Why do Harbeth speakers have such a cult following

I am constantly comparing live sound to reproduced sound - lifelong habit.  I often close my eyes and listen to voices around me just to take stock of the character of real voices, and note how they differ from reproduced voices.   I usually close my eyes in the presence of live instruments to do the same (e.g. just yesterday upon encountering a group on the street corner: drums, stand up bass, sax).  Same when I play my acoustic guitar, or piano, when my sons practice sax, trombone... 


When I do I perceive certain tonal qualities often more like tonal color.   When I close my eyes in the presence of most sound systems, they just sound wrong.  Voices, instruments may be dynamic, detailed, whatever, but the tonal "color" timbral match just isn't there.  Tends to sound artificial, steely or plastic, or just like someone has dialed the color dial a bit off on a TV.  (I also do this at audio shows - when a nicely recorded vocal is playing it can sound impressive in of itself, but if I close my eyes to directly compare it to the real voices inevitably talking nearby, the artificial nature of the reproduced voice sticks out compared to the fleshy, organic nature of real voices).

Harbeth were one of the very few speakers that survived the "closed eyes" test.  That is: eyes closed, they seemed to produce the right tonal/timbral qualities I get in the presence of real voices and instruments.   And they survive much better than many others the direct comparison to real voices.  They get something fundamentally right about voices that most speakers don't get.  IMO.  (Some Spendor speakers also do this).
I think this is how a lot of Harbeth owners feel.  That to their ears there is a particular "rightness" - where acoustic guitars, trumpets, sax, all sorts of instruments seem not just vivid, but timbrally accurate, right and natural.

harbeths are more popular today than it was 3years ago.It was easier to sell them this year than 3 years ago:) 
Shl5 might lack body if they are in big free space .
If harbeths speakers are new ,they can sound bright and lean.Some people in this forum confirmed it.
Highs on shl5  sounded strained compared to dynaudio esotec and esotar or planar horns tweeters
Vocals ,dynamics were good on them,but horns speakers beat hartbeth in this area

Certainly my favorite speakers in this line are the speaker model(s) without ports. I also favor the 2 ways due to the simpler crossovers. 

I agree that the Harbeths do as well on rock as they do other material. No speaker worthwhile does any type of music better than another. Aside from SPLs of course in which case horns are your best choice.

I listen to rock primarily.  Some of the other speakers I've owned did some things better than my Harbeth Super SHL5 Plus.  My Legacy Audio Focus 20/20s and Klipsch KLF-30s conveyed more sense of scale and dynamics because they were larger speakers with more drivers and greater sensitivity.  They just move more air.  If you want to fill a room with sound and really rock out, those are great speakers.  Where they lose out to the Harbeths is on clarity and neutrality.  Instruments and voices tend to get pushed together more and at those higher volumes they can start to lose cohesion and start to hurt my ears.

Now that I'm approaching 60, the kind of rock I listen to is more stuff like Steely Dan, Pink Floyd, Jimi Hendrix, Santana, Steve Miller, etc.  I am not usually listening at high volumes, and I enjoy the nuances of hearing every instrument clearly defined and listening to the words and musicianship more than ever.  Which isn't to say that I haven't played some Iron Maiden, Tool, AC/DC, and the like through the Harbeths.  They can rock and can go loud without the harshness of many other speakers.  Having 4 subwoofers assisting them also helps make up for the smaller size of the Harbeths and gives things more of a "live" feel.  

I get that what sounds harsh to me can be appealing to many. I belong to a local music club.  On a number of occasions we've listened to a system consisting of either a Primaluna integrated or Anthem Integrated and a pair of Klipsch La Scalas.  I love Klipsch speakers, but the La Scalas hurt my ears at higher volumes.  When we cranked them up I couldn't wait for it to be over.  The other guys all loved them.  When I first heard a pair of Harbeths I fell in love with the sound and agree that there are some trade offs, but overall they do so many things right.

Interesting discussion. I have a couple of comments:

1) I don’t think Harbeth speakers are popular due to effective marketing or just because Stereophile highly rated them. Anyone who has ever relied on someone else’s ear to guide them most likely had been disappointed.
2) they can’t rock. That is false. I listen to a lot of good rock, Yes, Steely Dan, Gregg Allman, Mott the Hoople and many others. They sound realistic and great. They may not add artifacts like ear bleeding treble or artificial bass, but they are extremely realistic and faithful to the recording.
3) There is no “best” speaker in and of itself. You have to take so many their things (room, personal tastes, equipment, budget..) into account

so I think we are trying to answer an unanswerable question...like how many feet is yellow.

i can say that in my room, with my tastes, a Rega vinyl front end, with Exposure electronics make my Harbeth 30.1s sing 

two last things. I have heard it said that Harbeth speakers are what people choose when they are tied to listening to speakers. That is me. And secondly, with the Rega/Exposure/Harbeth set up. I spend a whole lot more time listening to music, and not my system

Good luck on the search. That is half if the fun.

@mapman 
every harbeth model can convey a sense of vocal clarity and realism because that it the mission of their BBC heritage- to reproduce voices in a clear, uncolored natural presentation.  
Of the several times listening to the 40.1 and 40.2 I felt they were extremely natural sounding even with brighter recordings.  The depth of bass from the larger woofers softens the sound somewhat.  
The brightest , clearest sound to me comes from the SHL5+ of which I own.  I just love the sound of these speakers.  
I have owned the C7ES3 as well and they also have fantastic vocal transparency with a touch more richness from cabinet warmth.
The 30.1 / 2 and the P3ESR to me sound more like the 40.2, clear yet with a warmth and treble roll off that softens the sound just a bit too much for me and my system.  
However all Harbeths can respond quite well to system changes that put the sound in a direction more to your liking including room position,  interconnect cables, speaker cables, tube changes (if you have them) etc.    
To the notion that they are not energetic enough for rock and pop I completely disagree.  System synergy in source and amplification can make them very competitive with speakers that have dynamics as their strength.  

All the Harbeth fans who have posted here are correct.
Harbeths are all that.

However, and this is a big one for me - they do not rock and do not have sufficient PRAT for Rock or Pop.

For me Harbeth speakers walk that fine line between being overly detailed and being boring.  They seem to capture every nuance of each instrument and vocals and do a great job of separating them without distortion or glare.  They are also very dynamic with, with notes coming from seemingly nowhere instantaneously.  I wish I could put it into words better.

I've been listening to Steve Miller's Welcome to the Vault the last couple of mornings on Qobuz on my little computer system with the P3ESR SEs, which I picked up for $1400.  The cymbals, the drums, horns, vocals, guitars... everything has so much detail and with a little help from a SVS SB-12 NSD subwoofer, the bass blends perfectly.  When listening to some of the live cuts, I feel like I'm sitting in the club with Steve and the band.  All of this in a small room with wood paneling, no room treatment, the speakers stuck in corners, and me sitting at my computer, about 2 feet in front of where the speakers are.  In a good room with proper set up... 

I've heard "better" speakers, but I can't think of any that I enjoyed listening to more (including my Super HL5 Plus).

@jsautter

Yes, I always find it hard to land on just a single pair of speakers. I have 7 pair in 7 rooms currently. I like to hear different things. Maybe I’m always afraid I’m missing something. :^) The Ohm Walsh are still my go tos. I did think the Harbeth 40.2 brought something uniquely enjoyable to the table, which is what one would expect for the price.

Speaker lines I do not own that I would consider buying at present based on recent auditions:

Fritz
Joseph
Harbeth
mbl

Nothing yet that I would replace my big OHM 5s with yet, but the Harbeth 40.2s and mbl are the closest among those so far at least in size and overall ability. Both my Ohm 5s and harbeth 40.2 use a 12" main driver. Fritz and Joseph do seem to deliver a lot of sound out of smaller packages though.

IMO Harbeth speakers, at least the ones I have heard, are easy to listen to and dont bring about the same level of fatigue as many other speakers. However this forgiveness comes at a price which is why they are not even on my "short list" of speakers to consider. 

@pdreher

That description jives with my 40.2 listening experience.  Very "organic".  I wish I could have stayed and listened longer.

I've owned SHL5's (non plus version) and am on my 2nd go-around with 40.1's.    

• 40.1's... full bodied, refined, smooth, organic with a lot of "meat on the bones".  Not an exciting speaker, but one you can melt into your seat with, relax and spend hours listening to with no fatigue.
• SHL5's (in comparison to 40.1's):  neutral, fast, transparent, lacking body.  I tried using with a REL Storm subwoofer, but the integration could not come close to bringing them to the sound quality of my 40.1's.  A good clean sounding speaker, but not in the same league as the 40.1's.

@twoleftears 

So in your assessment, is the 40.2 just more of the 30.2 but both are similar sound-wise?

What is it about the SHL5 that is different?

Thanks.

It's not 2-way vs. 3-way but rather different "families" within the Harbeth line-up.  40.2 and 30.2 are essentially cut from the same cloth. Although it appears to slot in between them, the SHL5 is really the top of the line of a different family. I'm sure there are family resemblances between it and smaller speakers in the lineup, but not sure exactly which.

Question for Harbeth experts out there:

Are the two way models as good with vocal clarity as the 3-way models?

I heard 40.2 over the weekend with some very elaborate Conrad Johnson amplification driving them.

Vocal clarity and detail ( Donna Godchaux on the streaming Grateful Dead track "Sunrise") was the thing that struck me most. The setup had the speakers well into the room with a lot of space behind which produced an interesting sound stage from the speakers to about half way back to the wall. Not 3-d really, but pretty cleanly left to right, mostly from just behind the speakers with some things a bit more forward, nothing back near the rear wall.

Also I read and hear people talk about Harbeth and CJ adding some perhaps warmer color to the sound. Gotta say I did not hear that at all. Things were very clean, clear and neutral top to bottom IMHO, nothing offensive whatsoever that I heard, which is what I tend to look for.

I had had some exposure to Harbeth Super HL5s and 40.2 at audio shows prior, enough to peak my interest, but this was my first more in depth exposure otherwise.

Have an audio colleague that totally loves his Harbeths.
Have tried the larger 40somethings? on a variety of high end gear - nice enough/inoffensive but not involving or likely to get a foot tapping. Perhaps shone on vocals.
Led to believe they are not too fussy about the front end.
Possibly not difficult to place in a room.
For me they are well suited to those that are hard of hearing, tolerate the horrible one note bass and like the sleepy pipe and slippers sound (Possibly caused by flexible cabinetry)
Harbeths tend to be owned by those who like a valve sound/distortion.
Shows what good marketing (Bose any one?) and client service can do.

did not read all the posts, so I may repeat something that's already been told.
I think Harbeths join a great timbre correctness with musical involvement. at a relatively reasonable price (compared to the crazy world of hifi, where few grams of copper may cost several grands).

well I found very nice sinergy between harbeth shl5 and synthesis roma 37dc+ amp

Started with NAD M2, Arcam, Moon and now LFD NFSE Mk II. Without the latest amp, I would have sold these speakers.

My Resonant Woods stands are in and I'm picking them up tomorrow afternoon. I can't wait to hear the difference with the open bottom stands. I use Skylan stands with my C7's for years and now the only stands I've heard my new SHL5 Plus's on are also closed bottom. I'm thinking the sound will be noticeably different, for better or for worse. Crossing my fingers.

As speaker cables for my Super HL5+ I am now using Duelund DCA16GA tinned-copper tone wire that I read about on Jeff Day's website. I replaced a pair of Audioquest Castle Rock with them. To me they strike the right balance with the Harbeth's but YMMV. I have also used Cardas Golden Reference. All three of these speaker cables work well with the Harbeth's IMHO, I just prefer the Dueland.

Bozak did Harberth better back in the 60's!  Time to move on...unless your talking 60's pricing.  

This question was asked five years ago and I it as pertinent today as it was then. There a lots of great speakers that don't have the following as Harbeth. My guess would a combination of factors such as neutral sound, half decent cabinetry, Stereophile reviews and the British mystique. I got sucked in. I wanted to upgrade my PSER3's and it was easier to go back to where I purchased them and listen to something in the same family. I now own the 30.1's but it took 4 amps to get the sound I wanted. Started with NAD M2, Arcam, Moon and now LFD NFSE Mk II. Without the latest amp, I would have sold these speakers. 

I always enjoy a little Bubble ’n Squeak with my Harbeths...

I hope some of you can upgrade to Coquille St. Jacques  

Have a pair of SLH5 plus for about a month now - and they are quite special.  But I always was drawn to British speakers.  They just seem to have a character that draws me in to the music.

Harbeth does that as good as if not better than most.  Have also had Proac, and Spendor in my home for many years.

Compared to USA, and Danish brands they just seem to warm my innards.  Kind of like bangers and mash.

Obviously you've never eaten bangers and mash. There's never been a forced eating on record. Too delicious.

If you were forced to eat bangers and mash, you'd like Harbeths too

I've used Acoustic Zen cables (Double Barrel Shotgun and Absolute) with Harbeth SHl5+, feel like they are both a great match. 

I have used Audioquest Rockefeller speaker cables for 4 or 5 years now. I just switched from C7es3's to SHL Plus as of 5 days ago and they're still a match made in heaven for Harbeth's. 

IMHO, speaker sound is very much a personal preference. I've owned many brands of speakers over the 40 year period I've been a hifi addict. I still have fond memories of my first speakers, KLH 6s. Now that I find myself in a small apartment, the Harbeth 7ES-3s sound excellent in my bedroom. I especially like the fact that room placement isn't a major issue. While I listen mostly to jazz, I occasionally play rock. My Harbeth's make any kind of music sound great. With a good recording, they will sometimes put out low frequencies with such power and realism that it's scary. I agree with the person who said that they do better with gobs of power. I think that class A equipment would be ideal but it's expensive, gets hot, and will eat power. (I know some of the new class A amps have circuits that reduce heat and power consumption without  intermodulation distortion, but they're out of my price range.)

If anyone knows of speaker wires that compliment Harbeths, would you be kind enough to let me know?

Harbeths are friendly to amps,especially to tube amps.With tube amps midrange become even better

Considering introducing my Prima Luna family to Harbeth.  My older 1.5 Thiels loved the match.

Luna said: "missed a bit of excitement". That indeed can be one of the tradeoffs of Harbeths.....a bit of softening of detail, a loss of peering way into the recording, so they can indeed sound a litle on the dull side. Not slamming the speakers, I welcome their contrast to the more common overhyped, bright, harsh, glarey high end offerings that can ruin the musical experience.

dynamic punch can be achieved using punchy amp and source(dac) and copper interconnects modified with mundorf solder which contains silver gold etc.In my case Krell amp and bryston dac and Musical fidelity vlink192 does this trick

all speaker has it's own characters. I owned HL5S and it has it's own sound being un-amplified and natural but also lacks dynamic punch and doesn't go very low. They are easy to listen to and very musical with all kinds of musics, I toe tapped with everything I played but I missed a bit of excitement. Great musical speakers and not audiophile speakers.

I just bought the 30 model for $1400 including stands for my friend. I hope he likes them.

They are comfortable to listen to for hours on, without listening fatigue.

They seem to do classical music well.

I am excited about them.

Danoro said: "My point is that suggesting that a loudspeaker has a more natural timbre than some other loudspeaker is, in itself, flawed."

I will answer back, not directly pertaining to Harbeths versus most high end speakers, but simply a statement of most high end speakers: Since most speakers directed toward the high end industry have too much high frequency energy (a come-on to the listener in a showroom) and/or way too much distortion from 1k on up, it is entirely possible that the speaker that seems to have a more natural timbre very well could be a less distorted speaker. Certainly, a speaker that has a "more natural timbre" should not be dismissed simply due to that aspect of its sound!

Kiddman

Because they don't have a bright tweeter, don't have grainy midrange, don't have "ear grating" types of distortion. Most high end speakers hurt the ears of many sensitive listeners who are bothered by rough/harsh/bright distortions. Most Harbeths have subtractive faults which don't hurt that type of listener's ears. If anything they are missing detial, missing extension, which does not typically hurt ears.

I don't own Harbeths, never did, never had any sort of business with them in any way. But I know what I have heard from most Harbeths, and have had many occasions to hear them.

Exactly how does a real violin or a real piano sound? I hear similar comments often when discussing hi fi gear (hell, I've made them myself) as if there is some static reference sound emitted from live musical instruments. I have a friend who has a nice baby grand piano. This piano resided for years in a relatively small carpeted room. After she moved, the piano now resides in a much larger room with hardwood floors and a higher ceiling. It sounds like a different piano. I venture to say that a violin will sound different when played on a concert stage vs an open air arena. For that matter, the same violin will sound different when played by two different violinists. My point is that suggesting that a loudspeaker has a more natural timbre than some other loudspeaker is, in itself, flawed.

Anyone else find them to be colored in an unpleasant plastic way?

I like their comfortable sound, buy they don't sound un-colored as they advertise...

Doesn't sound like a class A gear to me, imho.

I would be most interested in what others think of this, since their is a pair for sale for $1350, and my friend is about to buy them...

Everything has a cult following, why would Harbeth be any different?

What I don't get is why it bothers other people so much.

Why does Naim have a cult around it? Why does BMW? Why do the Dallas Cowboys? I just don't know why people get so worked up about it.

I recently got a pair of P3-ESRs and I think they are definitely among the most well judged little speakers I've listened to. I'm not about to don robes of Harbeth grill cloth or tattoo Alan Shaw on my arm or anything, but I can easily understand why Harbeth has its adherents. They communicate music well.

Thanks Egoben. I don't know that either of those would be available here in the States. I've many people seem to like Skylan stands with the Harbeth line of speakers quite a bit. They are in Canada and would be no problem for me to get those. I probably will give them a try or maybe custom build some out of wood myself. We'll have to see how ambitious I get!

Thanks Egoben. I don't know that either of those would be available here in the States. I've many people seem to like Skylan stands with the Harbeth line of speakers quite a bit. They are in Canada and would be no problem for me to get those. I probably will give them a try or maybe custom build some out of wood myself. We'll have to see how ambitious I get!

No_regrets, I didn't use the same stands for both speakers. For the 30.1's I used heavy stands, I think they are called Atacama SE24. For the small P3's I use a much lighter stand made of MDF wood, they are called Audio Pro Stand 620. The only reason why I use these are because of the looks, I like these a lot, the Atacama's are very good but ugly in my opinion. I prefer heavy stands though, as we have two cats running around. Sometimes I put something heavy on the bottom plates just to not risk any accidents caused by the 4-legged little beasts. I once thought heavier stands made the bass a little bit more clear but I'm not sure at all about that. Apart from the overall better sound, I also prefer stands because it lets me have the speakers far from each other, it widens the soundstage very much.

Hello Michaelkingdom,

I enjoyed reading your thoughts in regards to your SHL5's. I believe that the sound of any speaker is greatly influenced by the room that they are playing in as the room becomes an extension of the speaker's cabinet.

So every room has varying nodes, reflective surfaces, as well as absorbing surfaces, etc. I think that this may be one reason some feel a particular speaker may sound warm and laid back and others may feel the same speaker may sound cold or lean or more upfront. So many variables in this hobby!

Hello Egoben,

You are very fortunate that you were able to audition both sets of Harbeths in your room. I would love to be able to that.

I appreciate your tip in regards to using dedicated speaker stands instead of a shelf, bench, etc.

Have you found a particular brand or style that seems to work well for you? Did you use the same type for both the P3ESR and 30.1?

I just wanted to add my thoughts on Harbeth because they are a perplexing speaker for me. I have a set of SHL5 and they are unlike anything else in my experience. I've heard Harbeth described as warm, colored, recessed highs, non-hifi, that the cabinets add resonance. In my case, non of these descriptors is true. Once I got them locked in position, they are some of the most amazing beasts. The center image is spooky - it shimmers and hangs in the air. The center image doesn't ask to be taken seriously, it is right there like a brilliant diamond. In my small listening room 11x13, the bass is not too powerful but it is deep and rich. I use an Exposure 2010S2.

Regarding the tonality, I find the Harbeths cool and on the brighter side. My favorite music through them is rock and rap. I also like jazz but I turn to the Harbeths for harder music. They have an amazing way of allowing you to hear every word of the singer/rapper while no minimizing the rest of the music - to vocals are in the music, not apart from it.

Strangely, I thought I would LOVE vinyl and classical through the SHL5s but I am not drawn to them. The Harbeths are my rock/rap/heavy music speakers. Go figure!

I hope I didn't step on any toes - these are just my own thoughts and I may have expressed so basics incorrectly.

Regards, Michael

To Yogiboy and No_regrets,

I know what you mean and I am very well aware of that a smaller and cheaper speaker model sometimes is better than a bigger one! It depends on the room and the electronics, among other things. In fact, each new speaker model I get, tend to be smaller and smaller each time, both physcially and concerning deep bass. I have listenened to both the small Harbeth P3ESR and the 30.1 in my home with my electronics. I like both speakers and would like to own both. Even though the 30.1 has an 8" woofer, it doesn't go lower than my previous Dynaudio speakers with a smaller woofer than that. Which is a good thing in my room. I don't want too deep bass. First, I don't like it, and my small (16sqm) room tend to create boominess, and secondly, my neighbours won't like it either and I like to play music late at night.

My taste in music is of course also another factor why I like Harbeth so much. I don't know how but for some reason, most older music sounds better than most new music. It might be the modern mastering (loudness war), of course, but that can't be the only reason. I don't know. For example, I played "Silver & Gold" by Neil Young released in the year 2000. Sounds great, a great record (if you like Neil Young like I do)! A little later, I played his record "Comes A Time", released 1978, and you can really hear what a difference it is. It's so much better soundwise, more natural, more real, every instrument and the vocals, are just perfect, like it was played and recorded in my room! Before that, I played Miles Davis' classic "Kind of Blue", and, well, it is really something! I haven't heard these records sound as good and natural before with any other speaker I have listenened to. And for me, that's what it's all about.

(If anyone's interested in listening to the small Harbeth P3ESR speakers (or any other model I guess), just have in mind that they sound much better put on stands, than on a shelf or bench or something. I first listened to them without proper stands, and I wasn't half as satisfied with the sound as with stands.)