What is the Silliest Accessory You Have Ever Seen.
I was flipping through the accessory pages at the Cable Company and came up with this https://www.thecableco.com/hallograph.html You have to be kidding me. Of all the dumb, idiotic, profoundly stupid things I have ever seen. The marketing is even better! Have you seen anything worse! It is up to us to uncover these things for what they are, SCAMS.
@mahghister appears to read into posts what he wishes, either to stoke his outrage and/or stroke his bias,
a kind of multicellular Helmholtz resonators....This product was just
bashed by another fellow of the same species tonight who never try
one....😁
This comment was directed at me. I initially said they were essentially diffusers, then updated my comments to recognize the Helmholz resonator aspect. The diffuser aspect is exactly true (as indicated by the company who makes them). I also stated that their effectiveness as Helmholz resonators would be severely compromised by their suggested placement (basically beside the speaker, and between it and the wall) as this is not a high pressure point. People who understand bass control will recognize this to be true.
Some people are highly offended by people who are knowledgeable and speak confidently on topics they cannot. They can't fathom that others don't have to do "experiments" to know how something will or will not work. This obviously is not exclusive to high end audio, but it does appear to have an unusually high concentration.
The Argent Rooms Lens have a damped control apperture thru the bottom vent for bass control and pressure relief. My suggested placement after 20 years of use is 6 feet outside the edge of either speaker and 1 dead center of my mechanically grounded audio system..including the Room Lenses. Tom
The Argent Rooms Lens have a damped control apperture thru the bottom vent for bass control and pressure relief.
So basically a resonator.
My suggested placement after 20 years of use is 6 feet outside the edge of either speaker
Diffusion at this spot would aid in controlling first reflections.
and 1 dead center of my mechanically grounded audio system..including the Room Lenses.
Also usually a very good spot for diffusion. May provide limited bass control.
Tom, this is not meant to put down the product, but to suggest how it is likely working in your system. I expect their benefit is more from diffusion than bass control. Room measurement would show that in a few minutes, however, not placing them at max room nodes limits what they can do in the bass. I would not put these on the silly scale. I doubt they meet all their claims, but could certainly see them being useful.
@glupson, My group of people shunned the Soundcraftsman units at the time. We had already started to slide into the minimalist units without tone controls. Units like the Soundcraftsman were in part responsible for that movement as they seriously screwed up soundstaging/imaging. Now the Argent Room Lens. If one end of the pipe is open then they could function as Helmholtz resonators but I fail to understand why you would want something resonating by your speakers. As long as the pipes do not ring I suppose they could operate as diffusers at higher frequencies. They look like big door bells. They certainly have more potential to do something than the Hallographs which are too spindly to do anything. IMHO the best way to deal with room acoustics is to use directional speakers so that you do not bounce sound all over the place. Then a little absorption here and there is all you should need. In the small rooms we listen in you really want to decrease the amount of stray energy rather than redirect it. It is like clearing fog out of the way. Room treatments is another area where there is a fair amount of chicanery. Good contoured foam tiles are all you really need but unfortunately, they are not the look that some people want. You have to spend a lot more for decorator stuff that works. I am very lucky in that my wife does not mind them at all. I didn't even have to buy her flowers.
"Real scientists conduct experiments to help evaluate empirical evidence"
That may be a bit of a stretch in some areas of science. In many of them, experiments are done to evaluate hypothesis which may, or may not, be based on empirical evidence.
As it is these days, in the end something does get measured in most, if not all, experiments conducted.
I try to control the sound in my room with mostly vented anngular devices on the ceiling and on the floor to capture and redirect energy at or near my listening position. Some of these are permanently mounted some are portable. In either situation they are all direct coupled to the floor or the ceiling. No springs damper gliders no sliders..I want to keep all the energy and control its direction.
I see these angles I installed 25 yrs ago in a much better light now that I have moved ahead with an active laminar flow device that also actively treats the air..I have been doing that all along for 25 years with the passive devices I installed back then including the Argent Room Lenses. The active device now gives me more control and improved focus over the entire listening area..The only combing of the air devices I use are at the first reflection points and 3 along the 21ft wall behind the equipment and the speakers. The panels I constructed have have long hair sheeps wool suspended and covered with fabric. Foam and fiberglass sound as if I am wearing a hoodie or a toboggan. This is how I operate. Tom
... others don't have to do "experiments" to know how something will or will not work ...
Yup, that's the definition of the measurementalist. Real scientists conduct experiments to help evaluate empirical evidence.
Real scientists conduct experiments to test new science. They don't run experiments to test fundamental macro properties that were established 50-100 years ago. That is called yr. 1/2 lab course work. That is why we have acoustics simulation programs that are highly accurate. Similar to circuit simulators. Sure we build stuff and test to verify, and small parameters variations over many devices can have unexpected consequences, but the basics don't change.
Butt we also have companies design foam and fiberglass devices because they can be easily packaged boxed and shipped so when they are crushed along the way they can spring back into their contrived shape. Their existence does not confirm that there is not a better way to control and maintain live dynamics in a sound room. Same old same old crap on any given day.
If you want new and creative control over air flow high and low pressure drops look at F1 and Skunk Works. Tom
The stereo times list of wanted components listed Lejonklou Boazu integrated amplifier. The designer auditions different components down to screws, bolts and solder (based on how they effect the sound). Sounds insane, but from the reviews (read them yourself) he produces quite an interesting product.
"jperry The real scam that goes on is people commenting on products they have not heard."
I never wrote a post to condescendingly treat a group of people to be ignorant.... Like you with your attack about turntable deluded people...
I never wrote a post about a device i never experiment with, and after that ridiculizing all owners to be gullible people by principle like the OP ...
This is INSULTING to many....
My answers are always based on arguments not insult first...I dont like people who attack many in one block, turntable owners or tweakers, that makes no sense....
By the way audiodesign you never answer to argument, you distort and insult for example what frogman says...It is easy to read the posts, they are there...no shame?
Myself last day i created my own " room lens" ,because i make my own device,i dont have the luxury to be able to buy but my device WORK very audibly without any negative.....Then the original device must be really good.... I will refine mine this summer.....The hallograph is a diffuser and it probably work good also, i will made a pair this summer...
I dont have time to bash others and clothes myself with a theorem....Try to make one and speak after....
«A theorem can be a veil where to hide from reality» -Anonymus Smith
I never wrote a post about a device i never experiment with, and after that ridiculizing all owners to be gullible people by principle like some ...
This is INSULTING to many....
Exactly why I ask that the whole thread be removed. Its only reason for being is to insult. Not anything constructive about it at all. Just plain flat out direct ridicule. Not even based on any actual experience. Just that it looks silly. Which as I pointed out right away, if you know anything at all about sound then its bound to work as a diffuser. Whether it works or not, how effective it is for the price, don’t know. Haven’t the foggiest. But I do know its definitely not silly. It is in fact grounded in acoustic science.
So the OP is not only insulting, but ignorant. Childish. Its been pointed out, but he persists. So also arrogant. Deserves more than anything a time out. Can’t get one from the whole site, mods seem to encourage this sort of antisocial behavior. But he can get one from me.
Right. Lets say cleeds (this is just an example) says mahgister saw a Sherman tank fly. I take a look at a picture of a Sherman tank and reply that mahgister is hallucinating again. We have to increase his thorazine dose. Cleeds replys, "How can you say that? You just saw a picture!" Now I know darn well that unless he is back on the sauce again, cleeds can look at a picture of a Sherman tank and know for an absolute fact that that thing ain't flying. He is just pulling my leg for fun. Well folks, some of us are gifted and can tell by looking at some things that they are absolutely not suited for the suggested purpose. We do not have to go through the ordeal of a blinded AB comparison. If you want to prove to me that something sounds better you have to show me the blinded AB comparison study with at least 10 subjects. Otherwise, it is just an opinion and when it comes to audio the opinions of strangers are close to worthless. There are times when you can't even trust your own opinion.
Must i analyse for others to see point by point the stupidity of this post and self defense?
You protest that you are not only a sceptic, but it is only impossible to convince you even by your own experience ...
A blind test perhaps will … 😊
why then accusing others to be gullible about the product they experience and are happy with?
Because they are not imbued with the same "scientist" blinders than you?
Ok i understand it is "science" for you..... All the others who buy anything are gullible but not you, you are a "scientist"...
This is so condescendingly stupid my arms falls
Well folks, some of us are gifted and can tell by looking at some things that they are absolutely not suited for the suggested purpose.
read your line....
I myself was in the obligation to try the "room lens" to verify some of his audible effect but not you....
You are born with infused science....
Mijostyn read your line and think.....Instead of making sarcasm....
There is only one thing i dont understand here....why some people are not ashame to put themselves in the corner with the most evident affirmative stupidity? Some of them are "gifted "indeed...
Another thing to think about is the way those who first insulted a distictive group of people after that feel insulted if we turn their nose in the own vomit deconstructing their vicious circles....
Well folks, some of us are gifted and can tell by looking at some things that they are absolutely not suited for the suggested purpose.
millercabon, I'm surprised! You can't tell that a Sherman tank can't fly? Oh, your insulted. I'm terribly sorry I insulted you. That was not the intension. I apologize. Really.
You would think that the shatzki hallograph would at least have a bold "satisfaction gurantee" return for full refund within 30 days"...you know after a breakin period;-)
Mahgister, well said. audio2design,glupson, myself and a few others are "stupid." I am getting good at this trolling stuff. I may be stupid but I am certainly not defensive. Maybe you and millercarbon should go out and get a drink together. Cool off. Talk about the old days when you could tweak yourself silly and everyone would just ogle at the genius of it all.
Mahgister, well said. audio2design,glupson, myself and a few others are "stupid."
I know very well that glupson is not stupid and more cautious than you, then dont put words in my mouth ... I dont know the "few others" , i speak to YOU then why invoking others?
Even audiodesign spoke more cautiously about the"room lens" without bashing it because he did not try it he did never pretend to have a "gift"... Then dont implicate audiodesign about this tweak thread.... we dont dicuss about the Digital " truth" here....
I spoke about YOU and answered to YOUR post in this thread....i dont speak about all sceptics... I am myself a sceptic by the way not a silly one tough....Dont implicate others behind you that have nothing to do with my answering to your affirmation...
I speak about the silly sceptic who said this:
Well folks, some of us are gifted and can tell by looking at some things that they are absolutely not suited for the suggested purpose.
And like the last times, when you dont had any argument, you assimiliate me to somebody else you hate...And never apologize...
Maybe you and millercarbon should go out and get a drink together.
I am not in the hate business...I hate nobody here but i cannot stand at all someone insulting indiscriminately a group of people with no sound reason at all....
I only dont like to bash group of people like you did without any other reason than your "Gift"...
Your way toward me just right now in this post are despicable...
Answer to my arguments, and dont assimilate me to others and dont put others (glupson) to stand the pressure for you and to be divisive....
Talk about the old days when you could tweak yourself silly and everyone would just ogle at the genius of it all.
is this an argument?
No shame, no argument, unable to speak for yourself and cowardly invoking others at your rescue who has nothing to do with YOUR POSTS...You want to be divisive because you dont have any arguments....
I dont see the necessity to discuss more....
You already said that you dont want to read my posts, please dont read them anymore....Thanks....
Lets say cleeds (this is just an example) says mahgister saw a Sherman
tank fly. I take a look at a picture of a Sherman tank and reply that
mahgister is hallucinating again ... Cleeds replys, "How can you say that? You just saw a picture!".. cleeds can
look at a picture of a Sherman tank and know for an absolute fact that
that thing ain't flying ... some of us are gifted and can tell by looking at some things that
they are absolutely not suited for the suggested purpose.
Logical fallacies: excluded middle and
reductio ad absurdum.
If you want to
prove to me that something sounds better you have to show me the
blinded AB comparison study with at least 10 subjects ...
This is a hobbyist's group, not a scientific forum. No one here has to prove anything to you or anyone else. If you seek double-blind test studies, you're in the wrong place - unless you're just here to argue.
As an attempt to bring this back on topic, I would say the Hallograph is maybe not the silliest accessory I have ever seen. That might be the little saucer things Geoff sent me as a prize for answering one of his questions correctly, but even that may not be THE silliest. I would probably try and lump some of them into sort of a "top 10" list since silly is in the ear, eye, or wallet of the beholder. One thing I can say about the Shakti folks, those electromagnetic stabilizers (aka "the Stone") have held their value better than any audiophile "accessory" I have ever owned. Considering what I purchased them for years ago, I could sell them today for more. Almost as good as buying bonds and better than a savings account....however, if I were really smart, I would have sold them a year ago and purchased Tesla or bitcoin!
To you and others, what may appear perfectly possible, is totally absurd to the rest of us. That you don’t know it is absurd does not make it any less absurd, it just means you don’t possess the knowledge to know it is absurd
said audiodesign...before he erase his post....
FIRST-what we know or did not know MUST not interpose itself in an experiment...This is a necessity and an obligation in TRUE scepticism... "scientism" is the opposite attitude...
SECOND- what someone know did not dispense him to experiment, because the state of the science is always incomplete, and the quantity of science in one head is more limited than the actual scientific kowledge on earth...(except for Mijostyn who is "gifted")
THIRD what appear absurd to one does not implicate a total and proven absurdity...Logic does not replace experience and experiment, and for example acoustic is a PRACTICAL science like medecine based on facts and theory but in dire need of experiments ....
FOURTH the argument saying that: US we know it is absurd, we see it, but NOT YOU, makes absolutely no sense in an experiment...
FIFTH audio like acoustic is an experimental science...audio is a mix of science, new tech, and experiments at the intersection of many sciences and tech......
SIXTH i cannot fathom for myself the fact that an engineer like you is unable to know that his posting argument is only a vicious circle...
EXAMPLE:
i just corrected for the better in my room, the tube pipes sold under the name "Lensroom". I did it 2 hours ago...It is AN EXPERIMENT....No judgement about "lensroom" can replace the modification or say something about it.. Any small room has a geometry, a topology and a content with various materials with various acoustical properties,modifying the Tubes necessitate my ears...Without this complex acoustical content, without the many diffusive surface packed in my room, a calculus would do, for example in the case of helmholtz resonators in a particular big theater...Sometimes the ears do it more economically....
No a priori informed judgement can replace experiment except in the case of those calling themself "gifted"...
It seems audiodesign himself erased his post....My post was an answer to his ....You can read it in mine...
This is a phenomenal thread. Let it stay for posterity and education of future generations.
"I know very well that glupson is not stupid..."
I lived to see the day this is written on Audiogon forum.
Speaking of education, I have a minor observation for this and one more thread.
Skeptic is spelled with K, not with C. It is not an important detail, but may as well be the only useful knowledge gained here. Apart from mahgister’s comment quoted above.
tweak11,910 posts01-09-2021 9:00amThe problem here is the title with the word SEEN, instead of HEARD
I
have been using many Machina Dynamica tweak products to great effect
over a decade, including the Clever Little Clocks, and yes they too
perform as advertised. If his products don’t work for you then look to
your system, or maybe your hearing is not capable, but his products work
well
I lived to see the day this is written on Audiogon forum.
I say that because i am perfectly able to criticize myself, and without going back to our discussion in the past, i know that the main part of our divergence were based on the fact that you are" cautious" if i try to understand your perspective... Being cautious is an aspect of intelligence...
Even if i may diverge about something or even if our interpretations of something are different, the main characteristic of your objections were born in a cautious attitude... I can differ on a subject with you but i cannot reject this fact....
I dont want to go back in the past....
I prefer friendly and logical debate without attacking a group or a person or a product we dont know....
Example: all people trying the hallograph are not gullible stupid persons....
Assimilating all unusual products like the poster over me to all the others unusual one is not a cautious and intelligent attitude.... It is only a sarcastic party.... It is not my party.....I am skeptic( thanks for the correction )not stupid....
I never has taken any pleasure here to mock someone for the pleasure to do so.... But i can answer sarcasm with sarcasm...Anyway sacasm is not logic nor reason...
Skeptic in North America, sceptic in the rest of the world and off planet.
Am I allowed to put 1V across 1 ohm and say confidently I will get 1A of current or do I need to do an experiment?
When one who possesses relevant experience and "dismisses" these silly accessories, that does not mean they are claiming they will do absolutely nothing. I stated the item that started this will do "something". But doing something and meeting the outlandish claims are completely different. Of course I am quite certain the clever little clock does nothing except cleverly extract money from people. Are you not in the list bit curious why so few of these tweakish things are never demonstrated by suppliers that they unequivocally make a sonic difference? It would be so easy to show and could do nothing but increase sales. Can you imagine having a product that makes a demonstrable and obvious difference in the sound and never making a demonstration that proves the difference is obvious? Surely you must be at least a little curious why that does not occur?
Am I allowed to put 1V across 1 ohm and say confidently I will get 1A of current or do I need to do an experiment?
Using an equation of Maxwell born after Faraday experiments, to denigrate the necessity of some experiments about acoustic specific settings and particular room or for justifying something about some unusual product is a SOPHISM if it is not an electrical properties essential to the working of the product...
No single equation will never replace experiments in the interface of many techonologies and scientific domain like acoustic and audio...
By the way i never buy tweaks nor sell them... i create my own room and system at peanuts costs...I am less gullible than those who pay thousand for not always better than mine... creativity is more useful than free sarcasm...
And affirming seriously that a product which create some positive effect is a fraud because the created effect is not optimal is not an honest approach to a product to say the least... And it is a LIE if the person has never experiment the product...
EXAMPLE: I correct my homemade tubular pipe "lensroom" with gluing to the now closed aperture some straw with definite diameter and lenght , making them bottles, to improve the answer of these primitive Helmholtz resonators to the specific acoustical content of my room....
I did not bash the product under the pretext that he is not optimal for my room (even if the effect was positive immediately a refinement was possible).....i at least try it before decreting an opinion... Perhaps you are "gifted" by the unborn quality of seeing, the infuse science like someone we know ? Not me....
Are you not in the list bit curious why so few of these tweakish things are never demonstrated by suppliers that they unequivocally make a sonic difference? It would be so easy to show and could do nothing but increase sales.
It is easy to answer.... If you sell a costly electronic piece of gear in audio, do you suggest to the customer who buy with big money that your speakers or amplifiers or even dac cannot work optimally if he does not take care very specifically of the vibrations and resonance, if he dont control the noise level of the electrical grid of his house and if he dont treat and controls the acoustical settings of the room?
In a word before sellling did you say to the customer that your product out of the box will not be optimal in his working?
Do you know a seller who bother himself and the customer to do that BEFORE each purchase or even AFTER?
Why do you think all threads are about UPGRADING the piece of gear? guess why? 😁
Is it difficult to you to figure it?
a clue:
Some people with a great amount of money dont bother themselves with these details, but without money this is the ONLY way to create a hi-fi experience at low cost....NONE other way....Anyway even costly audio systems need to be mechanically electrically and acoustically embed the best way possible...
We are not all like people who can afford a tool like a costly equalizer for example, we must do it by ears, and anyway the equalizer CANNOT solve all acoustic problem this is basic acoustic....But some ignore it especially if the toy or the tool cost thousand of dollars...
@Audio2design. "Can you imagine having a product that makes a demonstrable and obvious difference in the sound and never making a demonstration that proves the difference is obvious? Surely you must be at least a little curious why that does not occur? "
Why would anyone care about such a test? If the test is positive, and there is no audible improvement, no one would care about such a product, and if the test is negative and a number of people report audible benefits, no one cares about the test.
In theory theory and practice are the same. In practice (in anything more complicated than ohms law) they are not.
Why would anyone care about such a test? If the test is positive,
and there is no audible improvement, no one would care about such a
product, and if the test is negative and a number of people report
audible benefits, no one cares about the test.
So, @tweak1 brought up the fabled Clever Little Clock earlier in this thread. The original CLC was a Timex travel alarm clock with an orange dot on the face. Something was definitely very, very clever, but it wasn’t the clock. Rivaled only by legendary products of marketing genius such as the pet rock and the Power Balance wrist band, the CLC garnered almost universal praise from both professional reviewers:
I found my entire listening experience to be much more enjoyable with the Clock in place.....Machina Dynamica sells the clock direct for $199, and it’s well worth the price.
as well as from audio aficionados such as tweek1:
I have been using many Machina Dynamica tweak products to great effect over a decade, including the Clever Little Clocks, and yes they too perform as advertised. If his products don’t work for you then look to your system, or maybe your hearing is not capable, but his products work well.
I always appreciate when any dissention is preempted by, "If you cannot hear how great this product is, the problem is either "your crappy system or your crappy hearing" or, one of my favorites, "you obviously don’t know how to listen critically."
If you do some sleuthing, you may learn the clock has origins beginning with the "Dawn of Man" and is tied to a person’s internal clock survival mechanism that helps to locate predators. The clock addresses alien time coordinates that are contained in a recording and are associated with the 4-dimensional spacetime coordinate system (x, y, z, t), where t is the time of the recording session and t-0 marks the first instant of the Big Bang. Easy peasy....pretty basic stuff. Apparently, it’s the relative difference between Past Time (i.e., recording time) and Present Time (i.e., listening time) that’s important - and that is where the CLC come in. If you happen to question the lineage of the CLC, consider that:
The Clever Little Clock is based on concepts and techniques that were developed by PWB Electronics, Leeds, England and is designed and manufactured exclusively by Machina Dynamica. The Clock I currently produce (with the permission of PWB) is an "updated" version of their original clock and takes advantage of many newer PWB concepts/products that have come along since then. May Belt of PWB Electronics provided assistance with this theory of operation.
Wow, good to know. Don’t be fooled by substitutes, and don’t be concerned about availability since there is now an Ultra Signature Version of the Clever Little Clock (a Casio with a thermometer and two
neodymium magnets!) for only $299....now that’s darn clever!
"What is the Silliest Accessory You Have Ever Seen."
Proponents are right, mijostyn formed the question wrong and it is not only because he did not put question mark at the end.
Reading about Hallographs, I get an impression they are not an accessory after all. They seem to work as a crucial, centerpiece in fact, part of an audio system. They simply do not qualify for this thread about accessories.
I need to stay up later at night, missed a lot of fun.
What is the dynamic that make us so gullible when it comes to audio quality. Why does all this junk always make things sound better and not worse. Why are there always some people who are unable to understand that their hearing, all of our hearing is excellent at playing tricks on us. Seeing is believing, but hearing is not. Hearing is a very emotional sense. If you hear danger you are in big trouble. We can see much farther away than we can hear 99.9% of the time. If you see danger coming you generally have a lot more time to deal with it. It is why we stand on two legs. Good thing Indians were scared to attack at night. Lack of understanding/knowledge and ego I think are most to blame. None of us likes to be wrong. Because most of this stuff does no harm (no benefit either) other than financial it is much harder to fault. I am lucky I suppose in that my own mistakes have always screwed things up enough to notify me that I had botched it. Certainly people with a better understanding of the science behind all of this are less susceptible to the chicanery. When dealing with strangers it is always best to proceed with a high degree of suspicion. Someone who is for real knows this and will go head over heals trying to show just how good their stuff really is at shows and such. You get up in the morning and check your email box 3/4 of it is somebody trying to scam you. It may be sad but you have to keep that in mind when dealing with strangers.
I was. Third grade elementary school math test. I got one question wrong. I am still considering psychotherapy for that trauma.
As far as "how come that tweaks are always for better" question, I asked that many times. At some point one person here, I think it was oregonpapa and, as usual, I may not be wrong, mentioned some tweak that made things worse. That was after I had asked many times the same question. I concluded that negative tweaks do exist, but do not get advertised as such that often.
I have had more negative experiences than I care to admit but usually not from "tweaks" but from poorly designed or misused equipment. I fell for the marketing. My favorite example being the Transcriptors Vestigial Tonearm. Try not to die laughing but I even tried to put a Koetsu in it and then blamed the Koetsu for poor tracking. When the right bass note came along it would pop right out of the groove. Worse it was on an LP 12. My formative years. A V15 did not even fare well in that arm.
There was always better equipment to buy. Who wanted to waste money at the margin. The really stupid stuff didn't start until the early 80's and by then I had set up over 100 systems including the entire PA system at Flagler Dog Track. Experience and reading had gotten me well up to speed. The days of falling for marketing were over.
What is the dynamic that make us so gullible when it comes to audio quality.
THe gullibility in audio is NOT reserved to a customer buying a tweak...Half truth is your prefered affirmation...
The purchase of constant upgrade by people who dont understand that we must treat and control vibrations, the electrical grid and the acoustic is also the most visible face of gullibility before upgrading .... The credulous faith in costly electronic pieces upgrades is the motor of this conditioned market...
I have had more negative experiences than I care to admit but usually not from "tweaks" but from poorly designed or misused equipment.
A little self confession can help.... Thanks for a moment of truth....especially the word " usually not" about the tweaks you tried... I dont recommend myself any "tweak" i recommend a method of listening experiments systematically in the mechanical, electrical and acoustical dimensionsof the the audio system....A single tweak is like an equalizer, a useful perhaps tool but only that, NEVER an encompassing solution... A method of listening experiments is....I hope you will learn something from me....
There was always better equipment to buy. Who wanted to waste money at the margin.
But you forget that a piece of audio or any system itself, CANNOT work optimally in non controlled environment....Then you relapse in the lazy consumer mode thinking that only MONEY can buy happiness in audio... Read philosophy that will help your bank account and help you to think like when you were younger and poor, about how to help yourself in audio without buying too much or even almost without buying anything ....
Who is more gullible at the end, me with my peanuts costs "room lens" i improved and corrected yesterday for my room with success or you, with your illusory blind faith that a costly equalizer is THE solution for ALL acoustic problem and not only a tool among other like a Helmholtz bottle for example, which is what a "room lens" is ?
But is "an equalizers owners club" constituted a hobby? Like someone, myself, who for hobby use many other tools of his own making ? the answer is yes.... Then why criticizing and mocking other people different hobby with your posts?
The days of falling for marketing were over.
You begin to understand after throwing big money in your system and now how can someone must admit that audiophile experiences dont necessarily cost a big amount, modulo some experiments and simple devices? it will be admitting your own gullibality....Easy to understand your faith in scientism and consumer market....
Why does all this junk always make things sound better and not worse.
Another half truth.... Stupidity is easy to correct we only need to look for the missing piece... The main reasons, i cannot detail all the stage of 2 years of experiments and trials here are easy to understand ANY set of experiments is constitued by rectified errors........ This is the INCREMENTAL process that give a constant improvement after a set of trials....Qualifiying "junk" for example a plumber pipe i used to replicate an helmholtz bottle is bad faith....
But sometimes some mistake must be communicated:
example-1 shungite must not be use near a dac a cd player or am amplfier because of the sound conpressing effect...
Example-2 the dimensions of resonators and and location is very important then ensuing errors which were modified by trials...
Why are there always some people who are unable to understand that their hearing, all of our hearing is excellent at playing tricks on us.
Another half truth but this one take the cake...
A set of incremental increase each week or month for 2 years CANNOT be ONLY a placebo effect...
And because you think that this truth represent all the reality, you use your equalizer like if it can replace totally your ears... It is a tool useful for adjusting the speakers numbers to some aspect of the room.... Thats all.... You need your ears for finalisation of any acoustical process...
Do you know the measures numbers fallacy? A circle of measured numbers mesns nothing without EARS to interpret them.... Elementary epistemology...
Lack of understanding/knowledge and ego I think are most to blame. None of us likes to be wrong.
A mirror is the most epistemological tool in life.....
... all of our hearing is excellent at playing tricks on us.
Seeing is believing, but hearing is not.
Oh no, the eye is very easily deceived. Using that to advantage is part of the art of many pursuits, such as architecture, illusions ("magic"), and design in all sorts of things, from clothing to cars. In truth, the eye itself is not deceived, but the brain. The same is true when we listen. It's our brain that tells us what we hear. That is an important distinction because it hints at one of the challenges of conducting a scientifically valid blind listening test, but getting into that here is OT.
Just a word about a simple explanation about "tweaks" that seems to perturb some brain....
It is not the "Riemann hypothesis problem" level of difficulty to understand that:
ANY "tweak" is a tool thay may help or not, it is MOST OF THE TIMES not enough to buy a tweak and think that it will solve completely the problem related to the working dimension where the "tweak" or tool is applied...
This is the reason WHY i dont recommend tweaks in itself, but a set of systematic listening experiments in the mechanical dimension, electrical and acoustical one...All my devices are chap modified low cost product or homemade by the way....I sell creativity not lazy consumerism...
An example:
A set of springs can apparently help to control vibrations...If the number of springs is adjusted finely...
It is a "tweak" but without listening experiments, this tool cannot solve the problem why?
Because it smooth the effect of vibrations yes but not necessarily of speakers internal resonance...And the perception of the instrumental timbre is negatively affected also by resonance .... Then thinking by listening experiments i added an another new set of springs this time on top of the box speakers under an heavy load that was already there damping my speakers... WHY? because the asymmetrical compression of the 2 sets of springs boxes, one under the speakers, the other on top of the speakers under the damping load create an effect of asymmetric elasticity between the top and the bottom of the speakers enclosure smoothing the effect of the inevitable internal resonance...
All that is not the fact of a gullible consumers buying a "tweak" or a tool, being a set of springs or an equalizer...
I called that listening experiments in the mechanical embeddings dimension of an audio system... COST: peanuts....
Now an important remark:
If your electrical grid is too much noisy like ALL non treated electrical grid, if your room acoustic is not enough under sontrol, how could you hear the destruction of musical timbre by internal resonance when putting the springs tool or tweak under your speaker? You could probably not.... You will think that vibrations being in some controls all is ok....you will satisfy yourself with the improvement linked to the partial vibrations control.... But it is an illusion linked to the insufficient treatment of the electrical grid and of the room....An illusion also linked to the fact that NO tweak or tool solve all problem by itself....
Do you understand now why i speak not about "tweaks" mainly, but about the relative controls of the embeddings 3 dimensions of ANY audio system by listenings experiments?
Tweaks are plasters in the worst case like many upgrades are, most of the times for most consumers, or in the best case a tool like an equalizer, but NEVER the only solution all by itself...Listening experiments method is the solution....
Or buy a million dollars room and system and call me nut.....It will be less ridiculous than calling me nut because you own a 10,000 bucks equalizer....
More easy to understand than number theory no ? I can give to you an introduction also...
Why are audiophiles always making it harder than it needs to be? Take something utterly uncontroversial, turn it into War of the Worlds. Maybe everyone take a break, type the word into a browser, read what comes up? When I do that strangely enough its pretty simple-
tweak: improve (a mechanism or system) by making fine adjustments to it.
Yeah. I can see how that would drive some people crazy. Sheesh.
You can call it a tweak. You can call it an adjustment. You can call it fine tuning. You can tweak VTA, VTF, speaker toe in, etc, etc, on and on. You can tweak by moving, adding, removing. You can buy a tweak, or you can make a tweak. Heck you can even invent a tweak.
The question is why anyone would want to ridicule and insult people for trying to improve their systems by making fine adjustments to it? Isn’t improved systems what audiophiles are here for? Apparently not. Some it seems are here to insult us for the crime of wanting to make our systems better.
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