GPowered: I upgraded to the Mundorf Silver in Oil Caps for the 'Dragons this week and the improvement was not small nor subtle. It was a huge upgrade even before any cap breakin. I have a Mundorf Resistor to install also but I am going to have Eric make the new Crossover for me so I have not added that in yet. For anyone wanted a major upgrade, this is it and right now the caps are on sale at Parts Connection. The vocals have more body, more three dimensionally, and are silky smoothe. Overall tone, timbre, and balance are much improved. It is about $500-600 to upgrade (and that's the sale price), but it is a major improvement and improves on an already great speaker. My next step is to add much needed bass traps to my living room as I still get boominess from the speakers and I have several bass nodes, but I am now quite content with the speakers. I am running them now with a two watt 45 amp from Don Allen (yes two watts) and the imaging, soundstage,clarity, and detail and pure musical enjoyment level are all amazingly high. I also have a Decware Tori mk III that is a fantastic match also but the bass from it overwhelms my room at the moment so I am mostly using the two watt 45 and it plays well up to 75 dB or so at my listening position. |
Morganc- thanks for the update! How difficult was it to install the caps and what changes are required in the xover for this new resistor? I have to admit I am quite happy with this Crown amp in my system now. I also rearranged my room and was able to spread the speakers 9ft apart as well as sitting 9ft away. This made a gigantic difference, especially in the tone and mid bass/bass of the speaker. Much more defined now. It is amazing what placement can do. These speakers definitely need some room to do their best. Prior, I had been sitting about 7.5 ft away from them. A little too close. |
Hi GPowered: It is quite easy to change the caps, though the challenge is that the Mundorfs alone are each as large as the entire previous crossover,and therefore not so easy to install using the old crossover board. The changes I made were simply upgrades to the parts using the exact same specs. Basically, I hacked out the old caps and just soldered in the new ones in a temporary quick fix situation, meaning it wasn't pretty and I was glad it didn't short out! Then upon hearing how nice everything was sounding, I asked Eric if he would kindly build me a new crossover using the new caps and resistors and of course he agreed to do so for a nominal fee. So now he has them and will send them back to me on a new board which then will require me to just re wire it. I'm far from a DIY guy, but it should not take more than a half hour to complete and well worth it. As for the placement, yes the Dragons love space in my room. I have them about 5 feet from the rear wall and about 9-10 feet apart and I sit about 10-11 feet back. I found a huge improvement when I took out the measuring tape and laser and positioned them with perfect symmetry. The imaging and soundstage is really spectacular now with the amp that I am using. Next step for me is a pair of bass traps and to take some measurements to even out the bass as my room is a bit fussy. |
Wow, those Mundorfs are quite quite pricey! Any thoughts about mixing caps? I could probably afford the smaller Mundorf caps, but what if I went for a cheaper option on the larger caps? I don't have experience with different sounds of different capacitors and would like the best I can get, but not sure I can spring for the large Mundorfs. Any idea what combinations might work best, or what I would be sacrificing by not going all-Mundorf? |
The Zu Omen Def is over three times as expensive as the Tekton Lore. Wouldn't it make more sense to compare the Tekton Lore vs. Zu Omen Standard, and the Tekton Pendragon vs. Zu Omen Def? That way you are comparing speakers at approximately the same price points and the latter both have dual full-range drivers. |
You could mix caps for sure but who knows the outcome? You definitely do not want to change the cap values as that would change the crossover point. A better compromise IMO would be the regular Mundorf Supreme at a fraction of the cost and probably 85% of the improvement. However, I would guess that any decent cap would be an upgrade as the ones that come stock are not that high of quality and chosen for a given price point. A very important point to keep in mind with this upgrade is that a 10% improvement for $200-600 dollars for the Mundorfs or SIO is much greater than any amp or DAC or Pre-amp change would produce. |
Another great review of the Lore-S by Frank Alles of Stereo Times http://www.stereotimes.com/speak050112.shtml |
The Tektons sound like an excellent value and a great option in the right room. Stereophile did a review of some larger Zus that I found interesting. They liked the sound and performance but the measurements were found somewhat lacking. That does not surprise me I suppose. I cannot conceive how a single full range conventional driver can deliver smooth response top to bottom. I can imagine how the lack of crossover and coherency theough most of the audible spectrum could make that a moot point for many though. |
Well, I had a graduation party last weekend at my house for a friend, and his 3 year old saw some shiny gold bits on my speakers. Guess what happened next... ;) So, one of the audax tweeters has some pretty sizeable dimples in it now. Luckily I don't think the voicecoil was damaged. It still works, and I've consulted Eric about how to proceed. I guess I can partially disassembled it without too much trouble and try to push the dome back into shape from the reverse side, then reassemble and reinstall. I'm gonna give it a go. If that doesn't work well, replacement diaphragm and voice coil should only cost $30-40 instead of $110 for replacing the entire driver. In the meantime, it's been interesting listening to it this way. It's clear the dispersion pattern is messed up, and the two speakers have a little different frequency response. However, it doesn't sound as bad as I would have thought. Having the eminence driver go up as high as it does, it really does carry the majority of the information, and the midrange is still fully intact. |
I was able to take apart the driver according to Eric's instructions and push out the dents in the dome. It's not perfect, but pretty close. Driver's back in place and working well at this point. I will probably want to replace the diaphragm and voice coil at some point, but not vital at this point. |
A great trail here at Audiogon! A lot of very interesting remarks. What I was looking for was any feedback as far as classical music goes as applicable to Lore speakers, most of the posts that I went through (and I did look at 95 %) were talking about rock, jazz... Not much on the classical side. I mostly listen to classical, only analog rig. I have pretty small room 11x14x8, speakers along the long side, not much flexibility,CJ MV60SE amp. Would appreciate to hear any feedback as far as listening to the classical music goes. Thank you |
Avs9, I listen to about 50/50 Jazz/Classical, and was a bit worried myself how the Lores would handle Classical, mostly due to reports that they lack resolution compared to higher end speakers. Well, my reservations proved unfounded when the Lores came. First of all, they are plenty resolving enough for Classical. I can't say I've heard the best of the best when it comes to speakers, but the highest-end I've heard are B&W 802 diamonds, which are known for being highly resolving. Sure, they're more resolving than the Lores, but not by much. And when you figure they cost 15x as much, you'd expect them to be more resolving. The trade off for that little bit of resolution, though, is incredible sonic immersion. For me, listening to the B&W's is like watching 40fps video on an ultra hi-def t.v. It's sharply detailed, but you're constantly aware that you're watching an image on a screen; listening to the B&W's, I 'm always aware that I'm listening to a recording. With the Lores, however, my system disappears. This isn't just because they image well, which they do, but also because they nail the tone and timing of the instruments. They present the music very cohesively, like a live performance. It's like being on stage with the musicians, especially with chamber music. As for orchestral music, if your amp is powerful enough, the Lore's will wash a symphony over you like you're at the concert hall. You get the rumble of the low frequencies, the airiness of the highs, and the big round tones and resonating thwacks of kettle drums and tympani. And the most impressive part is how well the Lores separate the sections of the orchestra, while still maintaining the timing and cohesiveness of the performance. I've heard many a lesser speaker turn orchestral music into a muddy, distorted mess. You might not have the same experience as me, but I'd give them a shot before spending more money. Good luck, Alex |
Trailsend - it would appear that the only thing that the Emo 8.3a and Lore have in common is price. You may want to compare other single or full range driver speakers to the Lore. The Emo is a conventional speaker and will undoubtably sound 100% different. May be a great speaker thoough, just not apples to apples. |
Gpowered- Thanks for your comment. Actually I already own a pair of Lores, but am always looking to hear how they might compare to other speakers. Being from a small town my options for auditioning speakers is very limited. So when I bought my Lores it was based solely on reviews. I think you are right in that comparing the Lores to the Emotivas is not comparing apples to apples. Even though I have not had a chance to listen to the Emotivas I did get a chance to listen the Zu Omens, which everybody seems to compare the Lores to. Here are my thoughts about the Omens if you or anyone else is interested. I found Omens to be a good speaker. Considering various listening preferences they maybe just what some are looking for, unfortunately this was not the case for me. I found the midrange frequencies on the Omens to be very much forward as opposed to the Lores, almost to the point of being overwhelming. I found there was a noticeable difference in bass response. The Lores had more of it, which was well defined delivering what I call a punch as opposed to the Omens. I bought the Lores with this in mind and have not been disappointed. Again others may find a less defined bass more appealing, I do not. My only criticism of the Lores is that the high end can be a bit more accentuated than I like. However, this does vary from recording to recording. That being said it probably does not come as much of a surprise but I much prefer the Lores. |
Lore versus Lore-S? Would anybody say they prefer Lore over Lore-S or vice versa? Would be very much interested to hear an opinion. I spoke with Eric and I was given to understand that Lore will have deeper feeling in the lower range just due to the driver size. Is this something that the owners of these especially if someone had a chance to compare will share? Thank you |
I made a number of comments comparing the Lore-S to the Lore. Look page a few pages and you'll find those posts. Short version: I ended up keeping the Lore instead of upgrading to Lore-S. I liked the better dynamics of the Lore, although the Lore-S had better depth of soundstage and microdynamic details, and was also a bit warmer and smoother sound. I could see people preferring it over the Lore, but I really think realistic dynamics are more important than those other areas, so kept the Lore and am working on other areas of my system to close the gap in other areas. I'm close to finishing some DIY Hypex Ncore monoblocks - probably will have those running by this weekend. I'm also interested in experimenting as others have with upgraded capacitors in the Lore crossovers. |
I got the NCore modules installed in a chassis and running this week. They are very smooth, detailed, great soundstage depth, imaging, tone, pretty much everything. They are not the most dynamic, but a good match to the Lore in this regard, as I have tried some punchy amps with them that we're too much. I'm just starting to get used to the sound of these amps, but they are definitely special. If you haven't heard of them, I would check them out. |
I'm in Sacramento, Ca., and would like to listen to the Lores. I have the single-ended amp bug, and so I am looking for a more sensitive speaker that my stalwart Vienna Acoustic Mozarts, which are 88-90 db, depending on who you believe. I tend to think the stereophile 88 db measurement is correct, and that doesn't work with the 8 watts I have right now. I have two homemade subs, so I'm not worried about the bottom end very much. I spent a chunk of my weekend reading this thread, and everthing else I could find on Tekton's products, but there is no substitute for listening. Very entertaining thread, btw, thanks! Goraman, Morganic, Sionlim? |
Morgan, I couldn't contact you through Audiocircles. When I click your name over there, it gives me a message that says "Many apologies, but you can't just view any profile." Are you on diyaudio? They allow private messages there. To change the subject, what got me started in this new direction, that is, SET and a speaker to go with it is when I heard the Atma-sphere M-60 OTL's at Deete's Audio showroom in Sacramento. They sounded amazing with the Audio Note speakers (and others too). Alas, out of my price range, and the heat and tube issues (16 tubes, plus the driver tubes) made them even less appealing here in Sacramento. Still, I had to go back to tubeville after several years in solid state land. I listened to a friends HES two ways, and they sounded excellent with a SET amp. I didn't like the TC-90 inverted dome kevlar tweeter he used,though, so now I am checking out HES's. The Audio Notes sounded great tonally, and they had impact and bass set up in the corners for bass reinforcement, but the sound stage was...long and thin, and they seem overpriced. |
This is fascinating. Thanks for all this info. I'm a bit perplexed myself, as I've just bought an Eastern Electric minimax integrated and I need some speakers. Small room but I don't want bookshelf speakers. Tekton and Zu keep popping up as the go-to for small wattage amps. They both seem to have flavors. I keep hearing about "too much bass" on the Tekton's, and "flat mid range" on the Zu's. Are there any other options out there, under $999? This is for a second system so I want to keep the investment low. |
Not sure where you hear of "flat midrange" on the Zus. I have both the Zu Omen Defs and the Tekton Pendragons, and I much prefer the midrange on the Omen Defs. Granted I have not heard the Omens or Lores, but especially with the Zus, the Omens use the same drivers as the Omen Defs. Both are excellent companies, and Zu offers a 60 day home trial. Every one has different tastes, so take advantage of the home audition and try a pair for yourself. There is nothing like having the speakers in your own house, with your own system, hearing with your own ears! |
I just read through this thread and wanted to thank everyone for an excellent discussion. One question I have, though, which hasn't been directly addressed, is whether anyone has personal experience with both the Zu Omen and the Tekton M-Lore? I realize the more appropriate comparison is between the Omen and Lore, but I prefer the smaller stature of the Omen and M-Lore. The write-up at Home Theater Review suggests that the M-Lore sounds better, but that review doesn't contain enough detail to get a real sense of the differences. I would appreciate any feedback you all have. And if no one has done a comparison of these two speakers, I might just have to test them both myself. |
I own the Tekton Lore's and I also find the tweeter to be too hot. I run them with tubes and my wife and audiophile friend who listened to them in his own listening space agreed. I'm working on adding a resistor to bring the tweeter response down by 2 db. I may also do what Goraman did and replace the capacitor's. I've had good success in the past doing cap upgrades. All in all good speakers, but could use some tweaking to make them even better. |
Since it seems that no one has any thoughts on the Zu Omen versus the Tekton M-Lore, I've taken the plunge and purchased a set of Omens because of the favorable return policy. I'll initially be comparing them to my extant speakers as they break-in, but I'll likely order a pair of M-Lores in the near future to compare head-to-head with the Omens. I'll post my thoughts, should anyone be interested. |
Chad329 I would look into a zobel on the main driver before looking at the tweeter. I thought the same as you that it was the top end that was hot but it wasn't. A simple zobel installed on the main drivers terminals has made all the difference. Now they are a lot more even handed across the range without loosing any of the good stuff. |
Floose It's only a cap and a resistor in series. I bought these lore's of Rocky500 and if you look back in this thread you will see when he did the zobel. I had a listen before and after. Let's put it this way, I bought them off him the second time. I liked them the first time but loved them the second. At the end of the day though there are so many variables in everyone's setups that it's just a Tweeker that some may like. |
