Who thinks $5K speaker cable really better than generic 14AWG cable?


I recently ordered high end speaker, power amp, and preamp to be installed in couple more weeks. So the next search are interconnect and speaker cable. After challenging the dealer and 3 of my so called audiophile friends, I think the only reason I would buy expensive cable is for its appearance to match with the high end gears but not for sound performance. I personally found out that $5K cable vs $10 cable are no difference, at least not to our ears. Prior to this, I was totally believe that cable makes a difference but not after this and reading few articles online.

Here is how I found out.

After the purchase of my system, I went to another dealer to ask for cable opinion (because the original dealer doesn't carry the brand I want) and once I told him my gears, he suggested me the high end expensive cable ranging from $5 - 10K pair, depending on length. He also suggested the minimum length must be 8-12ft. If longer than 12ft, I should upgrade to even more expensive series. So I challenged him that if he can show me the difference, I would purchase all 7 AQ Redwood cables from him.

It's a blind test and I would connect 3 different cables - 1 is the Audioquest Redwood, 1 is Cardas Audio Clear, and 1 my own generic 14AWG about 7ft. Same gears, same source, same song..... he started saying the first cable sound much better, wide, deep, bla...bla...bla......and second is decently good...bla...bla...bla.. and the last one sounded crappy and bla...bla...bla... BUT THE REALITY, I NEVER CHANGED THE CABLE, its the same 14AWG cable. I didn't disclosed and move on to second test. I told him I connected audioquest redwood but actually 14AWG and he started to praise the sound quality and next one I am connected the 14awg but actually is Redwood and he started to give negative comment. WOW!!!! Just blew me right off.

I did the same test with 3 of my audiophile friends and they all have difference inputs but no one really got it right. Especially the part where I use same generic 14awg cable and they all start to give different feedback!!!

SO WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK? OR I AM THE LAST PERSON TO FIND OUT THAT EXPENSIVE CABLE JUST A RIP OFF?
sautan904

Showing 6 responses by douglas_schroeder

I don't envision a dealer allowing someone off the street to bring cables,  sit back and allow multiple hookups by a rookie. Not gonna happen. I call B.S. It doesn't help that the OP brags of his serial duplicity.

The test conducted by the OP was inherently incapable of demonstrating what was claimed, that the three different cables did not have different sonic properties. What happened in the story is equitable to what happens at shows when someone moves brass bowls around or puts a weight on a SS component. Half the time audiophiles are convincing themselves they hear a change when it's at best marginal or inaudible. He basically showed that neither his (by self-admission), nor the dealer's ears are to be trusted. That is all the OP's story demonstrates. Because there was no actual swapping of the other two cables the incident cannot demonstrate the three cables sounded the same. It literally has the same lack of testing validity as persons who claim all power cords sound the same but have only used one type.

Note that because the OP could not hear the differences between cables he used a test which set out to prove there was no difference. Hmmm... no bias in that, huh. OOPS! One problem, only one cable used! Just a SLIGHT oversight, as drawing a conclusion on something you have not tested (the other two cables) is called an opinion, not a conclusion! If not fabricated, the account was about a test borne out of ignorance, duplicity, and arrogance rather than sensibility.

For the OP to buy the expensive cable seems in character; deception. :(

zkzpb8, thank you for referencing that article! I was the author of that article, and let me tell you it was a fascinating experience! I went to the point of putting my subjective impressions to the test literally, even though as a reviewer it would have caused a crisis in many respects had I not been able to distinguish cables, or other components, blindly.

I was willing to put my reputation on the line as a reviewer in order to confirm or disconfirm my opinions. That is but one reason why I hold no esteem for someone who is so self-confident and chintzy that they will not spend a couple hundred dollars or take some time to conduct simple comparisons. 

There are two kinds of audiophiles, those who talk and those who build systems. Those who build systems get a lot better at it than those who talk.  :)

The surprise regarding amps was confirmed by Richard Van Alstine, who in use of the ABX Comparator obtained the same results; level matched amps were indistinguishable. However, we do not level match when switching between amps, so it's a moot point.

One of my big conclusions after that review is one does not need blind testing to hear differences in cables. If the two cables sound similar, move on, because you will encounter ones that sound quite differently. If you are not able to hear differences at all, then stick with swapping components and speakers.

I expect skeptics to discount my findings, even though I took pains to be precise and forthright. So be it.

dynaquest, it's Soo's livelihood, but it's not mine. I don't get paid to write my reviews. I am fully aware that it is counter-productive to do so, but I also do not wish to be encumbered by the politics of the industry.

I do not subscribe to the importance of break in of cables. I'm not impressed by a method that purportedly yields significant changes when you can do so immediately by swapping cables. That is not readily apparent until you actually DO comparisons. So, you can take me off your reviewers to condemn list in those regards. :)

Shadorne: you commented, "I don’t discount Doug’s findings but the whole concept of cables or interconnects being used to affect sound is wrong. Properly designed audio should minimize extraneous effects (wires between components)."  I ask, says who? Please quote the authorities who have proven that cables are not to be used as tone controls (and imo much more). Last time I checked systems can have any element altered to improve performance. Since when are cables off the table in terms of an element of a system to manipulate to improve performance? Due to theory? That's wonderful, but in actuality, in the real world they are highly effective.

Your argument regarding Amplifiers and different internal wiring, topologies etc. is invalid. You concluded, "Given what amplifiers can do it is logical that ordinary bits of wire can and SHOULD do even better in being transparent to the source signal." Note that all other components in the Van Alstine ABX Comparator review, though differing in schematics and construction, were easily discerned. Amps are unique in this way, and they do not hold that property in the real world as there is no practical way to level match them from system to system.

Regarding your assertion that one should seek better quality gear; How good of equipment do you think you would need to overcome the supposed build quality issue you present? Perhaps$24K in Pass Labs monoblocks, maybe about $35K of VAC pre/amps, Simaudio, SST, Van Alstine, Music First, Wells Audio, Empirical Audio, Coda Technologies, Ayon Audio, Moscode, Jones Audio, Einstein, Pathos, etc.? I have reviewed these all, and ALL of these are sensitive to cables of all sorts. I have never encountered ANY audiophile gear that was insensitive to the use of cables, thankfully! If any gear was I wouldn't want to use it, as it would be garbage. I have had conversations online with Nelson Pass and other designers about such things. It's quite fun, actually!

You guys simply do not believe it. So be it. I'm not going to debate it forever. :)

Dana quest, great, now you should have two cables for comparison! Have at it! You should not need blind testing to compare the fact cable to throw away cable. The test is to see if you can hear a difference. Whether it's worth it is another question.  I'm looking forward to your  comparison.

I would be willing to review Atma-sphere preamp and amp with their choice of optimum cables versus  my favorites and tell about the experience, a no lose proposition for the community.  :)
The arrogance is the worst part of the theorists. Having transitioned from that perspective to a practitioner, it's like being a reformed smoker in a room of people lighting up. They are polluters. As someone who was a cable skeptic but now uses them weekly to build superior audio systems, I consider those who refuse to try the most simple and cheap comparisons the losers. There will always be some who sit in their arrogance and experiential ignorance for a lifetime.  

As for the illustrations about miles of wiring and the last six feet, I guess they never will holistically get systems.  :(
I'm  done wasting breath  on this. The only way to change their mind lies in their action to try. Barring that it's a waste of time to continue debates.

Regarding pro and domestic sound, if you can't see that they are fundamentally different and that much live sound is poor quality  then I can't  help you.i get to use systems that are active and use DSP, and they react identically to passive ones regarding cables.  Let me guess, some won't accept it.

 So, as they say on Shark Tank, I'm  out.


Can't resist one more! Stereophile; Fremmer reviews Boulder 2150 at $ 99K. Power cords effect it? OF COURSE! It would be a POS if not! 

NO amount of sensible evidence will convince a self-confirmed skeptic. It will always be discounted, i.e. "He's a reviewer... can't be trusted," etc.

Re: valuation of cables, we have among us some of the world's most "thrifty" people and there again, NO amount of talk will get them to endorse even modest expense when they got a cord for free! The Wallet rules them more than theory. I know, as I was one of them. The arrogance and self-assurance is off the  charts.

The assumptions the theorists make are lame. In an age of nanotechnology they're thinking like it's the stone age. Listen to them and you WILL build a compromised audio system. 

Finally, Zephyr, I did the same with a boom box and aftermarket power cord; clear difference in sound. With such cheap and easy testing you have to be REALLY pig-headed to not try it.