I have spent more on cables over the last ten years than I am ever willing to cop too.
Let's just say I wish I had all that money back.
The cables I have now are not a cheap date but not $3,300 for a meter ether.But sounded 99.9% like them.In fact it was nearly impossible with most recordings to tell the two apart A B testing on an Audio Note U.K.single ended rig.
So I'm not eager to buy something I will more than likely
chuck in one of my pile o audio plastic bins.
No disrespect,I just don't feel the need to resurface an all ready smooth road.I can say I like solid core Silver or copper over stranded anything with only one exception.
I am using the same cables as Stevie Nicks and Pat Boon.
There doing just fine with the Lores.
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Goraman: thanks for posting your thoughts and experience! I'm quite interested as I inquired with Eric about upgrading my Pendragons to better caps before shipment. However, I decided to delay my gratification a bit so to speak so that I can later appreciate the improvement:).
Would you mind sharing a few things: which caps did you like the best and what size are they? How do you change out the resistors in the crossover?
And which cables are you using btw?
Thanks for the 411.
GPowered: which cables are you using? |
Morganc,
Keep in mind it is never a good Idea to use all the same manufacture capacitors in the same crossover.A common mistake.
More over it becomes a bigger problem yet when you run the same capacitors in parallel or in series as each cap make and modle has it's own sonic signature. Some caps are very detailed and etched some caps are just plain smooth,some may lack bass or be slightly rolled off at the top.Put any two of the same together and everything both good and bad can be exaggerated.The capacetor list for the Lores are Clarity Cap ESA, Obbligato Gold and Ansar SPA with silver leads.
All the caps I used are very large.You change out resisters just like caps I used Mills 12 watt but Mundorfs are great too if the values match.I also used Audison 14 AWG.Silver 214 and Sonus 214 from Italy for internal wire.
I hope this helps you,but if you are not sure what you are doing buy the parts you want and let Eric build your cross over using them as the man is good at laying things out nicely and his solder joints are well flowed and twisted together like hell man!
It is easier to copy his crossover on a new larger board from scratch than taking his apart in one piece and rebuilding it.And give break in some time,count the hours on a kitchen timer or stop watch. Best of luck!
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Which cables am I using?
Interconnects?
http://www.whitezombieaudio.com/lacacanyacables.html
The very cables in the picture are one of my several pairs. |
So, I know this is off the current topic, but the OP asks about the better speaker for SET's, yet I'm sure I read somewhere--either in this thread or one of the Lore reviews--that Eric recommends at least 20 watts for the Lores. Has anyone found that using low watt SET's with the Lore's provides poor results? There aren't many real-world affordable SET's that go above 8 watts or so.
Kinda bummed because I was looking forward to pairing the Lores with the new model Decware Zen Triode integrated that's supposed to come out this Spring.
Thanks for your thoughts. |
"GPowered: which cables are you using?"
I am using JW Audio Reference Interconnects and speaker cable. They are cryo treated and cooked solid core copper. Hit Zman up if you want to demo. They are simply the best I have ever heard and not expensive. The Ref IC's are new and prob not on his website yet, but compared to the Signature (i used it for 5 mths or so prior), there is absolutely no glare or etch and they are natural as I have experienced. Soundstage is wide and deep - nothing left to be desired. So before you dish out a bunch of cash, I strongly recommend you give them a try. I never would have though these would have been what they are. |
Not sure this'll work, but I've pulled a bit more together:
http://wp.me/p1ae3a-q9
another way to do it would be to jump directly to http://parttimeaudiophile.com |
Rischa,
I have used a 18 wpc SET amp with the Lore's with great results. The Lore is a very efficient speaker that works well with very low wattage.
Gpowered is using an 8 wpc SET with great results.
If you have a large room, maybe you'll need the extra wattage. But for a small to medeum sized room they work well with low wattage amps. |
HI Rischa,
I used the Lores as have others on this thread with a SET and had phenomenal results. I am now pairing the Pendragons with a Decware Tori and I prefer this combo to a SET in my very large room as I like to listen to more dynamic music.
If you are pairing the Lores in a Small to medium sized room and not listening to complex music, then a SET will work beautifully.
I found the pairing of the Lores with the Mini Torii to be phenomenal in my bedroom. The combination was absolutely out of this world in a small room with any type of music.
As you can see there is no right or wrong answer. They are set friendly but it depends on your preferences and set up more so than the imitation of the speaker.
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Not sure this'll work, but I've pulled a bit more together:
wp.me
another way to do it would be to jump directly to http://parttimeaudiophile.com Nice write-up. Thanks for spending some time with these. I especially enjoyed the amp comparisons. |
Appreciate the feedback. The writeup was the longest I've done yet. ;-)
They're really nice speakers, I will admit that freely, and I had a lot of fun reviewing them! |
Anyone in Portland, OR have the Tekton Lore's that I could listen to? |
Finsup: Thanks for the awesome write up. You got the first pair of 8ohm Dragons and I the second and I am still smiling. Your review was spot on with my experience. I love the fact that they are so musical with good and not so good recordings. I have mine paired with a Decware Torii and I highly recommend that you try the pairing if you can get your hands on one. Keep up the good work on the blog and we will keep reading:). |
Told you guys the Lores and Pens are for REAL!! ;0) |
Now, I wish I could lay claim to the review. Heck, I might even start a Blog or become a publisher but the credit goes to Socrates7. Now, if someone has an extra pair of Pendragons just lying around, I'll be happy to review them too. |
Whoops......late night wine typo! Thanks Socrates! |
Gpowered -- it's true, you've been a champion from day one. ;-) |
Gpowered, the best recommendation I have ever received in high-end audio. I know we have been talking mostly Lore and Pendragon, but the 4.5 monitors are just as outstanding as above in their category. There isn't a better desktop, small room monitor near its price ($329.00), and in MHO you'd have to spend many times that price to get all it's positive attributes. Long break-in, but well worth the wait. I'm extremely surprised by the quality of its bass given the speakers small size and overall just a great small speaker. Thanks Eric, thanks Gpowered for letting us know about these speakers. |
I wanted to see the difference the upgrade caps made.
So I reinstalled the stock tweeter caps in one speaker for the day.
I was able to do a direct A/B comparison.
The thing I noticed is the factory caps upper end seems to roll off by comparison.The caps themselves lack some of the finer details and the very top end seems less distinguishable and veiled.
The level of detail is still very very good but not as much sparkle and sizzle as with the upgrade caps.
The painful part of the upgrade is in the burn in,I have realized the Lores are so sensitive and unforgiving of a bright or green cap that what is a little annoying in a average sensitivity speaker is magnified several times over.
When the new caps settled down all is good and I hope to be buttoning everything up today.But if you do a cap change in the Lore use a timer and give them 200 to 400 hours to smooth out before panicking.And don't pick caps that have a reputation for being bright of overly etched.If you want an upgrade that is pretty safe I would try Daton,Solon but my premium choice would be Ansar out of the U.K. inexpensive very smooth and neutral,there 600v models are priced like Solon,there 400v with 99.99% silver leads are the SPA audiophile version and they are under $6.00 per cap. And they use tin not zinc to attach the leads to the foil.
Thay are a premium capacitor at a give away price and some one is selling them here in the U.S. on Ebay now.
In changing caps in the Lore be patient.
These speakers will show even the smallest change,both good and bad.
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All good guys. The credit goes to the Lord. I finally have peace and it is all about the music. Was listening to some Chris Tomlin tonight on the Pendragons. With just 10 watts in a mid sized room, the bass is tight with so much definition and weight... And the soundstage is expansive, much like a live performance. Awesome! And I am not in a honeymoon phase here.... |
Well, I wrapped things up today on the Lores.
On the rear wall where there was once fiberglass I used a product from DynaXorb a product of Dynamat. It claims to break up the rear reflection using technology from the stealth program and after looking at it and hearing the results I believe them.There is far clearer bass in Raising Sand (Sister Rosetta goes before us)
I used all mills resisters and they have brought far better detail to the mid-range, wind and string instruments have far more life and vibrato.
I mounted the whole X over on dampening board.
Everything is fantastic there is only one thing I am going to try.
Wool felt tweeter dampening rings.
I AM SO HAPPY with the Lores.
If Ferrari made speakers I'm sure they would sound like Lores! |
Congrats Goramen - well done. Now go enjoy the music!! |
is anyone here an international buyer? just wondering as I'm a little nervous about freight costs. I did ask Eric but didn't recieve a reply. I could call but time differences and it costs a bucketload...figured someone might be able to help out. |
I installed the wool tweeter deffractors today.
They did make a small difference,they seem to take the edge off and add a little air and texture/detail to the top end.
Well worth the $4.00 for the pair from Madisound.
I'm pretty much done now.
These speakers are the best I have ever owned.
I have been thinking about Pendragons but I do live in a condo and the Lores shake the walls as it is even at a watt or two.
I still may though... |
some pics of my M-Lore, im liking the satin white finish, cabinet quality is pretty good considering the price
got it hooked up to a decco2, as for the sound, i'll have to post some thoughts later on, after more listening
http://i44.tinypic.com/2yvq5xh.jpg
http://i42.tinypic.com/a32iv.jpg
http://i42.tinypic.com/2csgcxi.jpg |
Mrkoven,
I think they look really sharp in white. Very nice. |
It looks like the Tekton Pendragons are being spec'd with the 8 ohm driver on the website now. |
How do you think Pendragons would do in a 16X12 room?
I am having a hard time contemplating my self looking into 6 ring radiator tweeters.
The idea of it seems made for a larger space. |
Goraman: I have my Dragons in a larger space but I first heard them at a fellow Audiogoners condo where his room was about your size and they sounded great. They sound phenomenal in the near field just as the Lores do. I have to say that I am a bit biased though as I would love to hear/see your tweaks for the Dragons.
BTW: The the new 8 ohm Dragons in Black are pretty nice looking. The drivers are a blue grey and the look is much better than I thought it would be. |
Goramen - that space is going to be tight but possible if your room is treated, especially in the corners. You have to be sure that you can spread them nicely. Mine are about 7.5ft apart, and I sit the same distance away. But one thing is for sure: the Dragons are a completely different animal. I still get floored by how much I was missing prior. Other full range speakers I owned can't contend either. |
Sorry I've read a good bit of this thread but not all.
I get that the Lore's do loud and live really well and give up detail for "presence" but how are they for quiet and intimate - like late at night when the rest of the house is asleep? |
When you say how much you where missing,Do tell your discovery's.
Can you give specifics related to songs,for example when I upgraded the Lores symbols when being struck gave a deeper pitch with more shimmer and an extended ring in Bjork's Debut album."Come to me" is the best example but it was very noticeable through out the whole album.
This song led me to put the stock caps back in one speaker foe a couple of days for a head to head comparison.
So my findings are verified not on some distant memory but in real time.That is just one example of the out come of the total upgrade there are a few. |
Floosh, In my opinion the drivers and basic design of the Lores are very capable of the highest resolution as well as getting loud and sounding live.I often listen to mine late after my wife and son are sleeping.If your handy with a soldering iron the Lores have far more to offer if not send Eric the parts you want installed after placing your order.
You will not find a speaker that responds to even the most subtle changes more so than the Lore.
The Lores can be detailed and dynamic yet smooth as silk, and even stock as there price you will most likely be pretty happy.
The lores however will respond very noticeably to even small upgrades so future money spent is never a waste.
At this moment I am looking at Cardas binding posts. http://www.soniccraft.com/products/connections/bindingpost/cardas_ccgg.htm
I believe the Lores will like the 24k gold over solid copper
The posts on the Lores are very nice and are far better than I would ever expected for speakers at a grand.
But once more every upgrade I have made, The Lores have responded to it.
A good friend of mine came over to hear the Lores yesterday.
He is into stuff in the latest reviews of stereophile magazine for example his most current system is Audion golden dream monos,a Conductor Audio Valve pre and Zingalli speakers. He also has the biggest upgraded Walcotts and Sound Lab panels to mention just two of his setups.
When he came over and listened he was so impressed by the Lores it was the constant topic for more than a couple of hours as song after song was requested.We finally got to go for Mexican food as I was starving and when we got back the requests soon resumed.This was for me the ultimate review as he has been into the high end since the 60's and has never been far out of the loop.
One thing that was brought up is when the recording is forward presented the Lores are forward and when the recording is 10 rows back so are the Lores.I had not noticed this for my self.he listened at low volume, moderately high volume on axis off axis ect..
I was surprised at his interest in them to be honest because his stuff is so much more up the ladder economicly speaking.
His final comment was the only thing missing on these speakers is a flashy gold bage with a $20,000+ brand name! |
Do tell your discovery's. Can you give specifics:
Much more realistic dynamics and bass weight; extension far superior. For instance, a bass guitar and bass drum sounds crystal clear and defined, with great harmonic texture. You hear a low end in recordings that was non existant prior. The soundstage is also wider and more expansive. The highs? Both are excellent, but the Pendragon extends taller and wider with the triple tweeter array. The Lore is fantastic, but thre P'dragon sounds so close the the real thing it is quite scary. The Lore may produce equal or greater depth though, since it is single driver and the P'dragon needs more room (esp off the back wall) to create the same depth effect. The Pendragon is the last speaker I buy unless I run out of room for them. ;o) seriously they ran me out of gas.... it simply ended the seemingly endless quest of speaker turnover... TG |
I was looking into the Pendragons as a speaker for my home office/ den. It is starting to have room treatments and bass traps for a better sound. 25 x 15 small room
Speakers I was actually looking into the Sonus Faber Cremona M, as i already have a liuto and love the sound it produces.
VR 33, as it can be on the back wall-cant beat that! and also not so hi fi sounding-more of a club venue/live performance.
Paradigm S8v3.-going to hear them later. Proac 18 - tube lover for smaller rooms. outside contenders are legacy classic HD, Focal 836w and lawrece audio violins- never heard em but have high sensitivity as well.
I always try to follow the rule of thumb in audio.
Main source is CD/computer/ipod=Ayon CD 07.=2-3k, Amp is Ayon Spirit 3=4-5k, speakers Where the brunt usually is 4-10k. I have tried in the past year to use lower priced High Value speakers, but they always come up short. I am just afraid of pulling the trigger again on a speaker that is hyped up from advertisement money. Albeit tekton is as often spoken as a Kia.-not a big name
I am not a bass freak , tight and controlled is fine , lower registers probably not use to it.Ive tried 1.7 and it sounded really tweaky and missing anything in the lower registers unless driven. Golden Ear - NOPE not for me-moved my neighbors to hate me with its woolyness. Martin Logan source- not well implemented from the lows to highs. These speakers has to be on the top of anybody's list and made stereophiles recommended list in the 2-2.5k arena.
After reading all these glorious post of a $700 speaker, i am really intrigued at this particular brand. I would like to further know more about them from owners and not paid writers , which i now want to unsubscribe from stereophile. As i am learning that unless u have 50k to spend audio heaven is in your next life. |
I'd like to hear the P'dagons.
I gave some serious thought to how they might be balanced tonally speaking.
My guess is the line array of tweeters are of a slightly lower efficiency than the drivers the sum total of there output combined makes for the 98db. output over a larger radiating area much like my sound labs that offered 300 inches of tweeter per panel. Ring radiators in my experience Vifa's to be exact seem to be beammy but 2 X 3 would change the field of sonic radiation offering a far wider dispersion = Brilliant! a mid bass driver both over and under places the tweeter array in the center much like a extra large Tannoy dual concentric driver.I can only imagine with so much cabinet volume in a rear port they must offer layers of very extended bass.
A careful selection of resisters and capacitors in the crossover and it would be like being in the 1970's Memorex ad.
I would love to hear a pair...
Thanks, 4 your observations my mind is racing,but I am still breaking in the Lores and possibly getting them hand pinstriped for a 50's look.
If I get P Dragons it will not be for awhile.
I am really thinking hard though as a year passes fast. |
I'd like to hear the P'dagons.
I gave some serious thought to how they might be balanced tonally speaking.
My guess is the line array of tweeters are of a slightly lower efficiency than the drivers the sum total of there output combined makes for the 98db. output over a larger radiating area much like my sound labs that offered 300 inches of tweeter per panel. Ring radiators in my experience Vifa's to be exact seem to be beammy but 2 X 3 would change the field of sonic radiation offering a far wider dispersion = Brilliant! a mid bass driver both over and under places the tweeter array in the center much like a extra large Tannoy dual concentric driver.I can only imagine with so much cabinet volume in a rear port they must offer layers of very extended bass.
A careful selection of resisters and capacitors in the crossover and it would like being in the 1970's Memorex ad.
I would love to hear a pair... |
02-07-12: Sionlim
I was looking into the Pendragons as a speaker for my home office/ den."
"After reading all these glorious post of a $700 speaker, i am really intrigued at this particular brand."
Sion - Not sure I follow. The Pendragons are $2,500, the Lores $1,000. What $700 speaker are you referring to? |
I now have the Lore-S in house as of last night. They only had about 10 hours on them before showing up at my place, and I put about 5 on them last night. I'll be playing them while I'm at work all week and also in the evenings, so I should have about 100 total hours on them by the end of weekend.
I have a bit of a head-cold, and my left ear was kind of plugged up last night, so take my impressions with a grain of salt.
So far, I would say the Lore-S has a lot more clarity, detail, resolution than the stock Lores I have had. It also seems smoother and more laid back, definitely more refined. About the same amount of soundstage depth, but not as expansive a soundstage yet - we'll see what happens with break-in.
What I miss is the level of energy, presence, and liveliness of the Lores. Eric described it as "punch" over the phone. It's that kind of energy that really makes them great for live music recordings. I think the Lore-S are not as efficient/sensitive as the Lores, down around 95-94dB or so. They also have an 8" main driver, rather than the 10". It's going to be a hard choice most likely between the extra refinement of the Lore-S and the dynamics/energy/presence of the Lores. Again, we'll see what break-in does. |
Genjamon - I have the Lores and also a pair of the Katz Meow (Version 1) with the 8" Fostex main driver. I understand exactly what you are saying when you compare the Lore vs. Lore-S.
With my 2A3 SET amp I sometimes like the Lore, sometimes like the Katz. But with a PushPull EL84 amp I like the Lores better than the Katz. I believe it's because the SET allows the Katz to present that holographic image, which the Katz do better than the Lores. But the PP amp has more balls, which the Lores do better so it's a better match.
I would enjoy any of the combos though. Both great speakers (and great amps, IMO). |
Sionlim: Where do you live and what kind of music do you listen to? If you list that sometimes you can easily get an audition. I found the Pendragons from someone coming to my house to buy an amp!
The Pendragons perform exactly as Goramon suggested: Layers of extended bass that are very tight and defined. Absolutely no whooliness! They can be ported in the front if that is better for your room btw.
If you don't need a lot of bass, and your room is small, and you want to save $$$, the Lores are a no brainer. Having said that the Pendragons will easily work in your sized room no problem. |
If you don't need alot of bass?
The Lores do bass pretty well in my condo.
Just ask the neighbors!!! |
@Sebrof,
The M lores price correction 650! I think the Lores will suffice as the Pendragons are a wee bit overkill, but at that price of 2500 its hard to pass up a full range speaker. And if the posts are right, this is like a major audio deal. |
@ Morganc,
I will ask Eric tommorrow as i head down unfamiliar territory once again. Front ports sound awesome to me. And nowadays listen to less Psychedelic Trance and more Yundi LI and yo yo ma.-Its SF, i listen to some hippie weirdo stuff !
I do however rock out and blow my windows out.
The Lore is very tempting, but refinement is actually what i really want.
Again my top runners before i stumbled upon the Tektons were:
Cremona M - second hand
Paradigm S8v 3 - second hand
Focal 836 w- new never heard
Legacy audio classic HD - heard it was good match with my amp. |
02-08-12: Goraman
If you don't need alot of bass?
The Lores do bass pretty well in my condo.
Just ask the neighbors!!!"
I have almost too much bass in my 12' x 13' room with Lores. |
Sebrof - looks like the V3 Katz Meow have the same drivers as the Lore-S, and they're virtually the same price, too. Not surprising they have pretty similar sound. Yeah, if pressed to choose one or the other - which I am - it's quite a hard choice. I've had my list of go-to music for comparing cable swaps and other equipment swaps with the Lores for a while, but with the Lore-S I'm going to need to listen throughout my catalog to make this decision. There is music the Lore-S is doing a lot better than the Lore did, but then music the Lore-S can't compete on - and that's all with the same amp. If you start talking about messing around with amps, cables, etc, this could be a whole different animal. Too bad I can't afford them both, like you, Sebrof... |
Sionlim - the Focal Chorus speakers and the Paradigm Sigs are going to be a "hi fi" sound. The Paradigm have lots of detail but neither of these are my cup of tea - they do not sound like music to me. They are certainly designed first for the home theater crowd. That is not to say they are bad music speakers, as some really like that, but they will come no where near a Tekton if you are guy that wants to try and recreate the live band... (speaking of Lores and Pens only)
Front port vs. rear port: My first pair of Pendragons were front ported, and they had a little more punch (pant flappin effect for sure) and dynamics. Eric told me they wee up +3db somewhere but the rear ported version may extend a little lower, and to my ear and in MY room (medium size), they tend to be a little cleaner or more polite in the bass, or perhaps they don't seemn to overload the room in the lower end as much as the front ports did. They do, however, need to be off the back wall a little more with rear porting, although I preferred the front ported version in practically the same position anyway. Hope this helps...
Great reports guys.... wow, this thread is really rockin! Peace to all! |
I'm in northern NJ. Anyone in the tri-state area who has a variant of the Lore's or Meow's willing to offer a listening? |
Sionlim - "I do however rock out and blow my windows out.
The Lore is very tempting, but refinement is actually what i really want."
Well, the Lore will rock out, for sure, and the Lore-S have much warmer and rounder tone to instruments, kind of a fuller sound. But they still have good dynamics, just not quite the full live feel of the original Lore. Lore-S could be the right balance for you.
However, I'm quite curious what the changes Goraman has done to his Lores do to add extra refinement without expense of dynamics. If I could have these Lore-S with that extra bit of dynamics of the Lore, I'd be in heaven. I also think the frequency balance of the Lore-S is ever so slightly tipped down, while the Lore is ever slightly tipped up. Or at least, the Lore-S is tipped lower than the Lore. Depending on associated electronics and cables, that could make a difference.
I'd really love to hear from someone who has tried the Lore-M as well as Lore about any differences there. |
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