"You cannot handle the truth"

Dealers' demo gear?

I'd like to know what the "Usual" Break In Time is ...

bsimpson "Should anybody be weary about any equipment (mostly new) that are barely used,"

This does not make any sense why any component intended for use in a Music Reproduction System should make you weary, tired, or sleepy if that happens you should take a nap or see a doctor or other medical professional good luck to you!  

I would be weary of any quote so garbled you can’t tell if its referencing a Nicholson character, or Brent Spiner.

Its most likely recently purchased equipment found out by the wife. 

Frank

Actually this is one of the hardest things for me to understand. Maybe because I was raised with little and learned to make do and be careful with my money from childhood. Maybe that is what made it so hard for me to understand and accept that there are people who seem oblivious to and show little regard for wealth and treasure.

And I use wealth and treasure very deliberately because I don't mean just money and things but the time and effort and energy and resources that they represent.

I mean as a little kid I wanted to see a movie so bad but my parents wouldn't take me but I was determined enough that eventually I figured out mom had enough pop bottles that if I could load them in my wagon and get the deposit I could go see the movie, which would have been impossible except it was playing three blocks down the street. The movie was the Beatles Help which came out in 1965. I was born in 1957. So at 8 years old I was planning out the logistics of how to earn the 35 cents it cost for the movie and popcorn, including walking there and back, not getting caught.... which I didn't!

All that planning. Thirty five cents.

Flash forward 50 years and I'm on a forum where a guy is talking about buying a brand new $135k Porsche on impulse. Never even heard the word before that day, buying the car. Which then sits, probably gets polished more than driven, and then sold few months later.

What was the question? Oh yeah, should I be wary of that car?

No. The kind of mentality that would do such a thing. That's what I think you should be wary of.

I bought several components nearly new with no issues at all. Even a couple of phono cartridges. Got the best deals compared to buying new. I always buy only from near perfect feedback. A negative because "the buyer decided not to go forward with the deal" doesn't count for me. Who cares, move on. 

Leery, dreary, bleary.  You didn't play flag football, did you?

I think it is funny that no one here gets it.

And some here may be offended. Others not.

But we're talking about audiophiles. I don't know that I've ever encountered a group of people so driven by discontentment, greener grass and what's over the next rainbow coupled by an inherent level of subjectivity that so few are willing to admit or embrace.

Such a combination can only lead to perpetual equipment turnover. Even when hardly used. There is always something better. There is always that bad review. There is always that guy on Audiogon who doesn't like the new gadget you just sold your kidney for. Time for a new one.

Sometimes, you just bought something you don't like. You read all the reviews and it's the 'greatest HiFi item ever', 'best for the money', 'giant-killer', etc etc, and it sucks right out of the box. That's how this hobby works. Someone takes the plunge and buys the components only to find it didn't fit his dream of audio Nirvana and we benefit from them liquidating it. Nothing to wonder about.

Well said, n80.

And, I can't even begin to remember how many magnificent pieces of stereo equipment I've sold over the years looking to move on to the next thing. There's no Rhyme or Reason to it. It's Audio Nervosa.

Mix of what n80 and gents said.

Sometimes people just do not like something as much as they thought they would. No need to keep it.

Touche glupson2. Years ago, after a year or more of reading rave pro and owner reviews of the Pass Labs 250.5, I sold an amp I loved and bought the Pass in perfect condition. I hated the way it sounded and wanted to get rid of it ASAP. Punchline...the guy that I sold it to didn't like it either.
Sometimes we end up not liking what we thought we would like. That's one reason.  

And in this day & age of the brick & morter disappearance, the audio salons where you can see, touch, feel & hear just aren't there anymore, so many of us buy these expensive items *we're only reading about* (see my credit card statements for vintage European 12AX7's this last couple of months), leaving plenty of room for error and more active AG accounts. My stereo was a lot more stable in the 90's.

Sometimes I get very disappoint about a pice og gear. If I dont like after a week or two I sell it.

I have found sellers that have over extend themselves and need to recoup some money from an ill considered purchase. I'm fortunate to have a little bit of impulse control or I would be in the same boat.

Some people get equipment at industry discounted pricing, try it out, and sell it for a little loss or gain

n80 ….."There is always that guy on Audiogon who doesn’t like the new gadget you just sold your kidney for."

Selling a kidney to buy audio gear, ridiculous. By the way, just out of curiousity, whats the going rate for a kidney?

I have gotten much of my equipment used/demo for GREAT prices.  I recently bought a Rega Planar 6 for half price from a dealer because there is a small mar on the lid (I would think they could have replaced the lid and been far better off) and the original buyer didn't like it.  Basically brand new.  Also got a great pair of Rethm Saadhana for 1/2 price, 6 months old.  I always ask why selling when seems too good.  My Rethms were due to a job change and inability to keep them.  I win!!

Like everything else, you should treat all transactions as unique.  But there's so many variables you may miss a golden opportunity by making a 'blanket' judgement about the seller.  Keep yr eyes wide open, never turn the ol' BS 'radar' off, and do as much homework as you can.  The higher the price of the item, the more cautious you should be, but getting a 'steal' is one of the grand joys of this hobby!

Then there's the guy who maxes out his credit cards to buy expensive audio equipment, then the bill comes and he can't make the monthly minimum payments. The equipment is put up for sale, the credit cards are paid off .... and the cycle begins all over again.

Frank

I recently bought a bunch of equipment to set up for a new home dedicated listening room with a tight closing purchase/sale timeline. The home failed a critical part of the inspection process and I had equipment I had already acquired stacked to the ceiling in my office. The loss on the sale of the equipment pales in comparison to what I saved NOT going through with the purchase of the home.

In short, everyone has a different value barometer. Losing a few thousand on a piece of equipment is alot of money to some and not alot to others. Always though, do your due diligence on the seller and look at someone's track record here and elsewhere.

I bought a pair of Maggie’s one week old cause the wife said too big. Ha happy wife happy life. 

Jetter

Lets see , kidney sold to buy The Gate.

So right about 5k right now then.....

Seriously though.

I have bought my own fair share of goodies on the way to audio nirvana only to find either they just did not gel in my system for whatever reason or in some cases they sounded just plain awful!

I do not believe in sticking with it in the hope I will come round to the sound. Nope, if it did not hit me right away out it went. Maybe not the best path but I am sure I am not alone.

I would say right now though that I am a lot closer to audio nirvana than nervosa.

@jetter : "Selling a kidney to buy audio gear, ridiculous. By the way, just out of curiousity, whats the going rate for a kidney?"

Its a sellers market but just like everything else it depends on who you know. And don't forget, you can only sell one!

Any number of reasons - someone loses their job unexpectedly, or put together a system for a significant other who suddenly isn't significant anymore, piece of equipment doesn't play well in a system even though all reviews and preliminary auditioning at other locations indicated it would, etc

I would NOT be weary. I once bought Klipsch Forte III's and immediately hated the horns (no break-in would have changed my mind) and they would never work in the room they were in.  Flipped them immediately.  I probably could have worked with the dealer, but reselling them on my own and buying something else from the dealer keeps that relationship in high regards and deeper discounts.  

I am also a "Watch" guy, and see this with watch collectors.  Heck, I have an Omega Moonwatch in the box, still with the shrink wrap on the bracelet, it has never been on my wrist, and I will most likely flip it having never worn it.  I can see how this could look like strange why would you buy something and not wear it.  (I don't mean for this to be a Humble Brag either, but there are people out there like myself who are simply fickle and/or sometimes it is about the "hunt" or a sweet deal at the time, and your mind changes.)  There are stories about guys buying Rolex Daytona's they don't really want to get a coveted/rare Patek Phillipe and vice versa to be in the "good graces" of the dealer to get priority.  Grey Market Rolex guys buy the slow moving precious metal watches-- to get priority on Stainless Steel Sport Model Rolex's...

So seeing BNIB, low hour, luxury goods like audiophile gear or watches does not phase me.

n80, thanks for heads up on only selling one. Not sure I could get full price for one of mine anyway, its had some hard use. LOL

I didn't read the entire thread so I apologize if I've repeated what someone else has already said. I am a dealer who works from home as I design sound rooms and HT rooms. It's been necessary to have on hand a number of pieces including many models of PMC loudspeakers. I rarely demo as visitors are infrequent, so if I advertise that a particular piece of equipment has less than 30hrs on it, it's TRUE, and what a deal someone will get purchasing that! Virtually brand new equipment for deeply discounted prices... "Hardly used", "not even broken", etc...
I may have a pair of PMC 25/26's where one box is still factory sealed and the other was on static display at a show...so when they go up for sale they will be discounted around 25% and they'll be brand new.

You're going to lose a lot of sleep if you need to understand everyone's wherefores and whys for selling. For me, the people who buy and sell on a whim are the heartbeat of Audiogon. I'm more than happy to let the other guy pay the upfront retail price. I recently bought three DACs so to listen for myself which one I want to keep. So, I'll be selling two of them soon. That's why I buy and sell in a months time.

       millercarbon, most of us over 60 have been raised on the same values as yourself. I share your core beliefs HOWEVER, maybe the guy who can buy a $135,000 Porsche on a whim should post his pearls of wisdom here. I'd like to have that kind of loose change! 

Many times sellers make better claims. It is especailly difficult when the seller makes unvarifiable appealing claims. You be the judge. If it does not feel good than move on.
On the flip side, I often look at scratch-and-dent, demo, and other less than full price methods.  

70 hours is probably a years worth of listening for most of us.  The guy probably just wants something new, or something that works better for his system, or he needs the money.
I have been burned both buying and selling audio equipment.  As far as I'm concerned, the used audio market is fraught with peril.  Audiogon does as good a job as possible, but I think it is a better idea to avoid impulse purchases, choose your equipment carefully, and keep it for a while.  If you just can't live with a certain piece of equipment, sell it or see a psychologist.

I do a fair amount of buying/selling in desktop audio, including headphones. I definitely have sold several headphones, other things because it became crystal clear from 1st listen that I didn't care for their sound. Usually I continue burn-in, hoping for better, but in these cases, the sound that displeased me wasn't changing for the better, so out they go.

I'm not alone in this behavior.

On the flip side of the coin, 3-4 months ago I stumbled over a listing for the endgame headphone and top HP tube amp I'd been thinking of getting. Both cost enough new to give me pause--and here they were, F.S. by a single person who explained that they had been barely used/weren't fully burned in. He had purchased this system for use while exercising, then realized he didn't like headphones much, if at all--and his plan wasn't working. OK, that's quite a tale, might not even be true. Except he had a lot of positive feedback on multiple sites (I checked--zero negative feedback). And his profile on the F.S. site included links to his business, complete with pictures of himself & his wife. Reading between the lines, he has plenty of money, enough not to care about this "mistake." 

So I bought these 2 items (together = the largest used gear purchase I ever made). The sale included a complete set of NOS tubes he had acquired for the tube amp. Punchline: everything was exactly as described. About as new as not brand new gear can appear/act. 

I'm not saying that purchasing nearly-new gear is without risk. Nothing is without risk. But if you check things out thoroughly, it might be worth the plunge, especially if you pay w/Paypal & have recourse in the event of a bad outcome...

simpson

You don't have to eat the whole egg to know it is rotten...

@kahlenz
"70 hours is probably a years worth of listening for most of us"

Would you please elaborate a little more?  70 hours ...
= less than 12 minutes a day, or
= around 1.5 hr per week

1.5 hours a week.  I posted about this on another thread ( https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/what-a-sad-world-we-now-live-in/post?postid=1752367#1752367 ).

Of course, that is for those of us that work and have lives outside of audio.  I think I may edge a little higher than that, but not much.  And I enjoy this hobby as much as anybody.
Now that is actually sitting down to listen without distractions.  I may have the radio on in my car, or listen to my local classical station (WILL Urbana IL, Tivoli Model 1) when I'm making pizza dough, or even catch a short tune on the elevator at the doctor's office, but I don't count those sessions.  That's just background music.

"And don't forget, you can only sell one!"

You can sell two, if you can find "almost new", "barely used", "not even broken-in" dialysis machine on some enthusiast site.

"Would you please elaborate a little more? 70 hours …"

I bought a little portable player a few months ago. I use it more often than I expected, novelty of the new I guess, and it is at 170 hours or so. I was surprised when I checked it, I thought it would be in many hundreds.

"...but I don’t count those sessions. That’s just background music."

I count even those moments. My system is used for that 95% of the time. Plays music whenever I remember to turn it on, but I have no real interest in sitting in front of it for extended periods of time. There is only 24 hours in the day and they are sold out.

That may be how I came up with my evaluation of the systems strategy, It has to sound pleasant from another room.

Marketing is all about making you dissatisfied with what you have (i.e., the new, improved Tide!) and as a group, us audiophiles are prime candidates to buy into their spiel. Don't get me wrong....I enjoy getting new gear just as much as the next guy/gal, but sometimes it seems that the chase is the whole point, not the acquisition and use of the gear. After 40-plus years of semi-fanatical dedication to this hobby, I'm happy with mostly mid-level components that operate dependably, sound good to my aging ears, and give me great pleasure at the end of the day. I'm more convinced that you can eke out better performance from whatever gear
you may own by using the best connectors/cables that you can afford and which are simpatico with the equipment. It's nice to get new stuff, but a lot
of satisfaction comes from little changes that separately might not make a difference, but when taken in sum, lift your system to a little higher level. 

Now here is the recipe for success!

 I'm more convinced that you can eke out better performance from whatever gear
you may own by using the best connectors/cables that you can afford and which are simpatico with the equipment. It's nice to get new stuff, but a lot
of satisfaction comes from little changes that separately might not make a difference, but when taken in sum, lift your system to a little higher level.

Print it. Cut it out. Tape a copy to your monitor, magnetize it to the fridge, carry one in your wallet, make it your email signature. 

Then again what was I thinking, this is audiogon.... nevermind.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled shilling.....