Not sure if your only thinking new stuff or used equipment but you can get your mits on a pretty nice used DAC for that price point here on Audiogon.
For the price point mentioned I would keep an eye out for some of these offerings:
1. Benchmark DAC1 or DAC2
2. Ayre QB9
3. NAD m51
4. Bel Canto DAC3
I’ve owned each one I’ve listed in the past and they are all great options IMO
|
|
I second the RME. I've had it for over a year.
|
MHDT Orchid. Under budget! |
I love my Orchid also. I think it's better than my Mytek Liberty and close to my Auralic Vega. It's very detailed and had an easy to listen to "analog" like sound. |
|
The Ayre Codex DAC I think it runs for bout $1700.
Happy Listening. |
|
Gustard DAC X26. One of the best-tested DACs money can buy and right in that price range.
|
I bought the Schiit Gungnir multibit a couple months ago and I'm quite please with it. very detailed and musical DAC. I like how the music flows from it. very detailed, smooth with good extension both top and bottom. I don't find it overly warm sounding though, and i'm running SET tubes just even top to bottom. one thing I do notice I listen to digital music way more then ever before. |
@big_greg the idea of a tube DAC is intriguing! |
Audio Mirror Tubadour III tube DAC for $1500. Check out the reviews. I have the recently released Statement version. I’m am very happy with it.
|
|
Andrew, it's an r2r DAC with a tube buffer. |
I’ll 2nd the endorsement of the Schiit Gungnir multibit DAC. I’ve owned one for close to a year and have found it to be very enjoyable. It provides a lot detail without sounding overly analytical.
|
+another for Ayre Acoustics. A pre-owned QB-9 or Codex will provide neutral sound reproduction and a quiet background with excellent dynamics and detail, but without any edginess. And Ayre’s support and upgrade policies are excellent. My QB-9 DSD has provided 5 years of trouble free and engaging listening.
|
the chord qute hd (the most beutiful audio component )and more advanced versions are around 600-800$
you can use the the rest to swap all the freya tubes to a proper nos quad of ge's
|
Audio-GD R8 Ladder DAC with out a doubt.
I've heard two systems a few days ago, both much more expensive than mine and both with +20k DACs and I prefered my under 20k system over those +120k systems.
Of course its not just the DAC, but if you have the right components and you properly set them, you can have a system that can compete with multi thousand dollars ones.
But the R8 was up to the task. Of course I feed it with a very good signal, the SOtM SMS-200 Ultra Neo vía the Gustard U16 with I2S signal, much better than just USB.
You wont have a very very good sounding system until you take care of multiple issues like AC power, vibration control, the digital signal, speaker location, listening position, a pair of well located and integrated subs, room accoustics, etc |
@plga I’ll look into that, it’s my bedroom system so I’m going to be feeding it with a blusound node 2i for now. I have all the tweaks (power, acoustics, subs, noise harvesters, fuses, etc) on my main system. |
You are far better off just waiting a bit long and buy the New Lampizator Amber 3
it is by far the best dac under 5-6$ k out there for $2750 they took a lot of trickle down technology from their top flag ship model pacific.
the Audio mirror trubidor is pretty decent not not in the same class and build quality though ,seeing that $25cheap Chinese transformer ,not good as well as switches
and they refuse to upgradeeven if you pay for it. But the New Lampizater, and when you can put in the best tubes and fuse you have a Huge giant killer ,I sold ps Audio best dac
and which has great leading edge detail but not as involving having 3 tubes including A vacuum tube rectifier section is very 3 dimentional.
and comes with Millflex Copper caps stock and respectable tubes 2 are NOS American tubes. |
|
|
Andrew,
Dont discount the Lotus5 Dac, bested my Prism Orpheus, no slouch. Also can double as a pre. Check tone for review. |
The Ayre Codex, at $1800 new, is the most musical I've heard under $5k!
It transformed my system from very good hifi, to true audiophile grade. I can't recommend it highly enough. Of course their QX-8 is better at nearly $6k, but the Codex is similar in musical satisfaction. There is a richness and flow to the music which I usually only associate with vinyl. |
Oppo 205, DSD/MQA/PCM DAC $1299 MSRP.
|
@andrewkelley what DAC do you have in your main system? You may be surprised by the Audio-gd R8.
By the way, I have 3 PS Audio Noise Harvesters. The affect the sound very very little, if its not placebo effect. I dont recomend them. |
|
@piga so I had this humming sound in one of my speakers and I tried everything to get noise out of my line including the PS audio Noise harvester of which I have 3, they were blinking like crazy . Anyway time went by and I kept trying one more things to get this noise out of my system then one day when I was cleaning out the garage I unplugged one of those bug zapper lights I went back inside to get something to drink and boom Immediately noticed the noise was gone. I went and looked at my noise harvesters and they had stopped blinking. The bug zapper was putting DC noise on the line. I don’t know if they remove noise but I know they can tell you how crummy your electricity is .
My main system has a Simaudio Moon 280d |
Another vote for Audio Mirror Tubadour.
|
@andrewkelley
Have you compared the Simaudio Moon 280D with any good 1.5k DAC?
I believe a good dedicated DAC with a good source should sound better. If not, the Simaudio Moon 280D is a giant killer as, for the price, its a streamer and a DAC.
If not, may be you should think about upgrading your main system with a better streamer + DAC and keep the Simaudio Moon 280D in your second system. It would cost a little more, but you could get better sound in your main system, as I guess could be better. Of course, you would have to change the Bluesound Note for a better sounding bridge like the SOtM SMS-200 Ultra Neo or the cheaper Sonore Ultrarendu.
I prefered my SOtM SMS-200 Ultra Neo + Gustard U16 USB Converter + Audio-gd R8 Ladder DAC combo (about 3.5k total) against a +20k Mark Levinson streamer and DAC and also vs a +20K T+A DAC.
Just an opinion. |
I have just done exactly what you are thinking. I had bought a Chord 2qute Dac which was too bright in my system, I have swapped this out for an Exposure Dac which has a very organic analogue sound could not be happier. It is a brand which is often over looked. |
I really like my audio mirror tubadour lll, it's very musical. Can't have it all at $1500 but it's certainly not going to be shamed by a more expensive unit. |
I think that I’m just now finding out that the node 2i will ONLY OUTPUT 24/96 over coax! What kind of crap is that? The whole reason I bought the thing is for a streamer, and to use and external DAC with it. Urgggghhh |
I wouldn't care much about coax output and sample rates.
For me, another issues play a MUCH bigger role on sound quality and music engagement. To mention a few: gear quality and synergy, AC conditioning, accoustic treatment, location of speakers and listening position, recording quality, digital signal quality, etc.
Some called experts recomend streamer, or network bridges, with a good and clean USB output and then, if you have a DAC with I2S input, a USB to I2S converter.
I can't agree with them more. Thats why I've got the SOtM SMS-200 Ultra Neo and the Gustard U16, both being VERY good upgrades for my DAC. Its right to mention that the U16 has troubles with some gear and some sample rates, but once you get working, it sounds superb.
If you can, I would follow that way. I know some will say keep it simple, but I believe that the quality of the digital signal you feed to your DAC is FAR more important than sample rates and maybe as important as your DAC quality.
Im pretty sure, eventhough I cannot demostrarte it, that my streamer+converter+DAC chain, wich costs around 3.5k, can equal, if not better, almost any +10k DAC fed by a USB signal from a computer.
I already heard two +20k DACs that, in my opinion, didn't sound according to their price level. One of them was a streamer with DAC incorporated and the other one was fed by a computer with Roon. Im sure, at least on the last one, that the USB signal from the computer was a big parte of the shortcomings in sound.
|
@plga ok, so I see that the SOtM sms-200 is on sale on their website for $450. I can buy that and use the node 2i in my garage system/theatre. It has usb out. The schiit Gungnir DAC has usb in. Something they have called generation 5 usb that apparently it’s quite nice. So maybe I’ll go that route.
Please tell me me about the converter your using and what it does. |
Hello andrew
The SMS-200 you mentioned in offer is the regular one. The SMS-200 Ultra Neo is the one I have and I understand it's considerably better (and more expensive) than the one you are talking about.
If you want to keep costs limited, may be you could try the Sonore Ultrarendu that costs about $400 less than the SMS-200 Ultra Neo and I understand it has a similar sound quality.
If you live in the US, may be Sonore can offer you a trial period.
You will have to consider a Linear Power Supply for any of them. I would recomend a cheap chinese one with Talema transformers, about $70 on ebay.
The Gustard U16 converts the USB signal into I2S (HDMI cable). In most DACs with I2S input, this option sounds better than USB. There are several brands of converters, Singxer has some good ones, being the SU-6 their flagship, but costing about the double than the one I have, the Gustard U16. Some people on head-fi forum say the Singxer SU-6 has no operational problems like the Gustard, but the latter sounds better. In my system, the Gustard improves the sound noticeably, making it more organic, dynamic and detailed.
|
@andrewkelly,
If you want just a streamer and you don’t mind a bit of diy,
rasberry pi, allo digione sig, or usb sig, and the allo Shanti power supply.
that with the RME ADI-1 DAC blew away my Bluesound node2 and Bifrost multibit.
|
I just heard from bluesound support that the node2i will pass whatever signal and bitrate comes to it via tidal or Roon or whatever along to my DAC. The only exception is MQA which will only be 24/96. See below: “
Tony W. - Product Support Manager (Bluesound)
Oct 2, 4:59 PM EDT Hi Andrew
When using digital outs on the NODE, with MQA we do have to handle some processing but that is only for MQA. With all other formats, you bypass the onboard DAC altogether. The output will be whatever the original file was encoded at.
I hope that helps explain it,
Tony
|
Andrew
If Im not mistaken, you have a Sim Audio Streamer and DAC all in one, a Bluesound Node streamer and a Schiit Gungnir DAC, am I correct?
If so, can you stream with the Bluesound to the Sim Audio, using the latter only as a DAC? If you can, that would give you the chance to compare the Sim Audio as a streamer vs the Bluesound and as DAC vs the Gungnir. It would help to look for the weakest link of the chain and to see if the Sim Audio is as good as you think.
On the other hand, Hans Beekhuyzen has a YouTube channel and he has tried the original SOtM SMS-200, then the Ultra and Ultra Neo versions. He also has reviewed A LOT of others streamers/bridges, to mention a few: the Node, the Auralic aries mini, the Rasberry Pie, etc.
He answers questions vía YouTube, on the coments side of every video. He is very profesional and I guess you could ask him wich streamer/bridges he recomends considering your budget and needs.
Dont forget that many of the products we have mentioned here are bridges, meaning you will need a computer to run them. They will send the signal to the DAC, but you have to control them with a computer using Roon, Audinirvana, or another software. |
I insist, get the best combination of digital gear you can pay and forget about sample rates, MQA, etc. At least for at the begining.
For me the correct gear is MUCH more important. A good digital chain playing PCM 44.1 will sound MUCH better than a mediocre one playing hi-res.
For instance, in my case, replacing the WiFi connection with a 10 bucks Cat8 Ethernet cable plus a 20 bucks used Cisco Ethernet Switch (a Gigabit one) had more impact in sound than changing sample rates and formats. |
+1 for the Schiit Gungnir Multibit |
Another vote for the Benchmark Dac3. I might even know of one going up for sale soon.
|
I have the NAD M51 in my system and it sounds beautiful, very smooth. I would say the only thing I can fault with it is that is does not do MQA. It's not that it matters much but I feel NAD should be able to add the feature via firmware update since all of the newer dacs from the seem to support MQA. Tidal Masters streams do however sound terrific anyway. I also use mine as a preamp connected directly to a NAD C272 power amp. Works great. The volume control is done via 35 bit DSP in a way that you can lower the volume to -66db (almost inaudiable) before truncating the signal. Not selling mine anytime soon. |
You could save yourself $1100 and try the Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 Digital. It is indeed competitive with many of the others mentioned. Pro-Ject knows what they're doing when it comes to digital, more so than their analog ventures. Many online dealers (including Amazon) offer this unit with a satisfaction guarantee and it'd be very inexpensive to ship, thus nothing to lose in trying one. |
Hello if you can save for $2750 this Great new Lampizator dac is insanely good just read the review.for me to sell my very good $6k pc audio dac for Amber-3 is saying a lot.with a Money back audition ,after 24 hr warm up ,not going back ,and if you wanted to upgrade to upper a Lampi dac ,you can sell it with a 5 yr transferrable warranty ,great resale value ,check out the review. Very true to form . http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/1019/LampizatOr_Amber_III_DAC_Review.htm |
Another vote for the RME ADI-2 DAC. It even spend some time as my stand alone dac for my 2 channel setup and now sits on desk as part of that near field/headphone listening station. |
Thanks for everyone’s opinions! I scored a brand new schiit Gungnir Multibit from a fellow A’goner for $850. Too good a deal to pass. I’m using a Black Cat Cables silverstar 75ohm BNC to connect the node2i to the Multibit. It sounds great. |
Nice deal!
I am late to the thread, but I really love my MHDT Labs Orchid as well. Definitely worth checking out for anyone reading the thread later. I am typically a value shopper and look for great used deals, but at $1100, I purchased it new from LTA and they even throw in a different tube to roll. |
Try Mojo Mystique V2plus Dac
It is an R2R Ladder Dac.
|
Hello, plga,
I've been a 'gon member for many years, and selectively read these weekly Discussion posts, if I find them pertinent to my own 2-ch system. Never before have I found as much useable information to narrow my search for a new piece of gear, as I have here.
This is the first occasion for me posting a response, and it's with deep gratitude that I thank you for the outstanding information you provided here. I especially liked your positive comment re. PCM 44.1 (NOS), and have moved that factor to the top of my "criteria list", in the search for a new DAC.
I also must thank Andrew Kelley for launching this discussion, which has enabled me, far more than the hours of routine 'net searching through reviews, etc., to advance much closer to selecting a new DAC for my system.
I currently have the OPPO UDP-205, which uses dual ESS ES90238PRO Sabre 32-bit/8 ch. dacs, as well as a Cambridge Audio 851D, which uses dual Analog Devices AD1955 24-bit dacs. Both of these units are 2+ years old, and have, to my ears, similar sonic characteristics, both erring slightly, but sufficiently, to the bright side, to encourage me to sustain the search for an upgrade.
Based solely on published product reviews, I had decided on the Kitshune Spring 2 (new model), Level 2 ($2000), but am now very much intrigued by the comments here for the Lampizator Amber A, and the Ayre Codex.
Over time, as I've needed to sensibly compare DACs, I've found it necessary to determine the specific DAC chips embedded in a DAC component. So, rather than refer to a DAC, for example, as a Sim Audio Moon 280D, I would want to know the specific chip it uses.
I wonder if others here use the same approach.
I should add that I also have great respect for the "implementation" contribution to the overall SQ of a product (circuitry design, power supplies, use of discreet components, component quality, etc.). This, however, is far more difficult to assess, unless the mfr. is very forthcoming in publishing that level of detail.
Again, thanks to all the contributors here.
|
