Advice needed: It's time for a new DAC

I have a chord DAVE and it will be for sale next week. Great DAC and I still absolutely love it. M-scaler too.

But I decided to try a Lampzator GG3 and it is spectacular. Tremendous soundstage, realism, and sharp-tight-defined from top to bottom.

Big fan of the DHT and I think SE is the way to go (vs balanced). I also ordered with Volume Control and basicly use it as a preamp. really increased "slam" or "punch" and I think that is the DHT acting as a preamp.

Jerry

op y ou are not providing enough information

what are you using currently using?

how wil you feed the dac?

we would recomend the Aqua hifi forula it is very musical yret has great resolution plays all high res files.

it is also completely upgradable so if aqua impoves the dac you can grow with the dac

the berkley wouldnt be on my list as you need an additional interface box for usb and most high res sfiles play over usb

the chord dave is very good but it is a touch lean

Daveand troy

audio intelect NJ

aqua and chord dealers

Berkeley Alpha.

I love my Audio Research Reference CD9SE. I had a Berkeley Alpha Reference 3 in my system for a couple weeks. I found the ARC a tad more musical… my preference, but the Berkeley was ever so much more detailed with nearly all the musicality. It is an outstanding DAC.

Beautiful speakers you have. Have you tried a thick carpet in front of your speakers and you might try making a heavy absorption panel to put in front of the fireplace when listening.

Hi @audiotroy 

Thank you for your reply.  To answer your questions:

what are you using currently using?
An RME-ADI2fs

how wil you feed the dac?
A Lumin U1

How does this information help you answer my initial question?

I use AES/EBU right now and I would likely keep it the same, hence why the Berkley made the list.  For context, I have, in the past owned an MSB Analog, a Berkley Alpha V1 and a Chord DAVE.  I owned each, however, when I was in a condo and I was exclusively using headphones.  Now, I exclusively use speakers. 

Hello @ghdprentice !

Thank you so much.  I really appreciate your comment as you've owned the Berkeley.  The CD9SE...  WOW!  I really adore AR stuff.  The some of best amps I've heard (save the Boulder 2160) have been AR.  

Thank you for your kind words.  My wife doesn't like carpet, however, when I have a serious listening session, I do put down two thick blankets on the floor.  It's an interesting idea you had about putting absorption in front of the fireplace. I have a bit of a fuzzy center image because of it and I never considered movable panels.

I have 4 5" thick Vicoustic panels on the walls behind the DAW's.  They make a minor difference as-is, but I wonder if they were on a discrete stand with casters that I rolled out (like the blankets on the floor) if that would help...  Very astute observation and thank you for the advice.

@bigfatpaulie When I want to evaluate DACs I use my headphones (RAAL SR1a or CA-1a) to really hear my gear. When you had your phones which DAC did you like the best? The DAC I own now is what sounded the best on my phones.

Tidal vs Qubuz. I have both and I do not even think about it. Just enjoy the music with which ever has the tune I want.

I grew up in Toronto and there were a lot of good shops then. I still see some of the same stores around and some new ones with even higher priced gear. 

BTW - how long is your speaker cables?

@bigfatpaulie In all honesty, the T+A DAC 200 should be in that list above considering all of the priorities you list (soul, holography, and resolution). I've said it before but I still think the DAC 200 is the best I've heard under $15K. In full transparency I am a T+A dealer, but I've had more than one customer switch from the DAVE to the DAC 200 because of its improved sound staging ability and soulfulness.

I’m really liking the Cen.Grand Deluxe DSD DAC, but hell... I LOVE my Tambaqui. I’d recommend the MMT, but the Cen D³ is excellent, and my biggest praises for it are in comparison with yet another DAC, two Intergarated amplifiers and a power amplifier

Of the three DAC’s you listed I would pick the Berkely V3, since I’ve heard less criticisms about it, but truthfully have heard less overall about it compared to the others.

My Cen D³ bests my T+A DAC200 in sound stage size, depth, and especially transient decay. I swear you can "hear" the air in the room whilst the artist was recording in between notes and at moments of silence. Just a very cool sound, almost to the effect that my Luxman M10x brought to my system when first listening (prior to the Cen D³). Secondly the Cen D³ made the sound presentation for my Technics SU-R1000 almost indistinguishable from my Riviera labs Levante. So the Cen D³ brings a "tube like" sound to a Class AB digital integrated amp that neared the liquidity in sound of an amazing hybrid amp. I was so impressed at how much character the SU-R1000 took on with the Cen D³ (good character at that).

Ultimately my MMT is my favorite, but the Cen D³ with the Levante just makes what I love about both pieces of gear stand out even more, not too mention the Cen D³’s volume control is better then the somewhat finicky Levante and allows me to run the JL subs via RCA out.

All and all I highly recommend the Cen D³.

My only digs are that the company’s reputation is unproven along with product service/support. I’ve ran into customs tearing apart my unit packaging and just throwing everything back into the box. I had a coaxial input issue with this unit and am otherwise am awaiting a second replacement unit. But still would recommend it. I’ve been swapping all my gear in and out with it and it sounds great with pretty much everything I own at all price points.

@blisshifi I could 100% see how a DAVE owner would love the DAC200, but I’m going to be listing mine now having the Cen D³. The T+A build quality and feature set is just incredible and in my heart of hearts wanted to keep the T+A because I really like how much time, attention and quality craftsmanship went into it, but I feel it’s DSD DAC far outshine it’s Burr Brown DAC chip, which kinda let me down.

It’s resolution and vocal forward presentation would again attract DAVE fans.

@bigfatpaulie that fuzzy center image is most likely due to first reflection points not being treated. The fireplace has some say in it but it’s negligible. The direction of the sound your Sashas put out is forward with tweeter and midrange dispersion to the sides at a slight angle. I don’t have a fireplace but had exactly the same issue. Cured by treating the first reflection points and installing bass traps to tighten up and refocus the lower registers. Snapped together nicely. 
May be talk your wife into hanging heavy curtains over that window by the right speaker. Mean time, toeing the speakers in to fire directly at your listening position should help with imaging as well.

As to the DACs, you have a nice list. If you use Tidal and don’t need DSD, go with the Berkeley Alpha 3 ( has MQA processing capabilities). However, keep in mind that it has no USB input and you will be using AES with it most likely, which means the clock in your streamer is what you’re going to be relying on. Not sure how good that section of the Lumin is. 
With the DAVE you can use USB (will most likely sound significantly better using that interface with your streamer) but you don’t get MQA. Chord tone is superb though. 
With MSB, you get awesome USB implementation, MQA and DSD capabilities. 
So if I were you, my choice would be the MSB Discrete. 
Just thinking out loud….

@bigfatpaulie 

@audphile1 makes a bunch of great points. I left out the Cen D³ doesn't have I²S in if that's something that you wanted, and converts all incoming signals to DSD up to 1024 (no MQA).

There might be an upgrade in the future and has a open module slot.

Some good DACs recommended here,don’t exclude the Weiss 501, amazing DAC. See the Steve Hoff review on You tube.

Save yourself some $$  the Excellent T+A 200 dac can compete with Anydac up to $15k and compared to the chord Dave much more musical and at $7200 

before discounts and HQ player built in a true Audiophile bargain 

check out all the Great reviews and get a demo unit to try out .

that ones next on my list.

OP I have a bit of a fuzzy center image

In my experience, unless you find the natural sound system like the right speaker in the below video, the fuzzy/empty center image is impossible to avoid. All audio systems sound unnatural and fuzzy/empty center image like the left speaker in below video. Alex/WTA

A sample of the natural sound system.

Original music

Samples of unnatural sounds.

Hi everyone!!  Thank you for all the input.  I'll do my best to answer everyone, but if I miss someone  I'm sorry.  

@yyzsantabarbara Of the DAC's I used to own, my favorite was probably DAVE, however, I was using it with a DNA Stellaris amp, fancy glass, and modded HD800's.  It was a very different system than my speakers and synergy is important.  I also had different goals than I do now.  My speaker cables are way too long.  They are also basic and will be replaced down the line.  The amp is in the basement, however, I am going to move it so it is basically just below the ceiling so the cables, in the end, will likely be 4 feet or so.
 

@blisshifi I originally had the DAC200 on my list because of the all the hype.  I also took it off because of all the hype.  Guys like Huff, it seems everything new is "the best" so I just ignore him and people like him.  I'be been around long enough to know that there is no such thing as a "giant killer" or a $15k item for $7k.  Too much hype for me, I guess...

@ja_kub_sz I've never heard of the Cen.Grand.  Thank you.  I have heard the Mola Mola and I guess I am alone in my feelings about it.  I don't care for it at all - I find it thin and lifeless sounding.  I also found it had a lot of digital grain.  For reference, I feel the same about the PS Audio DSD.  They aren't for me personally.

Thank you @audphile1 .  The speakers are toed in.  It could likely be solved by more room treatment (eg curtains) but things like that just aren't an option.  I have to work with what I have.

@vicdior Thank you for the Weiss suggestion.  It's another one of those hyped up Huff DAC's...  First the DAC200 was better than anything for twice the price, then the 204 was better than the DAC200 at half that price...  It just doesn't add up as then a 204 is better than any $15k DAC.  It's all too cloudy for me.

@bigfatpaulie GIK sells stands for the panels. Mount a thick GIK 244 panels on these stands for each first reflection point. Store these two panels in the garage or something like that, and break em out for your critical listening sessions. Then stow them away. You can even do the third panel in front of fireplace. May be that’s an option.

The DAC204 and DAC205 are relatively affordable options to Weiss Engineering’s higher-grade units such as the DAC501 and the HELIOS. They do not have the onboard digital processing capabilities of those units, nor do they include headphone outputs or remote controls.Also,it all depends on what gear and cables, speakers you use to get that synergy system that sounds pleasant to your ears.There are also plenty of other reviews you can search on the web but better still ,if you can go listen at a dealer.Good luck with your choice.

@bigfatpaulie I am using a Schitt Yggi+ LIM DAC that I like a lot. I have a Benchmark DAC3B in my Livingroom system, The plan is to get a PlayBack Designs Dream DAC to supplement the DAC3B. You may want to read up a bit on the PBD. I wanted a DAC that was FPGA based and the PBD designer made the first FPGA based DAC. In fact, he mentored Ted Smith at PS Audio. Nagra DACs are also using his lower end tech.

I already have a lower end PDB streamer, and it is comparable to the Lumin X1 (using fibre) and the Sonore OpticalRendu (fibre again). At the moment I am only using SPDIF on the PBD streamer and it can still compete with the other 2. It has fibre but I need get a PBD DAC to use that feature. I figure if he can make a streamer this good his DACs should be spectacular.

The other FPGA DAC I was considering was a Rockna. I did not consider the DAVE or the PS Audio.

The following thread could be helpful for your DAC ideas:

Audiogon Discussion Forum

If you mostly stream with ROON, JRiver, or a computer you may want to talk with a fellow Canadian Mitch Barnett. The dude is a genius at what he does and is a relatively cheap alternative to resolve speaker placement. The adjustment in the digital signal is done BEFORE the DAC. All work is done remotely.

He is now also making a name for himself in the headphone space. I used his tech when my room was not acoustically nice as it is now. I no longer use his solution (with ROON) but it is genius level stuff and my safety net for speaker room interactions. In my opinion, the most important aspect of good sound.

Digital Room Calibration Services, Convolvers, Headphone Filtersets (accuratesound.ca)

Monoblock amps will solve you speaker cable issue. I use Benchmark XLR for my lengths over 15 feet. Those cables are cheap and do the job well.

Check out the current review of HEM Ferrum Audio Products

EISA HiFi chapter members gave WANDLA the recognition by awarding it Best DAC of the Year, we just were beyond ourselves. The Converter proved to be The Best Converter. Our EISA winning streak began two years ago, back in 2021, with the success of our Ferrum HYPSOS hybrid power system

Both pieces $3995

Search Wandla reviews

When I was looking to get an integrated amp, I demoed the Luxman 509x and it was rather good. Then I made the mistake of listening to the Luxman c900u + m900u with the Luxman DAC in the then top end Luxman SACD player. The separates are significantly better than the 509x, mainly because of the stronger power supply. I mention this because I see the m900u on the used market at lower and lower prices. The m900u can also be run in mono.

The Luxman DAC is what a lot of people consider musical. Not my taste since I like a bit less warmth but that was a great system.

I think I just motivated myself to call Mitch to see if he can improve on my Livingroom system. It is a Yamaha NS500 speaker + CODA #16 amp. The speakers are a bit too close to the front wall. The sound is great but maybe it could be better. My ceiling is over 20 feet so maybe that is why the sound is good.

Nice setup

Congrats

Mola Mola Tambaqui

@ja_kub_sz ,

Before you sell your T+A, make sure that you have have enough hours on the PCM side of the DAC. There are a couple of posters on the HeadFi forum who recently found out that the PCM section took about 200+ hours to come on it's own. In fact these guys liked the PCM presentation as much or slightly better than the DSD presentation. But this is a headphone forum and they do not have as much experience with loudspeakers.

Good luck!

@milpai good to know... I feel like I've put at least that into it, but yeah I'll do some more listening.

DAC's have a huge impact on ultimate performance.  Synergy is also a real thing in my experience. Some DAC's I liked with one combination of gear, but not with another. Try to demo as much/many as you can if possible (not always easy).  Old timers, like me, all have our favorites. My faves Ayre and Bricasti.

@bigfatpaulie , I own the Tambaqui and for a while I didn’t quite know how I felt about it. But I was putting it in standby all the time, which was my mistake. I realized that to sound its best, it takes quite a few hours - maybe 10 or more.

Not sure if this applies to you but I also found it to be lifeless and with a bit of glare until I realized I should just leave it on. I thought it didn’t quite have enough impact and as such wasn’t engaging. Now that I leave it on, I think it is fantastic - high resolution and dynamic but with a hair of lushness to it that to my ear at least makes it musical.

I own a TotalDac D1 and a Baetis Revolution streamer streaming Tidal. I think in your price range yiu should 

Take a look at TotalDac

I highly recommend the PS AUDIO Directstream DAC MkII. You can hear Beautiful music through it.. Enough said...

Merason DAC1.

@bigfatpaulie, the Meitner MA3 hits your first two requirements, especially the first one, plus it's made in Canada!    I personally found its resolution very good but not great, compared to a few other DACs I've also owned.   I've owned the Berkeley Alpha V2, a Bricasti, and currently own a Weiss that I think is a bit more resolving than the MA3.   The MA3 though definitely has that "Sounds have meat to them and texture.  The music feels real." quality,  as I replaced a very fine MojoAudio R2R NOS DAC with it and felt like it was a big upgrade.

Hello @bigfatpaulie,  lots of good advice here!  @ghdprentice is always spot on.

I have had a friend's Dave in for direct comparison to my MM Tambaqui.  He sold the Dave and got a Tambaqui if that tells our story.  It sounds great buy it self with internal streamer or bridge, but excels when combined with the Grimm MU1 in my case, or another great streamer (Aurender N20 or better).  Many great reviews call the Grimm / Tambaqui a match made in heaven (Netherlands).  I have one stand alone Tambaqui, and another in the MM Makua Preamp; both are excellent.