The Snell C7's beat Martin logan at their own game in many ways... except space and air.
They are a dynamic speaker...
I'm simply asking that if someone wanted to go to a dynamic type speaker on a budget and if said person likes the stageing, detail, immediacy etc of a planar which Tekton might suit them???
I assumed because of the discussion here on this thread that the soundstage is larger/deeper and with more detail with the Katz and Lore-S the'd be the closest, and since there is no comparing of the two on this thread or anywhere on the net that I can tell, I thought I'd pose the question.
So I may have been wrong, you say Lore's are the ones...
Thanks |
The Lores fresh off the boat and right out of the box are dynamic,warm and offer reasonable sound stage but lack refinement through no fault in there drivers, cabinet or design.They are limited only by price point.
Spend a little more money on them internally and the results with good source material go's from good to jaw dropping and drooling on your self.My guess is the Lore S most likely uses better capacitors and maybe resisters.
If your looking for electrostatic imaging it is simply not possible to beat Sound Lab 945's with 2X 3125 square inches of radiating surface.No 10 inch driver and 1 inch tweeter can radiate at a combined 11 inch driver surface the kind of imaging possible from a massive high voltage panel.
I would love to have a Lore S owner come over and hear my Lores and give me there opinion.
But being none of us has heard any of all the candidates auditioned in the same room on the same equipment it is all subjective any way REALLY... |
Genjamon, a month or so back you were talking about trying different amps with your Lores in an attempt to close the gap in sound between them and the Lore-S. I'm wondering if that happened and how it went? |
Floosh, yeah I've had an initial foray into amp experimentation. I have an Onix SP3 playing for the past two weeks. It has the recommended upgraded tubes - Groove Tubes 12AX7, Electro Harmonix 6922, SED Flying C 6L6GC.
My other amp I had been using is the Dayens Ampino 25WPC integrated. So now I'm using a dynamic ~40WPC push pull tube amp. I find the SP3 to have more soundstage depth, better fleshiness of instruments, isn't less detailed than the Ampino, but takes a little of the edge off. Overall, I think an improvement, but I haven't yet swapped back to the Ampino again. I want to do that again sometime soon after my ears have really settled into the SP3, as I've found sometimes when I swap back I find things I didn't realize I was missing after the newness of the new amp wears off.
I'm quite interested in trying the new Red Wine Audio Signature 15 - it might be the best of both worlds and would save me from focusing next on cleaning up power to amp/preamp, allowing me to focus on cleaning up the power on my source. |
Floosh, How would rolling different amps change the abilitys or voicing of the speakers.An amplifier at it's best game just sends a louder signal identical match from the source with out any additional information.
If the source is great, or it sucks the amp should only send it along a some what louder.After that the voicing and limits of the speakers will affect the sonic end of the chain.
This is why I roll with laughter when people try to make up for a major deficiency by changing interconnects,speaker cables and even tubes to some degree.You can't seriously make more than a 1% difference with with any cable unless one is defective,even tubes make a very subtle difference.
The best way to address the problem is to isolate the problem componate and either fix it,up grade it or replace it. But you can't mask it.
|
A testament to how well the Lores disappear...
I just had a friend over (someone who doesn't know an amplifier from a Walkman), and she was sitting in my sweetspot listening to jazz and asked, "where's the center speaker?" She wouldn't believe me that the music was coming from the Lores. And it's true--I'm listening to Jackie McLean and Kenny Dorham right now, and even though my listening position forms an equilateral triangle with the speakers, the music is coming from straight ahead of me. Someone earlier in this thread described the Lores' ability to image as erie, and now I see why.
Thanks for the advice everyone gave me on speaker positioning. It really came in handy when the Lores arrived this weekend. Happy listening... |
Goraman, I don't even have the speakers yet, I never said there was a problem. I simply asked if others were finding characteristics they were trying to enhance or tone down.
It was primary related to DACs, as I was debating whether to go with a high clarity/resolving DAC like the Bifrost, or a perhaps something smoother sounding like a TubeDac-11. I went with the Bifrost.
And, FWIW, I really don't care about cables as dear ones are out of my budget at the moment anyway. I was merely fishing for people to describe their own perceived strengths and weaknesses of the Lores.
Truth be told, I'm just overanxious for them to arrive... |
I'm quite interested in trying the new Red Wine Audio Signature 15 - it might be the best of both worlds and would save me from focusing next on cleaning up power to amp/preamp, allowing me to focus on cleaning up the power on my source. I've heard good things about that amp, including from Eric himself. |
for those that have ordered tekton speakers from their website, how long did it take to receive them? i placed an order on March 1st and Eric said they would ship in 5-10 days. then 2 days ago he says they will ship in 5-7 days. |
I don't disagree with Goraman's comments about amps and other switching around not making more than minor differences, compared to what changing speakers offers in the equation. However, I would say that sometimes for me that 1% difference is all the difference in the world. That's really what I'm playing around with in my amplifier switching. I had a Decware Torii II over last summer for a weeklong trial, and I didn't get near the magic from that tube amp with my Lores than I'm getting with the SP3 right now. Slightly different flavors of the same base sound for me. The Ampino was my preference in the Decware shoot-out, but so far this SP3 is giving almost all of the strengths of the Ampino with some additional soundstage and tonal body to instruments.
Are they completely different animals? No. Do they give slightly different, but definitely distinctive lenses on the basic qualities of the Lores? Yes.
Granted, neither of these amps are what you would consider true high performance amps. They're both awesome for the money, and that's the level of money I can play with. I assume stepping up the ladder would lead to greater refinement, and right now I'm trying to decide which ladder to step up.
So, I guess I'd say that while I'm still experimenting, I have found in some of my trials that 1% is sometimes all you need to make the difference between good/interesting and truly involving. |
Rayray8: Your patience will be rewarded. Eric is pretty busy these days. Mine took 3.5 weeks to complete and shipped. I've been digging through my old CD's every night now and rediscovered a whole new listening experience with the Lore. |
I appreciate all that Goraman has written here, but Genjamon also makes valid points. When I make a tube change in the Primaluna Dialogue1, say from the stock Primaluna tubes (EL 34 and driver tubes) to Amperex 12AU7 Bugle Boys and 5751 Sylvania Gold Grey Plate 3m along with NOS 6n3ce Output tubes there is an enormous change for the better in every parameter. It is significant and undeniable. Does it change the inherent characteristics of the Lore or 4.5s? No! But the sound from them is much, much better, the tube changes helped the amp to sound better and consequently bring out the best inherent qualities in the Lore and 4.5s in my room to "my ears." |
I ordered mine in early March of last year, and didn't receive them until the first week of April. Granted, I had a special veneer that took some extra time. Eric was pretty up-front about being patient, but it did take a little more time than he originally quoted. I wouldn't be worried, but sympathize with your anxiousness to have them. |
thanks for the reassurance! just a little frustrated to be told one thing before i placed the order and then it changes after the order is placed. |
Tubes do make a noticeable difference,and even the difference between UL and triode can be very different and we could go into an amp being anolitical or even very warm.
And once more I was painting with to broad a brush to make a finer point.So thanks for calling me on it.
My point was simply this,to meany times I have seen people attack a major problem by making changes to everything but the problem.
for example.
1.A guy gets a very forward and bright pair of horn speakers and changes interconnects,speaker cables and then moves all the furniture in his house then covers the place with room treatments, then finality after a year of changing everything else decides the problem is actually the speakers.
Always start with the most likely link in the chain for example if you never had the problem before,what was the last thing you added or changed?
Sound simple? for some it is not,they want the new componate to work so badly they will exhaust every possible avenue.
When all else fails, reason comes on like a bad hang over and they admit they chose crap.And all the cables and clip on devices won't change that!
I'm not saying amps, tubes ect.. won't make a difference,it just seems so meany people are lead to spending money on very expensive interconnects and other magic beans instead of careful shopping and common sense. And there are so meany snake oil selling crooks,that mislead and down right burn people out of a lot of money for worthless crap in a shinny wrapper.
"There's a sucker born every minute,you just happened along"
Tom Waits quoting P.T.Barnum
That statement is alive and well in audio today,so forgive me if I tend to become a little vocal from time to time but I hate seeing people given bad advice,even if it is the popular opinion of the day.
And trust me when I say,I have seen manufacturers of cables and other stuff mislead people who are still novice and trying to learn or worse people who should know better but desperate to solve a major problem cheaply. |
Hi Goraman, great example and you described me in my early years, gave me a hearty chuckle. Good thing I learn fast. Best! |
Goramon, nice thrashing of a strawman.
Who's harping on cables? I may have included them a couple of weeks ago as an "etc" when questioning what sort of upgrades/tweaks people may have found useful. That's it. And you've been in crusade mode since.
And you're the guy touting his upgraded binding posts, upgraded internal wiring, tweeter deffractors, speaker spikes, and the new Jolida DAC you rolled 1 week after recommending your Little Dot. Plus all the times you've mentioned how revealing Lores are of EVERY upgrade and tweak you've made.
I value your opinion and experience but, jeeze, lighten up. |
All very important to keep in mind, Goraman. I'm glad you made those points. The trouble for me, as I've been down that road of tweaking things when I needed to make a significant change, is that you don't know what you don't know. This is probably the biggest issue for novices or those without the technical engineering background to know crap marketing when they see it. Unfortunately, these online forums merely fan the flames of desire most of the time. If you call people out on their crap marketing, it becomes a pissing match, and the novice/amateur is left wondering who to trust. Ultimately, it ends up being a lot of trial and error and building up of experience. At least that's what my experience has been.
I'm disadvantaged in living two hours outside of Kansas City, the nearest major metropolitan area. I think there's only one or two dealers in the whole area, and I just don't have the chance to check out stuff in-person. In my case, the internets giveth in terms of access to a profound diversity and wealth of equipment options, but they taketh in the difficulty of discerning truth from fiction, as well as in figuring out whether my tastes/ears have anything in common with the reviewer or forum post author. |
Hi all ! Rayray8......just be patient , you will be rewarded with great sound and great dynamics. |
Floosh, I recommended the Little Dot because of it's price point the Jolida was a bit more expensive.
You do have a point,but your cable tweek was a very small reason for my rant.I have just been overwhelmed lately by
some of the ridicules claims made by guys halking very over priced wire and other seemingly magic fixes!
My point has been made so lighten up I shall!
|
I am curious about the Lore speakers. Wondered if any of the inmates that own these would be interested in having other inmates over to listen to them since these speakers are sold direct and there is no way to audition them before purchasing. I'm in the Philly, DE, South NJ area. Anyone live in this area that owns these? I sold a Modwright preamp to a local audiophile and he was running Zu speakers (not sure what model) with a low powered Pass amp. Sounded good to me, but I was not listening intently - never before interested in doing the high efficient speaker thing. I miss the immediacy and punch of live sound, and my planar speakers are not strong in that area. I am a musician and an audiophile (a somewhat rare combo). Trying to reproduce a live sound is tough. The Tektons have me intrigued. |
No sweat Goraman, I get where you're coming from, wholeheartedly. |
After reading all the great reviews i decided to order the Pendragon. I was looking for a second used pair of Lore and i was able to locate a pair on Audioown.com I will use the Lore in my HT and the Pendragon in my 2 channel listening room |
I bought the Pendragons to use in a HT system I like them so much that now i.am working on upgrading all my electronics to see just how good these speakers can be.beautifully balanced great dynamics if you like live sound you will LOVE the Pendragon's.My present set up is Integra 9.9,Anthem MCA 5,Paradigm Reference center and surrounds servo 15 sub.My peference is integrateds with ht bypass looking at luxman 505u,Primaluna Dialogue two and Audio Research vSI60 asking for recommendations.Eric a great guy to work with is making me a center for HT.these speakers are special they deserve the best you can afford to get the best from them. |
Hi all ! I agree that it is fun to see what
great electronics do with these speakers . I am using an Ayon CD-2s cd player , a Cary slp-05 pre with a Cary v12 amp . Sounds quite dynamic and musical . Dont really feel the need to " upgrade" these speakers , although if my room was bigger I would get the Pendragons . |
Just saw that Steve Lefkowicz has a review of the Tekton Lores on Positive Feedback Online. |
03-25-12: Rolandbutcher
Just saw that Steve Lefkowicz has a review of the Tekton Lores on Positive Feedback Online."
I think he liked them ;) |
Hi all ! Yes indeed , another positive review for the Lore . This speaker will hopefully remain unchanged for a very long time , a classic for sure . |
My Lore's arrived 2 days ago. Very pleased.
I'm driving them effortlessly with an entry level Yamaha 2 channel receiver and a Shiit Bifrost DAC with FLACs.
Very textural. Hellova midfi system on the cheap.
While I haven't side-by-sided them, I think I prefer the Lores to my Vandy 2Ce's (already a bargain at twice the price,) and the fact that you can drive them w/ pretty much anything is such a bonus. |
03-30-12: Floosh
"My Lore's arrived 2 days ago. Very pleased.
...and the fact that you can drive them w/ pretty much anything is such a bonus."
Good to hear you like the Lores, Floosh.
Excellent point about the Hi Eff speakers. Lots of ways to make good music in your room, but speakers like the Lores allow you so much more flexibility when it comes to amps. It's a system, and that flexibility pays off. |
Hi all ! Whatever you do , dont get a nice 10 - 20 wpc tube integrated to drive those Lore's . ( audio heaven could result ). Hope you enjoy them as much as we all do ! |
Hi all, I once posted earlier I had though my pair of Tekton Lore's were a bit peeky when I turned up the volume.
I had put this down to the tweeter but it was actually the 10" Transducer.
With the help/guideance from Eric I ordered some Caps and resistors. I have put them in today and it has made all the difference. I can now turn them up very loud with no harsh effects.
They don't seem to have lost any of their dynamics or their signature sound. If anything, they have become less boxy. I also noticed the padding inside was not quite in place, so fixed that up a bit too which could of been the cause of the slight boxy sound.
Was planning on selling them but now they suit my system really well.
I posted this on a Aussie forum and someone mentioned the change I was doing was, I quote "This is called a zobel, and counters the rising impedance of the driver at high frequencies."
It worked great.
Pic here of the mod
http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/3771/p1110158g.jpg |
Thanks for sharing, Rocky! I've been interested in playing with the crossover based on Goraman's experiments, so it's great to hear Eric has some recommendations along those lines. I need to call him. Can you share the details of the caps and resistors recommended?
Goraman, could you compare this approach to yours? It sounds like this adds a zobel network, while it sounded like you mainly just substituted different caps in the existing crossover design. Did you try a zobel approach as well? |
Here is the info.
"If you think it is the 10" transducer bothering you try connecting a 4uF capacitor and an 8 Ohm 10 Watt resistor wired in series with each other - then place this across the positive and negative connections (a parallel connection in relation to the 10" driver)."
The parts I used were a 8.2Ω 10 watt high power Metal Oxide non-inductive resistor and a 3.9uF Jantzen Audio CrossCap. (Closest I could get at the time of ordering)
http://speakerbug.com.au/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=16_2&products_id=43
http://speakerbug.com.au/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=14_1&products_id=20
It seem to get better and better after a couple of hours of the mods.
My ears were maybe udjusting to them.
It has been a great improvement in my system. Even at normal listening levels which does not seem to make much sense from what I have read.
Saw this graph on doing a search.
http://www.wavecor.com/html/zobel_networks.html
For me it has made all the difference and I am thoroughly enjoying them now. |
The good thing with this mod is it was easy to do. Unscrew the driver. lift out and then solder parts on. Put back in.
Getting to the crossover looks to be a little bit tricky.
I too might look at that later like Goraman mentioned.
Right now they are sounding great. |
I haven't found the need for a Zobel network,even at 18 to 20 watts per channel the impedance curve seems pretty stable to me.
Possibly due to the non inductance resisters,internal cabling and upgrade caps presenting a better over all presentation.
They do seem to have a peek between 1khz. and 2khz. as dose most drivers in the extended to to full range variety but it doesn't seem to change with increasing volume.
Or maybe Rocky 500 notices it more in his particular room as he rocks up the volume knob.Hard to say but it dose make for awesome guitar riffs.The Lores are not ruler flat near the upper ranges,I knew this from the first audition,the ZU Essence is far flatter than the Lores but they have a huge peek in the very top end from 15K on up with bass remaining tight but not as prominent as the Lores.
The Lores are a fantastic speaker but they don't graph like the Bonneville salt flats. |
Hey guys. Good to hear from everybody. In light of my interest in recreating a live event, I am thinking trying out a Crown XLS-1000 class D pro switching amp with my Tekton Pendragons. I am curious to see if it will give me the dynamics I am looking for. Dynamics are very good with 12 watt Xindak, so I can only imagine w/ a pro amp. Any thoughts? |
Hey guys, what are your thoughts on using a class D Pro amp with a pair of Tekton Pendragons? I have my eye on a Crown XLS 1000... trying to recreate "live" sounding dynamics in my room. I am amazed at what a 12 watt tube amp can do... but I am a rock and contemporary guy and the "live" sound IS where these Tektons excel. Eric seem to think it will be a great match... thoughts? |
Gpowered, if you go for that Crown lemme know what you think. I'm thinking to get on for my Vandy 2Ce's. It's cheap and so available, returns are easy if need be. |
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Hi all ! I dont know about that Crown amp . Just the name brings back bad amplifier memories from the '70 s . The little Belles A150 is a nice little amp and can be had for $450 - $550 . Al tells me you are looking for an 8 ohm version of the 'dragons? |
The Belles A150 is a terrific solid state amp and I generally do not like SS all that much. I cringe at the thought of the Crown, generally a piece that drove me up the wall with horrible sound in the 70s. |
Hi guys,
I am updating my 'Dragons with Mundorf Silver in Oil Caps and Mundorf Resistors this week. It will take a few weeks of break in and then I will update you all. I'm also going to build some bass traps that are much needed in my space. Does anyone else have any comments on their Dragons? |
I am selling my lore to prepare for my pendragon woohoo :) |
Congrads Boniccie! Bradluke0 - yes, I am considering selling my Pens and ordering the 8ohm version with some other upgrades! Just thinking about it though... if I had a local buyer I may do it. I love my 4ohm model so it's just a thought right now. I am using Crown pro amp right now and it's class D. I love the combination. |
Hi all ! Looks like me and Mikirob had the same nightmare in the '70 s . Boniccie...wish I had the room for the 'dragons , lucky guy you are . Morganc...I was going to build some bass traps too and then got lazy and just bought some . A nice little trick is to stack pillows in different corners to see where they should placed . Another way is to just stick your head in each corner of the room and listen . The corner or corners with the strongest bass is where they go . |
Gpowered, Class D amps are very efficient and should get these Pendragons in a good grip. The SDS amps are great but the DIY Hypex Ncore amps seem to have uped the game. A good class D amp should have no particular "sound", very neutral. Isn't that what an amp should do? Only amplify the source without drawing attention to itself?? Some tube fanatics that are used to a certain "sound" might not go wild for this i'm afraid.
PS: i'm very intrested in a Pendragon myself but also in a good open baffle like a GR research Super-V or an Emerald Physics. Anyone heard these? And how would they compare to a Tekton Pendragon or Lore?? |
G Powered what are the other upgrades that you are considering and what are you looking to improve? I'm upgrading my caps also and maybe looking at the wiring, etc. |
I will be listing my lore here on Audiogon and Audioown.. |
Morganc - mainly just upgrading the resistors to be able to be handle big power, caps, increased internal dampening... and the more versatle 8ohm.
Rcduck7 - the class D pro amp is doing everything you said. I am running a single CROWN XLS 2500 (over 700! guaranteed watts into 4ohms). One thing I REALLY like is the rich, deep, but extremely articulate bass at the lower volumes. This amp really has a tremendous grip on the drivers. CRANK it up and it is crystal clear - almost deceptive in that it doesn't seem as loud as it is! I am not missing my tubes right now. Getting better and better as the hours build up on this amp. |
