Who thinks $5K speaker cable really better than generic 14AWG cable?
I recently ordered high end speaker, power amp, and preamp to be installed in couple more weeks. So the next search are interconnect and speaker cable. After challenging the dealer and 3 of my so called audiophile friends, I think the only reason I would buy expensive cable is for its appearance to match with the high end gears but not for sound performance. I personally found out that $5K cable vs $10 cable are no difference, at least not to our ears. Prior to this, I was totally believe that cable makes a difference but not after this and reading few articles online.
Here is how I found out.
After the purchase of my system, I went to another dealer to ask for cable opinion (because the original dealer doesn't carry the brand I want) and once I told him my gears, he suggested me the high end expensive cable ranging from $5 - 10K pair, depending on length. He also suggested the minimum length must be 8-12ft. If longer than 12ft, I should upgrade to even more expensive series. So I challenged him that if he can show me the difference, I would purchase all 7 AQ Redwood cables from him.
It's a blind test and I would connect 3 different cables - 1 is the Audioquest Redwood, 1 is Cardas Audio Clear, and 1 my own generic 14AWG about 7ft. Same gears, same source, same song..... he started saying the first cable sound much better, wide, deep, bla...bla...bla......and second is decently good...bla...bla...bla.. and the last one sounded crappy and bla...bla...bla... BUT THE REALITY, I NEVER CHANGED THE CABLE, its the same 14AWG cable. I didn't disclosed and move on to second test. I told him I connected audioquest redwood but actually 14AWG and he started to praise the sound quality and next one I am connected the 14awg but actually is Redwood and he started to give negative comment. WOW!!!! Just blew me right off.
I did the same test with 3 of my audiophile friends and they all have difference inputs but no one really got it right. Especially the part where I use same generic 14awg cable and they all start to give different feedback!!!
SO WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK? OR I AM THE LAST PERSON TO FIND OUT THAT EXPENSIVE CABLE JUST A RIP OFF?
If you can't hear a difference between cables then you should sell your expensive equipment and buy a Bose tabletop speaker. Now, I didn't say better, because a more expensive cable might not sound better OR if the quality of sound increase difference might not be worth the $$$ difference. If you like the sound of a Home Depot wire, go buy it but don't think overall that there is no difference of sound between that and a more expensive cable
grannyring, Agree, the Duelund DCA16ga is just wonderful. The interconnect as well, I assume you know that already. At the $10 a meter price point from the stellar Duelund company I have a hard time understanding why more Audiogon members don't take a flyer on the speaker cable before spending $$$$ on stuff that likely will not perform better. By the way, I'm loving the Duelund Speaker/interconnects with my DeVore 0/96s as well as my Harbeth SHL 5s and Coincident Amps. Best, Rob
Sorry, but I see too many red flags to believe what the OP says.
"After the purchase of my system, I went to another dealer to ask for cable opinion"
Then a 2 part test where the OP changes all the connections, totally blind and then tell the listner what is connected, but actually lie about it. What high end dealer would allow an unknown potential customer to swap cables in this manner on a display system?
"I did the same test with 3 of my audiophile friends and they all have difference inputs but no one really got it right."
How did this happen, as it implies they were not at the dealer during the original test?
"I was a big believer in high end cable, influenced by my rich friends without really compare or test them out."
To purchase a system with new components listed by the OP in this thread and the rest of them in his other recent thread would take more than an "average Joe" disposable income. Guess I’m curious as to what his "rich friends" have for disposable income.
And finally, the OP profile shows 14 discussions started, with only 2 listed, and 35 responses, with only 12 listed. All of the listed have been done this month, yet a member since 2011. Why has he deleted all the other discussions and responses?
Now it is very true that someone may not hear cable differences if their system is in a cave or under a bridge.
I did a single-blind test with Mogami 14 guage stranded vs. Wireworld Eclipse 6 using neighbors who are jazz fans but not audiophiles at all.
I did not mention which cable was which and was careful not to go "oh, but wait, this is going to be better!" while swapping cables. Which cables were being used was impossible for them to tell at listening position. I was using a Theta Casanova, with Yamaha P2100 solid state amp.
In particular, I did ask them to pay attention to imaging and high end.
Here's the cool part:
They heard what I heard. Mogami had more mid and treble. Wireworld imaged better.
The uncool part:
My jazz friends absolutely preferred Mogami. They didn't care about imaging at all and preferred the Mogami for sound quality.
Individual preferences are the heart of the hobby. Denial without experience is not. Products should be tried before judgement using manufacturers' instructions and a great amount of common sense (re: setup and settling time) and then judged accordingly. Let the chips fall where they may..
If cables make a big difference (and I believe they can in some cases) then the audio gear is not doing a good job to begin with. Audio gear is not supposed to highlight the interconnecting wires but the source material!!!
so sayeth the man who's got a lifetime subscription to The Audio Cheapskate. Of course I'm one to talk since I don't use cables or interconnects. Is that wrong?
I have wondered for some time whether silver contributes to a resonance in conductors that results in it’s particular coloration that I hear. It may not interact with equipment I haven’t heard. Some may like what I think is a coloration due to silver.
But it’s not for me. I’ll stick with pure, untinned, unterminated copper, 12ga stranded, single conductor wire twisted at about three twists in two feet of cable pair run.
Not to hijack the thread, but jut to verify: Is the Duelund 16awg wire P/N 81415? I just may break out the two "C" notes and give it a shot. Been using old Monster M2s bi-wire for 15 years. Easy on me now... -John Now back to the cable rants & raves.
If a system is resolving of or highly sensitive to the wires then it is designed incorrectly. I don't invest in audio gear to hear the wires - I prefer to hear the source music.
*Yawn* Hasn't this topic been 'discussed' to death yet?
Here's the stake and the hammer. Put this vampire down once and for all.
Y'know, just for grins and the 'ell of it....I'd like to see a truly 'blind' A/B/C comp between a 'high end' cable (pick one...you're 'fav', why not), a decent 12AWG copper line with tinned ends ('horrors!'), and a good Bluetooth link 'twixt amps and the speakers. Pick the speakers and other equipment by a lottery...although that'll probably please nobody. But that's democracy for you....;)
I'll bet that if it's done Correctly, Truly Blind, that the opinions that would come out of it would be all over the board. There would be no agreement as to what was best. Again, MHO....and everything I know is wrong...
Until then...I'm going to ignore cable forums. Reminds me of how many angels can be on the head of a pin.
Funny thing I just realized about blind testing: it can prove that those that think they see are really blind, but it cannot make those whom are blind see.
shadorne If a system is resolving of or highly sensitive to the wires then it is designed incorrectly. I don’t invest in audio gear to hear the wires - I prefer to hear the source music.
do you invest in the internal wires of the component that connect all the electronic parts, the internal speaker wires, the wires of the transformer, the wires in the capacitors, the internal wires in stereo cartridges and tone arms? Why don’t all the high end manufacturers just use coat hangers? Wouldn't that be more profitable?
Coat hangers would be very difficult to work with as they are quite rigid and lack an insulation jacket. In theory they might work electrically but are very impractical compared to ordinary wires suitable to the task.
For sure there are several dollars worth of wire in most components and a few dollars in connectors too. I don't see many manufactures putting $5000 worth of wire inside but I guess most manufacturers would never be that stupid when ordinary wire will do.
Actually good builders test the sound of various wire both in the power supply and low voltage circuits. The type of wire used changes the sound just has various types of connectors, capacitors, and resistors do. When I build I also test wire and have spend a few hundred dollars on great sounding wire in point to point wired tube amps. The wire used certainly makes a difference. But, to have knowledge of this you must have actually taken the time to listen to different wire in the circuit/amp and that takes quite an effort. Most designers don't make this effort and operate under the assumption all good wire, in spec for the job at hand, sounds the same. They are wrong as many of us know.
Sautan , the truth expensive cables do sound better than most cheap cables, this is not hype,Nordost kimber MIT Audioquest cardas this company would have been long gone if true audiophiles can't hear the differrence, For music lovers who are happy with their $10 cables, cool. I wish I could be happy as well, but sorry Since I have the means of buying good cables that performs on my system, Iam bless with good ears as well, I enjoy music more with my revealing musical system, with good price cables, My advise to you is be happy whatever wire you use, with those expensive gear you order, you posted here, agoners are here to share their opinions, you can either agree or not, your gain or your loss, that's your choice, I just hope your post is true, otherwise you wasted all our time here, even though I laugh at times, I still have fun reading grannyring post...I like the oil n cotton granny on the cable, I will experiment with Kimchi....
Bpoletti try silver in six twist at four feet it might remove the resonance and coloration, skin effect might be eliminated, black background might improve, you never know....
"I just hope your post is true, otherwise you wasted all our time here, even though I laugh at times"
IMHO, it's obvious that the original post is bogus, however, it does prove that audiophiles can't resist talking about cables. I'm sure the OP has gotten quite a chuckle from this.
by not listing your dealer/retailer, we cannot take your interest(s) seriously. It is not a matter of making anyone look bad/good. It is a matter of facts and accuracy!
I don't envision a dealer allowing someone off the street to bring cables, sit back and allow multiple hookups by a rookie. Not gonna happen. I call B.S. It doesn't help that the OP brags of his serial duplicity.
The test conducted by the OP was inherently incapable of demonstrating what was claimed, that the three different cables did not have different sonic properties. What happened in the story is equitable to what happens at shows when someone moves brass bowls around or puts a weight on a SS component. Half the time audiophiles are convincing themselves they hear a change when it's at best marginal or inaudible. He basically showed that neither his (by self-admission), nor the dealer's ears are to be trusted. That is all the OP's story demonstrates. Because there was no actual swapping of the other two cables the incident cannot demonstrate the three cables sounded the same. It literally has the same lack of testing validity as persons who claim all power cords sound the same but have only used one type.
Note that because the OP could not hear the differences between cables he used a test which set out to prove there was no difference. Hmmm... no bias in that, huh. OOPS! One problem, only one cable used! Just a SLIGHT oversight, as drawing a conclusion on something you have not tested (the other two cables) is called an opinion, not a conclusion! If not fabricated, the account was about a test borne out of ignorance, duplicity, and arrogance rather than sensibility.
For the OP to buy the expensive cable seems in character; deception. :(
The original poster is trolling and I called it 2 hours after he first posted. It is now 2 1/2 days later. Don't you think we have wasted enough time on this?
Cable threads like this are a good opportunity for one to affirm one's own personal biases. To believe that cables make no significant difference is wishful thinking. Any audiophile able to do it has my congratulations.
"To believe that cables make no significant difference is wishful thinking. "
Huh? Did you make a typo? Surely the wishful thinking is on the part of any person believing that a mere piece of copper wire (even some wire costing a ridiculous $5000) is going to transform their system in a significant way?
To me a significant way should be akin to changing your TT cartridge or speakers. Changing cables should not be audible if your equipment is well designed to begin with and the new and old cable is made of wire (no electronics or passive filtering in the cables)
How often do you see famous guitarists switch guitars during a concert? How often do you see them changing the cables to all their instruments and microphones?
Get real. Cables have minimal effect and equipment is specifically designed to ensure this!
It has been said, put 10 audiophiles in a room to discuss cables and they will emerge with at least 11 different theories. Now I'm thinking they will never leave the room!!
That post by shadorne reminds me of a line in one of my favorite movies, "A Few Good Men": "Should we, or should we not, take the advice of the galactically stupid?"
Dave....proving that vampires are Really Hard to Kill...*LOL*
But I really like the 'coat hanger' idea...but only if they're solid copper, like buss bars, tinned from end to end, wrapped in the flesh of some environmentally 'non-sensitive' creature that we eat anyway...
I can see it now....Chicken WireZ. Or, perhaps, KowKable..
(Note: Do Not show up at my doorstep with torches and pitchforks. I am armed with neon transformers. I will stop y'all in your tracks and gaily decorate y'all with lipstick while you twitch. Rubber boots won't save you from looking like a Keith Harding painting gone bad. You have been warned..)
*Evil laughter, fading into the Echoplex thumping bass line*
+shadorne Note he said "is going to transform their system in a significant way?" and "To me a significant way should be akin to changing your TT cartridge or speakers."
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