As others have said...fun thread and hopefully useful for others as they see the paths taken
Exceeded:
Eroica LX to Benz Micro Wood SM
Isoacoustics Delos platform under turntable(due to my own ignorance of the importance of isolation)
Herbies gliders for my subwoofers
B&K Ref5 S2 preamp to Audio Research LS3B
Parasound HCA 2200ii to Audio Research Classic 120 mono blocks
NAD PP2 to Project Tube Box DS
Groovetracer Reference Subplatter for Rega RP6
Adding a middle section because there are certain improvements that are in line with our expectations
As expected:
Audio Research Classic 120s to Audio Research REF 150
Audio Research LS3B to Audio Research LS26
Audio Research LS26 to Audio Research REF3
Project Tube Box DS to Audio Research PH5
Audio Research PH5 to Audio Research PH7
Audio Research PH7 to Audio Research REF Phono 2
Platinum Audio Quattro to Wilson Audio Sophia
Disappointed:
Groovetracer record weight and counterweight
Any cable purchase
Synergistic fuses(This was on my initial system so may try again now that I have upgraded all components)
Parasound HCA 2200ii to TWO Parasound HCA 2200ii as monos
Parasound HCA 2200ii to Parasound HCA 3500
Electro Harmonix 6922 to Telefunken 6922 in ARC PH7
Platinum Audio Quattro to Focal 1038Be2
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Exceeded-
Dynavector DV20X2L to AudioTechnica ART9
Pro-ject Tube Box DS to Lehmann Black Cube SEII
NAD C356 to Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum II
KEF LS50s to Harbeth C7ES3
Home Depot bulk cable to Kimber 8PR
Kimber PBJ to Nordost Blue Heaven
Yamaha CD 300 to Marantz SA8005
Harbeth C7ES3 to Spendor D7 |
Great thread!
My system these days is strictly desktop audio w/headphones: in fact, 2 systems side-by-side on desktop (main system is headhones + amp/monitors/sub; secondary system is headphones only).
Exceeded:
1 - replacing a series of powered monitors w/a Wyred4Sound ST-500 class D amp + passive ATC SCM12 Pro monitors (wow! sound became huge & better in every way)
2 - replacing a series of delta-sigma DACs with 1 multibit (side system) and 1 NOS DAC (main system). Sound is better in nearly every way--less digital, more musical--finally digital sound worthy of comparison to analog
3 - replacing my 1.5M Billy Jeans coax from SPDIF convertor to DAC w/1.3M Oyaide silver coax. A 10X increase in cost with easily heard & appreciated sonic bump
Failed:
Many things over the years--but I’d rather not dwell on the past |
My recently-acquired SP-6B is wonderful. It replaced a Lux CL-32 that was long in service--40+ years.
As usual, Audio Research stuff is wonderful on Maggies.
Looking for a xover (EC-3) and big Audio Research amp (old one that is all tube, not a hybrid) as well.
Cheers,
Richard |
Did the Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum upgrade, from a 1 to effectively a 3. A whole new amp. More depth and detail. And the phono-stage upgrade was particularly worth it. I've taken my phono preamp offline. |
Upgraded SMc DNA-1 amplifier to G20 Ultra+. The last upgrade in 2014 was a strong improvement. The G20 Ultra upgrade delivered an amplifier that way exceeded my expectations. My Double Impact speakers are doing a happy dance! |
3 meter Madrigal HPC XLR, to just tangibly replace 1.5 meter Transparent Ultra Music Link from ML390S preamp to PassLabs X350.5.
Never did I recall such an unexpected change of the positive kind. At all!
It made me wonder, still does, if that Transparent cable was a kind of unintended inductive mismatch of sorts?!?
The improvement turned out almost, what one might call, 'radical'.
M. 🇿🇦
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Exceeded;
Freya to Allnic L- 3000- different universe
Adding English Electric 8Switch
Denafrips Terminator DAC then Terminator Plus DAC
Adding the Denafrips Iris DDC between Innous Statement and Terminator Plus
Clocking Iris with clock out from Terminator Plus
SOtM dCBL-Cat7 ethernet cables
and last but not least
Network Acoustics ENO Ethernet Filter Ag |
Exceeded:
-Room Treatments
-Configuration changes to stereo position in room
-Speaker upgrade to Tannoy FSMs
Failed:
- My hearing |
Miller Carbon "Happy to say its been several years now since anything has not exceeded expectations, and usually by quite a lot. Tekton Moabs are probably #1.."
With all the equipment you have and have gone through, it blows my mind that your Moabs impress you that much. They have got to be one of the greatest bargains out there. I dropped $15K for my Magnapan MG 20.7. I love them. But when I read that Millercarbon rates his Moabs for 5K+ that high, it makes me want to AB my speakers with them.
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For me replacing my Node 2i streamer with Sonore Optical Rendu in my main system was an eye opener. I was skeptical about the impact on sound quality (0's are 0's and 1's are 1's, right?), but I was really surprised at how much it lowered the noise floor. Also made me a believer in equipment that generally reduces noise floor.
Disappointment: Upgrading from Parasound A23 to A21 (both were sold many years ago). The difference, in my system at least, was marginal. |
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If you like the Magnepan 1.7s, maybe you should try the Magnepan 20.1s or 20.7s (with a sub of course and a powerful amp). Instead of just exceeding your expectations, they just might exceed your wildest dreams. |
Adding Audioquest power cords to my rig was a component type improvement |
Exceeded: Denon DL103R MC to Hana EL MC
Exceeded: ARC SP8 Mk2 to SP11 Mk2
Exceeded: Hafler DH220(pair) to ARC VS110
Exceeded: Monster Interconnect 2 and Powerline2 to Marrow MA4 interconnects and SP4 speaker cables respectively
Did not exceed:
Node2i internal DA to external Jolida Glass FX DAC - Note: Didn't make anything worse, just didn't improve things all that much.
Good thread! |
Awesome thread OP and thanks for sharing your experience with the freya +.
hilde made an excellent point and one I agree with. Anything thats going to be an upgrade costs 2-3 times more. I’ve made many sideways moves unfortunately.
Exceeded: GIK room treatments, upgraded power cords
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In my experience it takes about 12-15 discrete systems to get the read of a product's global performance. Even then, it is possible with any given combo of gear to have an outlier result, either positive or negative.
I am able to, on a regular basis, take a product that presents as worse in one system, and by changing the system around it, make it outperform the competing product that was purportedly superior, even without changing speakers. That is why it takes so many systems to gain insight as to the limits of performance. That does not assure it will always perform in line with expectation, but it does move it closer to that point.
As an example of how fiendishly difficult it is to peg a product's performance, just this past week I made a rig with a DAC that after many systems I would rate as third in terms of performance. Yet, with a particular combination of gear and with new speakers, it yielded a result that superseded any previous iteration of system with it - or the other DACs that were considered superior! The experience is subjectively above that of other DACs in combination with many speakers. I have found that often the speakers dictate the performance of many components, and when you change speakers, the putative ranking of the components can flip. Scary stuff for anyone who wants to know with absolute assurance the quality of a component!
Will that DAC continue to hold on to that position of prominence with these speakers? Will putting in the #1 and #2 DACs from previous experiences settle this DAC back at #3 again? I don't know; I will have to build another several systems with the other DACs to know. Finding a perceived absolute ranking is far messier than I want it to be. It would be much easier to build one or two rigs and call the shots, but the more systems that are built, the more difficult it is, even as the performance rises dramatically.
That does not mean there is no potential to rank components.
When you put in a new product and have not done many iterations (No judgment of the community on that comment), you have a very limited knowledge of the capacity of that product to perform. I say this only to educate as to how difficult it is to gain an absolute grip on performance of a product, and why there can be such divergent opinions on any given product - not to emphasize personal preferences.
So, is that DAC really better than the others? It depends. And, all these recommendations here also depend on the system. I would hope, then, that this might ameliorate some of the debates that occur when individuals arrive at very different conclusions in regard to a product.
It's just not as simple as people wish/think. :)
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Exceeded: PSVANE Acme 805 and 300b tubes, NOS 6SN7 and 6SL7 tubes to replace OE tubes on Line Magnetic LM805ia. Night and day difference. Do it before any other upgrades. _____________
Exceeded: DIY rca interconnect project using Duelund 16ga non-shielded wire. These blow away my Cardas Golden Reference cables. Best part, Duelund project $70. ____________
Exceeded: Generic Cat5e to Supra Cat8 with Etherregen. Almost no noise and black background. Better bass response, wider and taller soundstage, improved depth and image coherence.
Not worth it: Lower than “Carbon” line in Audioquest cables. Start from “Coffee” and work your way up from there.
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Exceeded, replacing a Bryston BDA-1 with a Audio Mirror Tubadour III DAC. The Bryston served me well for ~8 years however the Tubadour provides what I was looking for, tube magic with resolution.
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Exceeded: Switching from a Node2 DAC to Mytek Manhattan II DAC. Shockingly big difference in all aspects but then again price is ~10x.
Exceeded: Switching from stock power chords to Silnote Poseidon GL Reference Power Cables throughout my system. These are relatively cheap power chord upgrades as I wasn’t convinced PCs would make a discernible difference but man was I wrong.
Exceeded: Switching from Node2 streamer to dedicated network card in Mytek Manhattan. Not nearly as big of a difference as the DAC upgrade but clearly not just 1s and 0s either. |
Exceeded: My first purpose built audio room. Worth every penny.
Exceeded: Ortofon A90
Underperformed: Thiel CS4,
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Exceeded: Nobsounds springs under turntable. Must be heavy. Best $35 ever. Adds speed, structure and dimensionality to the music. See my thread on the subject.
Underperformed: graphite mat. Deadening. |
Exceeded: Herbie’s Tenderfoot footers under my integrated. Noticeably cleaner sound. |
Exceeded: Wrapping PTFE tape around the glass part of fuses. Try it.
Exceeded: Replacing the bearing in my 401 with an SPH grease bearing. Made the original sound broken.
Underperformed: fancy interconnects. Duller than the cheap OFC Belkins I use. |
Exceeded expectations:
Replaced Brick Wall with Core Power Equi=Core 1800. Revealed new life and clarity to music.
Added High Fidelity MC-0.5 power modules. 2 on amp line, one on digital line. A long break-in, now experiencing a true black background, music has a sense of smoothness and realism.
Added High Fidelity CT-2 S/PDIF coax cable. Amazing improvement over all other digital cables I've tried. Music just flows, no more thinking of music as digital.
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Exceeded: Upgraded my interconnect cables from Blue Jeans/Canare to Teo Audio GC's. Immediately superior clarity and dynamics.
Exceeded: Replaced my Klipsch RB-61 II with Martin Logan Spires. Admittedly, that is a *big* step up. |
Exceeded: Switching, years ago, from a conrad-johnson MF-2300 amplifier to a Bryston B14-SST. Wow! Everything was better: dynamics, clarity, bass, smoothness, imaging.
Exceeded: Adding a Torus RM-20 power unit to feed my power amp. Despite my skepticism, I hear clearer imaging on good recordings and less hardness on poor recordings.
Underperformed: I tried some $2200 interconnects in place of my $100 pair of Mogami/Neutrik interconnects. The fancy ones were noticeably colored in the treble, really funny sounding. I was very happy to send them back.
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Tarun, who has the British Audiophile YT channel says that unless one is going to spend considerably more on an upgrade, it likely won't improve things. I think he said 2x to 3x at least when starting with lower end gear -- e.g.don't go from a $400 speaker to a $600, go up to $800 or more. I wonder that was roughly what you did, OP? |
When I bought my KLH Nine full-range electrostats in 1992 I put my Quad 57's aside (in use since 1981). Superior bass and dynamic range, given enough amp power! |
Happy to say its been several years now since anything has not exceeded expectations, and usually by quite a lot. Tekton Moabs are probably #1, but not by much, the Herron VTPH2A is amazing, and, well just look at my system. Hard to think of anything that hasn't been at least as good as expected.
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