Sorry for the spelling errors Floosh. One too many Jack Daniels.
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I'm seriously contemplating selling my Merlin TSM-MMi's in favor of the Lore/Lore-S. These speakers really sound like my cuppa. I listen to mostly modern jazz and metal. The Merlins absolutely shine with jazz, anything acoustic, and vocals but fall way short with any type of heavy rock. The Tektons sound like they do well with both. Will initially be running them with a Cary SLI-80 F1 but also plan on going the low-powered SS route as well. Maybe the RWA 30.2 LFP-V or some Class A SS. Any owners in the Rhode Island area? |
I'm about to sell my Merlin TSM-MMi's in favor of the Tekton Lore/Lore-S. I listen mainly to modern jazz, heavy metal, and prog rock. The Merlins are unbelievable when it comes to purely acoustic music, vocals, coherency, tone, and imaging. However, when it comes to heavier rock and metal, they fall short. They lack the impact for that type of music and aren't the most forgiving speakers in the world. I currently have a Cary SLI-80 F1, All Triode edition but also will be trying to get my hands on a Red Wine Audio Signature 30.2 LFPV to run the Lores. Any opinions? Also what's the main differences between the Lore & Lore-S? Anybody in the RI area with these speakers? |
There's a user who did his own replacement with Mundorf SIO caps, I believe with Pendragons, and said it was immediately evident and great improvement. I haven't seen anything about doing so with Lores, but I would expect similar. It's hard to say whether it's worth it - I don't have experience swapping capacitors and thus don't know how much change to expect. I have explored the cost of swapping to Mundorf SIO on my own, and the capacitors involved cost about $600 for the pair of speakers. Eric isn't making money on the crossover upgrades - it's just that the Mundorf SIO's in the values involved cost that much. |
I can't speak to the crossover update for the Lores, but I purchased the upgraded crossovers from Eric for the Pendragons and it is a substantial upgrade. I only installed the upgrade in one speaker so that I could do a direct comparison between the upgraded and stock versions. The upgrade was easily detected without any burn-in time. The new crossover provides much more upper end detail and presents a greater sense of 'air' around instruments and vocals. It is very cliche, but it really is as if you removed a veil from in front of the speaker. It is a significant monetary investment, but I think the upgraded crossovers are well worth it on the Pendragons. And as has already been said, Eric is not making any money from the upgraded crossovers -- the Mundorf Caps are very expensive for the sizes required (8.2 and 10.0 uF for the Pendragons). You could probably save some money and use some different caps (Jantzen Superior Z caps or Mundorf Mcap Supremes), but the silver in oil are really special. |
Hello Holly,you have not heard anything yet, I have a vast amount of Experience with all Mundorf caps these caps with take at least 300 hours Just to settle in ,they will go through. Few changes from dull, to bright then Start to refine. The Mundorf Silver,Gold oil are better still but wy to expensive.th bass in the silver is not as solid as the lesser supreme but far better Through the rest of the frequency spectrum. I have used all Mundorf products for years. One thing to mention why not use the excellent Mundorf Supreme resistors ? They are a little clearer sounding then the Mills resistors ,what are they using in the -SE version in the lore? And second only to the worlds best for cpacitors as well as resistors The Duelunds from Denmark. |
Hi Audioman, I have the Mundorf Caps SIO in my Pendragons along with the Mundorf Supreme Resistors and I did find the break in process to be very long and not so pleasant at times as has another friend of mine with the same set up. And yes the improvement over the stock Caps and Resisitors was quite dramatic. However, now they are really singing. I am equally impressed with these speakers with a 2 watt Decware Zen and an 18 Watt AN 211. Hopefully I won't regret my decision to sell these in the hope of "upgrading"..........:) |
Having read this thread carefully, of course I'm only able to 'imagine' the sound of the Lore-S. I'm attracted by everything I'm reading about them. My present speakers are British LS3/5a monitors on stands. I like classical orchestra and 50's jazz and I value nuance, refinement and good scale. Has anyone heard both speakers and can advise me as to how they compare? My room is 14 X 16, long wall placement |
I heard Zu for first time recently at Capital Audiofest. I heard the Essence speakers. I thought these to be promising but appeared to be run off an underpowered amp at the show which limited what they could do. The demo seemed more about how few watts could be used rather than optimizing what the Zu's could do, even in a relatively small hotel room used for the demo. Will have to hear again with a better setup. |
My M-Lores arrived yesterday morning and after 10 hours or so of break-in I'd say that review is pretty accurate. These aren't speakers for those who love either highly compressed pop music (which will sound off)or ultimate clinical detail, but if you are in to a "live" sound that make it sound like the band is in the room with you these are keepers. I'm loving them. Batch |
I was looking into getting the mundorf silver oil caps from the supplier here in australia. It's a fair bit cheaper than shipping in from the states. Eric sent me an email telling me I need a 4 & 10 uF caps for the lore but the silver oils only come in a 3.9uF. Will this do or should I put a 1 uF in series with the 3.9? I know some have upgraded the lore xover here so can you share what you did please. Many thanks. |
Comments that this speaker is not for those who listen to compressed pop music and that the speaker is desgined to sound like "live music" concerns me some because I do listen to pop music from time-to-time and I don't want to force myself to buy music that only works with a certain type of speaker as I am looking for a speaker that does well with the kinds of music I like. All the reviews speak highly of these speakers, though. So, just to be clear: Does the speaker call attention to itself or can we expect a good balance between detail, air, soundstage, sparkle and decay? I know the best thing is to listen to them myself but thanks to anyone who addresses whether these speakers will be altogether too unforgiving except for only the best recorded material. |
I'm no pro reviewer, so I'm sorry I can't throw all the lingo at you, but I'll respond as I'm guessing you are refering to my post. You do not need "the best recorded material" -- the M-Lores are rather forgiving actually b/c they don't try to give you ultra-detail. I have pretty eclectic taste in music (free jazz, grarage rock, old metal, tropicalia) & no one is ever going to accuse stuff from ESP-Disk or bands like The Oblivians of being hi-fi, yet it all sound good on the Tektons. There's a naturalness to the speakers that makes me think of "live" music. Highly compressed modern pop doesn't sound natural to me on any system, but it sounds particularly poor to me on the Tektons; I think that, more than anything else, its a by-product of hearing the naturalness of non-compressed music on the Tektons & how the compressed stuff doesn't give me that. Could you listen to Lady Gaga and LMFAO on them? Sure. Would I buy them if that's what I listened to most of the time? Probably not. For me, though, the Tektons are just insanely good speakers for the price. I currently own four sets of speakers and, despite being the cheapest ones, I can honestly say the M-Lores provide the most fun listening. As always, of course, YMMV. |
Even my crappy car speakers will show how fatiguing modern "brickwalled" pop music is. I've had my Lores for almost two weeks now and they have produced remarkably well with everything I have thrown at them. I listen to an extremely wide array of music; with the exception of pop but unfortunately modern production tactics have leaked into most genres these days. It's one of the reasons why I decided on the Lores and I am extremely satisfied that I did. |
Sleeper52, I have had a pair of Pendragons for a few months now and have tried them with Audience AU24 'e' series (pricey), Morrow SP3 (good value), and 14 gauge ofc copper wire from Parts Express (cheapo stuff - did this when I wanted to try the speakers in the rear of my room). Honestly, the Pendragons sound great with any of them. They do not seem to be as cable dependent as other speakers I have owned. That being said, I love the Audience stuff -- their cables just seem to give great tone and balance, and have proven my favorites for many years with many different systems. I'd go cheap for starters, figure out where you like the Pendragons placed, and then look for some different cables if you are so inclined. |
Batch, Nicodemix, and Bc63, thanks for the replies. It's doubtful I will ever move to a vinyl set-up so it's CDs, and eventually streaming for me. Batch, the comment on Lady Gaga and LMFAO had me LMFAO. Would I listen to that kind of music crtically? No, but when I am working around the house, I can see myself listening to a compliation that would include material by both. I understand that the better speakers will always reveal poorly recorded material for it is. I just don't want something that is uber-detailed and it seems like you all have addressed that point rather nicely. Thanks again. I suppose the better approach for me is to order both the standard and Seas-based version and see which suits me best. |
Just got around to reading Andrew Robinson's review of the Pendragon. An interesting take on them. He seems to suggest he is purchasing the pendragons. I might be reading too much into it but he does say they are now his "new reference loudspeaker against which all future loudspeakers, regardless of cost, will be judged". I don't know if that means he is keeping them, along with his Bowers & Wilkins 800 Series Diamonds. That's two reviews of a Tekton speaker he has done. One day, I'd like to see him take on one upgraded with the Mundorf caps. |
Great thread. Let me state I joined the Lore family in May 2011, and have never looked back. See my adventures at AudioCircle (screen name Jazzaudio). I purchased mine from Eric with Sonicaps long before he offered Mundorfs as an upgrade. Why Sonicaps? I had a single-ended Eddie Vaughn tube amp that used Mundorfs and I was blown away by the sound. I also upgraded a pair of Klipsch Fortes with Bob Crites crossovers that featured Sonicaps and was also blown away by the sound (this time in direct comparison to 30+ year old original caps.) Sonicap reviews at 10audio.com and Humblehomemadehifi.com, and comparisons to the Mundorfs, convinced me to try the Sonicaps in my Lores. I'm using a Dayens Ecstasy II solid state integrated amp, and getting incredible sound!!! Fast, quick hig hend with Zero harshness. Great depth and soundstage. Tone, tone, tone!! Deep, tight bass....with tone! |
I have the Lore for over 6 months now and I do listen to Gaga and Madonna quite a bit. I can say is the Lore is great on pop as well because you sometimes got these over compressed pop songs like Madonna's Hard Candy, the bass just sounds terrible and distorted on any other hifi speakers except professional speakers but the Lore will reproduce every bass hit without a sweat distortion free because it's just quick and easy to drive. |
They show a picture of the new Pendragon center speaker in this thread here... http://www.hometheaterequipment.com/floorstanding-speakers-62/tekton-design-pendragon-loudspeaker-official-thread-1244/ |
I have heard the Lore-S and I liked them a lot but thought they might be a little too smooth for rock. I have had it suggested to me that I might prefer the std lore. However, the subject is Omen vs Lore which leads me to believe that they sound similar to the Omen and no offense to the many people who love zu but I just found the sound too different to what I am used to. Right now I have Totem Rainmakers. I would love the Devore 88s but they are WAY over my price range :( |
09-21-12: JkontulyI had Omens and Lores at the same time and compared in a couple of different systems and rooms with 2 friends. Go back to May 2011 in this thread if you're interested. |
Sebrof, thanks for heads up. I also read a review about pendragons vs omen defs that seemed to answer my concerns. In that thread a reviewer stated that for him the omen defs sounded too different from "normal" speakers and it was as if you were sitting in the front row vs mid hall. I guess that is how I felt when I heard the std omens. Not saying that it was bad but just not for me. Of course there is no substitute for listening to them. If anyone has a pair in NYC I would be much appreciative. |
I'm in the process of upgrading the crossovers, and need a little advice. I was curious about the zobel, the crossover I recieved from Eric has a zobel, but is 5.6uf and a 3ohm resistor. I believe the zobel you guys talked about is a 4uf and an 8ohm resistor. Now is it a replacement for what's there or is it put in parallel with what's there? Or would you leave well enough alone? Did you guys experement with extra damping material, what did you use and what where the effects? And as a side note, I'm not going with the mundorf sio yet... I can definatly see why they are suggested, I think they would be synergistic with this speaker, but alas finances at this point. Anybody try any PIO, I'm going to try Russian KBG first and possibly try bypass with SSG Silver Mica. |
Just want to comment on the KBG crossovers with SSG's bypassing them...Oh wow there's resolution, and more natural sounding too, everything sounds more real, more organic. The bass is tighter and much more defined, I've never heard the zing of the round wound bass strings on Blue Rodeo's 5 days in may! There's so much more detail. More soundstage information and images are clearer defined. Albeit the soundstage depth has not improved, but again it is more defined, the back details are brought to where the soundtage existed before. There's more drum stick on cymbals and dryer violins resonating with better seperation in orchestral. Horns, vocals, drums, piano all sound more real. Highly recomended upgrade for a budget. I might try it without the SSG's later on but I have a feeling that's were allot of the detail is comming from. Now to experiment with the Zobel a little. If you put the specs into a zobel calculator it comes to 8.61ohm and 14.11uf, that's much larger than 8ohm and 4uf or the 3ohm and 5.6uf already in the crossover. |
Eric just announced my SE Pendragons will be with m in a week. Eric new custom drivers and he now has some New crossover Additions tell this will be very good.i have modded crossovers for years The new Duelund resistors are the best by far Ever made,and the Munorf Silver oil are special. Through the grapevine Eric has also got his hands On the hot new Jupiter- HT flat stack caps to compare to really shake up He competition he Jantzen Copper Copper coils he uses are excellent. These SE uses custom Seas Mid- Woofers,and the 3 tweeters are the very Good Scanspeak - ring radiator from their upper discovery line. Zu speaker ,are not ,accurate bloated bass,and get this -charge $2k For custom paint. Eric will do any color depending on complexity For $350- $650 .Eric is a very good honest guy ,and a great guy for the Working Audiophiles out there. |
Scutterflux (or anyone with hands-on experience with changing out crossovers, caps, resistors, etc.): I suppose it depends on the speaker, but specifically with the Tektons, how difficult is it to change out these components? If one doesn't like the change, how close is reverting back to stock going to get one back to the original sound? It seems to me that replacing components back and forth is still a change from its original configuration. Kind of like the Heidenberg principle... |
Regarding crossover mods, I'm also curious if people are modding them inside the cabinets, or if you're able to remove them from cabs. I've opened mine up a couple times and don't see how the crossovers are attached internally, assuming some kind of glue, and not wanting to start trying to force anything in there. Is there a trick to it, or do you just have to be really agile inside there with your soldering iron? |
You have to remove the lower woofer and the crossover is glued to the center brace. You have to pull it out and then you will have to cut the wires to pull it out. It would be very tight to work on it inside the cabinet. If you mod the crossover, you will need to rebuild The entire crossover from scratch, oral east I did. The good news is that the parts are very inexpensive so it's not costly. |