erik_squires10,535 posts02-09-2021 10:02pmBetter, not sure. I will say hearing Luxman and D’Agostino side by side I was really happy to afford the Luxman. :)May I ask which Luxman and D’Agostino model which you heard side-by-side? Personally I own the Luxman L-590AXII and it sounds splendid in my system. I didn’t have the luxury to compare the Luxman to more expensive offerings such as D’Agostino though. The D’Agostino Progression integrated looks promising but it costs twice the price of the Luxman integrated with some spare change..
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I haven't heard DAG's, but I did have a Krell FPB300 for several years and it was a fine amp in every way. But DAG is quite fancy looking and certain reviewers think they're wonderful. I later upgraded to a pair of Levinson 33H's and they were some of the finest sounding I've ever heard. I don't like paying for cosmetics outside of a preamp or a turntable. The Pass XA series has never failed to impress anyone who has heard them and are priced far more realistically. I have a friend with Aleph amps that even now are in high demand but aren't pretty to "look at". |
I graduated from Krell to Boulder and never looked back. So much more musical, Boulder amps do a better job of drawing you into the music, and the timbre is in a different league. When i put a 2060 into my system it was as if i had treated my whole room, softening hard surfaces and smoothing out corners. Then i heard 2160 and it was game over, despite the fact it would take me three yeats to save the funds. I'm now 14 months into a 3 year plan. |
Inna, I enjoy listening to music and also take great joy in auditioning gear. Consequently, I collect (hoard) much gear. As has been stated before, synergy is key (everything). For example, I have a pair of fully rebuilt ML 33H, these amps pair up well with my Talon Phoenix speakers (ceramic drivers), however, my Pass XS300 and Krell KAS sound better with my Rockport Cygnus than when using the ML 33H. Additionally, I have several Pass Aleph amps which sound sublime when paired up with my Altec Malibu speakers. I have several JBL (4343, 4350, 4430, the original Everest) which pair up well with tube amps and SS pre-amps. I prefer my Boulder 2050 to my 2060. I had the Vitus SM 101 Mk1, but preferred my other amps and thus sold the Vitus. My Krell KSA 200 pairs up very well with my Duntech Princess speakers. In regards to the D'Agostino S-250, it's a great amp, reminds me of the older Pass amps. Pick your poison... respectfully, Jose |
Inna, a few more to consider; The Vitus SIA-25 is spectacular, assuming your speakers arent power hungry. I used the SIA-25 with a pair of MBL 111-F for a while. Coda products are HIGHLY underrated. I prefer full class A Coda amps; these are giant killers, trust me. Additionally, Coda pre-amps are tremendous. I own a Coda S-100 with matching pre; wont get rid this combination for anything. Respectfully, Jose |
Inna, I dont have the MBL 111F or the Vitus SIA-25 anymore. Im blessed to have the space to store my items (climate controlled and out of the way). I do have a modest and treated dedicated listening room. The guys from Coda are ex Threshold employees. Again, I can vouch and attest to the high power full class A Coda amps. Hans, from Vitus is a class act individual. Respectfully, Jose |
@bpoletti I just picked up a pair of M1s and am really enjoying them. Nice to see another owner. I couldn't find much information about them when I bought them and threw the dice based on Keith's reputation. I've heard the Momentum M300 monoblocks and they were something special and the casework was a thing of beauty. I love the M1s but I would definitely trade them for a pair of the M300s and have zero regrets. |
Linn Klimax Solos. Are they "better" than D'Ags (or other high-end SS amps)? Pretty sure there's no objective answer to that question (as others have already said). I tried them coming off a Mac that weighed more than a crate engine (the MC303), and the results were night and day (to my ears). Never looked back.... |
That’s because it was the MC303! It’s a great theater amplifier but unfortunately, it doesn’t cut the mustard compare to the MC352, MC462, MC602, MC2301 tube Monoblock, MC2000 Tube Stereo, MC2102 tube, MC272 tube, MC501 Monoblock, MC601 Monoblock, MC611 Monoblock, MC1.2KW - MC1.25KW Monoblock, or the mighty MC2KW Monoblock amplifiers. Sorry, these are just in a different league even within there own brand. |
There have to be at least 20 companies that make a statement amp that is every bit as good as D’Agostino. At that level, to say that one is better than another is of limited meaning. More important would be personal preference, and synergy with source material and other components. Also worth noting that at the statement level, some types of implementation are far more expensive than others. You could make the argument for example that statement level Pass is a much better value than statement level Dartzeel, if sonics are the only consideration. |
@inna sorry for the delay in responding to your question about S250 versus M900u. I still own both amplifiers, and I have been so engaged with the D’Agostino in the system that I haven’t put the Luxman back in yet. I will, and it will be interesting to hear what I hear then. My gut sense right now is that the D’Agostino will prevail for my speakers and system. But it is not certain, as the Luxman is a great amp in its own right. |
I will need to try the switch back to Luxman soon and see what I think. I have implemented other upgrades in my system that have me mesmerized with the sound quality, and I might be ascribing too much of that to the D'Ag. I do like to listen to a new piece for weeks usually before feeling I have their measure (cannot understand the camp that is constantly switching stuff fast and proclaiming their findings - - I know I can't do that confidently). Switching back to the Luxman in the new context will be interesting, because I really am smitten with the S250 in my system now. |
jbrrp1 makes a good point: it is hard to attribute all attributes to a single component. Cabling and speakers and pre-amp, etc .... can have profound impacts. As another post stated, a true test is switching out a single component—in this case, the stereo amp—and nothing else. Same cabling, source point, conditioning. Essentially, the exact same system. What seems as critical in what amp you select is the holistic view of the system. We are working with a dealer who specializes in D’Agostino paired with Wilson Audio speakers. We love the sound. Are there better systems? I am sure. But you can go insane reading all of the pros and negatives about ANY piece or brand. I do not have to time nor motivation to fly around the nation listening to Boulder or Gryphon or Pass Labs. As fabulous as those are said to be, and as much as I would love to hear them all, there gets to be a point of diminishing returns because you are not hearing all of the systems with the same cabling, source points, etc .... let alone AT THE SAME TIME You are hearing that SYSTEM. THE WHOLE THING. And then a day or week goes by until you can hear another set up. Not really the best way to determine minute differences. My point: find a reputable dealer you can trust with ears you trust who understands your ears and tastes. They most likely can put together all of the components that work best TOGETHER. Usually a great dealer has a SYSTEM that works TOGETHER, meaning pre-amp/amp/speakers/ cabling ... THIS is BEST. For THAT amp. |
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The Gryphon top range "probably" could The 180w Gryphon Antillion 3 x Class-A modes to chose from 10w for Summer and 100w for Winter, and can drive anything thrown at it. https://gryphon-audio.dk/shop/power-amplifiers/antileon-evo-stereo/ And if you have very efficient speakers, the 50w Mephisto which is also 50w Class-A, can drive evil loads also https://gryphon-audio.dk/shop/power-amplifiers/mephisto/ Cheers George |
@inna So, I did get around to putting the Luxman M900u back into my system and listened to it for over a week. In my system, the D'Agostino S250 was a very clear winner, as I feel I am hearing all of the detail that the Luxman was digging out of the music, but in a more musically coherent presentation. I sold the Luxman last week and am sticking with the S250. Again, I do think that this could well be a case of this particular "horse" riding well on my particular "course" (TAD CR-1's). I have since added the HD preamp, and it really matches up to the glowing review in Stereophile. The D'Ag stuff is "all that" to me. |
jbrrp1, I see. Great brand indeed. Very special sound. No one really talks about either Audionet or FM Acoustics. I would be interested to hear the impressions, especially regarding FM Acoustics. In any case, there are probably 10 or so brands at the very top level to choose from, including a few Swiss, Danish Gryphon and Vitus, German Audionet perhaps, American D'Agostino and Boulder. Good for us. |
I have to chime in here, years ago I upgraded from Krell KAV 250a amp The amp was purchased to drive the B&W 80ds (2010 version). Later I replaced the Krell KRC-3 preamp with a Balanced Audio Technology VK 32 SE. |
D'Agostino amps are some of the best equipment out there. Regardless of whether they are solid state or tube. To say that tube amps are best is not correct. To say that solid state amps are best is not correct either. A great tube amp is just that, same for a great solid state amp. Basically a great amp for your speakers regardless of solid state or tube is the issue. Just like the classic judgement in Paris in the 70s for wine. hide the equipment and play recordings. See if people really can tell if it is tube or solid state. and also judge if one is better than the other. if it sounds great. that's it. enjoy |
I’ll never buy anything from D'agostino. Below is a copy and paste from his facebook site, 06/04/2021. I don’t care about his politics, I do care about the way he would potentially treat a significant subset of his customers that might have a different opinion. Prime example of narcissistic personality disorder. "I am closing my face book account Patriots unite close your account No Trump no face book Goodbye to all" |
Never signed up for Facebook. Waste of time. I dont know what Trump has to do with Facebook. Some on it like him and some hate him. I wouldn’t let those statements by D’Agostino influence me on whether or not to buy his gear. If I LISTENED TO IT and liked it and thought it represented good value versus other options, I’d buy it. i would bet most boutique audio equipment designers/manufacturers are either independent or liberal to some degree. Disqualifying them for that is a mistake. |
I am sure that is real bothersome to him. Yet you will support companies that support a government that oppresses, murders and tortures an entire subset of their culture and population.
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@steveashe + 1
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I have heard FM acoustics electronics. I find their pre’s outstanding; the mid-level pre offered better dynamics and similar transparency and coherence as a matched transformer-based attenuator (silver). The amplifiers are stellar in reproducing the musicians’ energy and sense of rhythm, presence, and the sense of space (if captured in the recording). BTW, back to your original question: d’Agostino’s big Momentums are great amps - the other models -- outstanding thought they may be -- are not in the same league IMO. |
Once you hit the upper echelons of performance, "better sound" becomes even more subjective than otherwise. IT comes down even more to personal preference to determine what is best. Build quality is another issue and is probably less subjective, but alone build quality does not necessarily mean "better sound". The best products tend to be built by the smartest and most capable designers who will choose the parts needed to meet their goals. Depending on the target market, they may decide to always use the best most expensive components or those that may cost less but meet the requirements of the design just as well as the more expensive parts. Quality control and assurance is always key no matter what. That is really what separates good products from the pack, especially when one is paying a premium for a supposedly "superior" product. |
