I can and do listen to my computer system with great enjoyment. It certainly doesn't compete with the main system. But I can enjoy the music from both. Now, I DO have different expectations of both systems. I'd be terribly disappointed if my main system sounded no better than the computer system. But I listened to music on a far lesser system for many years and thoroughly enjoyed it. The disappointment would not be in the music but the fact that I spent so much for so little. 
BTW, My wife listens & enjoys music with me. She  also and has a pretty good ear. She is much more sensitive to high freq than I. But most women are.  Still, its not a priority to her.