As a listener, when I think of all the live music I've heard, there's such an enormous degree of variation that I have great difficulty imagining how all of that could possibly be encompassed accurately by one system. But then, I don't have your experience/expertise.
What Meatloaf and Beer Have Taught me about Audiophiles
Recently in life and online I've had some curious observations about human behavior I thought I'd share. To begin with, I have recently discovered that a surprising number of My Fellow Americans do not like meatloaf. As a meatloaf maker and meatloaf cognoscenti I was absolutely astonished at this. Some people who otherwise like burgers and the like hate meatloaf.
If you make meatloaf and love it your immediate reaction to this is "but you haven't tried _my_ meatloaf." That's our natural knee jerk reaction because we just can't imagine. Related to this I have a bartender. We'll call him Calhoun because his name is Calhoun. An otherwise respectable fellow who knows beer and tequila better than most. I would go in to see what the latest rotation of Indian Pale Ales were. About once a month they'd get some new "dessert beer." That is a brew made to taste like a sweet food substance. The least offensive of which were peanut butter and the worst strawberry shortcake beer. Calhoun would proceed to push me to sample these unholy abominations every time he could.
Of course I'd tell him "I don't like flavored beers." Which was partially a lie as a coffee or espresso flavored beer would probably be divine.. but we digress.
Sometimes he was so adamant that the latest beer flavor was the one that would change my mind I'd go ahead and try them. Of course, they were invariably disgusting.
My point to all this is that being on both sides of this argument. It's really hard to accept that our fellow audiophiles don't like something we feel is sublime and we will push our fancies onto them in the hopes of enriching their lives for the better. It's hard for us to respect that someone else can love music and the stereos that play it and yet not have found their happy place the same way we have.
By the way, I use the Betty Crocker meatloaf recipe and add a tablespoon of chipotle powder. Amazing.
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Interested to hear the findings. I still have an original Chord Mojo that I use along with the Tempotec. The Mojo cost about 5x or so as much. The two sound way different. Mojo is warmer sounding. Tempotec delivers all the details better and is not warm sounding at all. Probably more neutral. Features do matter and are different of course. |
@tubeguy76 Maybe it's like sausage in restaurant culture, customers can't see what goes in so they make shortcuts. Now I am hungry. |
Because soup was mentioned I'll share my favorite: Mulligatawny soup. If you haven't heard of it, there are a lot of variations. I like the one that has sweet potatoes and apples in it. It's to die for! Don't skimp on the directions. The spices MUST be bloomed. Even my grandkids wolf it down. Happy listening and eating! Joe. |
I've been a vegan for nearly two decades but I still miss certain animal flesh foods. Back in the day I really enjoyed meatloaf. My Mom would make meatloaf with a mixture of beef, pork and veal with her home made tomato sauce which was absolutely delicious. A less health friendly meatloaf was a beef, pork and veal mixture with ketchup and mustard. It was good but I preferred the original by a significant margin. Of course mashed potatoes and green peas were the perfect complement for such a tasty meal. 👍 |
There is likely other things also wrong with someone who doesn’t like meatloaf. There are soooo many possible meatloaf recipes how is it possible that not al least one recipe would please even the most PIA of food critics? In my experience as a tested, unwavering and committed consumer of beer I find bad beer is most rare with the clear exception, however, of fruit/peanut butter, etc. flavored beer. The peanut butter flavored beer drinker is also likely to be the one who can't find a meatloaf he/she likes. |
@curiousjim yes |
A’gon is being buggy in a lot of ways including messaging. Leave me a comment on my blog, which won’t show up publicly because it’s moderated and I’ll get back to you.
https://speakermakersjourney.blogspot.com/2025/04/speaker-diagnosing-and-impedance.html |
That is what I mean... knowing what the real thing sounds like. However, you are making it sound way harder than it is. One listens to lots of live music, individual instruments, in small combinations, in concert halls. Sure they are all different, but the mind is a wonderful thing, you can hear and learn what differences in location in a concert hall sound like, what different concert halls sound like. What pianos sound like, violins, echos in halls. I have heard a number of Stradivarius violins from twenty feet... they are unique... unbelievably sweet. I can hear them in recordings nearly instantly. I have been to hundreds of symphony concerts... some in different concert halls. Small venue jazz, as well as Rock and other electronic music concerts. I know what the real thing sounds like. Then I have applied that general knowledge to curate my system. The fanatic part comes in the willingness to pursue understanding the real thing and in endlessly evaluating equipment an getting ever closer to the real experience... music that emotionally pulls you into the experience like the real instruments are there. Will audiophile does not require lots of investment... folks this dedicated to a pursuit tend to spend a lot... it part of the disease. But just putting together a bunch of powerful or flashy audio equipment, or stacks of subwoofers does not make an audiophile... There are lots of way to enjoy the pursuit of high end audio... home audio.
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I wish you a chocolate heart for your generosity and a chocolate smiley for your humor... Happy Easter!
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My wife dont like very much meatloaf but i like it to death. She cooked them for me... She improvise the recipe with the meat she have at hand this day and some basic... It is always delicious hot with sauce or cold in sandwich... As meatloaf all system are different for different needs and ingredients available... But as basic cooking acoustics had its principle we must go with as with meatloaf recipe which differ but with the same basics...
I will ask my wife for meatloaf this week... I did not know till today if i prefer it hot or cold... But i prefer my audio system hot.... Happy Easter and Happy meat loaf!
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A treatise on the creation of the name "India Pale Ale"
https://beerconnoisseur.com/articles/complete-truth-about-origins-india-pale-ale-ipa |
Same experience, I wonder why they can't get it right but when I make it at home, it's always fantastic. |
Hey Eric... thanks for the great little essay on a vitally important subject. Not the anyone cares but I like meatloaf as long as it's not too greasy. A delicacy indeed. Beer is great as long as it's beer and has a good bit of flavor, not IPA or something else. However, and despite your elegant transition, beer and meatloaf are not to be taken together. Beer is for pizza and Blue Crabs. A nice, not overly expensive red wine matches the glorious meatloaf's beefy flavor. Time for some music. Best... |
https://forum.audiogon.com/posts/2796248 As far as I know it is "India" pale ale. My first beer sample when young - I HATED it and didn't start drinking for many years after. Then I made up for lost time and then stopped drinking 8 years ago. Having said that, there is a non-alcoholic pale ale made in CT that is outstanding. Now, back to meatloaf! Borrowing from Homer, I'll have the meatloaf - and to drink? Meatballs! |
If you choose a particular seat in a particular venue, listen to a particular orchestra, and use it as the primary reference/baseline for your home system, that I can grasp (at least conceptually). But to speak of "live music" as if it’s one thing, instead of countless performances by countless artists in different genres in countless venues with what can be wildly differing sonics, yes-- that seems crazy. One might as well say one is trying to reproduce restaurant food at home. |
@erik_squires 👏✨👍😎 Obviously you hit a common nerve that didn't hurt.... Quite the contrary.. Genius Perfect timing to start the weekend with, besides giving everyone to go off the rails if only for the while. And the nerve being we're all the same in having more than one preference and expectations as to where 'Absolute Bliss' grinds down to 'That that we take the hose to dissolve It'. A tiny slice of human pie chart. The bulk of us have never met in person, but we've this vague image of each other that very likely has zilch in real time. Anyway, Bravo! ...keep 'm coming. ;) What conditions my systems recognize: - AVL was a recent beer capital and it's only growing like the fungus in The Last Of Us....The latest is dedicating the South Slope of our downtown to the breweries. I've no clue if they're ruining what are good to begin with adulterants of nearly anything you'd love or puke from. I'm one to agree with a party participant back in Houston that "...light beer is a crime against humanity!" Well put. - I like black licorice....had some ice cream of that back in Oakland that was from an creamer that did custom short runs for the local swank restaurateurs... - Spouse Evelyn makes a beef/turkey/pork meatloaf that's better than my mothers'. Ev's is killer. Of course you are... Have an excellent weekend, J
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I have had meatloaf in a 5 star restaurant and it was dang fine indeed. I have recently been enjoying my wife's organic ground turkey meatloaf and it is right up there, that good. I was doing a beer app at one time and tried, far more than one each, 600 new to me beers in one year and many were awful no matter how expensive or highly praised and only a few were outstanding. I like your analogy as it makes sense, we all have different taste based on our individual lifetimes of culture, exposure, and I think just plain differences in our DNA. I have since stopped drinking alcohol, 17 months and not a drop and do not miss it. Part of that is having kidney issues and also after a lot of research finding out how beer, wine and others have some seriously unhealthy ingredients in them and not regulated or have to tell us about it. I am finding I just do not care to drink any longer and likely never will again. Same goes for audio, makes sense, we all are a big different in our perception and taste, if one can be happy with a low budget system, great for them, if another loved to go after the best, to them, they can no matter the cost, great as well. Rick |
Meatloaf rocks! Best restaurant meatloaf I had was at the Collegiate, aka the Jet, in Alfred, NY, in 2019. A thick generous serving with a buttery mushroom gravy, amazing mash potatoes and a choice of veggies. With a huge apple pie ala mode, $20.
This thread reminds me of Jerry Garcia’s description of the Grateful Dead-"Not everybody likes licorice, but the people who like licorice really like licorice.” Pass the ketchup, please.
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@misc-audio. Easily the best damn post I’ve ever seen on this forum. Meatloaf? Love meatloaf, even bad meatloaf! IPA’s? Who ever thought of that junk? Hipsters? Well, yeah! Adding crap to beer? Well, then you just don’t like beer! Not to say others can disagree, but what audiophile doesn’t? Comparing meatloaf to audiophilia is a genius touch….the IPA gambit is something else. Highest praises here! |
Food for thought. I like meatloaf, but l don’t make a meal if it. This post is just nuts…….. l had to double check l was still on the right site and double check…..yes you read that right, right?
And after reading all this l think l need a drink. Seriously this has been so funny and has made my day.
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