I dont see any scanspeak woofers there. High end audio is overpriced from the start. Every so often you get companies that dont overprice. Thats how you get $374 high end speakers.
"a stylish and affordable launch into the world of high-performance audio"
OK, is there such a thing as "too good to be true"? They're definitely gorgeously beautifully looking and certainly at least as good looking as any "high-end" speakers! But look at the price! Only $374.00!!! Can you have the cake and eat it too! There has to be a catch! Is there a devil lurking somewhere here! I mean a high-end ScanSpeak woofer is already at least $370.00 in cost. And that does not take into account a tweeter, and xover inductors, capacitors ... and so on. And what do you tell people who paid $200K for a Wilson?
https://www.audioadvice.com/paradigm-monitor-se-6000f+color-White
https://www.audioadvice.com/paradigm-monitor-se-6000f+color-White
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I dont see any scanspeak woofers thereAt least what you said is not science fiction :-) I used "ScanSpeak" as a matter of comparison, that is a decent ScanSpeak woofer is already 370 bucks. For example, there are five drivers in that speaker above. 375/5 = 75 But of course you have to take into account the cabinet cost, paint, marketting ... |
The larger part of performance improvements possible in generic speakers are brought about via lore and applied lore. I don’t expect the speaker to sound exceptional I expect it to sound acceptable. Acceptable to the average ear. Like a klipsch HT speaker, or a Polk HT speaker, or a JBL HT speaker. All of them being made in china. With budget drivers. Like... drivers that are $10 each. The economics of speakers has not changed. There are no exceptions. This is just Paradigm breaking down and getting their slice of the best buy slumming money. |
$374 for one speaker. Figure half of that is the cabinet. That leaves $187 for 5 drivers and a crossover. Call it $30 per. That's retail. And zero margin. Oh and nothing for binding posts and feet, not to mention shipping carton and packaging. What could go wrong? People love to talk about the law of diminishing returns. Which is bogus. Clearly the diminishing returns come when things get so cheap most of the cost is in the packaging. |
What an easy way to move up from junk to a first step into better sound. Add a pair of self powered subs for music system, or 1 sub and center for Theater I like my small pair of Paradigms, and have heard and liked larger models, none recently. Nicely efficient, allows trying tubes easily. They say break them in, this review did that. from translation of Swedish review: The sound from the Monitor 6000F is vibrant and the sound image being painted is both warm and clearly defined, without ever feeling analytical or boring. The crucial middle register is really shiny. The only criticism is possibly that the rendering feels a little tame, as we would like to have a little more punch and bottom in the base and we will soon experience this in the company of Paradigm's sub-base, Defiance V10. But first, let's look at another important part of the home theater chain…. full review https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.senses.se%2Fparadigm-hogtalare-recension%2F hard to believe, but low price is real, they will not risk their reputation selling junk, so it must be to broaden awareness of their brand, .... whatever. they have a smalller version, still 3 way, only 4 drivers, $285. ea, also black or white. |
You may NEVER find the right cartridge, but you will have a lot of fun along the way. I am advocating MM over MC, and a new cartridge, i.e. new stylus, and HIGH output, for NOW. Not only solves LP sound right away, it lets you take more time and do more research before you move to new, more important, mpore expensive equipment. And, more time to carefully asses you desired features. The point of a basic elliptical, high output, is it will be your base for future comparison to future cartridges (returns accepted!). Keep the existing MC, High Output 2.5mv, it may sound fantastic on eventual new equipment with no need for MC pre-pre stage. Ortofom 2M Red produces 5.5mv, $100. https://www.amazon.com/Ortofon-Red-Moving-Magnet-Cartridge/dp/B000WMCEKK/ref=sxin_0_ac_d_pm?ac_md=3-1-QmV0d2VlbiAkNTAgYW5kICQyMDA%3D-ac_d_pm&keywords=phono+cartridge&pd_rd_i=B000WMCEKK&pd_rd_r=c69f59d7-1390-4f4d-8e48-8cbd1c56731a&pd_rd_w=JXnwC&pd_rd_wg=MR0Jx&pf_rd_p=aba5dc0d-7593-4752-a14d-357ecc5c98cc&pf_rd_r=VQHY3XZSAGASYAE5D0QM&psc=1&qid=1576685064 excerpt about 2M Red The Absolute Sound Product of the Year and Editors' Choice Award-Winning Ortofon 2M Red Sets the Standard for Entry-Level High-End Moving-Magnet Phono Cartridges The Ortofon 2M Red MM phono cartridge is as good as audiophile-grade moving-magnet types come at its price point. It features Ortofon's trademark split pole pins, an invention which enables moving-magnet cartridges to have flat frequency response, just like a moving-coil cartridge. 2M Red also uses an improved engine, which provides an increased output of 5.5mV. The 2M Red features a tipped elliptical diamond , engineered for precise and accurate retrieval of the information in the record groove. The Japanese company's 2M series was developed in conjunction with Danish designer Møller Jensen Design. Inspired by the facets of a diamond, whose contours gracefully trace the grooves on a record's surface, 2M 's handsome elegance establishes a great combination of form and functionality. Ortofon' s philosophy is to make cartridges which reproduce the record grooves as accurately as possible, without coloring the sound. The 2M series design has been optimized for ease of mounting and their weight and size fit virtually any current turntable. “[This] is one sophisticated and musical cartridge—for the price of a nice dinner for two.” —Neil Gader, The Absolute Sound , Editors’ Choice Award “If you’re looking for a high-value cartridge…the 2M Red is an excellent place to start.” — Stereophile , Class D Recommended Component “It’s worth experimenting, because at best this is one of the most detailed cartridges we’ve come across at this kind of price.” — Tech Radar “The midrange is full and expressive, handling vocals with sensitivity and warmth. The bass and treble interact well here, and while we'd like more authority from the bass, You need time to consider whether you will try Tubes, preamp or amp also, another reason to get listening right away with a basic elliptical. |
I have a pair of Infinity Primus 360 speakers ($568/pair) and they sound amazingly good for the price. I use them in my 2.1 theater setup with a modest priced Mirage subwoofer. Do they sound as good as my $8k Thiel CS6's? Of course not. But they are an incredible value. I'm lucky that I have the means to afford high end equipment in my dedicated system but if the Infinities were all I had I could enjoy listening to music though them every day. The price performance ratio is compressing for all stereo gear. This is as it should be. I was surprised after going to AXPONA to hear some very modest systems outperform some megabuck systems. There were also megabuck systems that sounded glorious but overall the real-world gear acquitted itself very well. When a company like Paradigm designs a budget speaker, whether or not you like the "Paradigm sound," you know that it was thoroughly engineered and that the trade-offs were carefully considered. Kudos to them for using their design, manufacturing, and distribution experience to build a product that many people can afford. |
Funny all the keyboard warriors coming into this thread to put down a speaker they would never consider. Sad thing, or maybe not so sad, is these speakers in a somewhat properly acoustically treated room would likely image and create a sound-stage every bit as good or better than many of the expensive systems with crummy room acoustics all too common from "audiophiles". To 8th-note's point, whether expensive or not, they are from a company that knows how to design speakers and make trade-offs. You may not like their sound, but many do, both at the low and high end, that is why they are successful. |
More expensive things are always better...that's just how it is. It's important that through posting things one notes the expensive things they use, and how sophisticated and smart one is due to that sort of thing because hey...where else are you going to get away with that? I can hear a pin drop from 372 yards away...I have a 35 car garage filled with Ferraris I had repainted with a slightly fruitier red...that's right...I could go on... |
here's another easy 1st move from junk to pretty decent sound, $600. pair https://www.crutchfield.com/p_107RTIA7C/Polk-Audio-RTi-A7-Cherry.html like the others, add self powered subs if bass hungry. some Martin Logans, $1,400. pair. https://www.audioadvice.com/martin-logan-motion-40-floorstanding-front-speakers+color-White good name brands have to compete, they need to have low priced offerings. |
another high end name, wharfedale, $540. pair https://www.crutchfield.com/p_336D230WN/Wharfedale-Diamond-230-Walnut-Pearl.html?cc=07 no ports, my preference, the polks listed above have front ports, the only direction I support all the affordable Klipsch have rear ports, a no-no for me. klipsch, $520. pair https://www.crutchfield.com/p_714R620F/Klipsch-Reference-R-620F.html IOW, many high end companies offer an easy way in. |
The average markup is 10x to drivers. It is much higher if drivers are made in house (Focal, B&W, Monitor Audio), and depending on the brand (thinking of Gamut and Wilson). I think the $370 is per speaker. So, at most, the driver cost is $37 / speaker. Make of that what you will, but maybe this is the year you build a pair of DIY speakers??? Best, E |
you might think cheapo versions of parts, but, they really don't want to risk their name, they simpy need to stay in the game, make the profits on the real high end stuff. read the detailed description of the parts, drivers, crossover, custom designed magnets ..... of this Elac offering, $550. pair https://www.crutchfield.com/p_970DF62/ELAC-Debut-2-0-F6-2.html |
Focal, made and shipped from France, $999. pair https://www.crutchfield.com/p_091C716B/Focal-Chorus-716-Black.html front port, add a stereo pair of subs, ought to be VERY good. Efficient enough to use moderately low power tube amps, 20-50 wpc. If I got the subs, I might try stuffing the front port, can't hurt to try. You want more bass but not mud. |
Not too long ago we had our music club meetup at one of our member's daughter's house. The system we listened to was a Yamaha receiver with a pair of "Andrew Jones designed" Pioneer SP-FS52 speakers. They weren't pretty, and they didn't come close to the sound quality of any of the speakers I own, but they were very listenable and surprisingly good at their price point ($129 each, they have since gone up to $149 if you can find them). I was actually quite surprised how good they sounded, given their price point. The title of the original post is a quote of a pile of marketing stuff and that kind of hyperbole shouldn't be taken seriously. I think it's great that there are affordable products out there for beginners or casual listeners. Up until a few years ago, my main interest was home theater and I've had some pretty cheap speakers from BIC, Sony, etc. that sounded pretty good to me at the time. I have a different point of reference now and a more critical ear, so I would not be satisfied with those, but I don't see a need to bash affordable speakers or those that listen to them. |
"What's an example of a "Low Mass" amp?" http://tuneland.forumotion.com/t509-my-low-mass-tunable-setup |
I live in Middle Mass outside of Boston so I'm going to stick with my "normal" Mass gear as it sounds great, and as an experienced professional live sound production and recording technician, successful musician, and decades long audio geek with "golden ears," or actually flesh colored ears now that I think about it, I reject tweaks that I think are silly or esthetically repellant as well as any person claiming "you can't hear esoteric faith based audio enhancement because you're not sophisticated enough and your system is clearly mid-fi," as those claiming that sort of thing are simply insecure, pretentious, and generally creepy. |
Maybe we shouldn't be surprise. Think of the speakers in the OP post like a Toyota Camry - perfectly fine at around 30K. Then there are the supercars (or super cars) that are around 300K. I don't think the supercars are 10X better than the Toyotoa Camry, but then if I were able to afford the Ferrari, the reason why I paid 300K for the Ferrari because I thought it's probably 100X better than the Camry. |
I understand,these are not world class speakers by any stretch of imagination. I have no problem with someone having the means to drop $200K on a pair of speakers. There is also a place for people that don't have the means to have some choices. At this price point they are surely entry level. No doubt. However some folks will ultimately upgrade,And hopefully keep this hobby alive. Am I wrong in thinking this way? |
I very much agree with big_greg when he says, "quote of a pile of marketing stuff and that kind of hyperbole shouldn't be taken seriously". I'm not passing judgement on Paradigm or these speakers. I've never heard them and even if I had, your tastes are different than mine. IMHO, all the marketing hype about this special kind of tweeter, that special woofer made of unobtainium, etc. That's all very nice but the proof is in the pudding, as the saying goes. Decades ago i heard some speakers I thought were fantastic. Nothing special about the materials as I recall, just two way speakers with paper cones. I've heard speakers with Heil air motion tweeters. They were ok. I've heard speakers with polypropylene cones. Also just OK. The gimmicks didn't make the speaker sound fantastic. Careful engineering and attention to detail along with the desire and ability to make an excellent speaker are what's most important, IMO. I also am skeptical of a review of any equipment on a site that sells that equipment. Also, don't rely on audio publications for reviews. They, too, have their biases. Their reviews sell equipment. The equipment reviewed is also being advertised in their pages by the manufacturers. These magazines are not public services. Advertisers keep then in business and the magazine is out to make a profit and as much as possible. There is ONE source you CAN trust: your own ears. Get thee to a local audio store and listen for yourself, or order speakers from a web site that has a generous return policy. |
They’re likely better sounding than the "white van" speakers being sold right now in the Costco parking lot. I would like a pair if there were a vinyl faux veneer finish, for the office system. Edit-the price isn’t for the pair, only 1. Average price for a value, speaker. $7-800 will buy decent speakers. Many choices This review makes them appear decent for the pricehttps://hometheaterreview.com/paradigm-monitor-se-6000f-floorstanding-speakers-reviewed/ I’d get a pair of equal price Focals. |