Wow, lots of responses while I was gone (dealing with some pressing personal issues at the moment) - so thanks for that. I’ll get to them eventually - definitely lots of food for thought and some excellent suggestions.
Versatile, non-fatiguing speakers for a small room under $1500 used or new: advice needed!
Hi, first post here! And not a very original one, my apologies!:)
So after years of listening to music through miscellaneous mid-fi solutions, I am finally thinking about dipping my toes in hi-fi audio and putting together a dedicated stereo setup. Currently I am looking at speakers, and my head is already aching from the abundance of options, so I am looking for suggestions from you guys, primarily from those of you who have had first-hand experience building a stereo in a small room like mine and achieved results they are happy with.
My room is pretty small (approx. 13’ x 10’), and I will be placing my speakers along the long wall. My listening position will be 6 feet away, give or take; plus the speakers will have to sit fairly close to the front wall. 15 inches from the back of the speaker would be nice, but if needed, I definitely I could move them out farther into the room (up to 20 inches from the back of the speaker), for listening sessions and then move them back again. There are several rows of shelves , filled with CDs and stuff, in the middle of the back wall above my head (not wall-to-wall though) - would that work as dispersion? I’m thinking of applying some room treatment behind the speakers, and on the right-hand side wall as well (if needed) - on the left hand side is a window covered with thick curtains.
Budget: under $1500 used or new.
I listen to all kinds of music, primarily rock of all eras and subgenres (blues/folk/prog/hard/art/psych/indie, etc), jazz, blues, classical, acoustic, singer-songwriters, female vocal, 80s new wave/post punk, some heavy metal. So the speakers need to be as versatile as possible. As someone who likes rock music, the bass is important, but I live in an apartment (neighbors!), so I have to find the right balance there as I don’t want to overload the room - the bass has to be there but under control and not boomy. I want as big a sound as possible in my small room without overpowering it. In general, I’m looking for engaging, non-fatiguing, dynamic sound with good midrange and tone, with enough punch to rock out when needed, nuance to play softer, more sparse types of music, and resolution so the details in fast complex passages don’t get lost or smeared. Not a fan of excessive brightness, sibilance, or harshness in the upper midrange.
I’m primarily looking at standmounts, but maybe certain smaller floorstanders would be fine? I’ve seen opinions claiming floorstanders are the way to go, regardless of the size of the room. What do you think would be preferable in my situation - apartment with neighbors, 13’x10’ room, long wall positioning, distance to speakers about 6 feet, maybe less?
Thanks!
So after years of listening to music through miscellaneous mid-fi solutions, I am finally thinking about dipping my toes in hi-fi audio and putting together a dedicated stereo setup. Currently I am looking at speakers, and my head is already aching from the abundance of options, so I am looking for suggestions from you guys, primarily from those of you who have had first-hand experience building a stereo in a small room like mine and achieved results they are happy with.
My room is pretty small (approx. 13’ x 10’), and I will be placing my speakers along the long wall. My listening position will be 6 feet away, give or take; plus the speakers will have to sit fairly close to the front wall. 15 inches from the back of the speaker would be nice, but if needed, I definitely I could move them out farther into the room (up to 20 inches from the back of the speaker), for listening sessions and then move them back again. There are several rows of shelves , filled with CDs and stuff, in the middle of the back wall above my head (not wall-to-wall though) - would that work as dispersion? I’m thinking of applying some room treatment behind the speakers, and on the right-hand side wall as well (if needed) - on the left hand side is a window covered with thick curtains.
Budget: under $1500 used or new.
I listen to all kinds of music, primarily rock of all eras and subgenres (blues/folk/prog/hard/art/psych/indie, etc), jazz, blues, classical, acoustic, singer-songwriters, female vocal, 80s new wave/post punk, some heavy metal. So the speakers need to be as versatile as possible. As someone who likes rock music, the bass is important, but I live in an apartment (neighbors!), so I have to find the right balance there as I don’t want to overload the room - the bass has to be there but under control and not boomy. I want as big a sound as possible in my small room without overpowering it. In general, I’m looking for engaging, non-fatiguing, dynamic sound with good midrange and tone, with enough punch to rock out when needed, nuance to play softer, more sparse types of music, and resolution so the details in fast complex passages don’t get lost or smeared. Not a fan of excessive brightness, sibilance, or harshness in the upper midrange.
I’m primarily looking at standmounts, but maybe certain smaller floorstanders would be fine? I’ve seen opinions claiming floorstanders are the way to go, regardless of the size of the room. What do you think would be preferable in my situation - apartment with neighbors, 13’x10’ room, long wall positioning, distance to speakers about 6 feet, maybe less?
Thanks!
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I am late to the party here - and so many great recommendations on wonderful sounding speakers. You could also look into powered monitors . A great choice for the room size you have are a pair of EVE Sc207 , https://www.eve-audio.de/index.php?page=SC207 . They would include the power you need and more money spent on a DAC/Pre for your Digital streaming experience. They are best with XLR’s so make sure the DAC has XLR outs. You will keep clutter to a minimum , maybe have a little extra for cabling and power filtration. Add a few cool room treatments for the sound and you will be ahead of the game. My son has a pair in our recording room. He has worked in several well known recording studios and several engineers have bought them for their home studios. They are far from fatiguing and the AMT tweeters are not too full with a very clean clear and open sound. They look cool IMO without the odd shapes many Genelec’s have. Having the choice of AMT’s , BE and soft dome tweeters as well as horns in my house I am surprised at the tweeter’s sound reproduction. The only negative may be the desire to have them 24 inches from the wall . You could adjust the EQ if they are closer or have a sound board behind. Sound boards can be a nice piece of art if done correctly. |
i have not heard lsa’s except at a couple high end shows years back, in standard issue lousy sounding hotel rooms there are a couple evidently experienced, frequent posters who recommend them... i always wonder though... when folks say ’this speaker is stunningly dynamic’ then i see it is 83 db/w/m efficiency ... i guess we are talking near field listening? or we are typically running them with a run of the mill 1000 w amps for peaks? hmmmm.... |
All speakers sound best a couple feet out from the wall. I resolve this using cheap wood dollys from Harbor Freight. Move them in/out. Helps a ton with finding best placement in the room. Go to Underwood HiFi and see his specials LSA 10 Signature, review pair $2500 discounted to $1299. Look for quality stands. EP should have stands so ask The LSA-10 Statement monitor uses a custom LSA 1” copper beryllium dome tweeter with a compact neodymium XBL2 magnet structure and a shallow waveguide to better integrate with the woofer, a single custom LSA black anodized aluminum 6.5” XBL2 woofer, and a single rear mounted 5” x 7” sub bass radiator. Other upgrades include a far more sophisticated 8th order linear phase acoustic crossover topology with state of the art crossover components and upgraded internal cable. The LSA-10 Statement has an in-room response from 32 Hz to 30 kHz +/-3dB, and a 10 ohm impedance for easy drivability. The LSA-10 Statement has a high gloss Chocolate Rosewood veneer with a magnetically attached grille. Size: 13.5" H x 14.25" D x 8.0" (baffle). Widest W dimension is 9.5" Weight 25 lbs ea Audio Bacon 2019 Product of the Year. They say: "Now I don’t say this lightly: I’m positive the LSA-10 Statement or LSA-10 Signature may be an end-game bookshelf speaker for many. It epitomizes what we as audiophiles are constantly seeking. A speaker that is dynamic, has fine tonal quality – and is faithful to the nuances and harmonics of the art. The word “truth” was recurring in my notes." Also check GR Research. He was offering a fantastic deal on some speakers. He is highly respected designer hth |
I've seen two pairs of Legacy Signature IIIs go for under $1500 (and mine cost $1600 10+ years ago). They are extremely easy to power, have huge dynamics and deep, tight bass. They also have a rear ambience retrieval tweeter. They have driver adjustments too! A bargain for a speaker that can do it all. A brand which receives universal acclaim are the Von Schweikerts. They can be purchased used as older models which fit your needs for under $1500, often under $1000 and are relatively small at that price. |
i've had good luck with a pair of thiel cs.5 minitowers. very small footprint. solid and adequate bass down to 30 cycles or below. they need their power though, no less than 100 watts per side of clean power, they are a 4 ohm speaker. i haven't heard anything more neutral and anything which images better than these speakers. they are available used for not too dear compared to how much they were when new. they are MELLOW above all, totally unlike their larger brothers which are on the hard side of neutral on all but the cleanest material. |
I have a pair of Vienna Acoustics beethovens that are smooth and will take the edge off old rock recordings played thru affordable electronics and will sound pretty good up to95 db peaks and sound really good at average levels. Bass is surprising for their size and the tweeter is better than average. Theres always the cerwyn Vega 215’s |
I don’t think anyone has mentioned Quad 12L II or one of Quad’s more recent replacement models which are also within the price Range. Lovely speakers, lovely finish, great dynamic yet unfatiguing sound. I found do with most electronics. I would suggest the II over the original 12L as the tweeter was upgraded. I’ve now moved up to floorstanders as I moved from an apartment to a house, but I have kept my quads as they are so sweet! |
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jjss49 I agree, but was trying to cut to the chase and give the OP a quick opinion. Clearly there are many speakers he can try. If he goes with Maggies first, he can easily weed out pretty much everything else. Not to say he might not end up with boxes, but fatigue was his request, and I know, as you state, properly set-up and driven Maggies do not fatigue the ears like most boxes. Its all about the music! Cheers! |
I have a similar room size for my office in our home and I have similar music tastes along with jazz, metal, country, etc. I have a set of Vienna Acoustics Schonbergs that I truly love. Not only are they gorgeous to look at, but they can be placed against the wall, (even mounted on a wall with the optional wall brackets), but I run them all day with just about every genre of music and they never get fatiguing. These can be had for under $1500 with the Subson subwoofer. If you don't need/ want the Subson, you can get these for under $1000/ pair in minty condition. They are available in the raw aluminum finish and sometimes, you can find a set in piano gloss black. They have a good amount of bass output for their size and I just love them. I had a set in black years ago that I sold and regretted. Now I have a set in silver with the Subson and it's heaven. To review, they are non-fatiguing, take up little to no room, are below budget, look fantastic and sound great. I'll probably never sell them. |
Have had good fortune with Monitor Silver 6's; lively, versatile and a consummately easy load. Many very good stand mounts have been mentioned but good stands are important: they will be fairly expensive and heavy particularly after you fill them with shot. I also am enamoured of Epos stand mounts ( the Legend 2 I think) paired with a small ML sub in a study approx. your room dimensions. Also ridiculously easy to drive. Let us know how this turns out. |
@richopp The only non-fatiguing speakers I have ever heard in my life are from Magnepan. Try whatever used model you can afford. maggies are indeed very sweet sounding when installed and driven correctly... but there are MANY fish in the ocean of listenable speakers... like anything else in life, choices have tradeoffs |
My main listening room (aka NYC bedroom...) is the same size as yours. I have read each and every response here, always curious to learn how other, more seasoned audiophiles are dealing with the “tiny room conundrum”. Many great suggestions, some I knew but plenty I don't. I am particularly entertained by @tk21 ’s post, which describes my exact (albeit previous) set-up: The tiny footprint Totem Arro floorstanders that WANT to be placed close to the back wall plus a Rel T/5i sub. It worked very well for me for +2 years, but as a gear slut on a budget, I couldn’t resist picking up a great deal on my current speakers, which also happen to be on that top ten list @tk21 linked to, at #3, the Anthony Gallo Reference 3.1 Steve Guttenberg has a video on the subject, best speakers for small rooms, and one of his suggestions is your top contender Harbeth P3ESR that is getting a lot of love from others here as well. I still have the Arros btw. If you end up interested in going that route, feel free to contact me. I really need to start getting rid of all the stuff I don’t use - or leave this shoe box of an apt… Good luck and enjoy the journey! |
I've had a pair of Dynaudio 52 SEs(the Se is important)for years and just keep on giving .Nonfatiguing, good detail, look nice, adequate Bass for a bookshelf, The only downside is that although they aren't difficult to drive a 5-watt valve won't quite do the business(They are 4 ohms). From memory they are about 87 dB. Price should let you spend a bit on other components |
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Wharfedale Lintons are standmounts, and they're going for $1,499, which is under $1,500. :) From your list, I can personally vouch for them on jazz, blues, classical, acoustic, singer-songwriters, and female vocal. Bass is plentiful but not thick, the midrange is warm, and they are nonfatiguing (with my electronics and in my room, anyway). If they're a bit big (they are 3-ways, after all), there are lots of great suggestions here for smaller standmounts. |
Proac Tablette 10. They are British brand and are known for being non-fatigue, detailed with famous BBC broadcast vocals. I listen to all genre of music from pop, electronic, jazz, country, folk, indie - these speakers have not failed me. Just like you I have a small room 14x9 and they are easily driven by most amps but love tubes. Flexible enough for near listening as well as mid sized room. Check out the various online forums reviews. You will be happy with them. |
I have no where the expertise nor experience as 99.9% of the members on this or any other forum. For what it is worth I would suggest checking out the Sonus Faber Venere 3.0, a 3 way floorstanding speaker with a forward facing reflex port. I have a pair in a small 10’x11’’ room with speakers up against the short wall and have never felt like it was too much speaker for the the room. They play smooth from top to bottom. As they have been discontinued you should be able to find a pair at or near your price point. |
mermaid_smiles Re: the Wharfedale EVO4.2, I was considering them, too, but bumped up to the 4.3, saving the cost of stands and putting it into a second midwoofer. I've turned my sub off with the 4.3s. And, if you're worried about the size, check the specs; they are small form "towers" - smaller footprint than the standmounts they replace. |
@ab2ab Grab a pair of Spendor SP2/2. Great sound and you’ll be laughing all the way back to the bank! So true!!! ... I still have my 30 year old pair of sp 2/2 preludes... they are worth what, $500 the pair these days? i thought of selling them, but they are in my second home study, driven my a lowly sonos streaming amp... when i listen to them, i just smile... like our best comfort food from our childhoods, makes one feel instantly warm fuzzy comfortable... they just sound good, elicit broad smiles, you just listen to music - no hifi bs, it is whole, natural, warm and dimensional |
I auditioned a number of speaker systems through my upper-tier C-J pre-amp, C-J amp, and Lampizator DAC tubed system and I keep coming back to the almost-crossoverless design of the Gallo Reference 3.1 (which is now discontinued). You can get a similar sound profile (fast response, huge soundstage, non-boxy, non-fatiguing output) with a pair of Gallo Strada 2 speakers combined with the Gallo TR-3 subwoofer (the latter outputting very taut, controlled bass). The physical footprint of this system is very small-room friendly while providing a full, uncolored, dynamic sound that excells in near-field listening. And the Stradas look pretty dang cool on their optional floor stands. Buying used can get you pretty close to your $1500 price point. Good luck! |
I’d agree with the Omega suggestion. Great tone and imaging and you can power them with a 2 watt tube amp or more powerful ss amp so you have flexibility. I’m demo’ing a pair of KEF LS50 Meta’s right now. They are also excellent at $1500 new. Really big improvement over the original. Really big engaging sound from these small speakers. I’m using a pair of REL T5i’s and with a sub they’re pretty amazing for $1500. However, they’re not as efficient as the Omegas and they sound better at louder volumes. The Omegas, being more sensitive, are more dynamic at lower volumes. You really can’t go wrong with either but the KEFs may want more oomph from the amp so take that into consideration. |
Lots of good choices here, Certainly I’d look at the new GoldenEar BRX and the Martin Logan 35XTi, perhaps a 2.5 floorstander with 5" drivers like a Monitor Audio Bronze or Silver 200 series, they flank you pricepoint by a couple hundred dollars each way, and will offer better dynamics and bass. The LS3/5a or clones (Harbeth P3ESR, et al) are another route, one I might have taken 20 or 30 years ago but today your budget will buy either an old pair or exactly one new speaker. Not a value. My personal choice would be KEF LS-50s, hands down. From 50Hz up, there is simply no other speaker that has the overall imaging, resolution, neutrality, versatility, technology, and, well, breeding of the LS-50. There are reasons why the LS-50 is the least expensive Class A (Restricted LF) rated speaked by Stereophile - by a factor of 10! It’s because they hold their own with the biggest and most expensive speakers out there and your room size is just about perfect for them. Down the road, when and if you want the last octave of bass, and even better dynamics, a subwoofer (REL?) will provide it. Budget for some decent stands (Pangaea seems to have a good handle on those, without charging an arm and a leg) and decent cables. The only downside, if it is one, is the LS-50s like good clean power, 50-60 watts/ch is the realistic minimum, and 100 watts a side is really the sweet spot. The amp should also be comfortable with 4 Ohm loads. That said,I have heard LS-50s driven by 40W/Channel tubes and were more than engaging, Acoustical treatment - A few fabric wrapped panels from https://acousticalsolutions.com/ are definitely the way to go. There are lots of DIY options, but most people simply don’t have the experience, tools, time, or space to build your own. They even have entire room kits (549.99 for the Small, your choice of 10 colors) that will do wonders. I’m using their panels in both my theatre/studio and living room listening areas. I like Acoustical Solutions because they are very high quality, and very reasonably priced. |
I have had a few of these setups in my day. I also live in a small NYC apartment with a 12x17 room as my listening space (and kids' play space and computer desk and lego storage, and...). I have had tremendous success with a (Velodyne) subwoofer and both Reference 3a mm de capo and Monitor Audio Gold 50. I find that at my volumes (not that high) it was even more important to have an amp that was capable of handling the speakers. The MA Gold 50s were precise and fluid, and very straightforward. I would not rate them as high as the de capos, which are just an incredibly pleasing speaker to listen to. Mine have some upgrades that make them even more so. They create a soundstage that seems like it couldn't happen in such a small space. Lastly, I also ran a pair of Zu Omen Dirty Weekends in my room and found them to also be excellent. I did not like the pairs of Wharfedales, Klipsch, and Martin Logan speakers I tried. My setup is a Unison Research Triode 25 with a Lumin D2/Sbooster. |
I got lucky with my P3ESR's. In one of my last in-person visits to Echo Audio in Portland I walked in and saw them in the demo room, asked how much (I think they were $1025?), and immediately said I'll take them. I was lucky they hadn't put them on their web site yet, or they would have been snapped up in a minute. They're the Special Edition and in almost perfect shape. If you look at the sold listings on hifishark, you'll see that they are often available for under $1500. |
@biggreg and arafiq in the past year i have typically seen later model no-issues sets of p3’s around $1600-1900 without stands here or on us am - and hence my commentary below obviously if one is patient, checks the sites very frequently and acts decisively when a very well priced pair is posted, then no doubt one can do better good luck to the op in pursuing these if that is the inclination, p3’s are excellent, with a good sub they are staggeringly good |
I picked up my P3ESRs for about $1000. You can find them used under your budget. I have a pair of Super HL5 Plus and am driving them with a 50 WPC tube integrated. My P3ESRs are driven by a 125 WPC solid state integrated. Maybe the best system I've ever heard, one of my friends has 40.2s driven by a 48 WPC Line Magnetic integrated. You don't have to use a high powered amp to get good sound out of Harbeths. |
I bought a two-year old P3esr (non-anniversary) for $1300 a couple of years ago, so I think $1500 budget is doable. I agree that they are not that difficult to drive, but they are a good investment in the sense that they scale with better equipment, at least that has been my experience thus far. If I was the OP, my plan of action might look something like this ... 1. Get a used pair of P3esr’s, and used pair of stands 2. Later on, spend another $1500 on used integrated amp -- my experience has been that they work equally well with tubes and SS, unless you’re into heavy metal or rap, in which case these are the wrong speakers to begin with. 3. Add a subwoofer -- for the OP’s room size, something like a REL T Zero will do just fine. You don’t have to buy everything upfront. Get the speakers first, and then expand as time goes on. These speakers will continue to scale with better equipment. |
@mermaid_smiles The Harbeths are really high on my list - I like a lot of what I hear about them. They do seem rather picky in terms of amplification (so darn inefficient!), so any advice on what to power them with would go a long way. Actually, no Harbeths are not super inefficient nor are they hard to drive. There is much discussion about what amplification to use with them because so many amps can work well with them, Only issue is a $1500 budget won’t get you into Harbeths and proper stands unless you go with a pretty old pair... which still sound very nice... amplification matching has not changed as all the main Harbeth models have been modernized over time but the updates are minor... The mini monitor P3 is a few db less efficient than the bigger ones but your room is small, a decent 50-60-75 wpc amp will do just fine. |
