Very Bad purchase from upscale audio Acoustic Zen Adagio
This was not my first purchase from Kevin Deal at Upscale audio. I am a entry level audiophile. My PrimaLuna Dialogue Premium HP and Dialogue Premium Preamplifier have given many hours of enjoyment. I have purchased well over 1K in tubes from Kevin. This purchase took me over the 10K mark with Upscale Audio. I am not a rookie to audio or tube amplification. I have had a successful tube amp repair and design shop since 1993. My concern. Here is the description of the Acoustic Zen Adagio from Upscale audio's website.
This pair of Adagio's from our demo room are also the last pair of
Adagio's in our inventory. The Adagio is such a sweet sounding speaker
and is perfect for those who really like to get inside the music. The
pair we have are in the stunning Figure Red wood finish. The baffle
style is the original (and better sounding) non-tapered baffle, as
pictured. Price $2499.00 plus shipping Ok. I called Kevin and talked to him on the phone. I asked him if he would entertain an offer. I told him that I had seen the same speakers offered on Audiogon and Audioasylum for considerably less. He said I am a retail store and back my products. He also said this and I quote " Those people are just guys in their underwear scratching their asses." I am a store. I trusted the description of the speakers and I trusted Kevin. Total price. $2839. $2499.00 plus $340.00 shipping to NC. The speakers arrived and I couldn't wait to unpack them and hook them up. The packing was great. My anticipation was greater. Left speaker Tweeter DOA. The same speaker had a shameful reject finish. The lacquer was so clouded you can hardly see the wood figure. The back of the speaker was loaded with black specks under the lacquer. These speakers are seconds, rejects. I sent Kevin Deal 4 emails referring to the fact that this really was a bad deal. It has been 3 days and no response. On the other hand Robert Lee ( Owner of Acoustic Zen) responded immediately to my email asking for help with the DOA Tweeter. I sent it off next day air to him and today responded that it is on it's way back to me. Somehow Kevin Deal's Train ran off the tracks so don't ask for your money back
A few years ago I needed an octet of EL84 tubes. He said he had a set of Ultron branded tubes. He acknowledged that Ultron was a rebrander but that the tubes were stamped Made in Germany. He said they might be Siemens. He gave me a decent price and I bought them.
When I received them, I popped one out of the box and it took me about 1 second to recognize them as Sovtek. They had the little flying saucer getter that no one but Sovtek has ever used. Certainly as a tube reseller, Upscale knew exactly what these tubes were. As Sovteks are okay and I didn’t pay an arm and a leg, I kept them. But Kevin clearly misled me.
Its a shame that it ever came to this. And I understand the OP’s situation is not just being discussed on this forum either.
Without taking sides, Mr. Deal should have just offered the OP a full refund as he obviously had an unhappy customer. Then this unfortunate incident would have never been brought to light in a public forum read by other potential customers. And the high end buyers market is simply too small for any dealer to get this kind of press.
The internet can make or break you because this isn’t the 20th Century anymore. And it favors the buyer. If I was a dealer, which there are a few on this board, I would paying close attention to this. Bad press gets out quick so don’t let it get out.
Sorry to hear about this situation. I bought a used amp that was used from Kevin Deal at Upscale Audio. When I alerted him that the amp was defective he was a total gentleman, apologized, and had me send back the amp... no hassles. I'm sorry this was not your experience.
In my experience Kevin can come off as a little gruff sometimes. But he is very knowledgeable and tells you what he thinks. Doesn't bother me. Better than having a guy who just tells you whatever he thinks you want to hear. I've gotten some excellent deals from him. Some of his pricing is pretty good. Charges a little more for tubes but you know they won't be duds. Anyone who thinks they can definitively judge the finish on those speakers by looking at those pictures must have deeper powers of perception than I have. Pretty sure Kevin didn't apply the finish. If it's a problem blame the manufacturer. Think it's kinda lame to start a crusade on multiple forums against Upscale on the basis of "color not absolutely perfect, finish not absolutely perfect." And no way Upscale knowingly sends out a speaker with a dead tweeter. All the bashing here is out of hand, especially given the nature of the complaint.
Hi rbogartr, I am sorry to hear of your less than acceptable experience at Upscale Audio. I have spent more than $40K on equipment with Kevin. This includes Cary Audio Design amplifiers, pre-amplifiers, a phono stage, and a CD player. I have also purchased cables and several sets of tubes. Kevin and his 'right-hand' man, Jared, have been more than fair with me; they have given me excellent recommendations and treated me very well. I have been a customer of Upscale Audio going back to 2005. I cannot tell you how pleased I am with the systems that occupy several room s in my home. Kevin has become a trusted audio adviser to me, my friends, and my family. Please call Kevin and speak with him. I am sure he will make it right for you. Best wishes and you take care.
My experience with Upscale Audio was good and bad. Bought a used Oracle phone stage but found it really wasn't the caliber I was looking for. Kevin took it back in credit for a new Manley Chinook which seemed to be his pet product at the time. There was a credit card charge mix up that they corrected promptly and the whole exchange was quite smooth. Working with Kevin was not pleasant however. I identify with many of the experiences described above. Too intimidating and condescending to take my business back there.
Andy at vintage tube is a great guy. Try him. Audio is becoming to snooty and a lot of folks are forgetting the service part. My first lesson was a CD player that I bought from a tube audio place in Arizona. I forget the name. Guy was nice until I forked over 4 grand and had a problem. He actually laughed. I said to myself what other industry takes your money and laughs when you have that problem. As far as race is concerned being an African American who doesn't look like a high need audiophile I have had my share of folks being rude and refusing to even acknowledge me or in the case of an audio show even refuse to speak. I'm finally finished with my system and won't be putting in more money in. Not going to to take crap and overpay for it. That being said I have had great experiences with Rick Schultz at high fidelity cables. Bob Spence at affirm Audio. Mike Blust at Modia Houston. There are still some guys who appreciate you and respect our hobby!
You have to think about resale values. You probably couldn't get what you paid for then. I would get a refund for the difference amount you think someone would pay for them and the amount you paid. Anything different get a full refund. I will never deal with upscale again!
I've made many purchases from Kevin. He is a stand-up guy. Never had any issues. I highly recommend Upscale Audio. Kevin's store is in the top echelon of Audio Salon's in the world. Yes, in the world. Kevin is a solid businessman who can be trusted without reservations.
Several years ago I called and spoke with Kevin and it took me all of 5 minutes to decide I'd not do business with him as well. As others have said he came across as egotistical and just plain not friendly.
I called this company just a few days ago ready to part with about $3k-$4k and it took all of three minutes of talking to this Kevin guy to ensure I would never give them a nickel of business. He was rude, condescending, and clearly an egomaniac. Not surprised that he is implicated in this unscrupulous deal. If I were you I would have my card company charge it back to him and send the defective speakers back. ASAP.
I wish you only the best....when I lost my wife, it seemed that was the end for me as well..... very gradually the sting lessens....the sadness will always be there, but those wonderful remembrances with her will take precedence. Good luck
I checked the photos, the speakers definitely do NOT match. One speakers finish is clearly milky compared to the other. This would definitely bother me. IMO: OP is justified in feeling this situation needs to be rectified.
Seen images of OP and speakers definitely don't look like they should be sent back. I did not visualize peeled off lacquer or drastical color mismatch. Tweeter has been sent and partial refund offered. Many buyers and sellers would share same thought. With this discussion in mind, I would suggest purchasing only from retail location where you can actually pick up pair that is perfect and matched.
@
rbogartr, You are a better man than I am. I hope that tweeter makes the speakers work as they should. And, I hope Robert Lee will give you some advice on the cabinets. Bob
Based on the DOA tweeter and the speaker's damaged finish, it is my opinion you should immediately RETURN your Acoustic Zen Adagio speakers to Upscale Audio for a full refund. It is very unfortunate you had these problems but facts are facts. You paid good money for a product that was not delivered in an acceptable condition.
As you noted, you might be able to replace the tweeter but will it be properly balanced to the tweeter in the other speaker? I suppose the speaker could be returned to Acoustic Zen for refinishing but I suggest you not do it. For what ever reason, your speakers were not delivered in a pristine condition and should be immediately returned to Upscale Audio for a full refund.
As was noted above, if you ever decide to sell these speakers, you are going to have serious selling problems because of their unacceptable finish. The bottom line is the speakers were delivered in a damaged condition and you should NOT spend any more time having to get them repaired or even accept them in their damaged condition.
If Upscale Audio does not accept responsibility, then you should be protected by either your credit card or PayPal.
I suggest you call Upscale Audio and tell them you are returning the speaker for a full refund. I also suggest you send them an email (verify their correct address) followed up by a written letter of your intent to return the speakers (you need this in writing).
Several others above have also suggested you return the speakers. I am afraid that if you keep the speakers, you are not going to be happy regardless of any repairs made to the damaged speaker. I hope my above comments help.
If l had purchased $10K worth of electronics from a (relatively) small shop, the owner should know me by first name next time I called for a piece of gear. This is particularly the case with UA since every time I called - when they carried Cary line, they said I should talk to Kevin. I have a feeling one speaker was exposed to sun light and changed color over time. May be someone novice even attempted a repair and made it worse.
Did you use pay pal with a credit card attached? If so your CC Co. makes the final decision. Escalate the matter with pay pal under not as described and they will put the sellers account into a negative and you should get a refund. Let them know you spoke or contacted the seller and you want nothing less than a full refund. Why fix an item if it wasn't your fault the item is not as described. The first thing he should have done was to fix what was wrong. no excuses, don't be weak or back off. It's your money. Best of luck.
I would ask for a full refund, including shipping costs. It is very good of you to try to make the best of this, but why should you have to bear the burden of this headache when you clearly did not get what you paid for?
Short of a full refund, if you were fortunate enough to pay through PayPal or a credit card, pursue a remedy that way. I had to do it once when a dealer failed to make good on a defective CD player. Those protections are there for a reason. If the dealer will not work with you, use them to get your money back and then let him arrange shipping of the defective speakers back to him. This should be his problem, not yours.
I bought a couple of NOS Telefunken 6922 tubes for my DAC from Kevin a couple of years ago. It wasn't a very cordial transaction, but nothing out of place.
Bad online store, bad boy ... need a new Webmaster. LOL!!!
Thank you rbogartr for revealing your misfortune. And for the others that have brought to light the condescending attitude of this dealer. I have purchased tubes from Upscale Audio before, but I will no longer buy from them in the future. I'd much rather deal with a person who appreciates my dollars spent.
It is so clear in the pictures that the two speakers are different colors and the one has a hazy film in the high gloss. It's really hard to believe that anyone with normal vision didn't notice this before they were shipped to the customer.
I bought a couple of NOS Telefunken 6922 tubes for my DAC from Kevin a couple of years ago. It wasn't a very cordial transaction, but nothing out of place. This should be a full money back situation, not a $200.00 refund.
I've dealt with Kevin a few times and he's always had a condescending attitude. Not sure why he's successful. Maybe customers like to be mistreated and disrespected.
Well, maybe majority of customers never had the privilege getting
mistreated and disrespected ordering online without directly interacting with Mr. Deal?
I've bought NOS tubes and cables off Upscale website and never experienced any problems.
It's time to re-tube my ARC REF250SE, always bought tubes from ARC ... debating
saving $2k getting them from Upscale. Now this thread got me thinking ... what IF I encounter an issue and have to interact with Mr Deal. Is it worth $2k?
Hmm!
"I've dealt with Kevin a few times and he's always had a condescending attitude.
"
I called him once regarding a specific tube I was looking for. Nothing bad but he seemed a bit blase, that was my impression and I decided I didn't want to pursue further.
His comments regarding this matter on the asylum are most telling to me. Nothing bad but it certainly reveals, to me at least, his mentality about this whole matter from the mistake in the advertised cost to his conversation with the OP and his reservations. I don't feel he acquitted himself as well as he might have.
I've dealt with Kevin a few times and he's always had a condescending attitude. Not sure why he's successful. Maybe customers like to be mistreated and disrespected.
Sorry to see you were swindled. At least it was still a fairly low price you paid.
I find it amazing AZ can make speakers so cheaply. The finish looks great but maybe one of them sat in the sun. That is a huge amount of wood working and finishing.
Two things, take the credit. Use it for some accessories, or tubes. Second have you asked the guy at Acoustic Zen if you can use some kind of polish on them? If it is an automotive type of paint, you might be able to wet sand the runs with an 800 grit, and then use rubbing compound, and polish. If you are scared to do the wet sanding which should be done with a rubber block, at least find out from the manufacturer what polish to use. Maybe he will send you some. Get the colors to match, and as someone said, putting the bad side where it shows the least will let you forget about the runs. They should never have left the factory like that, so if Upscale didn't respray them, the manufacturer should be willing to give you pointers on polishing them. Both the tweeter and finish are quality control issues.
A few years ago I bought some tubes for my Integrated from Kevin Deal. Although I went ahead with the purchase and the tubes were fine, he talked down to me throughout most of the conversation. One of his comments was "Nobody does what I do" (regarding tubes). I got the impression that he is very fond of himself. My next purchase was from Andy at Vintage.
I once talke to Kevin a few years ago for the first time and after I told him what system I have, he immediately put down my system and he made me feel like I wasted my money and should have bought from him instead. I have McIntosh system and Vandersteen speakers that is love very much. I also have a Friend that received the racist impression by Kevin from Upscale.
With great dealers like John @ AC, Alan @ Audiowaves, Taylor @ Goldprint.....why buy from this idiot!? I know because he sells Acoustic Zen. Perhaps look at a different AZ dealer or look for a different speaker. Let's face it despite some of the accolades given to Kevin @ UA, he really is an idiot so why deal with him? He's not the Zen of tubes like many think he is.
I have bought and sold a pretty good amount of products here on the 'Gon from other guys like myself who sit around in our underwear scratching our asses all day. I have yet to have a bad experience, let alone an experience that couldn't be worked out.
Even Kevin's photos show the dullness of one speaker compared to the other. In the first photo, the duller one is in front of the shiny one and it's plainly obvious. How he could miss it is beyond me. I hope the new tweeter goes a long way towards your listening pleasure.
As for the bad side, speaker placement can go a long way towards hiding it from regular sight lines. Best of luck.
Illuminating thread. rbogartr, you want it to end and I promise this will be my first and last post on the topic. Consumers have power when they communicate with each other. You helped others by starting the thread. Thank you. BTW I see the cloudiness in every picture posted. A dealer should always tell the truth about their products. rbogartr listened to the dealer, believed him, paid the asking price and was treated unfairly. Hats off to the manufacturer who responded responsibly.
In my experience, the atomization of the lacquer was off by a hair when the milky one was sprayed. Dried in the air a bit. Probably.
(I had to spray many prototype rear projection video screens when I was working on the Goo Systems product development. A tougher spraying job is probably impossible to find. I was not an expert in spraying when I began. But I sure as hell was when I ended. However, my knowledge is self taught and self discerned, so caveat emptor)
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