Why are brick and mortar HiFi dealers so bad?
I agree with nquery. I go back a long ways in the Seattle area and have seen a number of stores come and go. I have visited most in the Puget Sound area. I'm rooting for Olsen's Hi-Fi. They really like music, offer some great deals and continue to bring in interesting equipment. They just need a larger space and I hope the support continues so they can expand. |
If you go into an audio "salon" ready to complain about "outrageous prices" and suspicious of being "ripped off", they're not going to show you a lot of love. I used to actually buy equipment I liked from a store once I had enough money to make it happen, while my brother used to go into the same store to argue over what they had and how much they could lower the price to what he wanted. I drank the Kool-Aid- it's true. But I got to audition a lot of gear over the years so I could make educated choices. Another friend I had told me I was crazy to buy "wires that looked like garden hoses", but HIS system just played music which sounded "clean enough", but also utterly lifeless. I was diplomatic about his remarks but went on doing what made ME happy. The store wants to see if you will buy something they have- otherwise you can look around all you want as long as you don't take up their time with demo's and asking a lot of off-topic questions. They can be pretty snobby- it's true. That is until you show that you're motivated. And the service after the sale is usually pretty good. |
I live in a small state with no dealers and as such I have always had to buy my gear outside the state. I have a fairly high end system consisting of Rockport speakers, VTL amps, ARC pre and phono pre amp, VPI/Graham TT. Over the years I have visited high end shops in NYC, Boston, Chicago, Dallas, LA, San Francisco to audition and buy new pieces. Generally I got the snob approach and condescending attitude. However a few years ago I was in Omaha NE and visited The Sound Environment, a really high end shop. At the time they were the dealer for the TechDas $90,000 Air Force 1 turntable. I asked the salesperson, Todd, if I could hear it and also told him I simply could not afford it. He was gracious and gave me a tour of the different rooms and to listen to various systems. Then he took me to their reference system room with the Air Force table. All in the system was over $500,000. He asked me what I wanted to hear and for the next 90 minutes we had a great time listening to music. I even met the owner who is very friendly. He invited me to come back whenever I was back in town. I have steered my few audiophile friends to Sound Environment and would suggest others to visit them in Omaha or Kansas City. Or simply call them. And I have purchased from them |
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I am near Winston-Salem, NC. Ember Audio has just reopened and Chris is super knowledgeable and easy to deal with. No pressure sales. I was recently looking for an integrated. He setup a shootout and the Naim Supernait 3 sounded best to my ears. He let me take it home for a week on a handshake. It was a little more than I wanted to spend and his Naim rep found me an unused Supernait 2 for a good price and I purchased that and a Bluesound Node 2i at a great price. Definitely worth the drive around the Triad area and maybe from Asheville if you are looking for something specific. |
A lot of audiophiles on Long Island know that Sound Insight has its main store in Huntington, New York and has a dedicated high-end showroom located in Massapequa New York where we feature our reference system from Pass Labs, Lampizator, GT Audio Works speakers, Synergistic Research, Triode Wire Labs, etc.- Please contact Steve to arrange an audition. (516) 695-1798. Please visit our Facebook page and feel free to like us. https://www.facebook.com/sounderinsight/ |
yes, Bert at Seattle HiFi for sure, he and Gorgon who sells gear for him BOTH have good ears and are excellent to deal with on many levels. not sure if Connon at Tune is still engaged, I hope so as he is tech savvy in the ways of NAIM and also has a good ear and sensibility about him. He got my Unitiserve to backup when the factory support team failed for years !!!!! |
NOW, This is the sort of info that 'we' as dedicated audiosorts need to know. *S* And I'll thank y'all for it.... (Some may say 'demented', but they haven't drunk the Kool-Aid...so they can wallow in whatever chilly puddle of 'bleah* they 'approve' of..*disturbed obscure laughter*) 'Scuse....I'm subject to odd fits...;) Look....This is Wonderful Info for All of Us. If anyone within the view of these posts has the inclination and the time to compile all of this data of these 'True Believers', these gentlemen (and ladies; I try hard not to be sexist about this or that) that put their beliefs into brick & mortar... Please, DO! Collect these comments. Start a forum. 'Do' a website; or find one that exists already, update/add to it, and spread the link/location of it.... I'd love to do such, but I'm a co-owner with spouse of a business that absorbs the bulk of my time. 'Real life concerns' gobble up the balance; which we're all pretty familiar with that daily trudge.... "Jer, the dog just puked on the bed...I'm doing dinner and listening to The Food Channel's (*X*). Can you deal with it? Oh, and the stove has f'd up again...." I'm positive that y'all are familiar with The Drill. Or something like it...;) But...it'd be fantastic if one or some would or could 'do' a compilation of B&M dealers of the equipment that strokes our desires. *S* Make it simple so anyone could add/update, add a comment, provide an address/website/email/phone/hours/name(s)/in stock/displayed.... If you don't want our 'predilection' to 'dinosaur' into oblivion, if you want our desire to make 'Real Audio Reproduction' to devolve into ear buds 'n cells.... Somebody, Please....Grab this flag, and head uphill. An 'audio' Iwo Jima Moment. YOU could be The Guy. A co-worker of some decades ago was related to one of those brave men. I opined that he must be immensely proud of him. His comment: "They just wanted to make a Point of it, and went back to staying alive!" Another was the son of one who got marched into the site of the first nuke test blast site in the U.S. desert. He (at the time...Now? Likely dead) was the last remaining survivor of that idiocy. The rest dead, due to radiation exposure...) (I've been, for rationale unrealized, exposed to these people, and their legacies...but I'll take it as a huge hint of sorts....) If I can take this comment/exhortation/plea to inspire/infect Anyone to do more that bitch 'n whine.... After all...y'all would cringe if a 'oddball troll' like yours truly ended up doing it for y'all. You'd squirm anytime you'd access it. I already have a concept that y'all will Love. Wait for it. *G* And 'love/hate' is already impressed into the commentary of the equipment and approaches 'discussed' in these 'lectric lanes. Surprise Us. |
Regarding Seattle hi-fi shops above ... I happen to live near the old ’hi-fi zone’ in Ravenna/Roosevelt. I have bought gear and spent much time in the Audio Connection (very small selection but John is helpful and his single listening room is great), Hawethorne (outstanding selection of speaker brands but there’s a weird vibe/attitude going on), Definitive (music matters is fun but they are ALL about stupidly priced custom installs and AVR rooms - I don’t think they have a clue about 2 channel). In the past 5 years both the independent Magnolia (used to sell some fun brands like Arcam, etc) and Speaker Lab have disappeared unfortunately. Fortunately, there are other shops in Seattle as well - Gig Harbor Audio is awesome and where I have acquired my latest pieces from (Line Magnetic & Spendor), Burt @ SeattleHiFi has tons of brands and has lent me gear for weeks without blinking (if you can track him down). There’s also Tune Hi-Fi and Olsens though I don’t know them so well. Given the demise of the brick-and-mortars hi-fi shop and what I read about other cities, I feel that we are very fortunate to have a number of shops left in Puget Sound. Some are great, some just so-so ... but many different brands can be listened to, which is the important thing at the end of the day. |
When in SoCal, and especially if you fly into John Wayne airport (Newport Beach), do yourself a huge favor. Walk across the street, get Starbucks if you'd like, then head on over to Excel Audio. Talk to Mike, the owner/proprietor. He WILL take care of you. He has many excellent brands at many different price points and he knows how to assemble systems that sing. He is the most friendly and genuine dealer I know in SoCal. Not saying I've been to them all, but I've been to many of them. Mike and Excel are the real deal. |
Spring & Summer, we get the bike & car crowds in town.... As well as 'touring' the local pavements, they visit the Biltmore estate to the tune of 1.2 mil yearly...and rising.... Hotels are popping up nearly as fast as the 'niche breweries' which makes for 'twisted tourista'. Makes for 'interesting street moves' on their part....'cardiac arrest lane changes', mid-road pauses, left turns prohibited but done (badly) anyway... Better to be in a thriving small city, though...;) |
tomic, Oh...That roller coaster....*L* (Didn't know it by the 'D.D.' moniker...I'm so 'unhip'....).. First driven when new to the area, some 15ish yrs. ago... "Oh, here's this nice shortcut off the Parkway...(she said)...." Downhill then, with a Pontiac LeMans GT, one stayed busy.... Uphill since...more my cup of 'tainment'...*G* Different ride as well... Chatted up a waitress @ Grandfather Mtn. that lives in AVL 'bout 1.5 yrs ago....said she made the drive 'twixt there back/forth in about .5ish hrs. on the Parkwy. in her sedan... (Forget the make, but 'twastn't a Beemer or the like....a nice, 'normal' sort of ride...) Thankfully for the tourista, this is occuring in 'off hours'...Flat F'n Flying, no doubt. Familiarity cedes Restraint.... Apex Everything. *L* |
Thanks, Larry. I/we were in Chicago last year on a weekend 'speed tour' escaping our 'work encampment' in Lexington KY. Went to see the Fields Museum, which overrode 'audio interests' since time was short. Metro Chicago is 'combat traffic'. like most major metros of late. Met a Ferrari owner in a parking lot, chatted him up....'Love the car...can't drive it here anymore. Want to buy it?" (Would love to as well...my license would vaporize in short order. Would also have to find that winning Lotto tix in that parking lot, blowing up against my leg....) "Thanks, but no....I'd have the same complaint, with some variables.." Local roads, more suited to 4WD, for one....*L* |
Colin, noted...and Thanks....*tip of hat* Any and all input is appreciated. Asking the Google is still shooting dice...;) Been through Nashville, but stops have been mostly for gas and Starbucks *L* Know that helicopter well...MOMA flies over my shop on it's various missions of mercy, and I can hear their helipad as well. tomic601 is likely referring to the Tail of the Dragon. Wonderful, a curve every 100 yards on average for 7ish miles. Even in a car, it's 2nd gear and keeps you busy. *S* There's a couple of others in the area; I like the 'hill climb' roads personally; it's easier to control one's momentum going Up, as opposed to downshifts and burning the binders going Down... ;) (Used to ride 2 wheels, but a tad too 'friable' these days. I bruise if you look at me hard....damn DNA, anyway....*L*) "Asheville: Cesspool of Sin" thanks to a House Rep's blurt. I fit in. ;) |
The only legitimate dealer I have dealt with is Alber Sportis who owns Precision Audion and Video in Chicago. I purchase some expensive gear without knowing him and he was twice as good after the sale and he priced things better than the local dealers. If you call him, tell him Larry Edwards in Denver sent you. He is straight up and a great guy to deal with. |
@asvjerry if you ever find yourself in Nashville, TN I'd love to have you visit. I spent some time in an Asheville after a motorcycle crash in the mountains; lovely city from what I saw in the helicopter. ;P - Colin https://gestalt.audio |
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Here in Asheville NC I'm basically limited to: -Best Buy, with it's always changing floor personnel. You generally know more than the sales person, so it's 'get in/get out'. -Guitar Center, good for the odd hardware-ish stuff. If you're not buying an 'axe' or drum kit, you're left alone. -Moog; the museum is fun, but...*shrug* ATL is the closest 'serious' venue for Anything. Just because AG is in Greenville doesn't mean squat. AG itself is an 'on-line entity' without a storefront.... Other than the venues listed above by their supporters, the storefront 'boutique audio shop' is a rare breed. Treat them well, give them your support and business when you can. I've visited various vendors in the Triangle area, Charlotte, and others in my travels with a 500 mi. radius of 'home'. Most are HT shops; when I walk in I get 'short-shrift', since I'm driving my company Dodge dually (a 'working truck', not a 'Cowboy Cadillac' that will Never see dirt). Most of what I see within their walls is Familiar... I haven't seen anything I would call 'exotic' since I lived in the Houston metro area some 15 years ago.... That was the last time I saw some Krell gear. It's become an 'on-line world'. Resign self to 'shipping costs' to/from your door, or lavish your IRL time to your 'local' shop... ...or they will follow the dodo into extinction. (Hi dwmaggie...;) ^5's *G*) |
I'll tell you about my experience with Graeme at CDF in Montreal. I went there for the first time wanting a little info on a Line Magnetics amp knowing that he sold said product. I didn't want to irk anyone so I told him up front that I had seen one of these used and thought of buying it. I'll never forget his reaction. His very words were "Go for it! I've got you covered". I have been a loyal customer ever since and have highly recommended him to anyone looking for SET and high sensitivity speakers. Extremely knowledgeable! |
There are a few left in SoCal: Try Audio Revelation in the San Marcos/Carlsbad area; Jay has been amazingly helpful regarding cartridges and phono preamps (including having the designer of my phono preamp call me--from Switzerland!-- to debug a noise problem I was having, then fabricate a custom length umbilical which he swapped out--for free- with the standard length cable. You don't get service like that anymore from very many dealers. I also used to patronize Jonas Miller (Santa Monica), Absolute Audio (Santa Ana), and Havens & Hardesty (Huntington Beach and two other locations). Ah, those were the days! |
I live on eastern Long Island. Back in the 70s and 80s there were plenty of places to shop for audio. Today the closest one is 30 miles away, and they are moving. You can buy plenty of Theater equipment, since there's a best buy in every corner. I do business with a family that owns 60 independent appliance stores in the NY metro area. Although the manufacturers they have are limited, they do have Marantz and Yamaha. Through them I have been able to special order some of the higher end equipment these lines offer and at dealer cost. I've spent about 5k on about 10k worth of equipment. I made my choices solely on reviews, as no one carried the models I was interested in. So today I'm happy with how it sounds, yet curious about the vast array of equipment I read about on these posts. I hope to attend a show so I can actually here some of the gear I read about on this forum. |
For those in the Seattle area, I have found Olson’s HiFi (olsonshifi.com) to be very good. They aren’t pushy, they have rational advice, they lend components for people to try at home, and they have a generous return policy. They also stock and evaluate very interesting brands. I’m just a regular customer there and have only had positive experiences. I don’t like to bash places, but there is no other place in the area that I would even consider. |
Of course your friend is correct when he told you the local hifi dealers feel used when people shop, listen, question then buy elsewhere. Finding a retailer that does not survive off the teat of the Home Theatre sow is rare. Mostly they have folded. Gig Harbor Audio, Brooks Berdan and Hawthorne Audio -Seattle, love that sign out front which announces that the store is "a nice place" are some of the few I have enjoyed spending time in. But honestly I never bought anything there. Someday perhaps but that won't pay their bills. It was my very great fortune to meet "Blake" three and a half years ago at Audio/Video Choices in Phoenix. My last stereo purchase had been in 1985 at Definitive where they sent me home with NAD and Polks. Last week the owner of AV Choices closed his doors after 13 years to retire. We threw a retirement party at the store two Saturdays back. I am going to miss that place. Even more I will miss the ridiculously honest, unbiased and totally accurate information Blake shared with me. I now enjoy a system (following Blake's tutelage) put together for about $9k that creates what I call that 'magic' sound. As to OP's question, be patient and you will be rewarded. Make it an educational journey. You may enjoy the learning process. Go to Axpona if possible. Join a local club if one exists. If not join the nearest one and read the newsletters. Many manufacturers have gone "direct" and as such offer a trial period. You pay freight both ways. Cheaper to fly/drive there sometimes. |
When I was last into high end audio 25+ years ago there were good stores but if you look at what has happened to society and sales of everything today it is a totally different world (including for the sellers). Trying to actually audition or AB any particular components in a store today might be theoretically possible but in practice very difficult. Online reviews and the ability to easily sell used components are a godsend. |
Worked for Audio Lab in Phoenix from 1973 til IRS took away the keys, owner failed to pay taxes. After two weeks of intense training was given the keys to the store and left alone. The owner was starting a new business Car Stereos Unlimited. I tried to give every person the same attentiveness, no matter who, how dressed. We did trade ins based on the Orion pricing guide. If someone wanted to bring in their gear to interface with the stores, never a problem. We sold Akai, AR, Harmon Kardon, Cerwin Vega, Janzens and Utah speakers as house brand. Purchased my first good speakers from the competition, prior to Audio Lab, one and then the other 2/3months later. Went back to purchase the second speaker, and the salesperson (same one) immediately took me into the same sound room to hear the new great thing, ’Gales’. They no longer carried ESS brand. Showed him my receipt, said I was here for my second ESS AMT4, the look on his face was pure disappointment, Just another 249 dollar sale. Yes they still had the single left over speaker. ESS Heils had a lifetime warranty on the Heil mid/tweet motor. Went back the store 3 years later for warranty and was told to pound pavement. Never went back. Now I live in Redding CA. Best Buys is the ’Big’ audio shop here, no mom and pops stores anymore. How you treat people counts for me. Also worked for Radio Mart in Redding for 12 or more years. Audio lab and Radio Mart both had the same philosophy. Alas the manager and then the owner passed away. Millercarbon and others do any of you remember the mfgs spiff program? +1jrpnde |
millercarbon, Try John Zimmerman at (yet another store named) "The Audio Connection" in the Ravenna district/Seattle. John has been in that small shop for decades. He's got an amazing ear and encyclopedic knowledge though his in-store selection is pretty limited. He's opinionated and very interesting. RE: Portland (where I live now), there are a lot of shops. Sales attitudes span the spectrum. Finally, "Take Five" in New Haven, CT has been super-nice, friendly and accommodating, even though I up-front mentioned I was simply visiting the campus and not in the market for equipment. |
Every city/town has at least one or a few independent audio equipment dealers. The first feature is to look for one that has a top notch in house repair capability. These type of places do exist. Many of them have a small inventory of new equipment but may have access to order from a lot of manufacturers. You may find that these type of businesses accommodate customers in a more humane way than the mega operations. |
Can’t help you on the east coast, but I actually suspect Portland has more audio stores per capita. And they are all awesome, with very little attitude, low pressure, etc. Many allow you to try stuff at home. We also certainly have more record stores per capita. As an ex NY-er, the days when Manhattan was the center of the world are long gone. |
