Audio Research preamps EXCESSIVE OPERATING COSTS

I keep 2 channel as 2 channel, meaning completely seperate from the surround sound home theater stuff. I use a sony str dn1080 for home theater duties. It, in my opinion, is the best out there for years running for the price. No idea why anyone would use their hifi in conjunction with home theater, especially if the kiddies are sometimes operating it to watch their movies etc. You can grab the aforementioned sony pretty cheap when on sale. I've seen it as low as $399 from time to time, regularly $598. 

Feels like the OP is trolling us. As said, tube components are not ideal for HT applications. Buy a SS amp and move on. ARC will not be offended. 

10 + hours of TV a day ?? WOW !!!  I can't even imagine that.  I don't even own one.  I have an ARC LS 27, and I get great tube life, and replacement costs are quite modest.

Invalid
What is the watt level for operating your preamp?
The manual for the arc Ref 6se says it draws. 130 watts. Not sure how accurate this is and whether a lot lower when in bypass mode.

a mc mc255 amp draws about 65 watts at moderate levels.


I'm not sure, I'm running a separate power supply, the 2 866a tubes in the power supply draw 5 amps at 2.5 volts for the heaters. The preamp only has 2 6sl7 tubes in it. I'm sure the arc reference 6se has more tubes in it, and they probably run them hot. I know some tube preamps can go through tubes faster than others.

I believe that you have to assess, what is most important to you. Watching TV/ movies HT experience or listening to music. 

1.If you find that watching TV / movies takes priority then you should invest in a mid - fi Solid State HT System, with Subs etc, as others have suggested.

2.If you find that listening to music takes priority, then isolate it out of the HT system completely. Get a sound bar for the TV and Invest in fantastic tube equipment, speakers, power delivery, and cables....

3.If you need to have both, then treat them as two separate systems. Work within a budget acceptable for you, and put the majority of your investment  towards your tube based equipment for exceptional music listening. The rest put towards Mid - Fi solid state receiver and speakers/subs for TV and HT. Can get best bang for buck on used market.

You also need to accept the fact that there is no all in one solution. Yeah they market it but... Look at it like this

You want a Porsche 911 Turbo S because you want to go 0-60 in 2.2 seconds, with 640hsp.  However because you have your family to consider you are looking at a Porsche Cayenne - 350hsp 0-60 in 6 seconds - And it has a turbo boost sport package button that gives you more power when you need it. But most importantly is still a Porsche.
But you find the cost to maintain the Cayenne does not justify the sacrifice in performance you have to make or live with. So get the the family a used Chevy Trailblazer - (HT Solid State) Solid- reliable and does the job. Then Invest in a Porsche Carrera 4S - (High - Fi Tube Equipment) and meet your expectations.

If you are concerned about the price of tubes and even the small amount of electricity to power them, you are in the wrong hobby.  Get yourself a boom box and then you can complain about the cost of the battery’s.  I would never want my family to just sit around all day and watch TV and movies.  Makes for very lazy people. 

Invalid
What is the watt level for operating your preamp?
The manual for the arc Ref 6se says it draws. 130 watts. Not sure how accurate this is and whether a lot lower when in bypass mode.

a mc mc255 amp draws about 65 watts at moderate levels.

I don't understand why you can't leave a tube preamp on all the time, I leave mine on all the time, it doesn't seem to need tube replacement very often. 

The first service on a Mclaren is $30,000. So is the second, etc.  As a service advisor told a woman in front of me, who was complaining about her bill when I was paying my bill, "Maybe you are not the type of person who should own a BMW."  I concur, and I sold my POS BMW.  Audio Research has been one of my favorite audio companies since their beginning; however, I am not the type of person who should own it, because I demand low maintanence costs.  I used to drive Alfa Romeos, but cannot justify their costs.  That is why transistors were invented, for people like us.  

I much prefer the sound of PrimaLuna compared to ARC, but that is just me.  I heard the Prima Luna HP mono blocks and they were quite special. I find ARC sound to be a little threadbare. 

By the way, look at Primaluna instead.  None of the problems you bring up, sound quality is very nearly as good, and the cost is less than half.  And, with their auto-bias functionality, you can buy tubes anywhere, they don't have to be matched, and all will work perfectly!  

I'm not affiliated with either company or the audio industry.  But, I read a lot, and I'm very happy with my Primaluna HP Integrated... for which I've never had a tube failure.  Owned 8 years.

You can use tubes you buy elsewhere.  But, be aware, that will void the warranty. If a tube burns down, ARC will often have other problems, like resistors that burn too.  You have to send it back for service, and you will pay unless you got the tubes from them.  In some cases even if you did buy tubes from them.

ARC has done their job and produced an extremely high quality stereo component for "stereo use". Being  as nice as they are they also gave you an option  for the home theatre bypass option to use I would guess once in while for the odd movie or sporting event. The problem here is that you want to use it all the time like a receiver.. 
It wasn't built for that..
You gotta make a choice here --  suk it up and keep buying tubes or get another room for the system or like another poster here mentioned get a nice sound bar...

Problem here is that tube preamps which keep the tubes off while watching tv are not very good.  Bartlett looked promising, about $9k, but it didn’t seem to be of same level as the arc 6se preamp.

I have since found that replacing tubes of 6se are about $300 (1 to 2 yrs) and exp for electricity is about $60-80 annually assuming a watt level of 130 while on.  It is truly a pain that a very sophisticated industry has not done a very good job integrating ht with stereo preamps.  McIntosh efforts are very troubling, their system when wired as they want it will cause your avr to turn off so you can’t watch a muted active tv screen like a sporting event or have it displaying stuff during social events.

I want exceptional sound when I listen to stereo, and the hifi industry does not make it easy to get there!!  Just horrifying.

We could do an exchange if you like.. The tubes on my LS26 are not costly to replace :) It sounds wonder full as well.

Well then a lesser model like the LS26, or 27 which only uses 2 tubes instead of 6 could be an option.
I know what your doing I've done it before with my LS26 for movie nights but I would never run the thing all day long for the wife and kids to watch TV with.. However if it is a must then YOU must change preamps plain and simple. There are some out that don't even need to be turned on which will just pass through a signal..
Do some research :)

Idea is to use arc stereo preamp in a home theatre system where main speakers can be used in a stereo environment absent interference from an avr.

So if I'm reading this correctly the OP who doesnt listen to music purchased an ARC Ref6-SE to watch tv with or at least leave on all day long so his family can use it while watching tv?

The OP clearly has more money than brains...
What a waste of of high end component...

Thats cheap enjoy it.

Why would anyone waste tube life by leaving units on when not needed?

I run tube amplification in my primary system, which is a combined AV system. It is used only for listening as when I am doing video I just move the speaker leads over to a solid state pre and power set up.

That is ARC. I had an SP 10 and then SP11. Had to retube every 8 months. Horrible life on those units. Now I have a Veloce' which smokes the ARC and tubes last for years. My Audio Note DAC5 is on 24-7 and I get at lest a year form the tubes and it is under $250 to retube.

Sell the ARC and get a ss preamp.  Who uses tube preamp for general TV viewing anyway? 

My suggestion is to purchase a high quality sound bar/sub combination driven off the TV for general viewing. Save the ARC for movies and audio. No need to listen to food network channel through a high def sound system. 

McIntosh makes equipment for home theater, ARC does not.

  DUH! I’ll give you $100 for your ARC preamp and that’ll give you a start toward something that you should have bought in the first place! Somebody needs to come up with a quick online audiophile competency test. Have you checked the "ohmage" on your speakers? Maybe they use too much energy too. Sorry. Maybe we need new ’thinking caps’ or ’tin foil hats’ or those crazy laser hats that are supposed to grow hair. Anything would be an improvement.

Isn't this sort of like complaining about how much gas your Ferrari uses or would be be more of a Camaro analogy?

Decooney, yes tubes were used in TVs for years... not because they worked well, but because that's all we had.
I remember pulling the heavy TV  out from the wall, removing the 10-20 screws and power cord interlock so I  could access the insides of the TV,  making a map of where each type of the 10-15 tubes were located or in some cases, hidden...pulling them all out, driving to the electronics store with a showbox full of tubes and testing every one of them...getting positive results on many, negative results on some and unknown results on others. You spend money buying replacements for the known bad ones and maybe some of the questionable ones, take them all home and carefully re-install the tubes, put the cover on, cross your fingers and turn it on. If it worked, great! If not....back to the store to re-test the questionable ones, repeat until it works.
This was a once in 6-18 months routine.
No...when transistors became available, NOBODY kept building TV s with tubes. SS was the way to go.
Yes, I have a tube phono stage and it's great. And, it's only on for a half hour to an hour before I listen to an LP, and gets turned off when optical or other digital sources are in use.

Please try not to cry to much.

So, with original equipment tubes, the ARC Ref 6 costs about 300.00 max to retube.

https://www.thetubestore.com/audio-research-reference-6-original-equipment-package

If your are considering going to that level, I would think a sound bar would be your best choice for a dual use room situation... but honestly, even if you didn’t, the cost per hours really would be negligible in the long run.

McIntosh users like all the extra features, as do I.  If you want minimalist, look elsewhere.  I had minimalist for years and now wonder, why. 

The McIntosh c1100 is nice but it bothers me that I am getting a phonostage and headphone amp that I will not be using. And it takes up a lot of space. Mc needs to do a higher tube preamp without this extra stuff. It would do really well.

Get the McIntosh.  The tubes last forever.   Some guys are still using the same tubes in their unit, 20 years later.  McIntosh does not push their tubes and tube life is greatly extended.  I have done a lot of experimenting with tubes in my C2500 preamp and after spending almost $400.00 on more expensive tubes, I went back to the stock McIntosh tubes 12ax7 which are rebranded JJ’s. 6 tubes at a cost of 90.00 total. Not too shabby. 

My experience with Audio Research tube gear has been excellent.  The tube replacement cost is not out of line with other top tube equipment manufacturers.  Of course it is more expensive than having a solid state piece.  Seems like a lot of belly aching over nothing here.

Rare tubes for watching tv and movies, and having a penchant for not enjoying listening to music. Interesting , but whatever

If ARC is such a rip-off as you seem to be saying, why would you even consider it?

I think you mean 6h30 by sovtek which sell for $34. I was looking at a rare brand which was so much higher and arc wasn’t helpful to guide me.
So now I ponder an arc 6se vs a McIntosh 1100, which has a phonostage. A very tough choice.

So in your other preamp threads (digital forum) you mentioned the ARC Ref 6SE

7 - 6H30p tubes - $30 per
1 6550WE - $35
$245 to retube , if they all went out at once

If there’s a secondary receiver with one being a stereo preamp, how do you share speakers between them?  

Where are you buying your tubes?  Wow... a typical ARC retube is much less. I’ve done a few. And agree with the others, for that kind of hours used, a secondary receiver would be best, or make it really easy and do a sound bar for tv.

+1 emb

Didn't you learn your lesson with your first Audio Research bash thread emergingsoul? This one is really an embarrassment.

@tubebuffer
..."I don’t see how this arc problem this family to much on the tv problem." ...

Oh my gosh, LMFAO. Tubes use to be in TVs and lasted a good while.

Clearly the OP has no love for ARC.  My suggestion is buy a solid-state preamp and be done with it--there have been some good suggestions made above.  If you really want the ARC, get a cheap solid state integrated amp/HT processor for your home theater and just use the ARC for music.  But stop bashing ARC for the fact that it's expensive to own and operate--I think most of us know that.

truism in life --

some good things in life are free, but lots of other really really good stuff costs money to have and enjoy

money is over rated, it is the experiences that matter

when you are done and have no more time, all the money in the world will not buy you one more second

Weird thread. Is this that new "what's the deal with ARC" complaint forum?

Buy tube gear to listen to music. SS does just fine for explosions and special effects along with marathon viewing as mentioned.

Arc Ref 6se operating costs are very high if you use it with a ht system that happens to be on 12 hours a day.  Even when stereo used 2 hrs and rest is ht time.

tube life is 4000 hours per arc and 2000 for power related tube.

unfortunate why tube preamps used in a ht system have to have tubes on when being used in ht mode.  Startup delay to use tv is also a problem.  

This can’t be real tred.  You open sliding door and boot all those people out the doors.  Tell them to ride bicycle, play basketball, learn to sword fight, go mountain climbing, get BB gun and shoot target and maybe learn to hunt.  I don’t see how this arc problem this family to much on the tv problem.