I genuinely don’t know what’s wrong with using zip cord and maybe someone could elaborate a bit more on that, but I will tell you all that Allen Sides who’s a masterful technician and very highly regarded used some Home Depot cable that he discusses here and suggested it.
https://youtu.be/w3k9tLzrZGQ?si=Yb66307Oad_5UovJ We decided to use the same cable from Home Depot in the link below, and received criticism until we showed them who suggested it.
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I did a comparison in the 1990’s and included a Home Depot 12 gauge power cord (with ends cut off, cut to length), cheap Radio Shack speaker wire and a set of Transparent and Cardas Speaker cables. The Home Depot sounded great... it was better than the Radio Shack stufff... I might have compared Monster (I know I compared several Monster products... they were no better than the what comes with components, speaker wire may have been one of them). The Transparent and Cardas were much better... and very different from each other. At the time I think I had a Threshold preamp and amp. I have much better equipment now. I will say, that my office system is still using a Home Depot power cord speaker wire. If you don’t want to spend more than $100 - $150... it is a very good alternative. I find the lower tier speaker wire, power cords and interconnects, generally of little benefit... especially the hooking up budget components. I have a Schiit Gungnir multi-bit DAC, and Prima Luna Integrated amp, with Totem speakers on my office system. I am sure if this was my main system... I would research the heck out of it and find some used $1k cables and interconnects that would improve the sound a little. |
audphile1, Let's put our cards on the table shall we. You wouldn't like any video no matter how it sounded. Your feathers were ruffled from the start and continue to be ruffled. You're just getting yourself all worked up over this. |
Must got be slow over on ASR or Amir has got his panties in a bunch over Iran or illegals of certain religious persuasions being shipped off to South Sudan, with High Court approval. @rankaudio Don't be concerned for us over here we're perfectly happy blowing $1000s on glorified bellwire and lampcord. BTW Topping is a t*rd and it can't be polished. Lipstick on a pig, pearls before swine. |
@jasonbourne71 I'm with you on this one...Very few speaker manufacturers use high quality internal wiring. Assuming 4 ohm speakers and amplifiers under 500 wpc 12 gauge monster cable is more than adequate for any kind of wire run under 50 feet and there will be no audible benefit to using heavier or more expensive wire. So much of the things that have audiophiles degenerating into hand wringing over the choice to make are so inconsequential as to be laughable. Just do what is expedient and don't sweat the choice and get back to listening to the music...that is after all what we go thru all this trouble for. |
@rankaudio no ruffled feathers. We established a while ago that you had a hidden agenda. You acknowledge it and apologized. I’m giving you my honest opinion the system in the video sounds thin, bright and sibilant. I’m familiar with that Malia track. It’s one of those demo tracks that will make any system sound good. Just like any other cable denier you continue to try and stir something up. You can search the forums. There are dozens of discussions on this cables matter or don’t matter topic. No matter what explanation is being provided to you or what experiences are being shared, you won’t be able to get this thru your thick skull. So it’s a waste of time. Start a thread that actually brings value. This cables matter BS is worthless. |
audphile1,Just like any other cable denier you continue to try and stir something up.
I’m good with your honesty and I’m not completely in disagreement that cables can make a difference, just so you’re aware. For example, I recently had a situation with some idle hum which was occurring because of shielding issues with a particular pair of RCA cables. I used a better shielded pair of RCA’s and the idle noise was removed. With regard to the demos, I also agree that certain good tracks like Malia can disguise what speakers are doing. You can see I also discuss it here. https://youtu.be/K29LPl9LF4I?si=Nb4REIWUw8OSa3z_ I also don’t disagree about some issues I had with how the 1.7i’s sounded which you can also see I shared here. https://youtu.be/6ZIPehgRBpU?si=a-9orchXR7Uwvgyf There’s nothing wrong if audiophiles would like to spend some bucks on some nice looking cables, I have a couple buddies who do, however, you have not answered my comment and I don’t think you can come up with any answer to this question. Even if the cables were $20,000 as you asked, how can they be faithful if they are plugged into a speaker terminal that has about 1ft of Monster cable behind it? Here’s a video that may resonate better with your ears. |
@audphile1 Please define “faithful”. Odds are overwhelming that 1 ft of added cable of equal or greater gauge will not add any appreciable resistance or capacitance to any cable to change the resulting sound. The only thing the OP has not defined is how long the original cable is. If the OP is talking about being 1ft short on a 3 ft premium cable (amps right next to the speaker) then there is a high chance that something will change. If the OP is using long cables then a 1ft add, again, would have negligible impact. Ultimately, as I said earlier, the blocker is really what’s being used by the speaker manufacturer. Many times it’s no better than 24 gauge bell wire. |
+1. All connectors degrade the sound. IME, the speaker binding post (biggest metal mass) degrades SQ the most. Bigger and more robust binding post sounds the worse. Alex/WTA |
I never used word “faithful”. That’s one. I’ll answer your question now. I normally refrain from using terms like neutral. We don’t know what neutral is. As far as I’m concerned there are no “faithful” cables. Every cable will color the sound to a certain degree. I’ve heard cables in my system that rendered tone of instruments and vocals completely unnatural. The way I approach is simple. Get the best possible components and speakers, get your room acoustics right and then try different cables. Whatever sounds the most natural to you and gives you goosebumps that’s the cable for you. But there’s always room for improvement. |
OP, YMMV.... I was in the same dilemma about 2 months ago. i I was using Transparent Music wave and was short of about 2 feet..( was in the process of rearranging the system layout) so I decided out of fun, to add a zip cord BUT terminating it correctly and NOT messing with the Terminals of the Transparent cable. Yeah, it sounded GOOD and I thought, Heck it works BUT my curiosity told me to test it without the zip cord, so i had to pull the speaker wires outside (trip hazard) and remove the zip cord. Oh no, there was a loss of dimensionality of speakers. ( my speakers are Falcon Gold badge known for 3D presentations) To cut it short, I ended changing my cables to longer Ultra Transparent Threw my budget off big time |
Let's say there is a pair of speakers (have cheap zip cords inside) have same sounds and conditions. If the right speaker cable is replaced with a better sound (not more expensive) speaker cable, then the right speaker will sound better. It's simple. Any questions? Alex/Wavetouch audio. |
To the others, thanks for sharing your comments and experiences. audphile1, The term "faithful" is nothing new in audio. It's been used countless times in HiFi for decades. This is obviously a term you took for granted and/or are not familiar with. Google it and see for yourself. It can represent various meanings.
AI Overview 2. Accuracy and Fidelity to an Original:
In this case, the "cables" themselves. You're straying off topic though, and I'm only discussing the genuine nature of your theoretical $20,000 cable scenario. Of course components, rooms, etc will affect sound and we all should know that. Theoretically, nothing is going to present the original format, nor does it necessarily need too. The way I presented the OP was intended to weed out whether or not the assumptions of premium cables may be getting taken for granted or not. It was not intended as clickbait as you suggest and if you still feel that way, then don't click on this thread. No one is holding you hostage here. Audioholics did measurements and listening tests here. https://youtu.be/kR12Ttuxobs?si=rWYi5zfQJY1TepcU I use simple 14 guage copper wire with a total cost of around $25-$50 and find that it works perfectly fine because I don't believe I can hear a difference. This doesn't mean enthusiasts should feel wrong or bad because they bought some expensive cables. It's fine if they would like to purchase them. My BIGGEST concern is exactly what "pcolvin" mentioned to you about my comments which is..... ”how can they be faithful if they are plugged into a speaker terminal…” Hence the question. In my opinion, the $20,000 cable would somehow need to go straight to the crossover or source, whatever that is. Theoretically if a person produces a dragster with X amount of power but uses a tire that can't handle that X amount of power, then theoretically, how can that true X amount of power be grounded in order to launch off the line properly? It's just common sense. It's the "principle" of the matter about what is it that a fancy cable is being plugged into. Most HiFi enthusiasts do NOT see what's behind speaker terminals and therefore may often take it for granted. |
FYI. My dealer dropped by a Nordost Odin 2 set of interconnects ($20K). After a couple days I had to take them off because they sounded so good... I was starting to think about how I could put together the money to buy them... they were strung between $20K each components. I kept them much longer and I was going to figure out a way to do it. They were connected with traditional RCA connectors. I am certain the story would have been the same with their speaker cables... only they would have been much more expensive and the difference more pronounced. |
This brings up an interesting philosophical point: We are all, I think, on a quest for ever better sounding systems. If, like @ghdprentice relates, a person is in a space to discern and appreciate the positive impact a $20K accessory can have on furthering that quest, yet balks at spending the price they cost, then it could be argued that the skill and knowledge and expertise that person has built over the decades is actually detrimental to their enjoyment of their system and of the music being played on it, relative to a less evolved audiophile's. A sort of a high-end riff on ignorance is bliss. Do we want to be right, or do we want to be happy?
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@audioman58 that's really condescending. |
@audioman58 I didn't mean to reference you about my comment, it was supposed to be @devinplombier |
You’re right - just knowing about it does not. But if we found ourselves in a headspace where we want it and we need it and we have to have it, yet we can’t, then it can negatively affect our enjoyment. I am clearly very far from the point where I might feel that my system won’t be complete without that last amazing accessory. And if I’m being honest, part of the reason I’m posting this is because I don’t want to get there.
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I’ve been on the sidelines for sometime just reading comments like this and staying away not making any contributions in the forum. Have held back up until a couple of weeks ago. Also my writing is not the best so some guy is going to let it be known. So I join and here I am……… Have not read these comments for days and then get back to it tonight. It’s like I just walked into a bar room with stools flying everywhere along with glass hitting the walls. Some of you guys just get into a bar room fight because they have been slighted. Then the calm cool collective guy jumps in and goes at it too and all the negative comments keep coming. We know who the a******s are. Just let them be. Do not slight them. They’re not leaving the bar so just do the best you can without jumping back again. Suck it up. Just do not look their way. Enjoy the jukebox. |
@jl35 that’s right. |
Though I’ve been in the OP’s position before, I agree with others that the best solution would be to sell your present cables and invest that amount in a nice set of cables of the proper length, hook ‘em up, let them cook a bit and call it a day. That being said, as someone who prefers to do things the hard way, see if the manufacturer of your cables will sell you a single terminated cable of a length double what you need. Cut it in half, and, splice each half to one end of each of your present cables just short of the termination already there. Preserve as much of the inner goodness as possible, and finish it off by sealing the splice with a proper girdle of heat shrink. Be sure to slide that heat shrink on before soldering, you don’t want an “Oh Schiit!” moment! Maybe less expensive would be if the manufacturer has a 3-4’ scrap of unterminated cable they’d sell cheap. But that would mean 2 splices (and twice the work) on each cable, to preserve the existing terminals. |
jl35, I already addressed the reason why I asked the question in the manner I did, so your comment about a troll is your own trolling. Your first response was “don’t do it” so obviously you didn’t know you were already doing it yourself, you just didn’t know it, just as countless others don’t. Sometimes the manner in the way a question is asked is to keep the other persons response as genuine as possible. If I’m a private investigator chasing a suspect and I’m questioning a witness who claims they saw the suspect and I ask the witness if the suspect was about 5’7” when I know the suspect is actually 6’4" and the witness says....No, this guy was over 6ft, then I’m far more likely to believe that the witness’s answer is genuine. The other possibility is maybe you were concerned I might damage the cable in which case you mentioned that too in a later comment, but then again maybe you didn’t know there’s a safer way to extend a cable using specific adapters. I’ve only been into hifi for about ten years while I’ve been into telescopes for about 35 years, so it’s very easy to spot bias with observers and telescopes when I see it. The problem is that I never knew how much real bias there was until I got into this HiFi industry. That’s because I’ve already listened to gear costing ten to a hundred times the price of my own and in countless cases, it doesn’t sound any nicer or even worse, doesn’t sound nice at all. I have a DAC that costs eight times as much as the one I normally use and I actually prefer the lower cost DAC for certain reasons. This may not always be the case, but it can often be the case. If a person is comparing one component to another and they already know what the component is, this can often influence or bias the listeners opinion before they even hear it. I have failed many blind tests. There’s many YouTube videos where very experienced listeners fail blind tests too. When YouTube HiFi videos first started coming out, they were complaining about how the magazines were sellouts. The Youtube channels are often even worse than some of the magazines were because many are desperate to monetize their channels now. Again, it’s fine if some listeners want some premium cables. I’m just wondering if some listeners genuinely know what they’re actually hearing. There are often cases, depending on what the gear is, where I genuinely hear differences, so hopefully others don't get me wrong. |
lordmelton, I like how you worded that. 
