These are very uncertain times for most people. Multiple industry layoffs, stock market is volatile, impact of tariffs uncertain. For most people, luxury items aren’t a high priority right now. I do understand many of you are comfortable retirees and can buy sell these for pleasure but significant part of the demographic aren’t going to do that in current economic conditions.
Anybody having trouble getting near-your-asking-price for used gear ? (Plz. no hype)
I buy and sell gear "on a whim" and have done so for 40 years. Mostly high-end tube stuff that I get an itch to move from my rig to make room for other high-end stuff that I have been dreaming of. It's fun and gives me a fresh faces to fall in and out of love with.
Lately I am having a really hard time getting any serious offers above 1/4 to 1/3 of retail- actually zero offers over that. And winter is the time of year gear sells. Once the sun comes out things get really quiet. Not terribly long ago I could ask 50% of retail and get serious offers pretty close to the ask.
I am especially having trouble selling ARC gear. It's prices are steadily collapsing. On HiFi Shark that stuff sits for close to a year (or more) before it moves. For example SP 15s are under 2K now. They were selling (not asking) at 3K a year ago. It took me almost a year to sell a new-in--box I/50 for $3000 (!) Ref 75s are moving under $3000 and TMR will only offer 2K for one of them. The older stuff is selling in the hundreds not the thousands. Top-Of the-line stuff like Reference 10 preamps are moving under 12K (asking is around 17K)
I recently sold a Bryston BR-20 brand new in the box and it took me 7 months to get 48% of MSRP. This is NEW stuff- not somebody's junk.
My guy at Magnepan told me their stuff is really moving slowly as well. He blamed it on the political environment. ARC is pretending all is well but I have a little birdie inside there that tells me their stuff is stagnant as and dealers are actually cancelling orders.
Now, assuming you are being honest and not "fluffing the market" with bullbleep because you have something for sale and hoping for the greater fool, are you seeing/experiencing the same thing I am experiencing?
NO RETAILERS PLESASE- you guys tend to "exaggerate" to put it kindly- plus most of us here at AG know who you are and your 1000s of posts are a big clue.
Signed/ Depressed about my favorite side gig.
116 responses Add your response
Break out Ocaams Razor, stare in the mirror and shave that beard of rationalization off. Aside from politics having little place here IMO the Dow and such always goes up. Always a winning side up top. To quote Warren Buffet "Price is what you pay, value is what you get." There is simply a lack people interested in your gear, no matter how dear to you. The SF Bay CL is loaded with unreal bargains and HI FI Shark should have an alcohol interlock ;) Please also consider relative budgets and goals. I recently picked up a pair of VS VR4 Gen 2 (DAMN GOOD) for 1000 delivered. What made my existing amp sound better: Those speakers on NAW (normal a$$ wire lol about$) or a pair of 1000 cables laying on the floor? As always does your system make you smile? Happy Listening |
During some exploratory years, I sold/rotated more 'higher end' items to dudes outside of core audiophilia...business guys, padded musicians, etc, who know nothing about the nerdy side of gear...depends on how connected you are, i suppose (how much risk u could take..or if you are a fatter cat who just don't feel like wasting cash). If some gear blew the pants off the unsuspecting layman, he'll drop the cash if he can afford it. For example, there are so many bored rich dudes who'll spend hundreds of thousands on a home reno for no good reason...because he got bored. Tell him his stupid house didn't need a reno, it needed a good sound system instead.
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It's just me, but I am open-minded to consider buying gently-used electronic devices on the used market for items that are currently available as new, but not so for speakers (and sub woofers), as I've found it's hard to determine if they've been abused (unless the tweeters are blown). Certainly a seller of used audio equipment must realize that the absence of a manufacturer's warranty has significant value. I have a relative who seems to trade cars every year, but in his case, he not only takes a beating on the depreciations, but also is on the hook for the state sales tax! |
One thing I have never understood is how audiophiles have always seemed unusually indifferent to cost of buying and depreciation that factors into selling esoteric expensive items often purchased on a whim as a result of effective marketing at worst and often incomplete information at best. Maybe this is just the inevitable encounter with reality that has always seemed somewhat lacking. I know I am not wealthy enough to not care about taking a huge loss on a risky purchase. If I am shelling out a lot of money I want to minimize the risks. I’ve been relatively lucky in this regard over the years (but far from totally immune) and buy new or used from reputable USA sources only these days. The closer to home, the better. |
Oh, you'll be surprised...there are enough dudes who take out loans or whatever to buy things....he justifies it as financing a truck, a raptor or whatever else. I've even refused to sell something to a dude or two in the past when i figured out how he's coming up with the money, took me longer to find another fat cat instead. I understand there are a bunch of addicts around, but, i actually have a conscience (facepalm).
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It’s supply and demand coupled with basically zero barrier to entry when it comes time to sell something. Look at how many new brands and new products from existing companies come out each year. I’m amazed sometimes at the sheer number of new items. It’s like anything else these days—it’s easier to design, build and distribute than ever before. And there are some really fantastic new players in the market. Then look at how easy it is to sell something on multiple marketplaces. There is just so much used gear out there that keeps piling up. I think if you can get 50% of what you paid, you’re doing alright.
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Stuff with a msrp of 10k or under, more buyers...even 60 to 70 % of msrp can probably be considered a good deal for the used goods shopper. (frankly, there’s not enough of a margin built-in on many items) Stuff with a msrp of 50k or above (enormous margins built in), less buyers, buyers market, low ball all you want.... Audiophiles who fell for scam pricing (to begin with) are in for a rude awakening on the resale market. In the latter case, you better be sure you wanna hang on to something for a long time....or better be prepared to take the L when you wanna be in that ’elusive’ club. |
Realistically, your $50k retail speakers are worth $25k the minute the delivery guys pack up and leave. By the time you’re in the mood to sell them, you’re looking at maybe $12k. Not many used floorstanders transact anywhere near 50% of their retail value. Maybe Revel Salon 2s and a few others. |
I'm seeing the same thing as the OP. I used to be able to buy something used, play with it for a year, then sell it for about 10% less than I paid for it. So I'd be out the shipping cost and a couple hundred dollars, which was a reasonable price to pay for having a nice component for a year. Now I'm dropping used stuff 25% from what I paid for it a year or so ago and it still isn't moving. |
50% off of new gear within a couple years speaks to how overpriced this stuff is. $50,000 set of speakers going for $25,000 is ridiculous after two years. Manufactures creating very nice gear need to find a better way to sell gear to end consumers. Don’t hear the gear anyway because they don’t have it in dealer listening rooms and I feel bad for dealers because they got to buy all the gear upfront. then it gets Drop shipped from the manufacturer. Further it’s a pain in the ass selling gear so I just keep it and accumulate it like everyone else probably does. People who have the means buying higher end stuff don’t mind paying $15,000 more. This causes higher end gear to be more expensive because of the willingness of buyers to pay the price.
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Yeah, speaking of inflation and generally of the cost of living. When I get $450 electrical bill monthly, this is average, in CT, residing in an apartment... This is a big apartment though by usual standards but still. And then other things getting more expensive by the day. On the other hand, there is an advantage of that. By comparison, spending, say, $50 per month on tubes for my amp looks like nothing. |
@grannyring got it. We'll see.... Quick pain is better than long-lasting. |
@grislybutter Sort out the tariff and trade issues mentioned here. Feel all will be good in the not too distant future. Time will tell, but this not a permanent situation and only part of ongoing negotiations. I hope you can make your amp purchase soon. |
Post election, many things related to people's sense of stability are up in the air. This seems to be causeing people to be skittish with their disposable income. What do I mean? Inflation appears not to be under control as the cost of many staples that people need ever day do not seem to be dropping. Now, add to that the daily talk of what tariffs will do to automobile, lumber, home, and grocery prices and people are even more concerned that they will have less disposable income for the rest of the year. And yes, with the stock market and people's investments/401k's being reduced, the result is increased resistance to spending. If you are selling an audio product on one of the forums that is not in perfect condition, that is not very mainstream in looks, that is not one of the highly sought after brands, that is expensive to ship, that you no longer own the packaging, that is not generating a lot of recent buzz....prepare to get hammered because the market for most "disposable income, hobby, recreational related purchases" is down and will take some time to recover...maybe months, maybe years...depending on when people's confidence and savings/investments recover. In the mean time, there is always TMR for those who can't or won't wait. |
Ha! Well I still buy and sell and others will. Just doing it far less. It is a matter of degree. We all agree the number of Aphiles is small. If we are buying 50% less often, then….. We older folks still need to unload extra gear while we slow down and simplify. Your point is still valid in that I see the market for new and used gear continuing to slow over the short and long run. We are witnessing, in real time, this truth. |
I don’t think uncertainty is as big of a factor as some suggest. The audiophile population is aging and passing on. Part of aging is losing the desire to regularly buy and sell heavy and expensive gear. I am now 63 and am not as interested in going through all of the hassle associated with buying, trying and selling. Demand is down because the marketplace, which has always been rather small, is opting out of the constant buying and selling routine because of burn out and age. I rank this as the #1 reason for lower demand. Some opt out due to uncertainty while an equal number of others sense things are positive. I see an equal split on this factor. |
@toro3 Yes, I think if a new e.g. Simaudio 340 price goes up 25%, the used one will be worth more. But once we feel the effects, people will stay away from discretionary spending, demand will go down and prices have to follow. There is an audio feature though: sellers seem to be wealthy and not have to sell, they can just hold it and won't drop the price just to make money or clean out the basement. |
@grislybutter that would make sense: essentially initial increased prices in the used market (depending on the extent of economic health and tariffs) due to supply and demand from people avoiding purchasing the same or similar product new then, correct? And +1 @carlso63
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I own (and occasionally buy and sell) mostly 'vintage' audio equipment (1960s - 1970s), so my comments may not be 100% transferrable to the more modern audio community... but, IMO: I do feel like we MAY have now passed the 'peak' in terms of getting top dollar for used equipment. I think many of the factors mentioned by other commenters are valid partial reasons for this (current economic climate, large increases in shipping costs, ease of comparison shopping via the Internet / more people 'flipping' and selling, etc.) but I also feel there are larger forces at play. I think the main reason for the decline in the modern used audio market is that modern audio enthusiasts put more of a premium on having the latest technology; a lot of their interest in purchasing equipment is to access new tech and new features. And even 3 or 4 year old gear might not have all the latest tech and features. So they skew more towards buying brand-new vs. used right off the bat. For the vintage audio sector, interest in general is more driven by nostalgia and not as much by the technology itself... middle aged (and older) guys like me who either want stuff they had when they where younger (or a parent or relative had) or they always wanted "back in the day" but couldn't afford it back then... the main reason for a decline in vintage is simply - and bluntly - the main pool of hobbyists are dying off, and there's not a lot of younger people filling in the ranks (most younger people, if they have any interest in audio AT ALL will gravitate towards the modern equipment with the technology they are more familiar with...) The other main problem in both audio communities (IMO) is that sellers are often overly optimistic about setting a price point. They look at listings on places like eBay, Audio Mart, Reverb, etc. and often times feel justified setting their own pricing based on the highest priced listings they see... and many times that listing has been sitting there, with basically zero interest, for months or even years. One obvious thing is to filter down to the actual "sold" price for the same equipment; as there is often a large difference in what something is listed at, and what it actually sold for. I also suggest looking at how long the item was listed (when that information is available) so you can decide on perhaps a balance between what you want to get for your gear, and how long you want to have to list it for, answer messages, send demo videos or host in-person demos for, etc... Another important factor is you need to price for the local market you are in. With shipping becoming so expensive - and horror stories of buyers receiving damaged gear on their doorsteps becoming easier to find and read about - more people are shying away from buying expensive, heavy electronics that need to be shipped to them. I don't sell a lot of equipment, but I have noticed a trend towards more and more of what I do sell being bought locally. And those potential out-of-state buyers being a lot more concerned with shipping details such as how is the equipment being packed / who is packing it (DIY or a professional shipper); which shipping company am I going to use; details on what my 'policy' is if something arrives damaged, etc. Honestly, for me, losing a little in sale price because it's a local sale and not getting shipped to LA / NY / Chicago for top dollar... is often offset by not having to hassle with packing and shipping - and the buyers who still insist you can ship a 60 pound piece of audio equipment across the country for $50, so why I am I "ripping them off" when I quote $150 to (professionally) pack and ship my unit..?
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@toro3 it will increase used prices. Or everyone will be broke and push them down. Probably both in this order. |
In 2008/09 I purchased quite a bit of gear due to the recession. The used market seemed healthy with quite a bit of deals as people navigated the recession in the US. I’m curious what 2025 will yield given the political and economic uncertainty. Tariffs on Canada and China for new components and parts will likely push up prices. This may increase traffic and interest in the used market in two ways: 1. People selling their gear to give themselves a buffer 2. And people purchasing to avoid the price increase for new components. As for myself, I’ve scrapped future purchases given the industries that my spouse and I are employed in. Instead, I’m going to focus on gardening and landscaping (in conjunction to listening to music) for its therapeutic benefits. |
One great thing about Google is how it dredges up ads for long-since-sold gear. Not infrequently, you see circa-2000 gear commanding less money in 2010 (when it was 10 years old) than the ask today, at 25 years old, in 2025. Is it possible that the current market trend is simply a reversal to the mean?
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People are also alarmed by economic instability. With the stock market tanking and trade wars in our midst, dropping megabucks on a used piece of audio gear doesn’t strike many of us as a prudent move. I wonder if the consumers of used vs new high end gear are two different groups of buyers. If I had Elon Musk bank account I wouldn’t be buying used. Less exalted wealth status dwellers might be more interested in buying and reselling high end gear and be more concerned that they generate enough of a return on used equipment to maintain the sustainability of their ability to keep churning |
Yes I’ve had the same experience lately. I could guess at the reasons why but it’s a real thing. I have a pair of speakers I’m still selling and someone asked me why I was selling for 1/2 price. I was honest and told them I had priced them higher but no one was buying. If I don’t get fair value I’ll keep them and find a use. Glad this is a hobby and not a needed income stream. |