What's the weakest link in my stereo set up? I live in a townhome, so limited on space.
90% of my time is used listening to records. The other 10% is used by my wife and I to just stream TIDAL or Spotify.
I live in a three story townhome. High ceilings. Not wide rooms, but long.
I would love to be able to use a room just for the stereo, but I cannot. I like staying married, which also means I cannot turn our guest bedroom into just a music-listening adventure room. So, the stereo is in my living room on the first floor. This also means I don’t have room for floor standing speakers.
Focal 906 bookshelf speakers
Technics SL-1210 Mk II (modded out by KAB USA)
Currently using a Nagaoka MP-150 cartridge
McIntosh MP100 phono amp
Cambridge EVO 150 stereo amplifier, entertainment hub, streamer, etc (my wife uses this a lot to stream Spotify while going about the house)
Topping A70Pro headphone amplifier
I’m going to assume people are going to say either my turntable or my speakers. Would it be wise to upgrade my Technics to one of the higher end models? I really love the ease of using this little beast of a player. I know it’s known as "the DJ turntable", but it wasn’t made to be one -- it just became that.
The Focals are nice too, and they were also bought new for less than a grand.
(Also, sorry if this is subjective as a question. I’m new to a lot of this. I hope something stands out as an obvious room to upgrade no matter what your tastes are.
Also, I’ve been selling some of the equipment that my late father had, and while doing so I’ve been getting interested in upgrading the system I cobbled together years ago. And no, for emotional and attachment reasons, I didn’t want to keep things that he owned.)
I'd agree with the recommendation for room acoustics, there are very attractive diffusers and absorption panels these days......they even can use your own pictures or art for panels.
Give GIK acoustics a call, have your room dimensions handy, and see what they might suggest.
I live in a small apartment and have similar limited placement issues. I have a large LP collection (housed in IKEA Expedit) and recently moved the LPs out of the listening room to a small bedroom in place of a smaller IKEA Kallax and lower speaker stands. The change yielded huge benefits and added more room around the speakers and now it sounds like an entirely different system. Go check out my system here for the pics
Air Matrix, sounds about right. I trust these guys. Over twenty years ago I used to call up and talk to the founder. Since then he died and his brother took over (last I heard). I suspect the Air Matrix Cryo may be worth it... but I have not tried them. Just on the basis of my experience with them would I trust that the additional cost is worth it.
My suggestion, besides room treatments, is get a Furman with SMP. I did the apartment lifestyle most of my life and Furman always cleaned up the sound.
You have some excellent equipment.
I live in a townhome as well, and my stereo sits in a 15ft x 20ft open area to a dining room. The ceilings are 25ft high.
Because of budget and space limitations I went with an integrated amp setup. I have separate DAC and steamer setups.
I have curtains in back of where I sit so minimized reflection from the windows in back of me. I appreciate your sutuation. Amazingly, the sound is great here!
I suspect my sound would be better in a dedicated room with four walls and a lower ceiling , but for now, this is the best I can do.
Yeah I'm another guy with Cathedral ceiling .Your system seems fine ,sit back and enjoy.I like the set up I have and the speakers playing out over the balcony. It fills the room with sound and I feel like I'm at a concert.
So, if are talking about speaker cable, for instance, the Q-10 looks like a good choice.
In general, your Focal speakers are going to be a little hot on the top end, so you don’t want to get too fast and detailed. I’d stay in the middle to warm and natural to make sure you get the most musical / natural sound out of your system.
I took a look at DH. The prices are not terrible, but they have multiple cables for what type of sound you want. I am not that well versed in sound to know if I want ones that are warm, emphasis highs, etc.
I think cables are a water I shouldn't wade into without knowing what I'm doing.
First off anyone who says cables don’t make a difference is because they dont have a system revealing enough to hear it. And if this is true about yours then definitely don’t waste your money. Focals are very revealing but Macintosh and Cambridge (and I’m a fan of what Cambridge does and offers for the price) however are right on that edge where cables may or may not matter for you, use your best judgment if you think your system is fully open as oppose to veiled. In my system I hear differences in every cable I’ve swapped. But let’s be honest, they are waaaaay over priced. I had my Silver XLRs hand made from a gentleman in Australia, I don’t know if he’s even around anymore. But I have a solution, make your own!!! Im making a pair for my subs bcs I couldn’t stomach spending another $1k on cables. Supplies cost about 200-300 and you couldn’t get this quality under several thousands from any manufacturers selling high end cables. Plenty of step by step videos on YT for making your own interconnects and speakers. Its alot easier than you realize. As far as power cables I’ve never tried swapping out or upgrading so my opinion isnt worth much other than I’m less optimistic on the effects of different power cords. Anyways hope this helps
I recommend DHLabs interconnects and cables as a reasonable cost quality interconnect. I have these around a quality connectors when I get a new piece of equipment and want to spend the first six months with the new component, getting it broken in and getting to know the sound.
Blue jeans are budget interconnects ... low end, often marginally better or not at all than consumer. I tried them to see just to see how they sounded. I have nearly fifty years of experience in high end audio. You can see my systems under my user ID. Everyone's system is different so the impact on the sound quality is highly variable. The difference in high end wires increases as the sensitivity of your system goes up. Typically the rule of thumb is think of spending 10% or so the value of your system. More or less can be appropriate.
If you are reading cable threads that 90% of the time say it snake oil. You are reading the wrong threads. This is categorically wrong.
@sudnhI use Blue Jean cables for both speakers and interconnects. I've read many times they are not low end, but I'm also not spending hundreds of bucks on cables.
Is there a brand you would recommend me try that is also "entry level high end" that isn't a laughable price?
I say this because 90% of thr cable threads I've read say most of the times it's snake oil.
Ignore the dullards who tell you cables don’t matter because of science. They know nothing about science and are too dumb to try something.
I note below where you can borrow cables to try out.
Your equipment would benefit from good cables. You have entry level high end gear. You don’t mention what you are using for cables.
start with speaker cables. I will recommend kimber kable 4tc for your setup.
contact thecableco.com.
they will let you borrow a bunch of cables for a small fee (that’s put towards purchase). They may recommend other cables in your price range. Borrow and try them. Very worth it.
Ignore any of these people recommending something as ridiculous as upgraded cables and power cords.
Back here in reality, where science triumphs over snake oil marketing, I think you should start by looking at your room acoustics before buying any new gear.
think of them as the smallest big speaker, easy to have refinished if you love them.
put them on stands, tilted back, toed-in: rear level controls for tweeter and mid range like my AR2ax’s which have 10" woofers, the AR-3’s have 12" woofers
"The Acoustic Research AR-3a Loudspeaker:
The AR-3a is a 3-way, full-range, 4-ohm acoustic-suspension loudspeaker—technically a bookshelf speaker for very sturdy bookshelves—which includes the well-known AR 12-inch acoustic-suspension woofer and dome midrange and tweeter drivers, based on the original AR-3.
The AR-3a was designed by Chuck McShane and Roy Allison of Acoustic Research, Inc., and the speaker was introduced at the New York High Fidelity Music Show in October, 1967. The basic design goals of the AR-3a were originally established in 1965-1966 by AR cofounder Edgar Villchur, with the objective of improving the already excellent off-axis dispersion of the renowned AR-3. The result was a speaker containing one of the widest and most uniform midrange and treble dispersion of any forward-facing loudspeaker ever designed for home sound reproduction.
The acoustically sealed, heavily braced (nine internal braces screwed and glued to the inside of the cabinet) and critically damped (the "Q" of the AR-3a is 0.9 - 1.0) AR-3a enclosure volume is 1.7 cu. ft., which is optimal for the 41-43 Hz resonance frequency, and the woofer’s suspension restoring force ratio is approximately 85% acoustic and 15% mechanical, far greater than nearly all current consumer loudspeakers using the a/s design. For this reason—and the basic design of the motor system in the AR woofer—the AR-3a has much lower harmonic distortion than any conventional, current-design loudspeaker of a comparable size. Julian Hirsch measured the woofer’s harmonic distortion at a power level ten-times higher than usual test input voltages, and the distortion in the AR-3a’s woofer was under 9% at 20 Hz, setting a new standard of low distortion, especially at this high-power testing.
The woofer used in this pair of AR-3a speakers has a large 9.6 lb Alnico-5 magnet assembly, cast-aluminum frame and a long-throw, 2-inch heavy copper voice coil with a linear excursion of 5/8-inch and a maximum physical excursion of 1.2 inches. The midrange driver has a 1½-inch treated-cloth dome (hemispherical) diaphragm with 1½-inch copper voice coil on an aluminum former assembly. The midrange driver is critically damped with fiberglass pads under and above the dome assembly itself. The magnet assembly is a large ferrite unit. The AR-3a tweeter uses a ¾-inch treated-paper dome diaphragm—similar to the original AR-3 phenolic-dome tweeter—suspended by urethane-polymer foam pieces in the outside portion of the voice coil with a layer of clear butyl-rubber sealing the outside of the magnetic gap. The magnet assembly is ferrite. The drivers have LCR crossover frequencies of 575 Hz and 5,000 Hz.
The speaker’s impedance ranges from 2.7 – 4.9 ohms, and the speaker is approximately 0.5% efficient, meaning that an amplifier capable of at least 30-50 watts-per-channel into 4 ohms is the minimum suitable power. The AR-3a physical dimensions are 14” x 25” x 11-3/8.” The AR-3a’s net weight, each, unboxed, is 54 lbs., and in the double shipping carton 64 lbs gross."
SVS 3000 Micro – a great choice, fast and punchy. You might consider adding an isolation platform to mitigate noise, as you were initially concerned. Enjoy.
@grislybuttermy new cartidge for my MP-150 should be here tomorrow. I'm popping it on and ensuring my tonearm adjustments immediately, then going to toss something like early Dream Theater on to see if things sound different.
@travelinjackit's funny you mention the SVS 3000 Micro because I am thinking about getting it! It has good reviews, it has come up in a lot of research I've done, and even Crutchfield rep recommended it when I talked to them.
The rep also said that I shouldn't have to worry about my cabinet vibrating with this little sub either, but if it does I can just add some isolation feet on it.
If the sub does vibrate my cabinet, would it be insane to put the sub to the SIDE of my cabinet? That would mean it wouldn't be between where my two bookshelf speakers are... but that's the best I could do since I cannot put it behind or in front of my little Ikea Kallax cabinet.
@vrikkianI have been following this thread for the week and am kind of surprised that a near field set up has not been suggested. There is a lot of info out there and Cardas has been documented having some set up perimeters, which more or less take the room out of the equation. Enjoy the music
@immatthewj*L* Been in a couple of versions of garages, instrument shops, and
'pop-up' "chops" displays of varied talentry.....
Never got offered a donut...lots of other 'things', the occasional 'private session' to apply my drumstick.... but that's not stories for strangers than myself.... ;)
Get a measurement microphone to optimize speaker position, toe in, and listening position. In reality most living spaces aren't very flexible but addressing room issues always trumps gear upgrades imo.
@vrikkian You can play with subwoofer placement since deep bass is somewhat omni-directional. I use a SB-2000 non-Pro along with Revel F208 mains in a high rise apartment tower and have never had any complaints. That said, I don't play music at late hours either. If space is a major issue then maybe the SVS 3000 Micro would work but I still feel like the SB-2000 Pro is the sweet spot for price/performance.
Nice work, OP! 👍 You were mentioning sub placenent etc. If there's a way to localized your sub(s) near your listening position, that would be huge for you in not annoying your neighbors. And I agree multiple smaller subs is probably the way to go unless your townhouse has really good sound isolation or you have an additional room between your listening room and your neighbor. If you play at a reasonable volume, sub is the #1 upgrade by far for reasons already stated.
Secondly, yes room treatment. First reflections is huge. Not that difficult. Can DIY or have a company like gik acoustics build them for you
I would look at a subwoofer with a sealed enclosure, NOT ported, to mitigate boominess in your long, narrow room.
If your Focals roll off at 55 Hz, then you're probably good crossing over your sub at 60 Hz.
Since bass is non-directional below 80 Hz, you have a lot of latitude as far as placing your sub in your room. That is, unlike speakers, a sub doesn't have to be anywhere in particular. Inside a cabinet is probably going to sound less than ideal though.
+1 for adding a pair of REL subwoofers. I also live in a three story townhouse and my listening space is a mere 9x9x9 converted dining nook. I recently added a pair of REL T/5X subwoofers and the sonic improvement was substantial. Besides improved bass, I experienced better highs, mids, and soundstage. A pair of REL T/5X subs retail for about 1/10th the cost of my Dynaudio stand mount speakers which makes it the best bang for buck upgrade I have made. Feel free to check out my virtual system to see how little space the REL T/5Xs take.
Listening area is 'bout 12' w x 16'+ long, 12' ish ceiling. Older Klipsch, SS amp, and a 2 table mix deck.....doubtful any 'slip-cueing' would be tolerated...😏
I'll check it out, but fear it's just going to be more loud chatting over the music since it's not 'live'.....which is typ. for any other bar & grill 'round here....🙄
While figuring out a new furniture setup to get larger speakers in your space, start auditioning some interesting finds, not to buy but to refine your preferences, listening to your Focals all the time.
Facebook Marketplace, this is speakers for sale, 100 mile radius of Baltimore, $200 to $2,100.
Don’t mistake loud volume with full range when you see large drivers.
Perhaps below are too big, but for example: I am a big fan of level controls to adjust tweeters and midrange driver levels relative to their forward firing woofer, in your space, to your and your wife’s ears, with a SPL Meter and Test Tones (no ports or like these front ports only), on stands that are slanted and toe-in away from side walls.
btw, after you finish chasing very low bass, especially in a space like yours, you realize it can be fun mud, I have my rear ports plugged in my current space, there was no wall behind them in prior space.
This is a loaded question. What is the problem you are trying to solve for?
What are you lacking? What are you missing? What can you get away with?
Honestly, with your current setup, the only thing you are really missing is lower bass. Not sure what kind of music you listen to, but there is a lot of stuff in the under 60hz range. Adding a sub will make your system fuller, richer, and sound bigger than what it is. Taking some bass out of your speakers, might also clean up the midrange, just make everything sound better.
Once you have a "full range" setup, do other upgrades from there. IMHO. none of it means all that much if you don't have a full range setup.
Next up is sound treatments, but wife approved!
Rugs, house plants, canvas wall art (stuff the backs with insulation)pillows, etc..
My room is not perfectly walled in (i.e. there's stairs that go up to the next floor at the end of one wall, plus I have bay windows so that juts out a bit), but for simplicity I'm 22.5' L, 12.5' W, and with 9.5' ceilings.
The lower-end notes are lacking—consider adding a subwoofer. Specifically, a sub with an 8 inch driver and tight control, like the REL T/5x or T/7x, which will be fast enough to keep up with the main speakers
adjacent apartments is another advantage of concentrating your directionality which minimizes content reaching floor/ceiling/side walls, and allows lower overall volume to be heard clearly.
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