What Power Cords for Rel S510 Subs?

I am equally interested in this. Similarly I am a firm believer of power cords. I have good cords on my equipment. The power cord that’s connected to the DAC in my system is actually more costly than the DAC, as crazy as it may sound.

The current power cord on my REL S510 costs about $150. I am not sure if a $1,000 Furutech cord will bring noticeable gains in the bass department.

@ryder my Audioquest Dragon power cord powering my amp costed me more than my recent purchase of my B&W 802 D2 speakers, purchased used but in mint condition. I specifically chose these after finding I wasn’t a fan of any new speakers in my area (including $50k speakers). Seems crazy but the Dragon cord was worth it.

I have a sinking feeling the same principle applies to subs, and high quality cords need to be considered…

I have found that an upgrade in power cords improved my pair of REL T7i subwoofers. I did not go crazy I simply upgraded to a 10awg 99.99% pure OFC copper using a good IEC and AC plug, all cryo treated.

these are actually amazing at many times the price, and are returnable

I have one on my power conditioner to wall and it was so good, I quickly bought another for my amp. Now, this model may be out stock, but, the black jacket might be even better for subs

REL user-PC’s didn’t offer any significant SQ difference compared to setup-location and attention to settings.

The supplied, rubber MIC(made in China) PC did what it’s supposed to do-supply power. I do use Nordost, since it’s what’s plumbing the rig.

Waste of money otherwise-IMO

I experienced a noticeable improvement when I replaced the stock cord on my REL S5/SHO with a Cerious GE Blue...which I already owned, but wasn’t currently using...they cost about $350 new, manufacturer direct...

I tested this with a Pangea 9awg cord on a REL 328-R. Couldn't hear a difference after an hour of back and forth testing. So, I wrote to REL. REL reported to me, when I asked, that they did testing and third party cords didn't make any difference. Others hear may disagree, but the fact that REL tested this put the issue to bed for me.

I only have experience with Shunyata.  I use the Everest power conditioner with a 20Amp Sigma power cable to a Shunyata outlet and Sigma NR to components, but Venom NR to a pair of RELS/812s.  My RELs cross around 25Hz, so they only do very lowest octave duty.  The real key to this system is the momentary 30Amps that the Everest can supply to each of six outlets and the NR ..noise reduction power cords.  All interconnects, including speaker cable is from Audioquest.  So, subs get a good cable, but not one of the bests.

@vonhelmholtz , your cords are comparable grade to my system’s cords so I am very interested in your results.  I see your subs don’t get the best cords, but did you TRY your subs with a Sigma NR to see if there is an improvement over the venom?    Second thing I’d be curious about is if you noticed an improvement with the Venom cords over a lower grade cord?

thanks!

What price is the improvement.   I found proper setup/source components, etc. made a bigger difference.  Is an improvement a difference in sound or an actual improvement.  Carnegie Hall to Allice Tulley Hall in New York.....the same orchestra playing in each sound ...what is an improvement and where is it.

My speakers are Sabrina X and I currently have Venom. They will be replaced tomorrow with Venom NR. The contribution from my subs are intentionally limited. If I raise the volume, or crossover point, the Sabrinas get a bit muddy. Honestly, I never removed the REL power cables from their plastic bag. I just started building this system a few months ago, so for me I have other $ priorities..like a much higher end phono preamp. I won’t be putting more money into my subs. PM me and I can connect you with my salesperson that can usually provide 60 day in home returns, plus good pricing and you can do the A/B yourself. All my interconnect are AQ.. BTW..The power conditioner was the most critical component in my system.  Room treatment equally critical.

Or support an American small business like Signal  Cable. 

Perfect for a subwoofer.  I use the Silver Resolution on all my components except my DAC and CD Transport there I am using the MagicPower Digital Reference.  

Also check out Zavfino USA. I have their speaker cables and interconnects. Top shelf stuff.

http://signalcable.com/magicpower.html

@vonhelmholtz nice system.  I like Wilson speakers a lot.  i am not looking for bone rattling bass.  Just a bit of added support for my B&W 802's, in my large room with high ceilings.

I think how you described the setup of your Rel's is exactly how you are supposed to have them set up.  Crossover set lower to seamlessly integrate, with subtle boosting of the low end.

Are you finding your Rel's to fill in the lower frequencies sufficiently?  Or are  you finding that your Sabrina X's are still thin in their lower range, before the Rel's kick in?  Do the Rel's seem to integrate well and provide the bass energy and extension you were after, or do you think the bass could have been better somehow?

My primary speakers were not really lacking anything, but with the RELs when I play The Doors, Cantate Domino, or many jazz pieces, the reproduction is fuller with more impact. My room isn’t that large..12.5x23x10 and the room is on the second floor, so I had big problems with bass/cartridge interaction. After nine large bass traps, I finally managed to get this mostly under control. I have a four shelf 3" Tiger Maple equipment stand coming and I hope this, along with the 108 pd integrated amp will take care of any remaining bass issues.

I replaced the power cord on my s/812 with synergistic research. I also did the same with the fuse. I added a SR ground wire from the sub to my ground block as well. I have my whole rig set up this way and its amazeballz

@nyev 

I have the S510 as well. What are you using for a connection? Fwiw, If you haven’t upgraded the speakon, I highly recommend starting there 1st. I upgraded to a Signal Cable speakon cable and a Virtual Dynamics Power 3 pc. My reference bass tracks are Tool “chocolate chip trip” for TIGHT donkey kick bass and “Ice Pick Mike” (track 3) off the Bullitt soundtrack for bass depth. I tend to over use the term, but the Signal cable gave the bass more “weight”. Whereas it’s kinda difficult to describe what the Virtual Dynamics did for my S510 perhaps in a word, the bass comes across both reference tracks a “cleaner” if that makes any sense.

@andrewkelley , would you share the details of how you set up your system with the common ground block?  Very interested in how this might help and if it’s worth doing.  For what it’s worth I have no issues with ground loops at this point, all my gear is connected to a Torus RM20 on a dedicated 20A line.  My subs which I haven’t got yet will go on another dedicated line.  Maybe I should pick up a second Torus for the subs and simply connect the ground terminals of the two Torus together?  Honestly I don’t know what I’m talking about on this subject.

@jl1ny , I don’t have my Rel’s yet, I’m researching first.  I was planning to go with the Rel Baseline Blue Speakon cable, one for each sub.  
 

As far as value ,the audio advisor pangea  sig using Cardas top copper 

their awg9 is a monster , or even their sig mk2 awg 14 plenty of current handling 

for around $250and use very good holdover Copper connectors, not brass .

Definiately don't spend less than $10,000 on power cords for your RELs.

Anything less and you'll be wasting your money as you won't hear any difference.

Well an older mid priced one at the time that was exceptional  on bass and in my opinion  messed up the midrange  was a cards cross the black jacketed one. Lol you are going to have to look for a prehistoric  one. This would be from. The early days of power cords. It made bass and lots of it that was tuneful.  Had it on the bass amp in an actively  blamed moon Maggie setup. Sold it to a home theatre  guy for hos sub. He disliked cards until he herd  that on his sub. Personally  I doubt you would have to pay a hundred  for it. 

Definiately don't spend less than $10,000 on power cords for your RELs.

Anything less and you'll be wasting your money as you won't hear any difference.

Have you used high end power cables and listened to see if it makes a difference?  Personally, I don't think that subwoofers are a good place to start.  Is your prejudice against changing out power cords due to experience, or intellectual prejudice?

First  off I don't run subs on two channel  and I don't have  that  hi dollar home theatre  setup ok but bot truly high end keep that in mind about the following  comments. 

On the cheap sub in my tv/ home theatre  I had some free pos on the sub for the interconnect.  I wired a actinote  powercord  into the powered amp. On that cord I put a connex  plug onto it. I got a 10 foot dhlabs  subsonic  interconnect to run the the sub (biggest difference) I ended up with much deeper bass at a righer volume  and tuneful bass not car audio bass. So basically  my opinion  it is more than worth it to go on the hunt  for a  powercord. I generally  think that the bottom wire in most lines is a big improvement  the mid wire is lots better in some areas and not good top to bottom.  And the high end of the lines are where I generally look for two channel.  But that being  said finding the right midrange  cord that stresses bass might be your way to get what you want for less. Now on to something  I did on my two channel  setup or the one pf them. I have a set of levinson  33h amps  down there I felt I was bass shy by abunch. Parts connection  had a sale on single outlet furutech  rhodium  receptacle s I bought a pair installed them on each of the dedicated  20 amp circuit s that power the amps. Wow did that ever change the base for they better.lol the slippery slope. I did the other receptacle s in the room one at a time and tried  different  ones ended up with the top of the line furutech  rhodium  receptacle s through  all but one receptacle.  I installed  the top of the line furutech  rhodium  plugs on the captive  cords on the amps there again deeper better  base. Anyhow  that might be a thought for you as well is a receptacle  change. 

And the farmer hauled another load away…. What S… stories let’s try basing on Scientific electronic facts not idle perhaps market imagination. Do you hear what I hear..might have it’s Gratification, but kick that in the reality butt. Utter Nonsense if nothing else perhaps for those with too much time on their hands

Cheers

And the farmer hauled another load away….

Cheers 

 Looking at some of your previous posts it seems that all you can do is tear people down and make childish remarks.   I hope you find some success in your own life so that you don't have to tear others down to feel better.

What’s childish and sad I might add, is some people fall for that crap ! Most with any degree of knowledge…don’t !! A A/C Power cord at the end of a chain changes the tone of your system what kind of magic beans crap is that…? 

OP Look at the the cables from Tom at Signal Audio.

Better build and less$$$$$

But if you listen to @1971gto455ho he will have you use lamp cord. 

http://signalcable.com/relspeakon.html

Truth is 14 gauge ( lamp cord style ) will do the job as well as 90% of the crap out there. And it doesn’t matter what anyone tells ya…that’s why there’s such a massive market of junk out there all pining for your bucks. 

Truth is 14 gauge ( lamp cord style ) will do the job as well as 90% of the crap out there. And it doesn’t matter what anyone tells ya…that’s why there’s such a massive market of junk out there all pining for your bucks.

A A/C Power cord at the end of a chain changes the tone of your system what kind of magic beans crap is that…? 

Which is it?

So, why doesn’t 14 ga lamp cord work as well as 100% of what is out there?

@vonhelmholtz Please do not feed the troll. I know I did and should have just kept walking. 

Might be a filter or gadget of sorts wired in there that may or may not make a noise difference. Perhaps 10% is a bit optimistic. Lol

08-15-2022 at 10:43am 

@vonhelmholtz Please do not feed the troll. I know I did and should have just kept walking. 

Good advice..

@juanmanuelfangioii 

Name calling… nasty. Should one not like an opinion perhaps that individual should just..book off. Do the tunes however you have it wired in, and as with any should, drop the coin on whatever you please. I believe in free speech, and realize at times the truth does hurt.

@nyev 

check it out 

https://www.synergisticresearch.com/isolation/ground-isolation/active-ground-block-se/

@hilde45

... I wrote to REL. REL reported to me, when I asked, that they did testing and third party cords didn’t make any difference. Others hear may disagree, but the fact that REL tested this put the issue to bed for me.

@nyev - IMHO maybe you should consider listening to what REL, the manufacturer of the subwoofer recommends. They may actually know more (by about 1,000 times) about what they are advising and care that their customers get the most out of their subwoofers.

If it walks like a duck.

Also your retort is jibberish.

@jetter +1

REL seems like a reputable company that makes a great product. Trust and customer satisfaction are key to their success. Lying to customers about a power cord would be beyond stupid. They wouldn't do that.

Do the tunes however you have it wired in, and as with any should, drop the coin on whatever you please. I believe in free speech, and realize at times the truth does hurt.

Nope @jetter was referring to the above gibberish. But if you want to get lumped in I can, and I know it is gibberish. You also think highly of yourself. No? 

@juanmanuelfangioii

You also think highly of yourself. No?

Actually no, I don’t think so highly of myself that I can’t say sorry, my bad.  So deleting my prior post.

As a point of reference, I have aftermarket PCs on all my equipment except my two SVS subwoofers, including a new Zavfino Fina PC on my pre.  Like you mentioned in another thread, the packaging is over the top impressive, as is the build quality of the PC.

it seems most manufacturers do not recommend third party cables and cords, though they don't use their stock cables in their rooms at hifi shows...maybe they don't want to tell customers extra cost will be needed, and don't want to recommend a brand that many of their dealers do not carry...it's interesting to follow what cables they use at shows and in their in house listening rooms...

@jetter and I deleted my snarky response.

Have a great rest of your day. 

As one who has heard, in blind tests, the difference between PCs, I am more than a bit dubious as to how a much better PC would make a difference on subs.

The reason why I say this, is because ALL the differences I've heard in PCs, is with subtle spatial cues (ambience, soundstage depth and width, image specificity within the soundstage, etc).

So, from my experience, I am not seeing where a high end PC would make a difference. 

Ok..listening to my new favorite artist/recording, "Dreams and Daggers", featuring the absolutely amazing Cecile McLorin Salvant..a 15 on a scale of 10.

Great bass..texture, nuance, dynamic..and yes..my upgrade from Venom to Venom NR improved the clarity/speed..of the bass and I think the NR helped clear up the mid frequencies..which I didn’t realize that they needed greater clarity..What an album..I’m purchasing a second copy and putting it away.

@vonhelmholtz I will give Dreams and Daggers a listen.  Thanks for the tip!

I don’t doubt that bass definition and speed can help with subs.  @simonmoon , I know exactly what you mean about power cords impacting ambience, soundstage depth etc.  That’s what I have heard too.  But I also found that in my case, these were the most striking and noticeable differences.  I found if you really focus, you hear pretty big differences in bass presentation as well, but it’s simply not what jumps out the most.  I even found that with some high end cables bass energy was reduced (Valhalla 2 PC).

I pretty much expect the trolls to emerge whenever posting about cables, lol!!! Trolls are part of the fun. But I also think there are some who legitimately can’t wrap their heads around how better cables can help. These folks simply are new to the discussion and can’t figure out how “the last few feet of power can make a difference when the power has travelled hundreds of miles” etc. I actually just happened on a post where someone was stating all of the usual arguments, posting links to support their case, telling everyone not to waste their money. He was not a troll, but just new to the age-old debate. Others challenged him to go hear the difference himself, and to his credit, he agreed. He clearly stated his plan for the test, and was ready to come back and say he was right. Again, to his credit, he reported back saying he clearly heard the difference a better power cord made, and indicated that he was dumbfounded as to how it could possibly make a difference. He then said “I was wrong”. Something you don’t normally hear at the end of internet debates!

So not every anti-cable poster is a troll. I completely agree it goes against common sense for a power cord to make a difference. And, don’t get me started on USB cords…. It doesn’t make any sense at all, but they make a difference! Tested the very expensive Nordost Valhalla 2 USB cord and yes it does improve the mids and treble.  Bass definition was also better, however overall bass energy was reduced.  Much like the Nordost Valhalla 2 power cord actually.  This is in comparison to my much less expensive Audioquest Diamond USB.  In the end I found the improvement to be too minimal for the silly cost, and stuck with my Audioquest’s which are decent.  Of note, the length of the cord makes a massive impact and not in the way you think.  Longer than 1m gives much, much better performance for both USB and power cords in my experience.

@nyev 

What other speaker brands did you audition before you bought your B&W s? 

Another elongated story void of fact, just a worded story… fact of the matter is there’s no science !!! The overwhelming majority of electricians and highly trained electronic specialists laugh at this garbage. So diddly wad says he hears a difference who cares, One in thousands. I can say I have a degree along with an engineer in the family and am privy to a Studio with many a thousand dollars worth of diagnostic equipment….will you listen to my story ? So the mud slinging continues the BS flows freely and people make money !

Cheers