Besides the Borresen room (cost no object) and OCD Mike’s room ( surprising bang 4 buck) , a whole lotta everything else was a big downer at CAF (not to mention the miserable moronic choice of music the audiophooboos resorted to). OCD managed to do ok in the sht room he had for setup.
Who is excited about Capital Audiofest 2023?
I find I am largely ambivalent and not sure if I will go or not. It’s a nice event and I go most every year but looks like mostly more of the same old same old. Are these shows really keeping up with the times? Anything really groundbreaking there to see or hear? I wonder. Might go tomorrow. We will see
@dodgealum what you impression for bass performance Clayton speakers |
Different take on Clayton Shaws new speaker. Heard it twice—Saturday and Sunday. For the money maybe the best value at the show. However, unlike some other folks here I would give considerable credit to the LTA integrated and, particularly, their new DAC in bringing out the best in the speakers. I am very familiar with LTA amplification which, when paired with appropriately sensitive speakers, is top drawer. The new DAC, which I also heard in the Daedalus room, is amazing—it could make this vinyl lover consider streaming. FWIW Clayton’s speakers sounded very complete and did very little wrong, which is saying a lot at $3k. They are handsome too with a nice wood finish. My only caveat, even at $3k, it that the tweeter is a bit hot—good for turning heads in a show setting but perhaps fatiguing over the long haul—YMMV. |
@thyname hey we are entitled to our opinions. Doesn’t bother me. Don’t really know you. I think I have responded to you a couple times on other threads. But we all have our opinions. Don’t hate to say how you feel. We form our opinions on each other by what we see here. But if my posts make you think this then it’s your right to feel how you feel. On the flip side based on your comments Audiogon is as far as we will probably ever communicate and that’s fine. That’s life. Take care |
@calvinj : I hate to say this but you are the biggest schiillll I have ever encountered in real life and in Internet. I know you do this for the LOVE of it. But it’s getting ridiculous |
Bache speakers were very, very musical and organic sounding., a hidden gem of sorts, from Brooklyn of all places! NSMT in Audio Archon dealer’s room were also very smooth and contrasted with most other rooms. The big Borressen Yikes!!! Same for the big Kroma speakers from Spain. McTech speakers also sounded quite musical, as did the new Quads, if one listens strictly sitting down in the sweet spot. Cessaro Wagner sounded very musical but at 65grand, your mileage may vary as they say. Last year Highwater Sound had no less musical speakers &system from Denmark & Italy at much more accessible prices... QLN monitors were quite impressive but again at about 18 thousands they better be.... Small, powered $600 Elac Debut were amazing! Would make great gift to kids & non audiophile music lovers to get them hooked up into this hobby. Magnepan 2.7i sounded quite good, IMHO better than most mega buck speakers at the show. Viva horns placed full size David Bowie right there in room. Avantgarde horns were quite special, but the room was way too small for these to show their full potential. Also quite enjoyed the newly re-launched Voxative speakers refined nature with classical and jazz. |
I learned that one day only allows visiting perhaps 1/20th of the rooms. I didn’t even make it to the sixth floor. But I did hear some great music. I agree with a poster above that the GoldenEar 66’s sounded great, not at all bright. Best budget sound I heard. I was especially impressed with the sound in the ModWright room, with ModWright components and the smaller Acora speakers on stands. The various Joseph Audio iterations all sounded excellent to my ears. I heard the outstanding ATC SCM50 amplified speakers and think that the decision to lower ATC speaker prices in the US to more closely match prices in the UK is wise. The ATC SCM40 v2 at $5995 might be the new best value in audio. I liked the MBL’s (my first stop), with an incredibly open, spacious sound. I felt as if there was a slight metallic sheen on the upper mids and highs, that another here characterized as being slightly bright. Finally, the sound of the Magico’s driven by the big Gryphon integrated amp at the Command Performance room was terrific. The “light show “ accompanied by electronic music exemplified the cleanliness and power of this system. |
This was my first Audio Fest in many years. I’m retired now and glad to be back in the hobby. I’m building loudspeakers, and Ronnie Thackeray of Carolina Audio (tm) is having me build for him now. We have a nice 2-way, and I wanted to see how it compared to speakers at the show. I’m currently building a full range based on the 2-way’s cabinet-so I wanted to hear that type as well. I have to say—that Hilton is the most confusing building I’ve ever been in. It’s like being in a M C Escher drawing. I got lost just walking in the garage. My car was close to the entrance, and I wasn’t going to move it for any reason! Fortunately there were some nice restaurants in walking distance from the hotel. The big rooms/systems were magnificent, ( NOLA, KROMA, VonSchweikert and others). In most every case I thought the image was unnaturally large. And why did they have the speakers out in the middle of the room? Cost? Prohibitive for most. If I wanted to fill a ballroom with sound, I’d get a set of Altec VOTs. I have a pair of Tom Tutay’s modded Altec 1570b monoblocks that would push them nicely! Show standouts for me: ELAC—had a great sounding small powered speaker. AptX Bluetooth and quite a good value @$300. Give Billy CRUTCHFIELD a call and get yourself a pair. The Rep said that there’s a bigger set in the works. Black Friday prices are in effect now. ATC Acoustic Engineers—showed a 3-way that sounded great and was a good value. Available as passive or powered $5999/$10,999 per pair. The big domed mid driver might be the star here. Nice coherent image and they Rock! MON Acoustic—showed three small monitors that I thought sounded quite good. I heard the Platimon VC One, a MTM design with AMT tweeter. These imaged well. A great natural sound with the Triangle Art and Chord electronics. I could be happy with these. Since I’m building a full range speaker now, I was interested in hearing other FR designs: Voxative was my first exposure. I have not favoured this “Lowther” type of driver in the past. I’ve heard a few DIY efforts and thought them to be shouty in nature. I noted a more forward presentation rather than shout with the Voxative horns and they really engaged me. Bass was surprisingly deep. Voxative’s own 211 tube integrated pushed the speakers nicely. Very attractive looking integrated! I visited Vox a second time, and I found the bass to be excessive and poorly controlled. At $12.5K a pair, it’s a No from me. Songer Audio—on Saturday was playing their Field Coil open baffle HF driver speaker. A 2-way design with a enclosed woofer. I noted a similar forward presentation with greater detail in the upper frequencies. The bass had greater extension and was better controlled. Even so, I felt that the bass was a bit plump and excessive. At $37K for the pair, it’s a No from me. MACO/Macaria—Did anyone notice the two ladies with a interesting looking pair of open baffle speakers out in a hallway? I did, and I stopped to chat. This is a brand new speaker and MACO didn’t even have time to arrange a room with electronics. They invited me to an after hours audition-if they could find a room to present. MON Acoustic stepped up and generously offered their electronics and room. This was pure magic. The Macaria is a 2-way open baffle speaker. Input sensitivity is 88dB. Impedance depends on the number of voice coils used. The woofer has two coils to accommodate this. Similar forward presentation, but this time it was like a direct neural injection into the music. I was twitterpated. (a Disney term) The Macarias would be a excellent tool for a recording studio-you know exactly what’s happening in the recording. Music flows effortlessly from these speakers, and it really is like having a full symphony in your room. Dynamics are a particularly strong point here. Coherent transition from top to bottom. The bass is deep, powerful and well controlled without bloom or bloat. Great texture at all frequencies. Wow……I understand that these come in different materials. Granite, Quartz, solid hardwoods, and itch ply. I’m most interested in the Birch plywood version as birch imparts a natural warmth into the sound-which I like. At $6K for the Birch, these things punch way above their price point. For me, these speakers were the very best of show at CAF. A close friend that was with me thought so as well. A true shame that more folks didn’t get get to hear the Macarias. I’ve been into audio and music since I was small. I’m 68 now and I think that these are quite special. maco-audio.com Instagram @madlyaudio
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@fastfreight thank you for loving our INFIGO Amps I hope they made your ears happy! |
@vacountryboy thanks for 1st place. Our Infigo Audio gear was on those Avant Garde speakers. Thank you for the compliment and I hope you enjoyed listening to our combination and glad that they made your ears happy. |
Yes +1 on the Gershman Avant Garde Speakers @vacountryboy! I really liked them. And I guess therefor I liked the Infigo amps! |
Best of show (by far) for me was the Highwater Sound room, with the Cessaro Wagner II horns with TW-Akustic TT and electronics. Had everything, but started with natural, warm tonality. Thumb-plucked strings by Wes Montgomery in the room. I also found that I had visceral, positive reactions to alot of the crossover—less speakers out there (e.g., Rethm, Songer, Fern & Roby, etc.). I find myself moving inexorably to the “less is more” end of the spectrum. Don’t get me wrong, the Magicos, Echelons, Borresens, etc. are so impressive, but they don’t connect me to the music the same way. It’s like watching the Big Apple Circus vs Barnum & Bailey. I guess I’m just a small-circus guy… |
I attended both Friday and Saturday. My focus was on speakers below $20k. Reading the observations here makes me wonder if my aged ears have declined more than I thought. While I found most speaker systems on display to provide good hi-fi sound, few provided the sense of real in-room performance that I’ve been blessed to hear for the past 25+ years with my seemingly end-game speakers. My long discontinued Platinum One Reference stand mounts remain unchallenged at their $9,500 price in today’s dollars for producing precise imaging, realistic soundstage, and most important to me accurate reproduction of percussion instruments, including piano. FWIW, I came away impressed by two nearly-equal best of show rooms, one delightfully surprising best value room, and one quite disappointing premier. Best of show (first place): 30th Anniversary Grand Avant Garde ($18k/pair). Runner up: Rosso Fiorentino Volterra ($17.5k/pair). Best Value: Q Acoustics 5050 ($2k/pair). Most disappointing: McIntosh’s ML1 MKII ($12k/pair) -- perhaps due to inadequate burn-in prior to the premier. |
I did go to the Philharmonic Audio Room on Saturday. The smaller models (Ceramic Mini and the True Mini) were actually very impressive. I wanted to buy the demo units for both models, but those were sold on Friday. For $850 (Ceramic Mini with ceramic driver) and $380 (True Mini) those are probably the best bargains under $1k monitors. Sound was punchy with a very smooth midrange. |
to my ears, the best rooms were (in no particular order): Kroma speakers/Aavik gear; YG Carmel 3/Vinnie Rossi gear; Vivid Giya 4/Mola Mola gear; Gershamn Acoustics/Infigo gear; Margules monitors/Margules gear (unfortunately the ppl that ran that room weren't on par with the gear - i won't go into details). Besides these 5 rooms, there few others with decent sound: Magico/Gryphon new int amp and Qln flagship monitor. Plenty of influencers that interfered with good listening session - too much talking and acting like they owned the rooms. |
@omniplanarhorn dont forget infigo electronics pushing the gershman’s |
@omniplanarhorn dont forget infigo electronics pushing the gershman’s |
It may not be Munich, but Capital Audio Fest is big enough to require more than one day to audition more than a small sample of exhibitors. This is the fourth year I've gone on Sunday, arriving around opening time and finding they're starting to pack up equipment while I'm barely halfway through my list of "must audition" rooms. My main interest is speakers, and I am invariably amazed at two things: how many totally different designs there are and how so many of the similar-looking designs (i.e., cones and domes in a box) sound vastly different from one another. Top highlights for me this year included Joseph Audio and Magico, both of which always manage to sound musical even under difficult show conditions. I heard enough boomy, one-note bass at the show to last me till next year, but the latter's sounded balanced, with bass that was extended, tuneful, and visceral when the program material called for it but never overblown. The Magico S3s sounded especially compelling with the C.A.T. electronics in the Truman Room, with that same punchy, clean bass plus a midrange clarity that I thought rivaled the several pairs of Josephs I heard, all of which sounded fundamentally right in a way that few speakers ever do. This was especially evident with piano music. Several flights up (or after an interminable wait for the elevator—pick your poison), there were sweet sounds to be heard in the Vandersteen suite. The Quatros were organic-sounding with a top end that was detailed but not exaggerated. I also was rather taken with the Elac room. That company may be best known for their budget models, and indeed they were demonstrating a pair of tiny, powered Elacs, the Debut ConneX, which has a plethora of connectivity options and are currently selling for a pittance, but I was more intrigued by the much larger speakers flanking them. The Elac Vela FS-409s, 3.5-way floor-standers in flawless lacquered walnut enclosures, had superb soundstaging and an impressively smooth octave-to-octave balance. The presentation was slightly more forward than that of the Quatros down the hall. Nevertheless, like those Vandersteens, they got the treble right. These seem to have flown under the radar; has any major publication done a full review? I also heard some impressive sounds in the GoldenEar room, which surprised me because I had expected them to be bright. Unfortunately, the room was crowded and I had more territory to cover, so I didn't have time for a proper audition. Next year, I'll try to audition them earlier. Then there are the Larsens, which are designed to be placed as close to the front wall as possible. As someone with a difficult room layout, and as a fan of Roy Allison's speakers back in the day, I really want to like these speakers. I don't remember what they were demonstrating last year, but this year, it was the top-of-the-line model 9s in gorgeous ebony. And again, this year, the sound was just so-so. I think the room itself may be the problem. Both this year and last, it was a narrow, deep space, with the speakers against one long wall and the listening chairs practically touching the opposite wall. Maybe a more square-ish room would work better. If the back of one's head is almost brushing the wall, the room modes may be impossible to overcome. Back downstairs, I wandered for the second time into the MBL space, hoping for a more positive reaction than I'd had several hours before. This time, I sat in a different location and stood in several other places, but it didn't help. The soundstage was not only wonderfully spacious but impressively stable as I moved around, and the speakers also sustained their remarkable sense of transparency regardless of listening position. Sadly, the bass was heavy to the point of nearly overpowering the rest of the spectrum. Among the less conventional (i.e, non-box) speakers being shown this year, I think I was most impressed by the Magnepans. That company has made some of my favorite speakers over the years, but they don't always sound so good at audio shows. This time, they got it right. By far the most intriguing speaker design I encountered was made by a company called Endow Audio and featured something called "Point Array", in which a series of dome midranges describe a vertically-oriented circle (actually a polygon, but I didn't count the number of sides) around the outside of a tweeter horn. So the tweeter and woofer point toward the listener, while the midranges point up, down, left, right, and at various diagonal angles in between. I can't think how this would lead to the sort of spatial presentation that could possibly be described as coherent, but surprisingly it did. Unfortunately, the speakers sounded far from neutral tonally, with a degree of classic "cupped hands" coloration that I hadn't heard from a horn-loaded tweeter in a long time. In the Spendor room, they were demoing the Classic 100, which must be the antidote to "hi-fi-sounding" speakers. They're old-school by design, soft-dome tweeters and big boxes sitting up on stands, with enclosures wider than they are deep. And they sound simply wonderful, capable of uncompressed ear-splitting levels that, unlike so many others, won't actually hurt your ears. They're a little recessed, a little mellow, it's true, but this seems way preferable to the razor-sharp assaults that are so commonplace nowadays in the name of "detail." Last but not least, a shout-out to the welcoming folks in the Gershman room, who took the time and trouble to seek out my music request. Their Grand Avant Garde speakers sounded lovely: balanced and uncongested, with nearly holographic imaging that seemed to open a window directly to the venue where the music was recorded. I wish I'd been able to spend longer with the Gershmans.
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Really good show, I was able to see a lot of rooms on Friday and Saturday. Quality was really good across the board. Many really solid rooms. The MBL room was very impressive, but maybe a tad too much treble. Otherwise was a very impressive room. Colin at Gestalt had a great room with the Lamm monoblocks, can’t recall the speakers but they were a lot of fun to listen to as Colin would spin many different records one after another. Songer audio was very nice, a little too hot on top for me, but it was a beautiful sound. Nice stuff. Tidal was amazing, probably sat there for at least 20 minutes listening to a ton of jazz. Really great room. NSMT was a really good room, underrated. Both Von Schweikert rooms were excellent this year, with the VAC room being completely filled with sound by their new $27k model. Boressen X2 and the Forte 1 was a better showing than what I recalled from last year with the X3 and Aavik separates. Goldenear was probably my favorite speaker on the 8th floor. Really wanted to like the Magico S3, but sounded dead in the room where it was paired with MSB monos and their DAC, not much better with the Gryphon 333. Convergent Audio Technology was able to get the most out of them, but it still left me wanting. Stenheim was also a bit underwhelming, even with those Dartzeel monos, just not my thing. Lots of rooms had Joseph audio and those little standmounts were fantastic wherever I heard them. OCD Mikey had a very smooth room, easy to listen to, good stuff. Maybe my favorite room - Perlisten and Audia Flight, whatever was going on there it was captivating. |
Compared to previous years many rooms sounded good. 1) Schweikert in the large atrium room. The room, per the designer who ran the demo is the best room on the show circuit. Probably most setups would sound spectacular. The soundstage is like in an IMAX. 2) Cessaro horns sounded good 3) Vivid/Mola sounded good 4) First time I heard the big Bayz audio speaker. Great, but 160k. 5) Gershman acoustics - great price/value 6) Joseph audio - always good, never heard a bad room from this company. Bit dissapointing: 1) Borresson - I wanted to like the rooms and the lower X models, but fatigue set in after 1 song. 2) MBL 101 - Nice, but for 100k speakers something was missing in this setup. Too soft sounding. 3) Sunday was very low traffic. Not good for the companies exhibiting
Overall, great, wish I had more than 4 hours. One really needs 2 days. |
I agree with this statement 100%. I go to CAF every single year. And I don’t take oscilloscopes or decibel meters with me to the party unlike my manmap style friend. But yes, with few exceptions most rooms sounded pretty good. Some of them exceptionally good
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I was there Friday. Was planning to go back yesterday or today but didn’t make it so I really didn’t get to listen to as much as I had hoped. The ampsandsound room was the best that I heard. It was their most expensive Arch mono block amps in action and the first time I’ve listened to their equipment. Very impressive. Also listened to their headphone amp at the Audeze both and was also very impressed. It will probably be my next amp. The QLN reference speakers were very impressive too with the Vinnie Rossi electronics. I always like listening to Classic Audio speakers with the Atma-Sphere electronics. No Class D’s though. And I agree, the Songer field coils were nice too. Deja Vu’s big horns sounded very good and the monitors (sorry the name escapes me) for the asking price of around $7k - $8k were impressive. Last time I attended CAF was 2018 and I must say the equipment that I was able to listen to this time for the most part was impressive and in general the rooms seemed much better than before. |
I went today...
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@thyname can’t get anything by you. But don’t worry I stare at lots of things and my ears even still function as well. It’s a neat trick. Try it you’ll like it!🙏 |
Did you check what people were actually looking at when they had their smartphones out? Sound meter apps are a real thing! There could have been nefarious measuring going on right under your nose. Things are not always what they appear to be.😉 |
Of course not. Read what I actually said which is “it often helps”.
Bass levels have a big impact on what you hear. Too much bass tend to obscure detail in the midrange. Too little tends to make the midrange sound more pronounced. The meter also helps confirm what you are hearing room to room and better understand why things sound different or not. Also my ears are older and no longer hear “air” fully well out to 20khz, but the sound meter app on my iPhone has that covered much better than I. Just because I can’t hear something doesn’t mean a “high end” system gets a free pass to slack off.
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Amazing gear and good people. Some inspirational pieces. It was my first time at the show. I don't know about decibel meters but I could quietly talk and be heard when most systems played. I didn't realize I was a high volume listener, but to me everything seemed like quiet background levels with very high priced gear. Maybe I'm already deaf. Just seemed ... So quiet. I thought we were going for as the artist intended. Have you heard a drum kit in a room before? It's an assault. Most of the rooms seemed like restaurant in-ceiling SPL levels. Not very exciting, I dunno.. |
I am enjoying the show. I like the custom Deja Vu horn system and the horn system that Viva has introduced to this country at this show. Both horn systems are free of the roughness and nasal coloration associated with horn systems. Overall, I liked these systems the most, although both are pricey. I was also extremely impressed with the Pure Audio Project Trio speaker/Pass |
So the sound level is the only possible difference in sound between rooms? 🤦♂️😳🤦♂️🤦♂️
I was at the show the whole day but I saw no people pulling their decibel meters out of their pockets or oscilloscopes.
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jaytor-
If you take a listen to the Arion Audio Apollo 12 speakers I would like your take on them since they are a similar design to your Line Forces. I was there yesterday and listened to them. The way they are set-up you will only be able to hear their capabilities from the front row center seat IMHO. |
Geez, can’t believe I forgot! Since I’m a bit of a Triode Wire Labs fan-boy, I had to visit my friend Pete Grzybowski. He was showing his cables with Living Voice speakers and Border Patrol amp and DAC. This was one of my favorite rooms, showing what can be done for a reasonable price (vs. all the 6 and 7 figure systems - some of them really did sound amazing, but it would be criminal if they didn’t). |
Is Vanatoo there this year? Anyone looking for good sound on a thin budget should give a listen. I’ve got my Vanatoos going now that I first discovered at CAF a couple years back. Wowsa! That’s what modern technology done smartly can do that could never have happened even 10 years ago. Giant killers! |
I spent over 6 hours there yesterday and am planning on returning tomorrow. I was surprised by how many good sounding rooms there were this year. Other speakers not already mentioned included the active ATC SCM50ASL ($22k), Borresen M1 ($100k!), and Heretic AD614 ($7.3k, and very relaxed sound). I also got to hear Avantgardes for the first time. Weird pairing for an efficient horn - dartzeel - and room was way too small, but if you sat in the chair against the wall, it gave you a much better idea of what the Duo GT ($74k) is capable of; I’d rather hear it with tubes though. Oh, and the Deja Vu room, with Vu’s Western Electric driven wooden horns, was very nice. His room last year was disappointing, pretty awful in fact, so it was nice to see a return to form. |
He had a Linear Tube Audio integrated and their streamer. Clayton admitted the sound was a little thin with these components. I thought the highs were slightly brittle, which I attribute to the LTA stuff. I have become very sensitive to edgy mids and highs, so have never been a fan for those reasons. On the plus side imaging was excellent; bass and mid bass were articulate, clean, and powerful; midrange was seamless. Boogie factor really was there. Unless you listen to a lot of pipe organ you won't need a subwoofer. Regarding the negatives, I know determining the cause is a bit of a crap shoot. But what I heard fit with my previous impressions of the LTA gear. A few years ago I had a pair of Spatial X5s, so I have a pretty good idea of what Clayton thinks sounds good. Hope this helps. Specific concerns? |