When buying used speakers are cosmetics important to you?
I have an opportunity to buy a pair of used Totem Element Metal speakers that retail at $20k for $5k. They are flawless from a performance perspective but have cosmetic imperfections such as surface scratches that are not visible from the listening position, thus the price.
How important are cosmetics to your purchase of used speakers?
Yes, I like speakers that have good eye appeal. There are so many great speakers out there it's not hard to find mint examples.
I look at the condition of ANYTHING and it tells me a lot about how something was cared for. Light scratches , no big deal but rounded corners, chips , gouges, no thanks.
As a rule I will usually only buy items that are mint or look really good for their age.. I think about the resale often when I buy. I may keep it forever, I may not. I want it to sell fast and condition certainly helps.
It's a lot harder to sell gear that is poor cosmetically and I want used gear that I may sell someday to sell quick. It's just like a car. Take two similar cars, one looks new , the other is a mess ... which would you buy?
Yes, they were 20k , but what if you don't end up liking them? Not so sure I would spend $5k on any Tekton. So many great used speakers in that range.....
Will only buy Dealer Demo loudspeakers if new is not an option. Poor physical condition of an audio product says nothing positive about the component or seller.
(1) If the speakers are beat up visually externally, one wonders if the drivers and crossovers etc are equally abused with the User carelessness demonstrated on the cabinets FUHBAR.
(2) Without prejudice to the above, 95+% of the AGON Court of Public Opinion will likely quickly rule them out and just shun them in the resale market …REGARDLESS of any lowball fire-sale price..,,, you will likely be stuck with ‘em….full stop.
the fact that you felt compelled to to even float the question in the first place , kind of .answered it. Ergo …Choose wisely.
This is purely a personal choice. If the looks bother you a lot, don’t make yourself unhappy. But, if you value the sound a lot, and you cannot get that sound within your budget, it might be worthwhile to overlook the cosmetic flaws. I tend to look at this as akin to buying a new car, the first scratch might make one quite unhappy, but over time, the significance fades.
When I see speakers with scratches I wonder why/how they got that way. Improperly cared for. Were they mistreated in other ways? Especially expensive speakers should have been cared for but the scratches show neglect.
When I was young I gave no credit to looks. Sound quality was everything. Although, I have always purchased new... I aways keep my speakers for a very long time.
As I got older and more financially stable, looks started playing a role. Now, it is a factor. I never knew that owning beautiful speakers could add to the enjoyment. My Sonus Faber Amati Traditional are simply stunning... as opposed to the black monoliths and obelisks I owned in my younger day. I buy new now... that way they come in absolutely flawless condition and stay that way.
Cosmetics are reasonably important to me, but some dings are not gonna keep me from a set of speakers I really want that are hard (or too expensive) to source elsewhere. And yeah - if I find the actual design hideous, that’s a non-starter for me. No way I can look at something ugly and enjoy my music lol.
It’s one thing if they’re trashed - but most speakers can have a number of mars, nicks scratches (etc) - and still look pleasing overall. I really don’t get being picky to the N-th degree over little imperfections here and there, but that’s the marketplace for ya, so we have to grade accordingly. I’m a different generation (between Gen X / Millenial) than most of the market here, I guess. I think it’s a generational and cultural thing how chill you are (or aren’t) about cosmetic defects. I’m pretty chill if it still looks nice overall.
I have a set of Tannoy Glenair 10 that have various scratches and issue, but still look great in the room. Those were a good deal. Also got a set of Kensington GR that were gorgeously pristine, but I’ve now moved them around and experimented on them so much trying to get them to not sound like sh*t, and they’ve picked up some dings along the way (new crossovers and drivers later, now they sound great!) - that’s life!
While sort of tangentially on the subject of used gear, it still shocks me how often I receive gear with a single loose nut or screw or bolt rattling around in the chassis. Usually not a big deal in the end, but makes a horrible racket and gets the nerves going when you're unpacking. Does that happen to you guys?
those are the speakers but the Torrent woofers were upgraded to V2 from Totem in 2023 and installed by Gramophone, Totem dealer.
Would be $20k to buy new now which was under consideration.
All of the larger scratches except one "raised" chip looked like they would pretty much conceal with a marker or automotive paint pen if one’s not visually OCD.
Those speakers look great. It's only an issue come time to resell. I go to great pains pains accurately grading, documenting, and photographing every issue, so I just have to roll my eyes when someone follows up with "how is it cosmetically, are there any scratches not shown here?". As if this would somehow be missed in the process, and as if such a defect makes it sound bad or break down sooner. Just buy new, at (or near) MSRP if you're so averse to minor cosmetic defects. It's getting to the point now I'd rather just give gear away locally or throw it away than risk dealing with a clown lol.
I'm venting because I'm pretty much through trying to sell crap in this market.
Yes I bought them.
I felt the same as you on the scratches. Were they worth $15k more for new?Absolutely not.
I’m 74. I don’t get OCD much anymore. But I do get anxiety waiting for UPS and FEDEX deliveries of audio equipment and vinyl.
I have Totems now and one characteristic of their DNA is they disappear in the music
Nobody’s perfect though some speakers come pretty darn close.
Call me shallow but we all know that looks matter. The proof is all around us.
We want a positive all around experience. Perfection is nice but overrated. I can live with minor defects but I want my babies to look the part. What does that mean? Who knows…other than one pays for perfection and it does not come cheap.
Really depends on the damage. Surface scratches that are difficult to see unless fairly close or a specific angle? Ok. A ding or broken edge or similar on the back? Probably ok. Deep gouges in the finish? Probably not unless I can hide it or patch it or the price is just insanely good versus the performance. Anything more substantial than that is probably a no.
Function over form, within reason. A scratch here or there isn't a big deal. Peeling veneer? Not an issue. But, anything cosmetic will affect resale if you go that route as most humans are form over function. People buy cars and dogs and all manner of things simply because of how they look. Why do you think D'Agostino makes the audio jewelry? So he can charge a lot more for it. Put all that in a plain black box and it wouldn't sell nearly as well at the prices he charges.
I'll bet at 74 you might have a few scratches as well.enjoy your new found love in that speaker and the sound.keep healthy and enjoy the music. Now give us a followup on how you like the sound
More than kids, dogs, conditioned environment, dings, etc is cleaning lady. Even after saying "stop cleaning at this line" (well in front of gear) I’ve come home to speakers off of every disk, interconnects off, etc. No thanks. Who knows where those beaks would go lol.
Return option is an excellent option when buying used, and TMR ought to be a safe source, and you already know you like the sound of that maker’s speakers.
I would have a plan to improve the visual condition before parting with $5k, then how much I was daily aware of enclosure damage, they might get ’fixed’ soon or never.
i.e. a scratch or ding on the passenger side of my car will wait until a ding on my side, then they get fixed.
Not these, but if wood veneer, a damaged enclosure, or perfect but ’not special’ i.e. common wood veneer, can help lower the purchase price and make it easy to have a local woodworker clad them in something special.
for someone who knows how amazing these sound when ’right’, this $750. can lead to a wonderful looking renovation, better than the fairly common walnut or oak veneers the factory used.
I'd change them to 1 rear wheel, centered, with anti-tipping blocks in the corners, that's more weight per wheel, and 3 never wobble, so movement, alternate toe-in is easy.
Not to derail this but I have several tektons and consider them the best bang for the buck. They may not win the beauty contest but several major manufactures are putting Eric Alexander's array in their speakers.thats how good that design is. Momentum is mass x velocity and because they are small and light they are quick start and stop transients. Fast responsive like ribbon speakers. Enjoy the music.
Minor imperfections like scratches I don’t see unless I look for them don’t bother me. I bought a used pair of Revel Concerta2 F35 in gloss black. They had a few minor scratches but nothing major. They sound great and were only $500 for the pair. I would not buy gloss speakers again though because they show everything and I hate dusting.
Factors like how often does the speaker come up for sale? I bought a pair of ushers be20 dmd’s the seller rated 5 of 10 but they never come up used locally, the seller did a passable job repainting them and I was confident they would resell if/when I moved to the next purchase
Tolerance for component blemishes AND the amount of discount vs new to tolerate these imperfections is highly subjective, so sharing our individual preferences is not very helpful.
Generally, I except most used components to be at 30-50% discount vs new. If the OP loves the Totem Element Metal speakers in excellent “flawless performance” working condition, then the 5k price (75% discount vs new) seems like a subjective sonic bargain.
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