Audio Troy Capital Audio Fest the good, the bad and the ugly!

I wasn't at the show but based upon the Daedalus website and the gear Lou listed as showing with his speakers in 2 rooms it's hard to see how the cost would have been $200K in either

https://www.daedalusaudio.com/shows

Did he show with different equipment?

Agreed, that number is way off. Based on what Lou has listed in his most expensive room at CAF (Randolf) I'd estimate the total system cost was less that half that figure. 

I have to agree with Tidal. Unexpectedly great. One of the best there.

I will keep quiet on Daedalus. I am simply and apparently not a good match for them.

Is Devore you are talking about what was in Command AV room? The room that was billed as Luxman but had a few Luxman pieces and none to be heard?

I work for LTA (full disclosure), and based on the press sheet I saw, that Daedalus (Randolph room) number isn't wildly off. There was simply lots of gear (incl cables) in that system, so it adds up.

Is Devore you are talking about what was in Command AV room? The room that was billed as Luxman but had a few Luxman pieces and none to be heard?

I believe both the CL-1000 preamp and 300b amp were powering the Devores. It was hard to get a sense of how they sounded in that big cavern of a room through those speakers though.

Thanks for the report,
I’ll be waiting to read the rest.

JD

jsqt,

Thanks for clarification. It was my fault for forgetting that Luxman has these tube amplifiers. In my defense, they were far.

I hope it was just the room. I was quite underwhelmed in there. Probably personal preference?

I thought the Devore/Luxman room was underwhelming, I think it had to be the room.  The system was displayed in a ballroom.

VPI's new statement piece Vanquish was very interesting driven by Krell electronics, wired with Nordost.  I think the Kef Muon's did the system a slight disservice, was not a fan.  The room was challenging also - I wasn't impressed with the Blades room either which was disappointing since I've always wanted to hear them.

The VAC/Von Sweikert room was excellent, better sounding than last year.  But for 1.5mil, Yikes.  Just the furniture for the system was around 200K.  Great opportunity to listen.  Listening to Fleetwood Mac "The Chain" it was easy to imagine being in the studio with the band.

The CJ/Kharma room was another treat.  The Kharma's for me were the best speaker in the show - wish I could afford them.  The GAT and a new 36 watt power amp were driving them and they were simply outstanding.

Peter at Sound-Smith was putting out great analog tunes with his strain gauge system.  Tonally pure and organic.  He alternated between SG and Hyperion and both cartridges sounded excellent.

Callout to startup Verdant.  Beautiful stand mounted speakers and great sound!

Wanted to hear atmosphere/Classic Audio speakers but they were playing some sort of "space music" that was just terrible.

As usual lots of vinyl rigs.  Good to see Basis there.  My wife graced me with her presence (probably to keep an eye on me) and noticed every time a room was playing digital instead of vinyl.

Daedalus had 2 rooms and just did not do it for me.  Salk Sound was another speaker that sounded good.  Just did not get Magico, sounded sterile to me.

Overall I thought it was a good show.  CAF has morphed into a great event.

I found selection of demo material/music a little misleading, at least for me. Lots of it was acoustic guitars, soft voices that sounded like they were recorded in a very intimate venue just after midnight, jazz, and such. It all sounded impressive at first, that is for sure, but did it really represent what is likely to play on those systems?

There was a room with, pricewise, modest equipment that was playing Dire Straits and bigger Daedalus room that played at least one Bruce Springsteen song. I saw a couple of records that might have been, but they were not playing. Only one room I walked in was playing classical music. One out of 85 (I think I did visit all rooms, many more than once). In one room, I asked a very friendly and polite man who was demoing if he could play some classical next. He happily obliged and we were treated to classical music. Well, it was a female singer with very soft background instruments. It must have been called "classical" but it really was not much different, as far as demoing equipment goes, from any jazz or acoustic music played in most of the rooms. My bad, I did not ask specifically for something a little different.

Out of all those systems, I could compare voices and hear fingers sliding on the guitar neck (that is what a man told us to focus on hearing) but have no idea how Symphony of a Thousand would sound on some undoubtedly high-end system.

Looking at other visitors, I got an impression that most were 40+, easily 50+. Do all of them listen to what was demoed there? Who bought all of those Michael Jackson and Elton John, albums? Not even Rolling Stones. And, beyond puzzling to me, I did not run into any room that played the Beatles. That is music everyone in that age group knows quite well and exists on good quality sound carriers.

@glupson sigh, agree... but join us over in the music section Whats on your turntable tonight ? Thread... very little audiophile stuff being played 

@pops would love to hear more on your impressions of the strain gauge system Sonics... what arm and table ?  Thanks

I’m surprised no one has mentioned the Focus Aegis or Gt audio works rooms. Was blown away by both. Is it just that these aren’t new speakers so everyone has heard them already? I was let down by tekton moabs - small room and just played a cd on repeat on pretty low volume. Seemed like the opposite approach to take for such a massive speaker. Zu audio either had a room too big for its speaker , or had a weird selection of atmospheric music . It sounded very muffled to me. That would have been a great room for tekton . 

I agree on the selection of music. Most everything I heard was soft piano and double bass with occasional female jazz vocals.

I was interested in hearing the Avantgarde Zero TAs but the only thing playing in there was very soft acoustic jazz with no drums, etc. No way to tell what the active subwoofer was capable of. Occasionally there was some Donald Fagan/Nightfly playing. I did hear Keith Don’t Go once. And all the larger systems seemed to be playing orchestra music. As a guy who went there looking for speakers, the content playing was not very helpful.

I did like the AG Zeros, as well as the Spatial M3 Sapphire, which I thought was very good. I did not really get a good feel for the Luxman/Devore system due to the room. The Daedalus room was impressive. Not as impressed with the Acapella horns, which I expected to like. I did enjoy the Gryphon room (on Saturday - I heard that Friday was a little rough), as well as the Odyssey room.

Overall lots of Border Patrol and Linear Tube Audio, which were both impressive, particularly the Z10 integrated paired with the Spatial M3s. Also spent quite a bit of time in the McGary room - I believe it was paired with Salk speakers? Very nice sound. Another high point was the Joseph Audio Perspectives.

The star of the show for me was the Volti Rivals. Not as refined as the Vittoras in the other Volti room, but impressive enough for me to buy the demos - which look absolutely stunning (as did the Vittoras). The Rivals will be replacing the La Scala IIs in my system, and to me they were the natural progression/upgrade from the sound I was looking for. All the dynamics and scale of the LS IIs with a more refined mid and cohesive, fast, dynamic bass. Goodbye subwoofers!

I was also blow away on the gt audio works. The KEF muon's were amazing but the price was also 225k for just the speakers. The tekton was a room I was hoping for better but went in there on two occasions and just did not grab me. I did try one more time on Sunday and got the volume turned up and they did start to shine though.

Im literally kicking myself for not seeing the Spatial and Salk rooms, how did i miss it?  

For anyone who has heard the Spatial's, are they good all arounders, considered them to be pretty detailed also? Or are they more of a gimmick that does a huge sound but loses things in the mix as a tradeoff? 

How about the salks which i believe are the models that sell for around 6k with BE tweeters (if i saw the photos correctly)? Are those winners at that price point?

tomic601
@pops would love to hear more on your impressions of the strain gauge system Sonics... what arm and table ? Thanks

Peter was using 2 tables made by a friend of his I believe in Germany, the arms were his, a collaboration with Reed. The amp and speakers were his and the speaker cables were Transparent, not sure about the IC’s.

For speakers, he was using his 8K Monarchs I believe they are called and they sounded great, no need for a sub.

To his credit he spun records like a DJ on 2 tables alternating between the strain gauge and his Hyperion cartridge. Both were luscious!  The strain gauge left nothing in the grooves, total detail and resolution, purity of tone,  without being in your face.  The Hyperion was very similar, organic sounding with just a touch and I mean a touch of warmth compared to the SG.

GT Audioworks were my favorite speaker last year.  I dropped by early on Friday and one of the Pass Labs mono's was not working and he was using a different amp.  Compromised his sound a bit.  Sounds like he got it together but I never got back the next 2 days.

As I mentioned above, Salk sounded good and credit also goes to a McGary integrated amp - made the Salks sing.

Also forgot to mention Joseph Audio - Perspectives were great, airy and transparent.

@pops thanks for the callout above.  Really appreciate it.  
Since I was working the show, I didn’t get to many rooms but the guys next door to me at MC Audiotech had a really different speaker.  I got to hear a couple different instrumentals on it and they sounded great.  
In regards to music choice, we played everything from Mahler to Dream Theater. If the room was quiet we asked most consumers what they wanted to hear and learned a lot of great tracks.  Instrumentals and soft vocals were what was being requested.  When nothing was requested I am biased toward 70s to early 90s lighter rock (ELO, Cars, Murray Head, 10,000 Maniacs) because you can hear a lot of detail.  We did play an abnormally large amount of Cars in tribute to Rick Ocasek bit that was my choice.  

Sometimes shows like CAF are good because they remind me to be happy with what I currently have at home.

@pops  thanks so very much!!!!

Glad I could help out tomic601.

This was my very first audio fest experience and we had a great time. We started early on Saturday morning since we were staying in the hotel. I noticed that most of the 'early birds' were older folks but as the day went on, there were more younger people there. It was great to see so many young people visiting the larger conference rooms. We had to checkout at 1 and head back home so unfortunately we didn't get to go to all the rooms.
My favs were the following:

1. Sanders Sound Systems--Beautiful sounding electrostatic speakers and amps. I was quite impressed.
2. Raven Audio--I never heard of them until the show.
3. Fern & Roby/LTA/Modwright--I finally met Dan Wright, super nice. The Fern and Roby Raven speakers sound great. Loved their new audio racks and TT.
4. LTA Headphone room--Super friendly folks there. A lot of fun.
5. VAC room--Amazing! It was like being in a museum. The equipment looked too beautiful (and expensive) to touch! 
6. Zu Audio. I wish they had more speakers but the Dirty Weekends were excellent. I was impressed that they were playing something other than jazz.

All in all it was a fun show---so happy I got to go this year. I will try to go to some of the seminars next year. Hopefully I'll be able to get to Axpona next year.

My wife and I spent the majority of our time listening to the Sanders Sound System Model 10 and the Tekton Design Moab speakers. Both rooms featured lively sound that was affordable and emotionally binding. The LTA rooms were visited several times and always delivered a holographic image. I attended the show looking for a streamer and ended up purchasing the Lumin U1 Mini from Command Performance. For sure CAF 2019 was a strong success and looking forward to CAF 2020!

Totally correct Pops:

We  thought the Devore/Luxman room was underwhelming, way too big a room, and too low a sounstage for such an expensive rig.

VPI's new statement piece Vanquish was very interesting driven by Krell electronics, wired with Nordost.  I think the Kef Muon's did the system a slight disservice, was not a fan.

Agreed

 The room was challenging also - I wasn't impressed with the Blades room either  

Totally disagree the Blades sounded like a big electrostat, huge soundstge good bass excellent resolution.

The issue was a bit more liquidity in the midrange would have made this sound great. Needed some acoustical damping in this big live room, also The CAT gear the ampliifers have never been our flavor, their preamps are amazing. 

The VAC/Von Sweikert room was excellent, better sounding than last year.  But for 1.5mil, Yikes.  

God No this is an example of a way too big a room to fill, no room lock in the bass, the system overall is clean and big but not magical.

Contrast this with Tenacious sounds small room with the Eggleston monitors the speaker is rated to low 40's but the bass coupled with the room made you feel the bass more than the disjointed Vac room.


The CJ/Kharma room was another treat.  The Kharma's for me were the best speaker in the show - wish I could afford them.  The GAT and a new 36 watt power amp were driving them and they were simply outstanding.

Agree on the sound being excellent, expecially for the room size, there was a well positioned image, huge soundstage but still a bit small sounding and not enough bass for a $30k+ speaker.


Callout to startup Verdant.  Beautiful stand mounted speakers and great sound!

Wow don't know what you were hearing the $7k monitors were okay and had no bass, and the $4k ones were good but not outstanding.

This room was super dissapointing considering the $17k amp and the rest of the expensive gear. 

The Tektons were a total reversal of last year, no treble detail in that setup with the Di, and with the Moab the top end was sizzly and nasty and the room was way too small and the image disappered if you moved your head even a few inches.

Big sounding, just aweful.

Surprise:

Alta audio finally got their sound right. The companies last $10k speakers sounded decent and the $4.5k last years setup set of speakers was also very good.

This year the new Alec totally knocked a lot of guys socks off, a gigantic soundstge, coupled to a sweet midrange with excellent treble detail. 

Just amazing sounding for the price.

The MC speakers were indeed very good as well as the audio necs, the ESD horn speakers, the issue is price,size, and value for dollar with some of these.

The MC speakers that looked like a giant 1950's TV were really cool but their size and polarizing looks and of course price will make them a very niche player compared to more conventionally sized and looking reference speaker systems. As per comparing them at $35k to the Muraaudio as one guy said not really a fair comparision the Mura audio are $15k and are amazing for a $15k set of speakers.

The Saunders room sounded for the first time to us actually good, Saunders speakeres are very directional and usually has a one person image. 

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ

Sit in the Roger's correctly placed chair and Sanders ALWAYS sounds
better than any other speaker at these shows. Amazing product for
the $$$. #1 on my 

Gotta love the Love/Hate reviews always present with Tekton. 
Seat for every derrier as they say.

Was CAF well attended this year? Saw a video shot there and it looked dead. Could have been shot in off hours though not sure.

Dave & Troy

My apologies for being skeptical about the "$200K" price tag on the Daedalus system, just saw the breakdown cost from  Parttime Audiophile

I disagree with the comments on the Luxman/Devore room I thought it was excellent. I also really liked LTA/Spatial, Border Patrol/Volti, MC Audiotech, Acapella/Audio Note and Emia.

I liked the Tidal room but thought it was better last year, also I went into the Classic Audio room twice and both times was driven out by awful music.

Did not like the big ugly Tektons, the Genesis Line arrays with VPI and Merrill, but was pleasantly surprised by the Muons with VPI and Krell.

Thanks guys for all the insightful comments.  Very interesting and helpful for those of us who couldn’t attend.  I’d be particularly interested in hearing more about the JA Perspectives since I haven’t heard the new version yet. Thanks!

Soix the JA perspectives were outstanding.  He had them set up on the long wall of a very small room so it was definitely a nearfield listen.

Not sure about the electronics he used but his speakers sounded great as always, for me at least - I love his speakers but have never owned one.  They were imaging magicians, no sound was coming from the speakers, total transparency.  Sharp transients and deep tuneful bass - without an ounce of aggression.

I could easily live with them if they were a fit for a large room like mine.  According to Joseph himself they would work with the right placement.

Yes, saw the write up on PT Audiophile--looks like Lou and Mark brought everything but the kitchen sink, including monoblock Ref ZOTL 40s to drive the BOW subs--so $200K is probably close with cables etc. That said, I'm sure in a normal size room you could get 98% of the SQ for under $100K by eliminating the subs, going with less expensive power cords and speaker wire (like Lou's hybrid design with WyWires). 

Jond, guess we are hearing different things, the Muons were way too big for that room, the sound didn't gel for us.

Agree the Voltis were very good, Audiotech very good, the Acapella room was impressive but again way too large a room and the system was mind blowingly expensive.

Now a caveat, the Genesis were I think $180k and no that weren't that good but the sound after hours playing a harp recording vs the real harp player did show the system was quite capable.

We had the reverse with the Tial room more magical this year, good last.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ

One observation.

One of the rooms, in front of which a lady was giving cookies, had an equipment rack with no equipment on it. Unlike any and all, this one had color. It was red. Cut it some slack for maybe not being the ultimate audio high-end etc. It was politely awsome among all those industrial designs. Not to mention, it was just over $300.

I was more impressed by seeing it than I was by seeing VAC/Von Schweikert system.

I don’t know why they haven’t switched over to static displays at the big shows. Nobody can get great sound at the shows for reasons that I’ve elucidated many times, most of which are very obvious. Sure, sometimes they get excellent or at least listenable sound in a room, but isn’t it an awful waste of time, money and effort? You know, run them like they run Auto Shows.

I don’t know why they haven’t switched over to static displays at the big shows. 

Maybe because that's a ridiculous idea?  It's not like hi-fi actually suffers the same restrictions as an auto show.

I can't imagine traveling to an audio show (and many people travel a long distance) only to look at some silent display.   The first thing I'd want to know is "why can't I hear these?"

Audio shows are were many people encounter equipment that they'd never be able to hear anywhere else.  That includes the fun of hearing beyond-one's-mean exotica, or finally being able to check out a brand one may actually be interested in (many people don't have any high end stores anywhere near where they live).  Or one may have a surprise encounter with a brand they hadn't known of, or considered before.

It was due to hearing the Thiel CS6 at a show that led me to end up having those speakers in my home.

It was due to hearing MBL speakers at shows that ultimately led me to owning MBL speakers.

It was due to hearing the Hales Transcendence T8 speakers blowing away everything at a show that led me to purchasing the more affordable T5s.

It was due to a shockingly good sound from Joseph Audio Pearl speakers at a show that led me to investigate that brand, ultimately leading to my now owning JA Perspective speakers.

Well, what may sound shocking to you, Joy Boy, is probably going to sound pretty routine and bland to me. There are simply too many obstacles to overcome at shows. You got your seismic vibrations from the crowds (or are crowds a thing of the past?), you got your local AC grid that’s loaded to the max by all the exhibits, you got problems with showing new electronics, new speakers, new cables. Not to mention all the beer bottles and wine bottles littering the floor. After about an hour of listening to that I’d be deaf, too. Take a look at reviewers’ faces after a few hours of that. You’ll get the picture. 😩

There are auto shows where you can actually take a ride in the car. Very limited options, but they exist.

Beer and wine bottles on the floor may be the thing from the past. There were none at this year's Capital Audio Fest.

Sorry geoff, I shouldn't have "jumped" on you for your comment. I get your point of view.

As I stated:  Even though you may find the audio at audio shows of little use or enjoyment, many others find them quite worthwhile in numerous ways.

I hate to see geoffkait’s making a point and it being half-valid. At the same time, it was interesting to hear different systems at the show. Each one of them could have probably been even better under better circumstances, but as a day or two of entertainment, they were just fine.

Not to take this thread to different track, but is anyone going to New York Show this weekend?

Going to an audio show with no audio makes zero sense, period.   

Just saying.

Don’t get me wrong. I DO enjoy going to auto shows and listening to the in-dash HiFi. Especially if they have cassette players. One reason is they aren’t as pushy. Plus tape is a natural medium. It breathes.

I'm sure you do just like you sweat for hours making sure your wires are all oriented correctly.

Ouch!! Your wit is very sharp today moopman. Very ouch! You should be careful with that thing!

I have a car with cassette player. I use CD changer. Cassette player is too advanced, it fast forwards between the songs.

Back on track, Capital Audio Fest track that is, I felt bad for Zu Audio people. I am sure those speakers can sound good, but the way it was presented there was sad. It was not room, it was a ballroom with two relatively small speakers and a few chairs tucked in one small area.

@glupson, the lady handing out cookies was mrs Katz, refreshing to see a family affair at the show. She baked the cookies herself, while Mr Katz builds.

In general, the limitations of the rooms made it impossible in many cases to discern what the speakers are doing. 
The JA’s were playing at such a high volume in a small room, I was overloaded although I was surprised by the low end output.
I was hoping to hear Legacy Aeris but just as I got there they switched to (I think) the Focus.
forgot the brand but there was a room with speakers in plexiglass cabinets. It seemed a little odd that the tweeter faced forward while twin mids faced to the sides. I found that room way boomy.
the Martin Logan 5 speaker surround set up was rather unexpected, as were Benchmark class D amps.

this was my first trip to CAF. Having experienced that, there is no need to go to NY’s Park Lane event.  There is no comparison.  If I were running the NY audio show I would hold it in NJ. Drastically lower cost to hold event, much easier for exhibitors to bring their gear and less hassle for attendees.

@jacksky, The Benchmark amps in the ML room are not Class D, they combine Class A/B and Class H. Russ and Roz Katz have transformed their home into a showroom for many great sounding audio brands and he's a wonderful source for vinyl.

jacksky,

"Drastically lower cost to hold event, much easier for exhibitors to bring their gear and less hassle for attendees."

I wonder if New York show, being in Manhattan, is actually less hassle for attendees. New Yorkers often do not have a car, bridge and tunnels are to be avoided, etc. This way, potential attendees can take a subway from most anywhere in the city. Why put a show on the weekend after CAF is puzzling. Even those living at walking distance from the venue may not feel an itch to visit, once they have been to CAF a week prior to that. I guess, the aim may be New Yorkers who do not like traveling.