Wanting to upgrade my streaming sound quality.

The Rose products look to be what are essentially Android devices. Like an Android Phone/Tablet. It uses Android OS with its own touch screen, coupled with streaming software built atop its network stack and an onboard DAC. Presumably running stock Android apps from the streaming services (which is a huge plus, IMO). It's an interesting approach.

If you're already an Android ecosystem user (eg - phone), I think you'd find the user experience of the Rose products very familiar. 

I'm looking to update my streaming which has been in place for over 10 years.   Still sounds great but lots new in streaming since.

Would like to try consolidating with an upgradeable all in 1 unit.  Need a lot of power and current though to replace what I have.  Close to pulling the trigger on a nad m33.   Hifi Rose streamers have appeal.   Old Logitech Squeezebox Touch streamers are being replaced.  Still nothing with form and function like those that I see but tied to old Logitech MEdia Server which  is very reliable and does a lot but is compute resource intensive and pretty old.   Been leveraging Plex more as well for now.

Focus on streamer for features and usability.  Focus on all the rest for sound.

One of the things that pushes me toward the HiFi Rose is the ease of use along with the support of the company as far as frequent automatic updates.in addition to the touch screen It has a physical remote or can be controlled from my iPad. Also being able to stream 4k video holds a little interest for me although it’s not terribly important.

I would connect the Rose to my modem with an Ethernet cable and then balanced Xlr cables to my preamp. The T2 also looks good but the operating system doesn’t seem as user friendly. Now I just need to figure out how much I’m going to owe the irs before I pull the trigger. Any advice on an Ethernet or xlr cables?

Great advice on the app. Also do not forget customer service. You are bound to stumble. Learning curve ahead.

I appreciate all the recommendations and thoughts, however I think I’m going to stay with a one box solution and I’m leaning toward the hifi rose 150b.

Very interesting feature set. Looks like a worthy competitor to the new Lumin P1, for about half the price.  

IMO, a single integrated box can be a good way to go. It shortens signal paths, reduces box count and cable clutter, and improves system integration for efficient remote control. For an all-digital system, an integrated DAC/streamer/preamp is a modern  alternative to an integrated amp  (IF the volume control is good).  It pushes the advantages of integration upstream, allowing for more flexibility in selecting your power amp(s).

A touch screen could be a nice feature if the device is within easy arm's reach.  Otherwise IMO it's a gimmick;  I'd focus on the screen's information display quality (including readability from a distance).

 

I find this topic so difficult, personally.

In my local audio society, some of the very best rigs have great dacs and then have a raspberry pi or a mac mini or just a simplified computer (built with a kit) with good power supplies, good cabling, etc. for the streaming part. The emphasis is on everything around the streamer. This leaves flexibility for changes in DAC's. 

I do see the logic in getting a one-box solution, especially if one has a good unit in mind and they like the sound of the DAC built in. And, of course, if they're willing to take the digital out from that unit into another, external DAC if their taste or curiousity changes.

For myself, I have a modded Orchid MHDT DAC that I really like and a Bluesound Node 2i. I have pressed people in other threads about whether they could hear a difference when they changed streamers, but there are almost no cases where someone had a controlled comparison to describe. They were almost always changing the DAC involved, too.

So, for now, I'm likely to continue taking the digital stream out of my Orchid, improving the power supply for it (PD Creative, Teddy Pardo, something), and then remaining focused on the other elements of my system.

OP,

 

Congratulations on your decision. I read the review in The Absolute Sound. Sounds like a really interesting device. I hope you will report back on your findings… how it sounds,  how it compares with your analog system. 

Nosulac, I have no doubts the T2 is a solid choice. I have no way to listen to these two in my system unless I buy both and then either sell one or send one back. I’m not set for sure on the HiFi rose but it sure has good reviews.

I’ve had a Lumin T2 for two years, and have zero complaints. I’m contemplating upgrading to the X1. The Lumin app is solid, if a bit basic.

The T2 does support Tidal Connect, which lets you use Tidal’s iOS app directly, which is a much better user experience. The streaming services want you to use their app. Any third party app can only use subset of APIs the streaming service chooses to make public. Third party apps will always have inferior functionality.

I’ve read that Quboz is also working on a Quboz Connect tech. I’m sure when that’s available, Lumin will quickly add support for it (Lumin’s support is phenomenal), and I’ll ditch Tidal entirely.

I would personally disqualify any product that didn’t support Tidal Connect (or Q-Connect if/when it comes).

I haven’t had any experience with the hifi rose, but I suggest you listen to both and let your ears decide.

Dinov, I realize the Lumin is a nice product, but have you heard the hifi rose? I haven’t listened to either, that’s one of the reasons for my thread. 

If I were you and with the budget you have I definitely would go with a Lumin. It’s my next step up from my node, which is modified with a linear power supply. My 2 cents. Seriously though, audition one if you can. 

I appreciate all the recommendations and thoughts, however I think I’m going to stay with a one box solution and I’m leaning toward the hifi rose 150b. Everything I read is positive about this unit and it also has a dac out so if the future I could buy another dac. The reviews say it’s very much an easy streamer to operate and comes loaded with both Tidal and Quboz. Sound is supposed to be outstanding plus I can buy it with a 30 or 60 day trial with the option to send it back if I don’t like it. This thing has more features than anything I’ve looked at, in fact lots that I probably won’t use. I love the large touch screen and the app is said to be very good and intuitive.

This was my rationale for going with a dedicated streamer and external DAC.

 

As someone coming from analog, I knew the sound of a DAC would be an important consideration for me. Specifically, I was seeking a DAC that sounded more natural (detailed but also not harsh in sound). Going to a separate streamer and DAC provided more flexibility in finding this as the companies producing DACs of most interest to me tended to produce standalone external DACs. (mostly DACs with an R2R design rather than a delta-sigma design). It was not easy to find a one-box solution that had a streamer interface that I liked with a DAC that would seem to fit my sound quality preferences.

@jperry +1

 

FWIW, I'm currently using a newer version NODE into a PrimaLuna Dialogue HP integrated connected to Zu Audio Omen Mk II's.  The BluOS has been excellent and my listening has been largely limited to Qobuz and Radio Paradise.  RP MQA has been a revelation.  To my ears, this set up has been fantastic.

If I tweak moving forward, I'll likely retain the NODE, incorporate an external DAC (Schiit Bifrost?), try some upgraded cables, and maybe move to a couple REL T/7x subs.  

Hope that helps!

@jallan

+1. Not sure this will get you all the way there, but my guess is it will be one of the highest performing pairs for the money (I own or have had both) but will be satisfying and serve as proof of concept. Giving you a platform from which to upgrade further if you wish. Both are highly regarded and should have excellent trade in value.

clean up your home network in the process

drop the catx cable if you can and go optical to your streamer

eliminate all the wireless connections in the food chain (wifi and bluetooth)

IMO there are great gains to be made getting the front end network optimized before anything reaches the streamer

the effort will bring your digital playback closer to analog SQ

@gphill 

the blusound node 2i is an excellent streamer for the price. Paired with an external DAC I think you can hit your budget and be quite happy with the SQ. Good luck ! 
 

Ron 

Everything is subjective.  Without going into my full system, around 14k. I stream amazon HD (very pleased with price and sound quality) through an outboard Benchmark DAC3B, also using  an impressive Benchmark Line amp LA-4. I listen to just R&R loudly from a windows based laptop, 2.0 CORDED to my listening Chair, About 12' away. If you don't mind the cord, Mine sounds fabulous. No outboard streamer, just the DAC. My 2cents, if you don't mind the cord, spend your money on a very good DAC. Robert TN  Good luck !!!!!!!!!

+1 @vanson1 

I would recommend separates and upgrading in steps. Since you have a DAC already, start with a streamer. Lots of recommendations here, anything decent will be big upgrade over the iPad. Streamers do matter! Pay close attention to reviews of the streamer software/UI, if you hate the interface, the performance won’t matter.  

You have 1000 mg speed in that you are cutting in have by using wifi. First step is to make sure your streamer is hard wired to you net with cat 7 wire. This alone made a big difference in my sound quality.

I agree with @rbstehno about MQA. If you invest in a new streaming DAC, try to find one that does MQA decoding and rendering  (esp. if you plan to use Tidal).  FWIW,  a couple of Matrix Audio products perform much better on ASR measurements than the PS Audio DS Senior, for a much lower retail price. But, notwithstanding what ASR measurements do or don't capture, many people seem to love the PS Audio Direct Stream Jr/Sr.  And PS Audio products are made in USA, evidently with excellent user support. 

A nice feature of both the PS Audio and the Matrix products is that they support both USB and Roon-ready network connections.  I prefer a network connection for reliability and ease of use.  I don't find that either one necessarily sounds better or worse than the other, but sometimes I've had trouble maintaining the USB handshake when changing sources/settings or powering on/off.  On the other hand, for some DSP software (like HQ Player or BACCH4Mac), you may need a USB connection.  With the right recordings, BACCH4Mac (even the $1K intro edition) can create impressive spatial audio effects.  Nevertheless, I find myself often returning to an ethernet connection.

My system: sonicTransporter i9 (runs Roon Core); Mac Mini (intel CPU) to manage downloaded music library and to run DSP software (HQ Player, BACCH4Mac); Matrix Audio Element X (preamp/DAC/streamer);  Benchmark AHB2 (power amp); JansZen Valentina P8 hybrid electrostatic loudspeakers.

 

 

I WAS a vinyl guy.

understand you want a one box solution, but I would suggest keeping them separate, just as you may want to upgrade a phono cartridge 

Aurender N100H + Schiit Yggdrasil works extremely well for me, at a $5K cost including cables. And has balanced outputs, which I use.

It's 90% DAC,  10% streamer.

With streamers It's 90% good reliable software that is easy-to-use and does not crash or hang up. 

 

 

A couple of things. Don't listen to people that have biases against MQA, their judgment is flawed to start with. Same as asking a pure analog guy how digital sounds, they will never tell you that digital sounds good. Good MQA IMO is better than vinyl and good MQA is better than cd SQ. Most people who hate MQA never actually listened to it or refused to buy the appropriate equipment to do it right. You also have look at the libraries of both and see who carries the music you listen to. Qobuz didn't have all the music I like whereas Tidal does.

I had the same preamp as you do, the C47 and the DAC is low fi. I never used it because I had an external dac that was far superior, which is typical when you combine a DAC or phono preamp in a preamp or integrated. The only reason I had the C47 was because I had a vinyl setup that cost 3x more than your setup and when I got my digital setup correctly, I sold all my analog gear and the C47 because now I go directly from my dac to the amp, no need for a preamp.

Never use USB into the dac. its flawed and even when buying all the gimmick pieces of equipment to try to make it better, its still bad.

You need software that can read/stream data at its best. That doesn't include amazon/iTunes, they are both low fi sounding. I also had a dedicated streaming box a few years ago that sounded better than my audirvana/pure music/Mac mini setup. But when Roon came out and the better Audirvana software, I got rid of the streaming box. I also got a much better external dac that has ethernet and I2S inputs so now my server is located in a different room than my dedicated audio room. What is an external streamer server? A computer with a proprietary Linux OS, and a locked system. Ask the vendor how you are going to backup the internal drive that stores your music.

Get a new M1 Mac mini with an internal SSD for the OS and the music app with 2 external disks for your ripped music and backup, then use Roon or Audirvana and you have your server, 1 that is much faster than any of the other dedicated streamers out there.

If you go cheap on the dac, then your digital sq is compromised. For $2500, use your existing pc/Mac at home with at least 16G of ram and SSD for the OS, get Roon or Audirvana, then spend $2500 for a used ps audio ds jr dac that has ethernet built in and you will have better sound than your analog setup. With this setup, then you can determine for yourself which is better for you: Qobuz or Tidal and MQA support is built into the DS jr. If you want better sound quality, then jump up to the DS sr.

Largely just repeating what I put in another post yesterday

If you are looking for a digital streamed sound that sounds analogue the borderpatrol DAC is outstanding sound and value. This works very well with an innuos mini mk3 in my system. All in new that would be pretty close to your budget.The linear PSU for the Innuos makes a very real difference.

Martin

 

@gphill if you have settled on that shortlist, my advice is to go and look at the app used to control them. With streaming, the app is your hands-on experience with the unit; imagine if your turntable was horribly fiddly to use and didn’t react to what you wanted it to do while being unintuitive. These challenges with the control software will make your user experience unenjoyable and could stop you using the unit. Sound quality is of course the primary target but the software is an incredibly close second. As you’re getting into this, I would avoid roon as it adds another complication, which means the software is even more important. I can’t speak on the Cary, but I’ve seen and read up on the Lumin and Rose software, the Rose is known to have an exceptional control app while the Lumin would come in second from that list. As I say, go and look into the app and buy the unit that you will enjoy using more, that is what will make you fall in love with streaming.

For what it’s worth I’d suggest the Rose would be your best fit, the software, extra functionality and the screen showing album art could all be a game changer for you.

So I think I’m going to have to up my budget to get what I want. I’ve been searching different streamer/dacs tonight and finding 3 at around 5k that all look interesting. The HiFi Rose 150 b, the Lumin T2, and the CaryDMS 650. Everyone of these checks all my Boxes and in fact are one box solutions that according to reviews  could easily surpass my analog gear for sq. The Cary is brand new but there are reviews of previous models. The T2 is well reviewed and the HiFi rose is very well thought of. Any thoughts on these three. The ease of use is important to me as I’m not very good with complicated machines.

I thought I would weigh in on your question as I have embarked on the streamer journey since our house burned down last year in a forest fire. I replaced all my old equipment with similar gear mostly from Audiogon. I love analog, and I found an old VPI TNT VI with a VdH Crimson cartridge to replace my lost analog rig. After looking around for a streamer/DAC, I settled on a Cary Audio DMS 700 (new) and it was amazing to stream music from Qobuz that made the previously wonderfully sounding old Wadia 860 sound restrained. I now run a digital coax from the Wadia and use it as a transport for the few CD's that were donated to me. The Cary approached, and in some cases almost equaled my analog rig. I then needed another streamer in a different part of the house so I tried the DMS 650 ($4796 at the Cary Direct Store), which was almost the equal of the 700, as it is a new product for Cary. At the same time, I trialed the DMS 800 (a new product for them) which knocked my socks off for detail, holographic imaging and not a hint of digital harshness. Though the DMS 650 is above your stated budget, consider that it has state of the art AKM DAC's that will resolve all the high resolution formats you utilize. It also has balanced outputs, with multiple digital input options, and I suspect you would notice that it will make the streaming of digital music close enough to your analog rig that you will use it more often as you explore more and more music from cyberspace. Cary Audio will let you trial it for 30 days to see if you like it. Alternatively, you could try to find a used DMS 600 for close to your budget, which I have not heard, but others have reported on favorably. Good Luck.

A lumin D2 with a sbooster secondhand can cost you 1500.

And a cat8.

 

A Lumin D2 will get you what you want, within your budget with a little left over for a legitimate CAT6 cable. 1 box, balanced out. Tidal, Qobuz, Roon support. A T2 if you want to reach a little further.

Yeah, there's a huge difference between Qobuz and Tidal, at least to my ears.  Amazon Prime was better than Tidal, but wasn't great either. 

Just a comment that the Pro-ject streamer is supposed to sound better than the Bluesound Node (at least the prior version), but I do believe usability is better with the Bluesound Node. The white-label version of the Volumo software used on the Pro-ject streamer is decent, but there are some quirks with the software.

FWIW, these are my listening notes to the major streaming services. It truly was a bit surprising for the same music to sound quite different via different streaming services, but this is what I heard after doing trials of all of these services. (I had and still have a Spotify Premium subscription, got a Qobuz 1-month trial and then proceeded to do trials of the other streaming services)

My subjective impressions of the musicality and sound quality of the major HD streaming services: 

1. Qobuz

2. Primephonic

3. Spotify Premium (320 kbps Ogg Vorbis which is not lossless)

4. IDAGIO

5. Amazon HD

6 Tidal

 

Round 1, Spotify Premium vs Qobuz: I have Spotify Premium with a Family subscription. From a value standpoint, Spotify was my default choice that has the best search as well as working well for my family. From a critical listening perspective in my auditioning sessions, Spotify actually is not bad at conveying detail, pace and presence from music. It sounds musical. Any shortcomings that it has are errors of omission rather than errors of commission. I can listen to Spotify especially in mobile settings and be engaged and immersed in the music. After listening for a longer period of time, Qobuz is clearly better at conveying detail, transparency/clarity, pace and presence, but Spotify doesn't do anything noticeably wrong.

Round 2, Qobuz vs Tidal: So far Qobuz is clearly better than Tidal even listening through pretty cheap desktop passive speakers. Tidal sounds very two dimensional and flat in its sound quality but with some harshness in the high frequencies. I'll listen a bit more to Tidal, but so far I'm not impressed at all. Spotify Premium even seems to sound better than Tidal. 

Some additional thoughts about Tidal after listening on higher quality equipment. I think they have applied some equalization to boost the bass and treble. In the process, I think side effects of doing this is to take out some of the presence of voices and instruments and add an artificial quality to voices and instruments.. Qobuz sounds a LOT better. Spotify Premium also sounds better. To my ears at least. (Disclaimer: Your results may vary). I'm currently listening to a track that is a MQA file on Tidal vs a CD quality file on Qobuz. The CD quality file on Qobuz sounds a LOT fuller and more natural. 

Not a big fan of hip hop, but decided to listen to something that is squarely in Tidal's area of focus. I listened to 'The Box' by Roddy Ricch which is a MQA file on Tidal and CD quality on Qobuz. Same results. The Qobuz file sounds fuller and has more presence. Almost sounds like two different recordings when listening on Qobuz vs Tidal.

Round 3, Qobuz vs Amazon HD: Winner for me is Qobuz for the following reasons.

Amazon: Sounds more flat. Less drive than Qobuz so that some music sounds like it is plodding along. Sound is less full. Amazon HD doesn't necessarily do anything wrong (as does Tidal), but also clearly not as good as Qobuz to my ears.

Qobuz: Much more presence than Amazon HD. More 3-dimensional. Better pace and drive. Better low-frequency response & definition. More range to conveying the emotion in music: (i.e., calmer for calmer music & more drive & pace for more upbeat music)

Round 4, IDAGIO vs Qobuz: Clear winner for me is Qobuz. My impressions are that Qobuz sounds fuller, has more low frequency weight and is able to convey a broader range of expression from greater calm to more drive. Qobuz also seems to have more realistic tonal quality for instruments especially for string instruments.I think this is due to greater clarity and definition from the music as reproduced by Qobuz. I thought that IDAGIO's search design would be compelling to me for listening to classical music, but I'm finding that I actually like Qobuz's search better than that on IDAGIO

Round 5: Qobuz vs Primephonic: 

Sound quality: A Primephonic's sound quality was quite good, but Qobuz' sound quality was still noticeably better. Qobuz provides more presence around instruments and voices while Primephonic, though good, tends to sound more 2-dimensional in its sound quality. The benefit of more presence is that recordings are more engaging because they sound more alive rather than just being reproduced.

Amount of Content: Also, Primephonic's lack of music content was an issue. When I did searches, I would often only be able to see one track shown from an album. Qobuz also has this issue, but to a lesser degree. Qobuz has enough gaps in content filled so that this is not so much of an issue.

Search Quality: From what I remember, search in Primephonic was difficult to use. For classical music, it is important to me to be able to be able to filter on performer and/or conductor. This seemed to be difficult to do in Primephonic. Spotify's search is best, but I'm finding Qobuz's search to be passably good.

 

Summary: I'm finding Qobuz to sound both more realistic and more engaging on all types of music. Jazz, Rock, Classical, even Rap/hip-hop.

Calvin, your set up looks good to me and would be right at my budget or a little over. Everyone is pretty much a Quboz fan instead of Tidal, is there really that much difference? It’s easy to change. I’ve also heard good things about Amazon’s Prime new music streaming service. 

Also, ditching Tidal for Qobuz would be a substantial improvement in sound quality. Even Spotify Premium sounds better than Tidal to my ears. I'd be happy to post my listening impressions of the major streaming services if that would be of interest.

Although over your limit, Bryston make a combination DAC and streamer that I've been looking at - the BDA 3.14 for about $4,195. 

FWIW, I've actively avoided digital audio for the last 30 years because just about everything I listened to would induce listening fatigue pretty quickly along with the tonal quality of digital being not as pleasing to my ear as that of vinyl on a turntable.

I'm quite happy with this setup which would fall under your $2,500 budget:

Supra Cat 8 Ethernet cable ~$60

Pro-ject Stream Box S2 Ultra streamer (~$800 new, $400 used) >

Audioquest Jitterbug USB cleaner ~$60 >

Stordiau Lush 1 USB cable ~$250 >

Denafrips Pontus II DAC ~$1700

Each of these components was selected to make the sound smoother and more pleasing to my ear. I can now listen for an entire 8-10 hour work day to digital music.

 

With only $2.5k to spend, you'll have to be very judicious with purchases, otherwise may be disappointed. Many good and not so good choices, be prepared for possible letdowns. With so many innovations, products and directions one may take with streaming, hard to give advice. I prefer two computer setup and optical network, others prefer one computer and ethernet, and this is just two of so many choices that need to be made.

Thanks to everyone. I’m seeing some thoughts that a dedicated streamer would be better than my iPad. Soix your suggestions sound good and might be close to my budget. Mapman it’s hard to know what recordings are what. I’ve seen some things that the dac in my preamp may not be the best. Db I’m going to check out that used n100 on eBay. 

You have what looks like a good pre-amp with DAC (Mc) to start with, ie a pretty good digital setup, so you really have to be careful about knowing what specifically it is with the sound and/or streaming features you want to change or improve or you could be chasing (expensive) ghosts.

 

Are you comparing to your vinyl? Are you comparing apples/apples in terms of same release of an album on vinyl and available on Tidal?  Things like MQA with the streaming service alone could make a big difference in how things sound.  Could be better or worse...that's a highly subjective determination.  Not familiar with Tidal and MQA specifically so hard to say with confidence.

 

Often streaming services use more recent releases of albums than the original vinyl releases and newer digital releases tend to be way different at the source generally louder overall with a totally different mix. So the release you have on vinyl could be much different than the one provided by the streaming service at the source and nothing you do with changing gear alone will make them sound the same or even close.

So my advice is be careful and be sure you are comparing apples/apples before making changes.

BTW I am going through some similar exercises at present looking to maybe update my streaming to newer gear and my findings are you really have to be careful to avoid spinning your wheels both feature and sound wise.

There’s a used N100 on eBay asking under $1800. I like to buy high-quality stuff used. If you could find a used Ayre QB-9 Twenty, that’d be a fine DAC to present balanced input to your MAC preamp.

It’s Roon and Qobuz for me, I rarely spin anything on my TD124, a handsome icon.

db

Well, here’s what I’d do — get an iFi Zen Stream with their upgraded linear power supply (yeah I know, but it makes a big difference at relatively low cost), and since you’re an analog guy I’d recommend a good R2R DAC like a Denafrips Pontus ll.  Beyond the scope of this thread, at some point I’d add an optical connection between your router and DAC, which can be done for only about 80 bucks.  And go with Qobuz, NOT Tidal with their silly MQA BS.  Best of luck. 

OP, I was not in any way suggesting you spend $30K. What I was suggesting that in order to get to the same performance level it is likely you will have to spend something on the order of cost of your other components. Hence I suggested maybe a Aurender N100 might be appropriate… actually it is $2.7K.. not $4 like I said.

 

Happy hunting.

Ghd, your system, I’m sure is amazing, however I’m not going to spend that kind of money. My whole system is only about 30k retail. I’m really looking for something that would be a noticeable improvement from the dac in my c47 and the iPad. I’ve looked at numerous threads on here about digital streaming sq and feel sure I should be able to make improvements for a lot less than 30k. 
Would hooking up my preamp directly to my modem with an Ethernet cable improve the sound? Everything I read says that the dac in my c47 is not great and I can’t go to the Mac dac2 upgrade. Would a streamer fed into the dac on the c47 improve things?

imho it is mostly about the dac, but the front end signal feed through the streamer often matters too, especially for higher resolution systems reaching for a very high level of s.q. ...

I have been primarily an analog guy for fifty years. Wishing and being disappointed by digital. Finally over the last couple years I was able to do it. It is not likely to be cheap. You can see my system under my ID.

My best bet for you to accomplish what you want would be sure to make sure you have the best DAC that MAC makes and then pair it with a first rate streamer… you might start by trying a Aurender N100 ($4K)… I am not sure of the SQ of your analog end. I recommend Aurender for a serious attempt at duplicating analog’s high sound quality. I have there flagship the W20SE and that is what it took to get there. Linn also makes great high end streamers. You need both high end streamer and DAC.

In my system most components ended up costing roughly in the same ballpark. My analog end cost about $35K (TT + Phono stage) and digital ~ $40K (streamer + DAC). Obviously that is only a generalization on how to look at this. But I have tried a few high end DACs and Streamers and they are competitively priced on sound quality. Unlike the lower end where there is much more variation in price / sound quality. I would imagine scaling these numbers to fit you system might not be helpful in thinking about what it might take. It can be expensive trying to go too cheap over and over again.

 

Good luck, it is amazing when you get there. But no less work and money than putting together a great analog end.

+ 1 @carlsbad 

It's all about the DAC.

 

I know you don’t want an outboard power supply, but my suggestion is an Innuos Zen Mini with the LPS. Form factor is such that the two side by side are the width of a normal component, or you can stack them. The LPS does make a real difference, or you could just get a Zen mini.

I have a Zen III with outboard DAC which is pretty good. My system is posted of you want to look