I met a man on Audiogon who had a fairly high-end system and he was selling the whole thing off. I asked him why, which is the purpose of this posting, is that he was constantly trying to find the perfect sound from his audio system and came to the conclusion it does not exist. Additionally, he said most often all of his hours of listening were alone, taking many hours of quality time from his family. In addition, he said he was listening to his equipment vs. the music. He is now very happy listening to background music with his family from his AV system. I don't know, I just wanted to share this story as I myself fall into this trap (made me think).
Cdc - absolutely agree with all your points except being upset not finding Holly Grail. Pleasure is in the chase itself IMHO.
One point you made about quality of recordings is very valid. People often talk about great playback of some older recordings that I find absolutely horrible and only low resolution of the system or complete lack of hearing can explain this.
I enjoy playing with sounds -that's how I describe my time with hi-end audio. I would get real upset, real quick if I was going after the Holy Grail because:
1) It doesn't exist, IMHO 2) for the vast majority of the time, any stereo sounds fake compared to live. 3) The quality of the recording plays a HUGE role and the components much less so IMHO. Most recordings of music that I like stink. No, I'm not about to change what I listen to just because the recordings sound better. Ditto with vinyl. Music I like just doesn't exist on that medium. 4) Most differences between components are lateral changes IMHO, not significant upgrades. In the short term, different = better until you get sick of that sound. Besides, it's MUCH easier to make a component sound "different" than "better".
The philosophy that:
1) all components damage the sound and you put together a stereo for "damage control". As such, I have a CDP, volume knob, amp, and full range speaker with no x-overs. Can't get much simpler = less damage than that.
and
2) Being able to tell how components sound based on measurements vs. unreliable hearing is also a help.
I agree (with the original thread)...and I'm going through the same thing, selling my equipment for the same reason. Every huge, jaw dropping improvement evaporates after few weeks and I'm left agonizing what the next upgrade/change would be. Finally realized I can justify spending all this money if it makes me happy, but it hardly ever was, it was more of an addiction, similar to gambling.... Might come back to it in the future if money will be burning holes in my pockets (not too likely). The only thing I'm keeping is my headphone set up, because for some reason I'm nowhere near as critical with headphones as I am with regular stereo equipment (where I kind of wanted it all - full range sound, huge, deep soundstage, detailed but not analytical...). I bought a cheap $180 stereo system and I'm listening to cd's that have been collecting dust since I've discovered "hi end audio". Obviously I'll be a music fan forever and I'm excited about going to RMAF later this year, but for now I gave up on audio equipment.
One thing to remember in context is that moods associated with addictive behaviors tend to track in sinusoids from elation to boredom/regret. If the equipment hobby or your purchasing habits tend to drag you along this curve then consider professional help.
Any truly loved hobby is like an addiction in many ways. Everyone needs to find their own correct balance.
Perfection is in the ear of the listener. Audiophilia is an unsolvable dilemma. Realize there is no absolute sound. Its all real! Lots of it is really good. Do your homework. Make choices. Be happy!
Dear Sebrof, my man cave is still intact and to be honest I like it that way, I do make a point to ask others in my home if they would like to join me and they decline stating the streaming audio in my AV system is just fine and in the center of the home. I'm glad their happy.
My system is in my man cave for me to enjoy, and for anyone else who cares to listen. There's nothing wrong with me having a place to veg and get away from the world, and yes, even get away from my family once in a while. And since most of my listening time is when the family is in bed (late night and early morning), it's not practicle to have it in the open parts of the house.
All hobbies can get out of control, it's true. Just don't let it get out of control and enjoy, guilt free. You know you deserve it. Man Caves Rule!
Great point, Jeff. Sharing Hi-End sound with the family can be a enjoyable activity. I know here in my Man-Cave sometimes a family member comes down and takes pause, asking who the artist is and how good it sounds. I need to get my system out of the man-cave and in the family room for all to enjoy. And yes, it's all about the music - well put!
Interesting article by Robert Harley in this months Absolute Sound that parallels the first posters experiences. Not quite to the same extent but certainly along the same lines and focusing on the having ones system accessible to have everyone listen to it. Bringing music back into the living room like it used to be. Simply listening to the music.
It certainly doesn't need to be an A/V system though!
The idea that a high quality system can be out and enjoyed by everyone is a HUGE step in the right direction for Audio and High End Audio in particular. The thought that it is for music enjoyment for entertaining, family, laying around reading, etc makes the proposition of having a quality music system very appealing to many "normal" people and one that shuld be beaten like a drum from coast to coast in every lifestyle magazine, every blog about style, every new story about family living and what makes a home tick...etc, etc.
This is the direction of High Fidelity Audio. Not tweaks, not the "man cave", not the exclusionary nature that so many feel, not the crazy flavor of the month chase. A high quality music system for the home. Why? Because music matters. Simple as that.
"I sincerely wish you and I the best of luck." Same here. I have actually tried a new phono cable from Silver Breeze that I will be writing a review about in a few days. A great phono cable to say the least. Ciao, Audioquest4life
Hello there. I often get asked this. Too bad you have wrongly associated my moniker to equate to a relationship to Audioquest cables; in which case I do happen to like some. I can see where it could appear to seem that way, like a tattoo.
The main purpose of my moniker relates to the purpose of the many who deem this a hooby and a journey to achieve musical bliss, no matter how or to what means. Audioquest4life equates to a lifelong search for that quest of musical satisfaction, hence my moniker name equating to a lifeling search for musical enjoyment. Something I will never stop doing. So I am on an audioquest for life, just like the knights of the round table, looking for the chalace, something that might never be found.
Everytime you have this urge to buy new tweaks, accessories or equipment, just give that amount of money to your wife, children or donate to charity! :)
My wife makes her own money, so I spend on myself, so my money equates to my own satisfaction. Like most here, I by lots of music, all records, but once in a while I will do a minor upgrade or tweak, and over a longer period of time, a big upgrade, but rarely. Addiction, well to family first, music second, when the wife is out of the house I am in the music room listening to my recent thrift store or e-bay finds.
"Everytime you have this urge to buy new tweaks, accessories or equipment, just give that amount of money to your wife, children or donate to charity!"
Everytime you have this urge to buy new tweaks, accessories or equipment, just give that amount of money to your wife, children or donate to charity! :)
My appologies. My intent was to share the crazy trap I fell in and coined it an addiction, rather, is more of an obsession, spending the majority of my weekends in my "man cave" as some have coined just wasting huge amounts of time trying to squeeze the last drop of performance out of my system, for me, it's just not right. I need to just STOP listening to the equipment and start enjoying the music and simply be happy and greatful with the system I have. I'm chasing a ghost. Again, my appologies, I can see and understand my poor choice of words.
that's the beauty of the internet, audiofile. i can exercise my right to be stupid and you exercise your right to call people names and vent and express your unhappiness. enjoy your freedom!
Enjoy your music followed by your equipment in reasonable moderation, it is a great hobby. Keep it in perspective and perhaps even give yourself a time constraint. There are other more important priorities and if you don't know what they are, you have fallen into the Audiophile Addiction.
I'm no audiophile by any stretch of the imagination (and have the system to prove it!), but reading these posts two things occur to me. First (with a nod to Macdadtexas), involving the family can be a great thing; for example, it was my then three-year-old son who turned me on to Radiohead (I bought the cd, but he insisted that we listen to it again and again). Two, I think Jrtrent's post says something important about system synergy. A system that works--and works together--doesn't leave you feeling that you have "work" to do.
We need to strike a good balance between this hobby and other things such as family. Whatever you do that is excessive would not be good to you. Like yin/yan, one is more than the other would upset the balance.
I continue to upgrade the components and tweak the system to ensure high quality sound reproduction. I admit that I am more into the electronics than the software. Equipment is the priority in this hobby for me. To the contrary, my friend is more into softwares. He hasn't upgraded anything (except tweaking) for 20 years, but he has been buying so many LPs and CDs. A lot of the older LPs and CDs are just sitting in the shelves and collecting dust since he mostly listens to the new ones.
Regardless of your priority, make sure you enjoy this hobby and balance it properly with other things. Oh, make sure you don't go overboard and become bankrupt. Enjoy.
It is an indulgence. It can be great fun, but, like any indulgence (wine, sports), you need to monitor it's effect on your life. People often drop the hobby entirely when they simply need to focus on other things (e.g. raising children). Also the audiophile "itch" seems to come and go.
Speaking of good dealers, a dealer once wisely advised me that the hobby is full of men who after many turnovers, arrive at their retirement and sell everything off as a result of psychic burn-out or financial necessity. We saw some of this after the financial crisis of 2008-- and probably from many who were well short of their planned retirement age.
It has been helpful for me to redirect audio restlessness into a light study of electronics and piece-part substitutions and circuit mods. It's less complicated than one might think and the sonic & psychic rewards can be significant. This is a way to think about continuous improvement in a slow & deliberate way without becoming too obsessed. Moreover, as the roots of the high end are in DIY it's a small holding action against the luxury goods mentality that threatens to consume the entire hobby.
While meaningful internal modifications can be inexpensive and rewarding relative to endless component swaps, the grossest addictions may be the so-called affordable luxuries of over-priced external commercial tweaks and cable swaps. Though cheaper than electronics, over a lifetime of purchases these external tweaks can add up to some serious waste. On similar grounds I resist the temptation of a $5 cup of coffee.
That addiction I'm am finding is true. to combat it, I try to insure time with the family, and keep myself out of the man-cave and off of the computer, as much. Having the music is a great retreat and needed, but family should come first. Your kids will be with you for what in hindsight at least is a very short time. The good relationship of your spouse, can be sweeter than any new gear. Try to bring the family into the music as much as possible, but one yet needs some time and something for themselves as well. It will help to keep you sane and interesting, All things in moderation.
Rpg wrote: he was constantly trying to find the perfect sound from his audio system
Art Dudley has long been one of my favorite writers in the field, and in the introduction to his review of some modestly priced preamps (HiFi Heretic, number eight, 1987) he made a distinction between hifi as a means of bringing music into your home, and hifi as a "jockishly obsessive exercise where what you have in mind is to keep trading gear season after season, with even new components viewed from the start as mere stations along the way." Paraphrasing a bit to shorten it up, he contended that investing in a mid-priced system--and stopping there--is a perfectly satisfactory way of bringing music into your home. The goal of hifi should be to assemble a real music system you can keep and enjoy, and not be just another pastime you can dump cash into.
A good dealer can really help sort this out, and I'm grateful to the dealer who helped me 25 years agot to 1) define my priorities (pacing, rhythmic drive, tunefulness, and microdynamics were more important to me than soundstaging, frequency extension, macrodynamics, and hyper detail); 2) determine the system needed to meet my level of musical expectation (that is, what level of quality and price was it going to take to keep me happy); and 3) devise a plan of starter system and upgrades over time (as budget allowed) to get me where I wanted to be with minimal loss along the way.
It took three years, but I eventually got my preferred system (all Linn, LP12/Ittok/LK1/LK2/Saras), and it provided musical satisfaction virtually unchanged (job layoff led to selling the Ittok LVII to pay a bill, but I was later able to sell my original LP12 to help fund getting the LVIII/2 and a Cirkus LP12) for about 20 years.
Age and use took its toll, and two years ago I put together a new system, but less systematically and with the priority of "buying American" (in response to the President's stimulus spending plea) rather than focusing strictly on the sonic attributes most important to me. It's not a bad system, and it does some things better than my all-Linn gear did (width and depth of soundstage, image localization, richer tonality, detail retrieval), but rather than satisfy me for 20 years, I'm already getting the itch for change. I think it's time to head back to the dealers, re-focus on what's most important to me in reproducing music, and make a new plan for bringing music into my home.
Avguy wrote: I can still remember the days when Bose used to make me and my entire family so happy...
When I brought home a pair of Bose 301's a few months ago, mainly as something cheap to support the new plasma TV in my bedroom, and found that they made music through my main system more rather than less enjoyable, I realized I had gone awry in assembling my system.
I personally make an effort to attend as many live concert events as possible to help retain perspective and remember what the sound really is for my wife and I.
By getting out and hearing the musicians we love in a live venue, it then makes our system the bridge for enjoyment between these events.
Having friends as Audiophiles keep me interested. It would not be near as much fun by myself. In fact, I probably would never have known the differences in nice systems.Same holds true with the music.
Kijanki, you also make a good point. I consider my enjoyment of music a separate thing from my interest in hardware, audio magazines etc. Still, I have found that the latter can get in the way of the former.
i thinnk there is a strong relationship between this thread and the one titled "music vs components".
as for enjoying the music with regard to how it affects you, a table radio is sufficient.
i think you can hear the music in tour head without any equipment and still enjoy the feeling that you are creating an image in your brain of music that you enjoy for its own sake, regardless of how it may sound on a well assembled stereo system.
i believe in the dichotomy between music and sound. a good stereo system can recreate the timbre of an instrument, while a mediocre one may still enable one to enjoy the music.
i can recognize, what i consider "good" music listening to a stereo system that has an imbalanced frequency response, while acknowledging that sonically the stereo system may be deficient in certain respects and my enjoyment of the sound might be impacted.
My time in the man cave is my "meditation" time. Without it on a regular basis my stress level shoots way up! Properly de-stressed I can spend time with the family :-)
The hardware tweaking is fun but ultimately must be in the service of music. My goal has always been to put together a system that can trigger an emotional response when the music provides the basis for such a response... This can be achieved even on a very low budget with proper selection of gear and WORKING WITH YOU ROOM...
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