Isn't it kind of absurd to expect the shipping container to arrive in pristine condition? Have you ever thought about the massive chain of events that it takes to get a package somewhere. It is incredible that this event is even possible.
WARNING - USE UPS FOR SHIPPING RATHER THAN FEDEX
Just a bit of advice for those shipping heavy items to buyers.
FedEx has indicated that it is their policy NOT TO REIMBURSE shippers / buyers for the damage to the container of a shipment - you must replace the container at your own cost.
UPS has confirmed that it is their policy TO REIMBURSE shippers / buyers for the damage to the container of a shipment - provided you provide sufficient proof of loss.
This happened to me this week. FedEx destroyed an expensive box containing an amplifier I purchased on Audiogon. The shipper filed the claim for replacement of the box, which cost $150 from the manufacturer, and FedEx denied the claim - because they do not insure the container - ONLY THE CONTENTS. The shipper had foolproof proof of loss. Yet FedEx would not reimburse him. The shipper did have a new box sent to me - but, he had to absorb the entire cost of the damage caused by FedEx.
The only recourse the buyer has is to simply "reject" the shipment and FedEx will return it to the seller at the seller's cost. In this instance, I conferred with the shipper, and he decided to have me accept the shipment and he would replace the box. But... it was a costly lesson.
This is the socond time this has happened to me - FedEx has damaged a container, during shipment. So - it is a frequent enough occurence that it will be my policy in the future to ship only via UPS.
FedEx has indicated that it is their policy NOT TO REIMBURSE shippers / buyers for the damage to the container of a shipment - you must replace the container at your own cost.
UPS has confirmed that it is their policy TO REIMBURSE shippers / buyers for the damage to the container of a shipment - provided you provide sufficient proof of loss.
This happened to me this week. FedEx destroyed an expensive box containing an amplifier I purchased on Audiogon. The shipper filed the claim for replacement of the box, which cost $150 from the manufacturer, and FedEx denied the claim - because they do not insure the container - ONLY THE CONTENTS. The shipper had foolproof proof of loss. Yet FedEx would not reimburse him. The shipper did have a new box sent to me - but, he had to absorb the entire cost of the damage caused by FedEx.
The only recourse the buyer has is to simply "reject" the shipment and FedEx will return it to the seller at the seller's cost. In this instance, I conferred with the shipper, and he decided to have me accept the shipment and he would replace the box. But... it was a costly lesson.
This is the socond time this has happened to me - FedEx has damaged a container, during shipment. So - it is a frequent enough occurence that it will be my policy in the future to ship only via UPS.
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And... I guess to summarize it appears the following may be beneficial: 1. Should triple box - mfrs double box should be wrapped in some cushion material and enclosed in another box without mfrs labels on the outside box. 2. Should strap and tape the straps of the outside box. 3. Should take pics of the contents, packing process, and finished package. 4. Should have UPS or FedEx store inspect the packaging and complete the packaging with the final outside box to obtain their comfort and assurance any claims will be honored. 5. Should insure package for $5000+, to assure package receives special handling by shipping company. 6. Should consider using SBA or BAX for shipping large, heavy, high-value contents - because they use special freight handling to assure no damage in transit... and... they honor their claims. 7. Should consider using a 3rd party, independent shipping insurance company, such as ShipSure to assure claims are paid - Must meet their packaging requirements (most of which are included above). Think this reflects most of the advice from the experienced shippers. |
@goldprintaudio We got into the habit of taping over the straps, just to keep the carriers from using them as grab handles as they moved packages along. Pulling on them like handles can stretch the straps, and the stress cuts into the edges of the box and tears into the cardboard, so we just put a layer of tape over the straps. I wonder if taping over satisfies FedEx's hazard concerns, as I don't recall ever having a package denied or returned and we used FedEx exclusively for lots of large, strapped packages. |
As an FYI to the posts above about using straps around the boxes, Fedex will generally deny taking ANY package with straps around the box (unless you are shipping Freight). They consider the straps a safety hazard in case they break and hit an employee. I learned this a while back from a few different Fedex employees at our shipping depot. |
Re: BAX and SBA, I want to say yes but my memory ain't what it used to be and I've shipped upwards of 10,000 packages so it all becomes a blur at some point. Re: requirements, yes each has their own requirements. Shipsurance, for example, requires that the outer box not show any manufacturer names. In other words, if the box easily gives away what's inside, no coverage. This isn't an unusual requirement, or unreasonable, in my experience. ParcelPro has limitations around certain high-fraud-rate zip codes, which they post on their website. If you ship to an of them, you must make special arrangements listed on their site for those areas. They get comfortable by laying out these parameters, and holding shippers to them for coverage. I've photographed or taken video of some packaging sessions, to show step by step how the package was created and put together so I have proof that I abided by their requirements and created a sturdy package. |
Yes, insurance claims are potentially easier when the item has been packaged by a FedEx or UPS store. But keep in mind that most UPS stores - at least the ones in the USA - are franchises so they’re not actually owned by UPS. If the people running a given UPS store are unprofessional or clueless, you may end up transferring your problem rather than eliminating it - instead of fighting UPS corporate, you end up arguing with a UPS store owner. So when you choose a UPS store, pay attention to how it’s being run, don’t be afraid to ask questions, see how the people behind the counter respond to being questioned about insurance, liability, etc. I can tell you from 17 years experience shipping everything from jukeboxes to rare artwork to audio equipment that if you use any of them long enough - FedEx, UPS, USPS - they’ll ruin your week. But no matter who you use, insure with a dedicated 3rd party. We have accounts with ShipSurance and G4S International (which is now owned by ParcelPro). Find a dedicated transit insurance provider who is experienced covering what you want to ship. I’ve had good success with USPS insurance, the few times they’ve been involved, but I would never insure with UPS or FedEx directly. |
@blackjack616 I imagine the vast majority of UPS employees love and excel at their job - and there's a certain amount of social foundation in seeing that big brown truck pull up outside one's house with a box of good news! Still, it wasn't the rank-and-file employees so much as the denial of any responsibility for the damage. I felt as if a company that cared for the nuts and bolts would have lent more credence (not to mention NOT tossed the box around like it was sawdust). |
I use Fed Ex ground for all my shipments and have had no problems. Also, my experience is that Fed Ex is less costly. Finally, if the OEM carton is so valuable, then buy another "shipping" carton within which to place it when you ship it. Common sense would tell you that no carrier is ever going to replace an outer carton, which by definition, is the shipping carton. |
Screw that. I'll never use UPS again after how they botched shipping a pair of really good monitors. They denied all culpability and washed their hands of the matter, even though the box and contents were plainly damaged because of shipping, not because of packing. I'm using FedEx or freight from now on. |
Here's my recent FEDEX & UPS experiences - FEDEX guy hand carried each of my 95 lb Daedalus speakers from the end of the truck to my front door and gently put them down. UPS guy dumped my 90 lb LineMagnetic amp off the back of the truck to my driveway and dragged the box across the driveway to my garage door; thankfully LineMagnetic solidily packages the amp so I had no problem. I was home for both events. |
There really is little recourse with UPS or FedEx for damaged high end electronics. Neither will pay full damages for anything less than a forklift blade through the faceplate of your reference amp. The only way to ship expensive gear is to encase it in foam inside a cardboard box placed inside a wood box. Crush proof and shock proof. Don't use bubble wrap or styro for anything heavy...it will be dropped often, and stryo and bubble wrap only give you ONE drop before losing their cushion. Take pics of what you ship(and how it was packed)and keep evidence of what you paid to acquire it in case they lose it(very rare). They will only pay what it cost you...not what you insured it for. |
But... in the meantime... give us the link to where / how to get "nylon strapping / tensioning system."Well, prices have gone up since I equipped Galiber’s infrastructure with these tools, but if a few buddies buy and sell a few times/year, you might want to do a group buy. I picked my tools up at a local shipping supply, so other than the general good quality of Uline’s products (in the links below), I can’t vouch for these from direct experience. They appear to be the same general construction however. They don’t make it easy for you to figure out, and you might be well served to check out a local shipping supply company to walk you through this. BTW, I learned about the manual handling requirement from a fellow who was involved in the design of FedEx’s Memphis depot. I’d be very surprised if UPS’s facilities don’t follow the same procedures from this perspective. You need two tools. The first one is used to tension the strap, hold it in place and cut the loose end after crimping the two ends together: http://www.uline.com/Product/Detail/H-540/Poly-Strapping-Tools/Uline-Industrial-Poly-Strapping-Tensioner and http://www.uline.com/BL_3502/Polyester-Strapping-Tensioners?keywords=nylon%20strapping The second is the crimping tool (poly strapping sealer) that you used to "join" the nylon strap with steel cleats: http://www.uline.com/BL_3456/Poly-Strapping-Sealers?keywords=nylon%20strapping The consumables consist of a spool of nylon/polyester tape along with the metal cleats to join/crimp the ends together: Their strapping page is a bit confusing http://www.uline.com/BL_2801/Uline-Polyester-Strapping?keywords=nylon%20strapping The S-1243 (1/2" wide x .028" thick seems to be the stuff) I just measured my strapping material (nylon? polyester?) and it’s plenty strong at .017" thick. I’m a bit surprised at the high pricing for the material, as Uline’s tools are quite reasonable in comparison. These are the cleats (the open variety - match the width of your tape - i.e. 1/2"): http://www.uline.com/BL_2852/Metal-Poly-Seals Cheers, Thom @ Galibier Design |
We checked with an Audio Dealer who ships a lot, and he advised us not to use FedEx, because they do use a lot of poorly trained contract drivers (many who do not speak English and who do not care how they handle shipments - they're much less costly). UPS does not do that. He also advised us to wrap the Mfrs packaging (usually 2 boxes) in bubble wrap, enclosed in additional outer box (3rd box), marked "Fragile, Do Not Stack, Do Not Drop," and insure the item for greater than $5000. He said UPS uses "special handling" for these packages, because of the increased value and cost if damaged in shipment. He advised that other than using a freight carrier (SBA, or DAX) that would be the safest way to ship high value goods. |
I was sitting in my living room one day and UPS pulled up. I was waiting for delivery of a tube amplifier and was hoping this was it. It wasn't a large or extremely heavy unit but the driver in his rush took a step out the door of his truck and dropped it. It fell hitting the bottom step of the truck and landed on the pavement. He proceeded to scoop it up and headed to my door. Well, thought I, do you suppose he will say anything? After the usual "How you doin'" he thrusts his signature pad out. So I sez, sez I " I saw you drop the box. I will not accept delivery until I open it and examine the contents AND make sure it will work." He sez "Oh, you saw that? Heh heh" Upon opening I found one of the tubes was smashed. That was all it took. I refused delivery due to damage, called the seller and told him what happened. All worked out in the end but this cured me of UPS once and for all. |
Wow... when I started this thread... I had no idea it would elicit all of these great incidents and suggestions of how to prevent destruction of your shipment by FedEx and UPS. Keep em’ comin’ But... in the meantime... give us the link to where / how to get "nylon strapping / tensioning system." What we need from this thread is how to prevent damage to expensive equipment, during shipping. That’s not FedEx... or... UPS. But... it may be SBA or BAX. I can tell you one thing... I will not... entrust expensive items to either one - FedEx or UPS. But... maybe... SBA or BAX. Ooops... I’m repeating myself... Oh... well... after 4 glasses of an incredible wine - I’m sure you can understand! Or... I’ll make dam’n sure the seller bears "risk of loss" if shipped via FedEx or UPS. And... make sure you pay via PayPal / Credit Card - that will reimburse you if you do not receive the shipment undamaged, in the condition described by seller. These are "no-brainer" suggestions to protect you. You should do the same. |
What a troll ... all we have here are anecdotal experiences. Having said that, here's a tip (whether you're a FedEx or UPS fanboy) ... Use nylon strapping on your cartons. It's a $150.00 investment in the tensioning and crimping tools but well worth it. What does it accomplish in addition to holding the carton together? It ensures manual handling and your precious cargo doesn't travel on those long, inclined roller/ramps. This eliminates both the risk of the package taking a 12 foot fall off the high point of the ramp, as well as there being a 100 pound carton (immediately behind/above yours) slamming into your shipment. Cheers, Thom @ Galibier Design |
Just to weigh in on this - I bought a factory-refurbished Denon AVR recently from a Denon-authorized dealer that was shipped FedEx. I purchased on a Weds, it shipped on Weds 20 min. later with an immediate email from FedEx offering me a tracking number and various special delivery options. I was informed it would be delivered on Friday, and because I could only be home after a certain time I paid extra to schedule a delivery window on Friday evening between 5pm-8pm. On Thursday afternoon my delivery date was changed to Saturday in a follow up email. No reason given. Tracking indicated that my package sat idle in a warehouse for 23 hours. On Friday morning I contacted FedEx customer service to complain since I paid for a specific delivery window on a specific date. It was clear from the email I received in response that the customer service rep either had not read or had not understood my complaint, as he simply indicated that my package would be delivered during my 5pm-8pm delivery window... the day after scheduled delivery. He was not the slightest bit apologetic about this. I attempted to rearrange my Saturday schedule to accommodate. FedEx missed the delivery window. At 8:15pm I left for the appointment I would now be considerably late for. At 9:30pm the driver called me and left a voicemail to the effect that he was leaving my "signature required" package in between the doors at my apartment. 5 minutes later he called back and told my voicemail that he was leaving the package with a neighbor across the street and two doors down - a neighbor I had never met and did not know at all. He gave this person my phone number. While my neighbor turns out to *not* be a dangerous psychopath serial killer, and ultimately I picked up my new AVR from her the following morning, I think you'll understand why I fall into the "Never Again FEDEX" camp. We seem to have come a long long way from the days of "When it absolutely, positively has to be there overnight" to "We don't really give a shit if it gets there at all, and we don't mind distributing your personal contact information to strangers along the way." |
FedEx absolutely destroyed a pair of $3000 loudspeakers, beyond belief destruction, then tried to settle for $1200 despite our insured and provable value of $3000. Only after we threatened to create a website: www.howfedexdestroyedourproduct.com did they settle. Very bad experience with FedEx. |
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No doubt the only safe way to ship "high-dollar," heavy, bulky equipment is SBA or BAX - forget about FedEx and UPS. They may be fine for smaller, less expensive shipments, but not for "the good stuff." See the "Amps Forum" post by someone who is far more experienced and knowledgeable than anyone posting above. https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/warning-use-ups-for-shipping-rather-than-fedex |
There are many high-end manufacturers/dealers that will not ship UPS, nor except UPS shipments. I have experienced far too many horror stories first hand, of damaged gear. They will NEVER see my business. (period) FedEx has (knock on wood) never damaged or lost a thing for me, so guess who has my account?! |
I've used both and have never had a bad experience with either, with one exception. When I sold my NAD Masters Series components (3 cartons), shipping from Maryland to Colorado, the buyer could only accept and sign for the shipment from home, after hours, a service FedEx offers, but one which I could not do on their website (high value). When I got to the local FedEx store they clipped me for about $150 more than shipping for daytime delivery. When I sell, my most local drop off point is my local UPS Store. If an item is valued at over $999, I am required to print off a form, meet the driver at the store and have him sign for it, no problem, as he's there from about 5:30pm for 20-30 minutes. Apparently UPS had troubles dropping off high value items at those franchised UPS Stores. |
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